The continuing Conservative charade - the REAL cost of the war in Iraq

Chadman

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Fudging The Numbers, Miriam Pemberton
January 19, 2006

Miriam Pemberton is Peace and Security Editor of Foreign Policy In Focus at the Institute for Policy Studies.

The season of award shows celebrating Hollywood?s favorite fantasies of the year got underway this week.* Back here in the nation?s capital, we?re heading into budget season.*Yet, before the Bush administration kicks things off with its 2007 budget request in early February, it seems bent on proving that, in the fantasy department, it can go head-to-head with Hollywood.

Last week, while the president was spinning tall tales of steady progress in New Orleans and in Iraq, his budget office deputy was explaining away the latest rise in the federal deficit?now projected to rise over $400 billion this year.*This was just a temporary setback, the Office of Management and Budget?s Joel Kaplan said, caused mostly by unforeseen spending on Katrina.* He expressed hope that the deficit would soon be back on its ?downward trajectory,? on track to keep the president?s promise of reducing the deficit by half by 2009.

Meanwhile, the chair of the Senate Budget Committee from the president?s own party went off message when he referred to an ?expected increase? in the budget deficit.* It would be hard?outside of Hollywood and the White House?to see anything else, given the plans for yet another round of tax cuts and for victory in Iraq.

It is an extreme oddity of our budget process that military spending is computed in a way that excludes spending on the wars we are currently fighting.*In its latest ?Budget and Economic Outlook? projection for the next*10 years, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) shows what happens when you factor those costs in.*They assume the scenario the Defense Department adheres to most often: troop levels in Iraq remaining steady at about 138,000 through the coming year and then declining to about 50,000 for the foreseeable future.*If the costs of that deployment are added to the regular military budget, according to the CBO, from 2006 to 2015 the total deficit will rise from $855 billion to $1.4 trillion.*And at the end of that period, our public debt will be absorbing a whopping 32 percent of our GDP.*That?s like bringing home a $40,000 salary, and spending a third of it paying the interest on your credit card.

Or take the analysis by the nonprofit, nonpartisan Center on Budget and Strategic Assessments (CSBA). They recently examined the gap between the administration?s budget estimates of military spending included in last year?s budget, and CBO?s projections, including war spending and likely cost growth in weapons and other military programs. They also add in the interest payments on the military portion of the debt.* Without tax increases or cuts in domestic programs to offset these costs, CBSA?s Steve Kosiak says, the administration?s defense plans will leave us $920 billion deeper in the hole than the administration is willing to admit.

Add in the Iraq war, in other words, and leave the administration?s military spending plans in place, and in 10 years we?ll be staring at a deficit of $5.3 trillion.

That prospect?s not dire enough?* Now let?s bring in Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.* He and Linda Bilmes of Harvard?s Kennedy School assigned themselves the project of calculating what the war is*really* costing us.* In their paper released this month, they call the costs already appropriated by Congress explicitly for the war, and those projected by CBO for the next decade, ?the tip of a very deep iceberg.?

Looking below the surface, they find additional costs such as lifetime care for the 20 percent of those wounded in Iraq whose brain injuries will require it.* In calculating the (incalculable) value of the American lives lost, they used the standard applied in government safety regulations for a prime-age male?about $6 million?rather than the much lower standard DoD death benefit and life insurance payments to survivors. This brings the cost of American soldiers already killed in the war to about $12 billion.* Their accounting also includes the increased costs of recruiting, and the depreciation and destruction of military equipment.* Such calculations bring the war?s real costs to an estimated $1.2 trillion.

Then they incorporate other matters such as the opportunity costs of foregoing other expenditures, especially in the public sector, that could have been used to promote economic growth. They also look at the doubling in the price of oil since the war began, conservatively attributing 20 percent of this effect to the war. While acknowledging and explaining the difficulties in quantifying these macroeconomic factors, they argue that they should not be ignored, and if they are not, the war?s real cost, pursued according to the administration?s plan, will be closer to $2.2 than $1.2 trillion.

Even these sums do not tell the whole story of this war's costs. Stiglitz and Bilmes mention several*they have left out, including the planning of the war (estimated by the Congressional Research Service at $2.5 billion) and, especially, all costs borne by the Iraqis themselves.

To the extent that Congress allows itself to be drawn into the administration?s fantasy world of steady progress and deficit reduction, this congressional session might qualify for an Academy Award.* Unfortunately, these fantasies will have real consequences?for all of us and those who come after us.
 

Chadman

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If you stop and think about the sheer magnitude of these monetary amounts, and where a large part of this money went, and the connections to this administration and its supporters, it certainly lends credence to the idea that we were led to war, and continue to be led towards wars for personal reasons. To not allow for that possibility and not question this administration is not right, in my estimation. I hope that if I am presented with a situation like this in the future that I can be objective about it. A good lesson for liberals to think about moving forward. Evidently most conservatives won't even give this possibility a thought while they are currently defending the administration.
 

djv

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It's lack of money in right place that can hurt country in long run.
Take education cuts for university. This by it self can hurt. Take China who expects to graduate 300000 engineers a year for next 5 years. While we are down to less then 60000 a year. We made it harder for kids to go with tuition hikes and new pay back rules on student loans. Why the cut backs in a crucial area as education.
So we can build bridges that go no place and have elections in Iraq?
 

gardenweasel

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we can argue the iraq war until the cows come home.....

wmd`s,mass graves,trying to establish democracy in the volatile middle east.....some say it ratchets up terrorist recruitment....close to 3,000 dead.....

and on and on...

if we hadn`t gone in...and let europe and russia continue to do business with saddam...as they are with iran...i wonder?...

what would saddam have done now that iran,his main enemy in the region,is going hot?...

we see that russia and china are fighting any measure to rein in iran....thay are,as we speak,selling missile delivery systems to iran so that when they get weapons,they`ll be able to deliver them..and the europeans are good at talking about the issue....that`s all they`re good at....as iran plows on towards a nuclear weapon...

as bad as the intelligence may have been....(and i`m still not convinced that some wmd paraphenalia..mobile labs,chemical weapons etc...aren`t sitting in syria),i truly believe that every intelligence agency believed that saddam was working toward nuclear weapons...

and given the u.n.`s despicable behavior...given the utter failure of the clinton administration`s attempts at diplomacy with north korea(i`m not slamming clinton...i`m making a point about the uselessness of negotiating with miscreants)...

given saddam`s reticence to throw open his doors to inspections...

seriously...the inspections went on for well over a decade....how many useless u.n. resolutions were there?..it was a stupid game...the inspectors went where saddam let them go...or were thrown out...

and the iranians have just said,"go get f-cked"...they laugh at the u.n...

any concessions they make are an obvious play for time.....which the u.n. is happy to accomodate...


what do you do?

i believe that the invasion was mainly done to stop nuclear proliferation....and to rid the volatile middle east of the ongoing threat of saddam....

regardless of what the administration says...


saddam was the hub of the most destabilizing and dangerous regime in the middle east...

what in the world do you do?..in dealing with other despotic regimes that play by NO rules?...and are being encouraged by the france`s,the russia`s and the china`s of the world?


what would saddam have done?... would he have sat on his hands as iran went hot?....

anybody believe that?...

whether he had them or not...he`d have been furiously working on developing them today...


that`s the reason for preemption...cause,when they have them...ballgame...

if iran goes hot...and takes the straits of hormuz..or goes into kuwait as saddam did....how do we extract an unstable nuclear power?....

you think oil and gas prices are high now?...
 
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kosar

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If anything, Saddam was a balance to all the Islamfascists surrounding him. At least now they will have 'one of their own' in Iraq now.

By all accounts(post-invasion), Saddam had not had a WMD program of any sort since 1991. How the f*ck could we get it so wrong? Perhaps by 'gathering' 80% of our 'intelligence' from Chalabi and 'speedball?' Man, those are two unbiased sources.

Yes, he wanted to someday have nukes. No shit. But he couldn't because of the leash we had him on. Don't you think that in those 12 years he would have gotten *something* going if he was able to? He wasn't able to.

On North Korea: Something that always gets ignored. We did not live up to our end of the bargain whatsoever. We promised them 2 light-water reactors. THAT WAS THE DEAL! We came nowhere near comleting them in the timeframe (5 yrs I believe) that we promised. They currently sit idle around 25% completed. That is totally on Clinton, but I don't know if we should throw out a blanket statement that 'diplomacy doesn't work.' How would we know in that situation if we didn't hold up our end?

Despite all that, they still allowed inspectors in the country, seals on the plutonium rods and video cameras filming. That is until Bush lumps them in with Iraq just as we're about to invade Iraq. Good move. Presumably they have removed those rods to reprocess them. We wouldn't know for sure though.
 

gardenweasel

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i really didn`t want to get into an iraq debate....again...but....

""By all accounts(post-invasion), Saddam had not had a WMD program of any sort since 1991.""

what happened to his wmd`s...the chem and bio wmd`s?....he didn`t dismantle them in front of inspectors....as would have been very beneficial to him....

hmmmm??


what "leash" did we have on him?....

world opinion?...no

the u.n.?.....lol

the sanctions?...the europeans were ready to abandon them before the invasion...they were collapsing...and were never really implemented..as we now know...everybody cheated...it was a u.n. scam...remember?


saddam got everything...the people got nothing...

more inspections?...inspections only work when you can go where you want...not where the "inspect-ee" lets you go...

from kosar in another thread..."""I guess we're now taking Bin Ladens statements at face value."" then...

""On North Korea: Something that always gets ignored. We did not live up to our end of the bargain whatsoever. We promised them 2 light-water reactors. THAT WAS THE DEAL! We came nowhere near comleting them in the timeframe (5 yrs I believe) that we promised. They currently sit idle around 25% completed. That is totally on Clinton, but I don't know if we should throw out a blanket statement that 'diplomacy doesn't work.' How would we know in that situation if we didn't hold up our end?""

but,we are taking kim jong il`s comments at face value?...

hmmmmm??...a little contradiction there...

you really believe that any number of "light water reactors" would have changed kim jong il`s mindset?...you think one comment from bush and off come the seals?...you don`t think kim jong il was working on this all the while "madolame" albright was mucking it all up?

bush makes a comment..kim snaps his fingers and voila!!!..he has weapons?....in a matter of months?

c`mon...

that`s about as naive as it gets,bro...

that`s laughable...you just don`t get it...the idea is to use nukes to gain leverage...
 

gardenweasel

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except when you are total religious zealot.....like ahmadinnerjacket...


saddam was power hungry...ahmadinnerjacket is an ideological nut and power hungry........both dangerous.....saddam wanted control of oil and influence....to be the big boy in the middle east....iran`s guy wants to force the coming of the 12th Imam, al-Mahdi, the Imam Zaman the Lord of All Age.....translation....destroy israel and spread radical islamofascism...

""At a recent news conference, a reporter asked about the "superstition" concerning the return of the Mahdi, and was Ahmadinejad really serious about that. It's not a superstition, replied Ahamdinejad, and the return of the Mahdi is "pivotal". ...

scary stuff...read up on it..

back on point...

it`s not about nuclear energy....iran needs nuclear energy like frank perdue needs the bird flu...

n.korea needed everything...one of the poorest nations on earth...how do you get what you want?...nuclear weapons blackmail....selling weapons...etc...etc..they need the leverage of being a nuclear power...

why do you think iran is so bold?....because of the u.n. fiasco in iraq,obviously.....and the way we screwed up with n.korea...

.they know the u.s. is basically alone...... iran knows the rest of the world has no will...and the u.s....as great as it is...can`t stop nuclear proliferation all by itself all over the world...

...they are laughing at the u.n...they are even stiffing them at scheduled negotiations... not even feigning negotiation...

.this guy`s even threatened to blow a u.n. member nation off the face of the earth when he gets them(well,saddam did that,too...and would have....had the israelis not stopped him cold) ....and nobody cares...

a little chronology....it`s getting serious...


""Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met in Damascus with the leaders of 10 radical Palestinian movements including Islamic Jihad and Hamas.""...

i wonder if in five years we be having to make an argument that ahmadinnerjacket has links to terror organizations? ...

president assad of syria...""
"We support Iran's right to peaceful nuclear technology," Syrian President Bashar Assad told a news conference... "It is the right every state to own nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. Countries that object to that have not provided a convincing or logical reason," Assad said....


coincidence that ahmedinijad holds a conference with terror leaders today?.... what 'final solution' did they come up with behind closed doors?..... i have a sneaking suspicion..

""On this day, in 1942, Nazi officials held the Wannsee Conference, during which they arrived at a "final solution" that called for the extermination of Jews""....

and...""Ebrahim Sheibani told reporters that Iran has started transferring the foreign currency reserves from European banks to an undisclosed location"...

can`t freeze their assets now,can we?
very bad news,indeed...
not only about possible sanctions...but,

if they change from western currencies to gold (and we will know this in real time, looking at the currencies/gold markets) it might mean that they are preparing for armageddon scenarios.....might mean....

plus, because of oil, we are talking about a LOT of money that they can play dirty tricks with....


you know what...i`m clairvoyant...i can read the history books one hundred years from now....that is,if there are western history books a hundred years from now......

""inexplicably...... the western powers "once again" declined to use their overwhelming military and technological advantages to remove such an obvious threat"....

and the train rushes towards the inevitable crash...
 

kosar

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I have to run, but I am not taking Kim's word at face value. I am saying that 'diplomacy' might have turned out differently if we had followed through on the reactors.

Did you ever consider that Saddam may have wanted Iran/Syria..etc to think he had WMD?

Maybe he destroys them, knows (since he destroyed them) that none will be found and miscalculates that we wouldn't attack without evidence of WMD. All the while, Iran etc aren't sure about any of it.

What's 'naive' is thinking that they were able to spirit these HUGE stockpiles that were such a threat out of the country without a single speck left behind.

I'll try to respond to more of that later.
 

djv

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Bottom Line to date we found nothing. We kicked his ass so bad in 91 he got message. Other then firing at a few of our planes in no fly zone he did chit. In fact what he had left to shoot at us with was old and useless. We fought the wrong country. But Cheney was in a hurry. Pissed a lot of our countries needs away. Even money needs for security at home gone. Oh sure they can just run a bigger deficit. But if you want interest rates and gas so high they cant give you a tax break big enough to help. Or a raise in pay that is used up a year before you get it. Well just stay the course.
 

gardenweasel

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good debate,guys....

2 questions,though...

1)why didn`t saddam dismantle all his chemical and biological stockpiles in front of the inspectors?....when it would have done wonders for his p.r....and considering the inspections had been going on for years....

anybody think saddam disarmed unilaterally...and anonymously of his own volition?... and why?...why hamstring your own military power...with all the sabre rattling from the u.s....and a mortal enemy in iran right across the street..

why do it secretly?...what benefit do you derive from this action?...saddam was crazy...not stupid...

we know he had them...yet,we didn`t find them...this issue is the one that makes me question the whole"he had no wmd`s and wasn`t working toward getting them" argument..

if we couldn`t find what we know he had,what did he have that we weren`t aware of?....and why play "hide the salami' with the u.n. inspectors?...why,given all the heat,and given the supposition he had nothing,not throw open the doors ala south africa?...

if he had,he`d still be filling those mass graves and smoking cigars in his palace...


proving that saddam would have been a continuing issue is supposition...removing him rendered him a moot point.......but,given his track record,it`s a safe bet that we would have revisited the saddam issue in the near future,imo...

but,as i`ve said many times,the debate regarding the removal of saddam is a genuine and legitimate issue....it may turn out to be a major blunder..or a strategic watershed....the jury`s still out...

2)left alone...what would saddam have done to deal with iran arming itself with nuclear weapons?...

thanks..
 
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djv

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GW no question Saddam was bad guy. But when he was of use we used him in 80's. So some times your in bed with wrong guys.
I believe many of us just thought what is the rush for Iraq. Keep pressure on Afgan and complete the job there first. Witch I thought was out priority. Afgan still not settled. Still No Bin. And we still don't now what goes down with Iran. I believe if there was no oil in Iraq much like Korea. Or oil was not so important to us. We might not even be in Iraq. We have to remember we are run by oil men at this time. It has to play a part.
 

kosar

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gardenweasel said:
good debate,guys....

two questions,though...

1)why didn`t saddam dismantle all his chemical and biological stockpiles in front of the inspectors?....when it would have done wonders for his p.r....and considering the inspections had been going on for years....

anybody think saddam disarmed unilaterally...and anonymously of his own volition?... and why?...why hamstring your own military power...with all the sabre rattling from the u.s....and a mortal enemy in iran right across the street..

why do it secretly?...what benefit do you derive from this action?...saddam was crazy...not stupid...

we know he had them...yet,we didn`t find them...this issue is the one that makes me question the whole"he had no wmd`s and wasn`t working toward getting them" argument..

if we couldn`t find what we know he had,what did he have that we weren`t aware of?....and why play "hide the salami' with the u.n. inspectors?...why,given all the heat,and given the supposition he had nothing,not throw open the doors ala south africa?...

if he had,he`d still be filling those mass graves and smoking cigars in his palace...


proving that saddam would have been a continuing issue is supposition...removing him rendered him a moot point.......but,given his track record,it`s a safe bet that we would have revisited the saddam issue in the near future,imo...

but,as i`ve said many times,the debate regarding the removal of saddam is a genuine and legitimate issue....it may turn out to be a major blunder..or a strategic watershed....the jury`s still out...

2)left alone...what would saddam have done to deal with iran arming itself with nuclear weapons?...

thanks..

One possible explanation to your first question was what I posted above. That he tried to have it both ways. Iran..etc thinking they still had nerve agents/gas but the inspectors not able to find any.

The answer to question 2 is that he wouldn't have been able to do anything. Don't you think that if he could have done ANYTHING from 1991-2003, he would have? No program, no weapons, no nothing. Just a desire, like every other country in the world.

You seem to continue to ignore that all post-invasion reports(no, not from the Washington Post but from all of our intelligence agencies) that he had no program of any kind from 1991-2003.

What would possibly make you think that he could jump-start a program after seeing Iran doing it's thing, as if Saddam didn't know about it already, or at least assume? Don't you think that if Saddam could have done anything along those lines that he would have?

You asked what leash we had him on. Ummmm, isn't it obvious? No military, no wmd program, no WMD period. Isn't that enough? Doesn't that prove that he was toothless and that we had him contained? What more proof do you need, exactly?

And you and others act like there was intelligence that suggested he was driving towards a nuke program and was getting close.

That's false. Even our f*cked up intel never suggested that.

And it's my opinion that even if he still had agents from the 80's, that this was not worth it.

You yourself say that the Iraq 'thing' has rendered us impotent in dealing with Iran, yet you frantically post about Iran while still mostly defending the Iraq invasion. I know, you throw in an equivication about the was every now and then but it's mostly defending it. Makes no sense.

This is the exact, very troubling situation(Iran) that many of us envisioned would happen pre 3/03. Now we're here and people are waking up. A lot of them the same people who think Iraq was the way to go because they had elections.

I hope it was worth it. I honestly do.
 
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