I know you follow the Ivy League very close . How much home court advantage is there. Are they all the same or some better than others? Thanks
Superbook
- Thread starter boilermaker
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And are the arenas as small as they look on TV? Some of the games look like they are played in a high school gym! How much of a home court advantage can you get with that? :shrug:
IMO the Ivy home court advantage is worth at least the standard 4.5 or whatever number Sagerin is using.
Yes, some of these courts don't seat more than 1500 or so; about the size of some high school gyms. But keep in mind that these are small schools. If Dartmouth gets 1500 fans for a home game, that's half the school!!!
Also, many of these courts are small but constructed so that the stands are right on top of the courts. And because the greek fraternity system is still pretty strong at many of the Ivy schools, I'd say a good percentage of the fans do some heavy partying before the games.:drinky:
Also, I think what adds to the advantage of the home team is that some of the Ivy schools aren't easy to get to and most of the Ivy schools don't have big athletic budgets so the teams travel by buses and/or vans and stay in cheap motels or dorms.
For example, I'm sure that Dartmouth left early this morning in a bus to make the 7 hour drive from Hanover, NH to Ithaca, NY for tonight's game at Cornell. If you've ever take this driven, you know that at least half of trip is spent on windy rural state routes which isn't so much fun on a bus. When you get off the bus your legs are stiff and you feel like throwing up the McDonald's you had for lunch. Not good preparation for playing a game. Add in a winter snowstorm and that 7 hour trip can take 14 hours so you have to leave plenty early.
Then after the game, Dartmouth probably stays in Cornell dorms and then drives the three hours down to NYC tomorrow for their game at Columbia.
But these are the same factors that make places like St Bonaventure a hostile environment:
1. Bandbox gyms with stands on top of the court
2. Small college towns in the middle of nowhere that are difficult to get to
Add to this that the Ivy teams sport a lot of underclassmen which probably gives the home team a greater advantage. Many players on Ivy teams drop out by their junior and senior year if they're not starting; they'd rather concentrate on their studies as they know they're know they're not going to be playing pro ball.
I hope this makes some sense.
Which teams have the greatest home court advantage IMO?
Cornell -- a tough trip to Ithaca, the Big Red need all the help that they can get to win.
Columbia -- Levien Gym is a bandbox and then there is the intimidation factor of visiting a school in Harlem. (Personal note: I live about half a mile from the campus).
Also, Harvard, Yale and Princeton seem to be much better at home.
- Jon
Yes, some of these courts don't seat more than 1500 or so; about the size of some high school gyms. But keep in mind that these are small schools. If Dartmouth gets 1500 fans for a home game, that's half the school!!!
Also, many of these courts are small but constructed so that the stands are right on top of the courts. And because the greek fraternity system is still pretty strong at many of the Ivy schools, I'd say a good percentage of the fans do some heavy partying before the games.:drinky:
Also, I think what adds to the advantage of the home team is that some of the Ivy schools aren't easy to get to and most of the Ivy schools don't have big athletic budgets so the teams travel by buses and/or vans and stay in cheap motels or dorms.
For example, I'm sure that Dartmouth left early this morning in a bus to make the 7 hour drive from Hanover, NH to Ithaca, NY for tonight's game at Cornell. If you've ever take this driven, you know that at least half of trip is spent on windy rural state routes which isn't so much fun on a bus. When you get off the bus your legs are stiff and you feel like throwing up the McDonald's you had for lunch. Not good preparation for playing a game. Add in a winter snowstorm and that 7 hour trip can take 14 hours so you have to leave plenty early.
Then after the game, Dartmouth probably stays in Cornell dorms and then drives the three hours down to NYC tomorrow for their game at Columbia.
But these are the same factors that make places like St Bonaventure a hostile environment:
1. Bandbox gyms with stands on top of the court
2. Small college towns in the middle of nowhere that are difficult to get to
Add to this that the Ivy teams sport a lot of underclassmen which probably gives the home team a greater advantage. Many players on Ivy teams drop out by their junior and senior year if they're not starting; they'd rather concentrate on their studies as they know they're know they're not going to be playing pro ball.
I hope this makes some sense.
Which teams have the greatest home court advantage IMO?
Cornell -- a tough trip to Ithaca, the Big Red need all the help that they can get to win.
Columbia -- Levien Gym is a bandbox and then there is the intimidation factor of visiting a school in Harlem. (Personal note: I live about half a mile from the campus).
Also, Harvard, Yale and Princeton seem to be much better at home.
- Jon
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Boilermaker --
I went to Colgate which is even further upstate than Cornell.
I was on the varsity running teams and used to drive one of the team vans to meets.
I remember those winters of driving down route 12B to meets in places like Vermont through a blinding snowstorm with a van full of rowdy smelly guys. I remember driving across a frozen lake in Vermont in the middle of the night past ice fisherman to get to the University of Vermont for an indoor track meet. I mean drive a van for ten hours and then try to get out and run a mile as fast as you can the next morning.
And the coach wondered why my times were always faster in home meets.
I went to Colgate which is even further upstate than Cornell.
I was on the varsity running teams and used to drive one of the team vans to meets.
I remember those winters of driving down route 12B to meets in places like Vermont through a blinding snowstorm with a van full of rowdy smelly guys. I remember driving across a frozen lake in Vermont in the middle of the night past ice fisherman to get to the University of Vermont for an indoor track meet. I mean drive a van for ten hours and then try to get out and run a mile as fast as you can the next morning.
And the coach wondered why my times were always faster in home meets.
Superbook-You're right about the long bus ride,(have you ever flown in to the Ithica "airport"?)but wrong about not staying in a decent hotel vs dorm rooms at Cornell.How am I so sure?I played three years of starting defensive tackle in the Ivy League and one of my old college roommates is currently the head football coach at Dartmouth.From Philadelphia we flew to Boston,which covered Dartmouth,Brown,and the much hated Harvard Snobs(that is still their nickname isn't it?).Everything else WAS a bus ride,Cornell being the only 6 hour one.Philly to NY,Princeton or New Haven is a SHORT bus ride.Never saw a dorm room or even a fleabag hotel on one of those trips.They always fed us at real restaurants too,not Mickey D's,not ever.The hotels we stayed in catered GREAT pregame meals,just like other schools.After college,I fed the Syracuse University Football Team their pregame meals, Friday night dinner and subsequent "snack" before bedtime for three years and they ate no differently or better than we did at Penn.Lastly,Penns Palestra is a well known bball venue,with as much homecourt advantage and tradition as most.Just ask Chuck Dailey,Rollie Massamino or Dick Harter,all former Penn coaches.You're good at capping the Ivy League,but that sob story about the conditions of the poor road Ivy athlete doesn't resemble reality. GL
edludes --
Good input. Thanks for the props on my capping.
Perhaps my version of the truth is colored by my participation in secondary sports (eg cross country and track) and at a smaller non-Ivy school.
I always thought Penn took athletics more seriously than the rest of the Ivy but maybe I'm wrong on that too.
- Jon
Good input. Thanks for the props on my capping.
Perhaps my version of the truth is colored by my participation in secondary sports (eg cross country and track) and at a smaller non-Ivy school.
I always thought Penn took athletics more seriously than the rest of the Ivy but maybe I'm wrong on that too.
- Jon
