Tell em Charles

DOGS THAT BARK

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--everytime time Krauthammer comes out with article it jumps to most read in political circles.

Found out this week for 1st time he is a paralized and confined to wheel chair.

May 22, 2009
Obama's Deeds Vindicate Bush

By Charles Krauthammer

"We were able to hold it off with George Bush. The idea that we might find ourselves fighting with the Obama administration over these powers is really stunning." -- Unnamed and dismayed human rights advocate, on legalizing indefinite detention of alleged terrorists, New York Times, May 21
WASHINGTON -- If hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue, then the flip-flops on previously denounced anti-terror measures are the homage that Barack Obama pays to George Bush. Within 125 days, Obama has adopted with only minor modifications huge swaths of the entire, allegedly lawless Bush program.

<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> <!-- OAS_AD('Block'); //--> </SCRIPT><!-- begin ZEDO for channel: Real Clear Politics ROS , publisher: Real Clear Politics , Ad Dimension: Trans - 300 x 600 --><!-- end ZEDO for channel: Real Clear Politics ROS , publisher: Real Clear Politics , Ad Dimension: Trans - 300 x 600 --><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!--// Change the name of the cookievar cookieName = 'RCPEconomist';var pos = document.cookie.indexOf(cookieName + '=');if (pos != -1) { var start = pos + cookieName.length + 1;var end = document.cookie.indexOf(";", start);if (end == -1) end = document.cookie.length;var value = document.cookie.substring(start, end);value = unescape(value); value = parseInt(value) + 1; document.cookie = cookieName + '=' + value + '; path=/; domain=.realclearpolitics.com';} else {document.cookie = cookieName + '=1; path=/; domain=.realclearpolitics.com';}--></SCRIPT>The latest flip-flop is the restoration of military tribunals. During the 2008 campaign, Obama denounced them repeatedly, calling them an "enormous failure." Obama suspended them upon his swearing in. Now they're back.
Of course, Obama will never admit in word what he's doing in deed. As in his rhetorically brilliant national-security speech on Thursday claiming to have undone Bush's moral travesties, the military commissions flip-flop is accompanied by the usual Obama three-step: (a) excoriate the Bush policy, (b) ostentatiously unveil cosmetic changes, (c) adopt the Bush policy.
Cosmetic changes such as Obama's declaration that "we will give detainees greater latitude in selecting their own counsel." Laughable. High-toned liberal law firms are climbing over each other for the frisson of representing these miscreants in court.
What about disallowing evidence received under coercive interrogation? Hardly new, notes former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy. Under the existing rules, military judges have that authority, and exercised it under the Bush administration to dismiss charges against al-Qaeda operative Mohammed al-Qahtani on precisely those grounds.
On Guantanamo, it's Obama's fellow Democrats who have suddenly discovered the wisdom of Bush's choice. In open rebellion against Obama's pledge to shut it down, the Senate voted 90 to 6 to reject appropriating a single penny until the president explains where he intends to put the inmates. Sen. James Webb, the de facto Democratic authority on national defense, wants the closing to be put on hold. And on Tuesday, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said, no Gitmo inmates on American soil -- not even in American jails.
That doesn't leave a lot of places. The home countries won't take them. Europe is recalcitrant. Saint Helena needs refurbishing. Elba didn't work out too well the first time. And Devil's Island is now a tourist destination. Gitmo is starting to look good again.
Observers of all political stripes are stunned by how much of the Bush national security agenda is being adopted by this new Democratic government. Victor Davis Hanson (National Review) offers a partial list: "The Patriot Act, wiretaps, e-mail intercepts, military tribunals, Predator drone attacks, Iraq (i.e. slowing the withdrawal), Afghanistan (i.e. the surge) -- and now Guantanamo."
Jack Goldsmith (The New Republic) adds: rendition -- turning over terrorists seized abroad to foreign countries; state secrets -- claiming them in court to quash legal proceedings on rendition and other erstwhile barbarisms; and the denial of habeas corpus -- to detainees in Afghanistan's Bagram prison, indistinguishable logically and morally from Guantanamo.
What does it all mean? Democratic hypocrisy and demagoguery? Sure, but in Washington, opportunism and cynicism are hardly news.
There is something much larger at play -- an undeniable, irresistible national interest that, in the end, beyond the cheap politics, asserts itself. The urgencies and necessities of the actual post-9/11 world, as opposed to the fanciful world of the opposition politician, present a rather narrow range of acceptable alternatives.
Among them: reviving the tradition of military tribunals, used historically by George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Winfield Scott, Abraham Lincoln, Arthur MacArthur and Franklin Roosevelt. And inventing Guantanamo -- accessible, secure, offshore and nicely symbolic (the tradition of island exile for those outside the pale of civilization is a venerable one) -- a quite brilliant choice for the placement of terrorists, some of whom, the Bush administration immediately understood, would have to be detained without trial in a war that could be endless.
The genius of democracy is that the rotation of power forces the opposition to come to its senses when it takes over. When the new guys, brought to power by popular will, then adopt the policies of the old guys, a national consensus is forged and a new legitimacy established.
That's happening before our eyes. The Bush policies in the war on terror won't have to await vindication by historians. Obama is doing it day by day. His denials mean nothing. Look at his deeds.

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BobbyBlueChip

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Two different posts within minutes. One stating that Obama has weakened the country by criminalizing the "policy decisions" of the previous administration and one stating that he's doing the same things as the Bush administration.

Interesting

Happy Memorial Day, Dogs.
 

Trench

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May 22, 2009
Obama's Deeds Vindicate Bush

By Charles Krauthammer

On Guantanamo, it's Obama's fellow Democrats who have suddenly discovered the wisdom of Bush's choice. In open rebellion against Obama's pledge to shut it down, the Senate voted 90 to 6 to reject appropriating a single penny until the president explains where he intends to put the inmates. Sen. James Webb, the de facto Democratic authority on national defense, wants the closing to be put on hold. And on Tuesday, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said, no Gitmo inmates on American soil -- not even in American jails. That doesn't leave a lot of places. The home countries won't take them. Europe is recalcitrant. Saint Helena needs refurbishing. Elba didn't work out too well the first time. And Devil's Island is now a tourist destination. Gitmo is starting to look good again.

So Krauthammer thinks the Dems have "discovered the wisdom of Bush", huh? Now that's funny. :mj07: Bill Maher oughta hire this guy to write his monologues.

It's a shame most of our politicians are such cowards. Apparently Krauthammer's unaware that the Two Rivers Detention Facility in Hardin, MT (a state of the art, maximum security facility that will hold 464 inmates) is sitting empty and the town's lobbied for the Gitmo detainees. Once again, the NIMBY's got their way though. Pretty sad.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1894373,00.html
 

jimmy the greek

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whatever ideas or concepts you can't borrow from clinton, borrow from bush lol.


for someone riding in on a platform of ''change,'' so far he is officially more bereft of original idea than any president in quite some time.


but it is early yet.
 

Trench

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Trench, why not offer up your city to build a facility?

:shrug:
If it meant the closing of Gitmo, I'd be more than happy to see the Gitmo detainees held in a facility in WI. It's a profoundly sad and pathetic commentary on this country if we've become so paralyzed by fear that we're afraid to detain 240 "suspected terrorists" on American soil.
 

Trench

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And inventing Guantanamo -- accessible, secure, offshore and nicely symbolic (the tradition of island exile for those outside the pale of civilization is a venerable one) -- a quite brilliant choice for the placement of terrorists, some of whom, the Bush administration immediately understood, would have to be detained without trial in a war that could be endless.
What a warm & fuzzy description of Gitmo Krauthammer offers. This guy oughta be a Hollywood screenwriter. He could make a feel-good story out of the holocaust.

Would anyone know where I can find Krauthammer's description of the Iraq war? If not, I'm guessing it goes something like this...

"And inventing weapons of mass destruction as a reason to declare war on Iraq -- inpiring awe while impressing the mind with a sense of grandeur (the tradition of bombing third world countries into the stone age is truly sublime) -- a quite brilliant choice for the hands-on training of our military personnel and testing grounds for our state-of-the-art weaponry, both of which, the Bush administration immediately understood, could only effectively be tested under live battle conditions in a war that could be endless."

:142smilie
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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--as Charles- said O must find some merit in Gw admin--he's been flopping like Billy Bass on every issue--

Observers of all political stripes are stunned by how much of the Bush national security agenda is being adopted by this new Democratic government. Victor Davis Hanson (National Review) offers a partial list: "The Patriot Act, wiretaps, e-mail intercepts, military tribunals, Predator drone attacks, Iraq (i.e. slowing the withdrawal), Afghanistan (i.e. the surge) -- and now Guantanamo."
Jack Goldsmith (The New Republic) adds: rendition -- turning over terrorists seized abroad to foreign countries; state secrets -- claiming them in court to quash legal proceedings on rendition and other erstwhile barbarisms; and the denial of habeas corpus -- to detainees in Afghanistan's Bagram prison, indistinguishable logically and morally from Guantanamo.
What does it all mean? Democratic hypocrisy and demagoguery? Sure, but in Washington, opportunism and cynicism are hardly news

Yep just what we need--Hard Core Muslims in our prisons to recruit/train our homegown base.

Maybe you need refresher course --
http://www.islam101.com/history/population2_usa.html

--and thats not counting illegals so Gumby's relatives not included :)

Must make you feel good having so many people identifying with your political slant ;)


[SIZE=+2]U.S. Muslim Population Table[/SIZE]

<TABLE borderColorDark=#666666 width=470 borderColorLight=#ffffff border=2><TBODY><TR><TH width=50>[SIZE=-1]Ethnic Grouping[/SIZE] </TH><TH width=50>[SIZE=-1]Population 1000 (1990)[/SIZE] </TH><TH width=70>[SIZE=-1]Percent of Total Muslim Population[/SIZE] </TH><TH width=257>[SIZE=-1]Definition of Terms[/SIZE] </TH></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]African-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]American[/SIZE]
</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]2,100[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]42.0[/SIZE] </TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]African-Americans: Those persons of African descent native to the United States of America. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]South Asians[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]1,220[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]24.4[/SIZE] </TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]South-Asians: Those of Indian/Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan, or Afghan descent now residing in the United States as citizens or permanent residents. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]Arabs[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]620[/SIZE] </TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]12.4[/SIZE]</TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]Arabs: People from Arabic-speaking countries of the Middle East and North Africa who are permanent residents or citizens of the United States. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]Africans[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]260[/SIZE] </TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]5.2[/SIZE]</TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]Africans: People from the African continent who are citizens or permanent residents of the United States [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]Iranians[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]180[/SIZE] </TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]3.6[/SIZE]</TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]Iranians: People of Persian descent, usually from Iran, who are citizens or permanent residents. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]Turks[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]120[/SIZE] </TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]2.4[/SIZE]</TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]Turkish: People of Turkish descent who are citizens ro permanent residents. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]South East Asians[/SIZE] </TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]100[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]2.0[/SIZE] </TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]South East Asians: People of Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Indochina, or the Phillippines. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]American Whites[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]80[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]1.6[/SIZE] </TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]American Whites: Those of West European descent, who are native to the United States. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]East Europeans[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]40[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]0.8[/SIZE] </TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]East Europeans: People from various regions of Eastern Europe. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]Other[/SIZE]</TD><TD align=middle width=50>[SIZE=-1]280[/SIZE] </TD><TD align=middle width=70>[SIZE=-1]5.6[/SIZE]</TD><TD width=257><!--msthemelist--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist--><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=baseline width=42>
acorbul1.gif
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="100%">[SIZE=-1]Other: All other groups. [/SIZE]<!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TH width=50>[SIZE=-1]Totals[/SIZE] </TH><TH width=50>[SIZE=-1]5,000[/SIZE] </TH><TH width=70 colSpan=2>[SIZE=-1]100[/SIZE] </TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

Trench

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Shawn, I just don't want these Savages to be given the rights of a US citizen, that's what the Liberal organizations want to accomplish.

JMO.

Poor Skulnik's unfamiliar with one of his most inalienable rights -- "Habeas corpus". The Gitmo detainees are entitled to due process and the Supreme Court ruled they are on June 12, 2008.

Detaining "suspected" Muslim extremists without due process is no different than the internment of Japanese citizens during WWII. It's really sad that so many Americans speak about the "rule of law" but are so willing to suspend it as long it doesn't apply to them.
 
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