The Average Salary of an E-5 in the Army

[Trench]

Now, about those bullets you jumped in front of....:mj07:

I'd like to hear more about the bullets our tough-talking friend jumped in front of too.

 

[Trench]

Without being more knowledgeable about the purposes and significance of each of those bases, you have no idea what number is excessive and what number isn't.

Actually, since 9/11, the number of U.S. military bases on foreign soil has ballooned to something in the neighborhood of 900 bases.

Our military empire is a jobs program for enlistees and employees of defense contractors, as well as a source of wealth generating revenue for defense contractors themselves. If you're implying that our global military empire is keeping Americans safe, I disagree. Every single act of terrorism on U.S. troops or citizens by foreign nationalists over the past 20 years was blowback for our interventionist foreign policies and our military presence on foreign soil.

 

[marine]

Actually, since 9/11, the number of U.S. military bases on foreign soil has ballooned to something in the neighborhood of 900 bases.

Our military empire is a jobs program for enlistees and employees of defense contractors, as well as a source of wealth generating revenue for defense contractors themselves. If you're implying that our global military empire is keeping Americans safe, I disagree. Every single act of terrorism on U.S. troops or citizens by foreign nationalists over the past 20 years was blowback for our interventionist foreign policies and our military presence on foreign soil.

so we never should have come to the aid of Kuwait back in the early 90's, right?

 

[marine]

My argument has not changed. Debating with you is like arguing with a kid. If you are born in an area with a high mortality rate that is out of your control, unlike you signing up with a recruiter who signs up poor kids to die. That is within your control.

As for delusional statements, that is your belief. You can keep playing your games and I will be here to correct you when you do.

I'm the one throwing real world scenarios at you and you are the one dodging it. not the other way around.

What bothers me the most, is that we are in a volunteer military. And some people are willing to take themselves and give up a little bit for the common good. And people like you, who refrain from giving up a little, which is perfectly fine and your choice to do so.. but you sit there and talk down about the people that do make that decision.

It's disgusting.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Actually, since 9/11, the number of U.S. military bases on foreign soil has ballooned to something in the neighborhood of 900 bases.

Our military empire is a jobs program for enlistees and employees of defense contractors, as well as a source of wealth generating revenue for defense contractors themselves. If you're implying that our global military empire is keeping Americans safe, I disagree. Every single act of terrorism on U.S. troops or citizens by foreign nationalists over the past 20 years was blowback for our interventionist foreign policies and our military presence on foreign soil.

I started a thread about blowback last year and it went nowhere. Which is why this argument with marine will never go anywhere. They simply think the other way even though terrorist activity against us has become common place for Americans since Iran coup of 1952.

 

[marine]

I started a thread about blowback last year and it went nowhere. Which is why this argument with marine will never go anywhere. They simply think the other way even though terrorist activity against us has become common place for Americans since Iran coup of 1952.

If you had your way we'd still be a colony of England, and most likely speaking German or Japanese.

 

[marine]

We all don't die in our late-teens and twenties. When you sign up your odds of dying during that time is simply not worth it. You are simply being used.

Police officers and firemen.

dumb idiots too? they willingly sign up to be put in harm's way.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Police officers and firemen.

dumb idiots too? they willingly sign up to be put in harm's way.

Well the odds of them dying are not nearly as high. You don't seem to want to discuss probabilities. Which is very unusual since we are on a gambling forum.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Actually, since 9/11, the number of U.S. military bases on foreign soil has ballooned to something in the neighborhood of 900 bases.

Our military empire is a jobs program for enlistees and employees of defense contractors, as well as a source of wealth generating revenue for defense contractors themselves. If you're implying that our global military empire is keeping Americans safe, I disagree. Every single act of terrorism on U.S. troops or citizens by foreign nationalists over the past 20 years was blowback for our interventionist foreign policies and our military presence on foreign soil.

RIP Chalmers Johnson

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/j5SoE9vBc6I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Trench]

so we never should have come to the aid of Kuwait back in the early 90's, right?

Iraq's invasion of Kuwait never would have happened had the U.S. not spent more than a decade supporting Hussein, selling him arms and assuring him he was our ally, an ally with whom we would not interfere.

 

[rusty]

Iraq's invasion of Kuwait never would have happened had the U.S. not spent more than a decade supporting Hussein, selling him arms and assuring him he was our ally, an ally with whom we would not interfere.

And the Boston Bruins would never of won the cup this year if a salary cap wasn't put into place in the late 90's.What's your point??

 

[marine]

Well the odds of them dying are not nearly as high. You don't seem to want to discuss probabilities. Which is very unusual since we are on a gambling forum.

says the guy spouting on and on about joining the military and having a 200-1 shot of dying right off the bat...

 

[marine]

Iraq's invasion of Kuwait never would have happened had the U.S. not spent more than a decade supporting Hussein, selling him arms and assuring him he was our ally, an ally with whom we would not interfere.

Wait, hold on. You're telling us that the United States used to be "in bed" with Saddam? And that we had civil relations with him? In fact we even supported him?

And we didn't put troops down in his home and occupy his country.

And he decided to use violence to "take back" Kuwait because he thought it was his?You mean to tell us that things aren't always
peaceful? that things sometimes turn violent in this world? That maybe force needs to be used and situations escalate?

 

[Trench]

Wait, hold on. You're telling us that the United States used to be "in bed" with Saddam? And that we had civil relations with him? In fact we even supported him?

Umm... yeah, that's what I'm saying.

If you think I'm implying that we don't need a strong defense, you're misreading me. But the D.O.D. has very little to do with the defense of this country. If it did, there would have been no need to create the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA following 9/11.

No, the D.O.D. is what it was for 160 years before it was repackaged in 1949... the Department of War. Initiating wars and defending our country are different things altogether and it's too bad we've lost sight of that in this country. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 is no longer worth the paper it was written on.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

I hope marine was kidding with that statement.

 

[marine]

Umm... yeah, that's what I'm saying.

If you think I'm implying that we don't need a strong defense, you're misreading me. But the D.O.D. has very little to do with the defense of this country. If it did, there would have been no need to create the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA following 9/11.

No, the D.O.D. is what it was for 160 years before it was repackaged in 1949... the Department of War. Initiating wars and defending our country are different things altogether and it's too bad we've lost sight of that in this country. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 is no longer worth the paper it was written on.

I wouldn't go so far as to call DHS and TSA protectors of our nation.

DHS was "created" for the purpose of bringing 15+ different existing agencies together under one reporting system to share information. Very little of DHS was "brand new". It took existing entities and rebranded and re-aligned them in a futile effort to share information easier. It's still a work in progress with everything coming together - much like the merger of large corporations.

TSA - is a showpiece to quell public fears about the United States not doing enough to protect it's borders. But, if you were to go back in time to right after 9/11 and instead of TSA agents at airports you say uniformed soldiers doing the pat downs and rummaging through your belongings... well.. you'd have certain people (TU) having his head explode at the very thought of it.


The DoD is absolutely important to the defense of this country. Just because you can not see the immediate ground level impact in front of you does not mean that it isn't happening.

It's a deterent. Just like you having a gun in your home, or carrying a big stick around. You don't always have to use it - but if people know it is there to be used, they are less likely to attack freely.

Sort of like the saying about a lock.

"A lock keeps an honest man honest"

 

[marine]

I hope marine was kidding with that statement.

And I hope you've been kidding about your entire point of view.

 

[Trench]

I wouldn't go so far as to call DHS and TSA protectors of our nation.

DHS was "created" for the purpose of bringing 15+ different existing agencies together under one reporting system to share information. Very little of DHS was "brand new". It took existing entities and rebranded and re-aligned them in a futile effort to share information easier. It's still a work in progress with everything coming together - much like the merger of large corporations.

TSA - is a showpiece to quell public fears about the United States not doing enough to protect it's borders. But, if you were to go back in time to right after 9/11 and instead of TSA agents at airports you say uniformed soldiers doing the pat downs and rummaging through your belongings... well.. you'd have certain people (TU) having his head explode at the very thought of it.


The DoD is absolutely important to the defense of this country. Just because you can not see the immediate ground level impact in front of you does not mean that it isn't happening.

It's a deterent. Just like you having a gun in your home, or carrying a big stick around. You don't always have to use it - but if people know it is there to be used, they are less likely to attack freely.

Sort of like the saying about a lock.

"A lock keeps an honest man honest"

I support big stick policy so long as it's applied to the actual defense of our country and its citizens.

If we had taken airport security and intelligence reports warning of terrorist threats seriously prior to 9/11, it never would have happened. But hindsight's 20/20 and we take those things seriously now. You can choose to believe that 900 military bases on foreign soil are necessary to keep us safe, but I don't.

You only need to open your eyes to see that countries that do not support and participate in interventionist policies in the Middle-East are not targeted by Islamic fundamentalists. Anyone who dosn't see the cause and effect relationship of those things is sleepwalking.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, the horse is out of the barn, so I'm not suggesting we dismantle the DOD. But we can spend $1 Trillion a year on "defense" (as we now define it) and it won't make U.S. citizens any less vulnerable to the threat of the lone terrorist bent on avenging the death of his family or the occupation of his country. With every example of "collateral damage" in the Middle-East, a potential terrorist is born.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

You only need to open your eyes to see that countries that do not support and participate in interventionist policies in the Middle-East are not targeted by Islamic fundamentalists. Anyone who dosn't see the cause and effect relationship of those things is sleepwalking.

Bingo.

 

[marine]

You only need to open your eyes to see that countries that do not support and participate in interventionist policies in the Middle-East are not targeted by Islamic fundamentalists. Anyone who dosn't see the cause and effect relationship of those things is sleepwalking.

With the plethora of natural resources in the Middle East, every industrial country has an interest in how things play out there. Some countries are able to be more vocal and active about it than others are though.