The Global Warming Myth - Ocelot stands corrected

[BobbyBlueChip]

The environment isn?t an issue that?s near and dear to me, but I am for a clean environment and at the same time, I love my SUV and like being gainfully employed.

But as Chuck has been known to lie (others embellish) and doesn?t quite have the grasp of the English language you would expect from someone so learned, I highly doubt that the EPA said the following

"Environmentalist claim that the increase in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases in the earth's atmosphere are the result of human activity.
Yet this ignores the FACT that a single volcanic eruption produces more of these gases than the entire wood, coal and oil burned by human in ALL HUMAN HISTORY."

First off, usually the EPA doesn?t bash environmentalist and would never use a singular noun followed by a plural verb, but Manson consistently does both.

Manson, please provide a link where the EPA (your ?source? stated the above information), because the only thing that I found on their site was this: ?Myth: Volcanoes and the Oceans are Causing Ozone Depletion? at http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/science/volcano.html.

 

[fletcher]

Lets see 1 degree in a century. That would make it a avg of 111 out here in the summer in the year 2105 and don't think I or anyone else will be around to really worry about it's effect . Not worth wasting tons of money on hell I could and will someday move back east and that would drop my temps to deal with by about 20 degrees on avg .

Hell come live in the desert there is no ozone your already on the sun or least it feels that way.

Way to much monies being spent when the effect I would guess will not effect you or me or your children and your children's children.

My guess in 300 to 400 years there will be a climate control dome on most countries or there won't be any countries in that span of time. say it would raise at a rate of 2 degrees per century from 2005 on still would not be around to feel the effects and the effects would still not be any worse of a shock to me as it was when I moved from MD to FL then from the east and south to out west I have gone through about 20 centuries in terms of heat level.

Lets spend our money else where I say. Do you think the people in the late 1800's really gave a shit about the people in the year 2005? Well about the same as I feel about the people in the year 2105 or 2205 won't know them and won't be around even if I wanted to know them.

I think we and our families and down the line for the next 4 generations are safe from this over blown, money wasting, tax bucks I pay that could be used for something that would benefit me and any of my family over the next 4 generations of them . If they even go on that far in the ole family tree.

Call me a I person. I guess you would be right because if it does not effect me or my family ,friends or people in general while I am here on earth and like I said I will give them 4 generations of concern then I really could care less after that to be honest. Once I am gone don't think I have much to worry about 100-200 years after that so spend money on what benefits me and let the people or what ever they will be, they could be robots 200 and 300 years from now worry about their own problems

Lighten up everyone this will not effect anyone we know or will know . The only way it effects us all now is good money being wasted that could be used to feed/house and care for the poor or people who can't take care of themselves here and now. That alone should be and is more troublesome then 1 degree per century to me.

 

[RexBudler]

Lighten up everyone this will not effect anyone we know or will know . The only way it effects us all now is good money being wasted that could be used to feed/house and care for the poor or people who can't take care of themselves here and now. That alone should be and is more troublesome then 1 degree per century to me.

:clap: Very well said Eric

 

[kosar]

I do not buy the global warming 'crisis,' as i've posted before. Like Bobby Blue Chip mentioned in some thread (maybe this one) this topic is not near and dear to my heart.

However, i've seen enough evidence from both sides to make it that way(a non-issue). This seems to be a contentious issue with two people that I like and respect (Fred and Ocelot) and also important to a good friend, Smurphy.

Eric(Fletch) also makes good points and really, this whole thing is irrelevant and contradictory. There was no reason for us to join the Kyoto treaty. It's just one more money pit for the rich Americans to dump into.

I guess what I find interesting is that clowns like Manson have no problem spending 1 billion a week for an utterly worthless war in Iraq, yet rail on about spending money on any sort of environmental protections. Hypocrites like this guy are the reason we are where we are.

 

[MrChristo]

Well, I don't want to jump into the 'debate' of who/what is causing it, but I can tellyou first hand that a hole in the ozone layer above your head isn't much fun.

It's all well and good for you peope literally half a world away to talk about the one degree warming here and there, but how about some of you come down here to Tasmania or New Zealand and see how you get on.

It's undeniable, than the sun is 'hotter' here now, than anywhere else I have been. The rate of sun burn is so much quicker (than most other places given the same temperature).
You simply can't walk around in 25 dg (C) temperatures and expect not to burn...and quickly.

and, fwiw, I find fletcher's assessment of 'We're good and stuff the future generations" a bit strange...
...I mean I understand the point that we'll be dead, so who cares, but what about grand-kids etc?
I would have thought that all throughout history it has been human kinds goal to become 'stronger' and specifically to create the best possible 'environment' for future blood lines to prosper...Now here we are effectively saying we don't care about humanity down the track?
I guess it's symptomatic of our selfish, me-atitute society we live in. Which to me is a bit sad, tbh.

Whether you want to blame 'us', 'them', cows or natural swings, the FACTS are that the Earth cannot continue to handle the amount of people/waste/food usage/energy usage/rate of de-forestation.
It's a FACT that one day fossil fuels will run out.
It's a FACT that every year there are less trees and more desert.
There are less and less animal species.

I could go on, but I already sound like a world vision ad!

 

[fletcher]

MC I think you might of mis read some, I said our children, children's children's's . Which would be 4 generations from now which would be around 200 years + on avg unless someones having children at a 10.

I just think to much fuss and money being spent on this and have a list of many other things that could take care of people now and your children and grand children.

To much wasted money like i said that could help those who need help because they don't have the means of helping themselves.

Like I said in 200-300 year if world is here I really do think you would have climate controlled domes .

Call it strange I really could care less what happens 200 to 300 years from now. Like I said I am sure people in late 1800's gave any thought about the people who are here in 2005. was not talking about grandkids by the time this effects any of your or my family in a major way we will all be long gone and so will our grandkids and their grand kids.

Ozone and heat hell i just had 5 straight days in the part of the valley I live in that was over 120 everyday and has been over 110 for I think 15 days at 4:35 am the weather station they have like 40 throughout the county Clark in Vegas was 101 that was my low for the day. So I think along with a list of other things money is wasted on here in the us could go to much better use now and in the next 10-20 years. Hell like we are going to have people live on the moon our mars , the war all kinds of money is being spent where it could be spent in better ways.

The last leukemia drug on the market for children was put out in 1974 doxorubican and before that was cytarabine 1969 then 1 in 1963 and 2 in 1953. This comes right from research from Johns Hopkins Sidney Kimmel cancer center. So yes I think to much being wasted in the US on things that should have less priority IMO

And do you really care what happens 200-300 years from now honestly, I was honest and said I was not why should I when we have problems right now that could benefit much better then globe warming monies being spent on grants for it.

To much of my tax dollars are being spent or wasted on things that will never help me my children or my sisters children since i have none and their children and their children's children children's. like i said just there your looking at about 200 years and I said would give help to 4 generations counting me and that is a far as I would care really tops is 100 years i really care about he that is 1 degree.

Let my money take care of my family and their family as well as other peoples after that it is up to the people 100 years from now to foot their own bill once again IMO.

 

[MrChristo]

So yes I think to much being wasted in the US on things that should have less priority IMO
Let my money take care of my family and their family as well as other peoples after that it is up to the people 100 years from now to foot their own bill once again IMO.

Ceratinly can't argue about that at all! (Not just the US either, obviously).
But we live in a hedonistic society, and I'm as bad as everyone else! (Even tho I sound like a hippy half the time here, I swear!). There simply aren't enough people who are willing to look at the world down the track.
I also understand that necessity is the mother of invention, but does that mean we wait until there is no more fossil fuel until we find a feasible alternative? ***
Don't worry about the environment, we'll just build bio-domes. Screw the rest of life on Earth, so long as us humans are ok?

I dunno, it just paints a very bleak picture to me...and like I said, it seems to go against everything that we (as humans) have evolved to 'protect'. (ie. our genes to be passed down and our off-spring/decendants to be strong/healthy.)

When I mentioned the 'heat' and strength of the sun, I didn't mean temperature as such. It's hard to explain, but (for example) at 20 dg C here, the sun burns....more (in my experiences anyway) than anywhere else I have been.
It's not the heat, as such, but you can really feel the direct sunlight doing you harm.

*** Of course, one of the biggest ironies of modern times is that huge amount of money is "wasted" on military...but a very high % of "inventions" come directly from that source.

Either way, if there's global warming/no global warming/our fault/not our fault, I don't think anyone can deny that there is a rediculous amount of wastage, and obviously this wastage benefits no-one....Even in the here and now.

 

[smurphy]

To much wasted money like i said that could help those who need help because they don't have the means of helping themselves.

For some reason I doubt that the money would go to those causes. .....Anybody know how much spent on this research anyway? I don't know if any has been allocated by this administration. Maybe a little corner of the EPA or something. Oil companies pay for their version of the science themselves - or better yet - figure out a way to make us pay for it.

Perhaps what there's too much fuss over is the notion that much money is being spent on it in the first place. I'm sure it's just a drop in the ocean of this administration's spending.

 

[ocelot]

This admin is specifically trying to avoid spending anything on it. Anyway, how can money spent on this kind of pure science be a waste? If no money is spent, how would we know whether it is a problem or what its causes could be?

How should we decide what science we (government tax dollars) should spend money on? If you were laying out the budget for pure scientific research I believe you would be hard-pressed to find other areas of inquiry with more potential for significant impact on the lives of people, be they us personally or our future generations. I am willing to bet that our children's generation places a noticeably higher importance on this issue than our parent's generation.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Hey Manson, In case you didn't see this posted above

Manson, please provide a link where the EPA (your ?source? stated the above information), because the only thing that I found on their site was this: ?Myth: Volcanoes and the Oceans are Causing Ozone Depletion? at http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/science/volcano.html.

I didn't think that you'd answer it and hopefully it will be another month before your debating skills (sic) are taken to task again.

 

[ocelot]

Certainly Fletcher can make a case that there are many important issues of more immediate concern to our children and grandchildren but these would mostly fall into the arena of social policy, tax policy perhaps.

Now if you wish to make a case for moving funds spent on pure science into social programs that is one thing. But I don't think if you are looking purely at how to spend the science budget you would be wise to shortchange the Global warming issue.

 

[ocelot]

Bobby, of course you and I both know asking Charles for this is a waste of time because then he would be forced to show his link to some Oil company's lobbying tract.

 

[fletcher]

Yes we have to have science research, I am just sick of more overall waste and think the global warming once again IMO is over blown not that it should not be looked at but just think someone is getting grant and aid money for this who should not be and we are footing the bill in the us on the part on our government.

I hope are children and their children have better grasp then we and our parents did, I don't blame us as much as the people running our government on both sides for along time not just bubba and bush it has gone way back and it is most people on the hill IMO not just 1 party, hell I voted for bubba and voted for bush after that both times seemed to be the lesser of 2 evils poor way to cast my vote, will bubba least I felt he had a clue , thought bush did also first time and 2nd time was hoping he did but right now feel as no-one has a clue or really cares about the people they care about the feds and fat cats once again IMO.

Over all I think everyone tries to keep the earth clean and safe to live in as gen. people I do my part as much as I can but still think the US gov. is spending to much money on one thing where it could be spread out more like i said look at cancer treatments for children that would fall under science research but little has be done in terms of new meds like i posted above, need things in better priority is the main point I really want to get across and I don't think the US is working that way can't speak for other countries.

And I was for Iraq because of what I read and was lead to believe, what a fool I was call me a flip flop not at all I took what I was fed and bought into it for the most part, talk about wasting money and life, terror yes still behind and always will be behind it and what it takes money wise but this war i was a big fool and we are just flushing major major bucks down the tubes that really could be used for overall wellness of our country and others, I still support every man and women over in iraq they are doing what they were told but i have changed my mind a long time ago if it was right thing to do once more info came out and watching wasted long drawen out waste of money, yes we got rid of a person who was sick in the head whom killed many people but now in the long run i see the threat was not all is was made to be which was fed to me day by day. might be biggest waste of life and money I will ever see us spend why I am alive and like I said I was one of the fools who bought into it at first, terror yes Iraq I can be a man and say I was wrong. To bad feds can't and figure how to get the hell out, don't see it getting better, and when someone says well there was terror cells and are now in iraq yes now there is but before very few, we went the wrong way and I was part of that train due to 9-11 and buying into emontionas insted of thinking with open and clear mind almost had the mob type thinking people get in big crowds when something happens. so i will be the first to say I was wrong and a fool to ride that train. I can get off to bad we have others who are forced to stay on ,like those who are stationed there.

number 1 biggest waste of money like i said i think I will ever see in my life time, just sick of all monies wasted on many things.

 

[ocelot]

Fletch I am guilty also of buying into the war and don't mourn Saddam at all. I was foolish to believe that we would be greeted much more as liberators than we have been. I correctly predicted the military part of the campaign would be 2 weeks long but did not anticipate the level of self-destructive insanity among the Suni. Also still bewildered by the poor control of Iraqi borders keeping the foreign freaks out.

I always accepted that the war on terror would be a long and really never-ending one but did not include the war on Iraq in that category which I don' believe this Admin did either. They like to say they knew the War on Terror would be a long one when someone asks them about Iraq as they try to continually play that Iraq-link-to-911 card. But they clearly miscalculated in Iraq.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

Nice Job Kosar. No matter what the topic is in here you always somehow find a way to refer to IRAQ. I'll tell you one thing...you make a PERFECT democrat Kosar!! Never leave your party.

You can call Iraq a disaster all you want because in all actuality it doesn't matter what you think. You aren't even there in Iraq, nor have you been there. The only thing you see is what your liberal news media forces down your throat everyday. It's awful funny how all the people who complain about Iraq and think they know their shit ARENT EVEN THERE.

Iraq is only a disaster IN YOUR OPINION. Ask the soldiers WHO ARE THERE. Ask the battle commanders WHO ARE THERE. Ask the Iraqis who VOTED in a higher voter turnout percentage than we had.


Just remember what your candidate John Kerry said right before the Iraq invasion.....

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry --- Jan. 23. 2003


What a joke you democrats are. AND YOU CALL ME A HIPOCRITE. :mj07:

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

Right before we invaded Iraq, your own candidate John Kerry said that "without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein and the threat of Saddam with WMD's IS REAL".


Still want to talk about Iraq? I opened up a new thread for you.

 

[kosar]

Iraq is only a disaster IN YOUR OPINION. Ask the soldiers WHO ARE THERE. Ask the battle commanders WHO ARE THERE. Ask the Iraqis who VOTED in a higher voter turnout percentage than we had.

Here's the concept that you can't grasp, Manson. I'll type slow, but try to follow.

You will likely go on one of your insane rants in response to my next comment, but try to keep it together: Me (and the majority of the country that agrees with the likes of me) and the soldiers/commanders on the ground can both be right.

And also, so you understand, any soldier who disagrees with your sunny view is not likely to speak up. It's not good for careers.

But surely there are plenty who see progress there and on a day to day basis they see schools being built and the hospitals that we blew up being re-built. And people voting in large numbers like you mention. And when they speak of progress that they see, they are being genuine and are correct.

Progress on something like the 'insurgency' is somewhat more subjective based on each soldiers individual recent situations. But by most accounts, and even by the top generals there, the insurgent activity has not improved over the last 6 months. When those types of people admit to no progress, you can believe that it hasn't stayed the same, but gotten worse.

If you go by numbers of civilians and soldiers killed, it's really accelerated over the last 6 months.

Lastly, it's short-sighted people like you that got us into this mess. A commanders job is not to worry about what happens when we leave, which is obviously an extremely important part of this. His job is to follow orders and toe the party line. So yes, you will generally get rosy reports from the front.

We are stuck in the mud there. If you wanna hold out hope that things turn around and we leave a lasting, peafeful democracy, then I can buy that I guess. But saying that much has gone right from the very beginning is delusional.

 

[shamrock]

who gives a shit what Kerry says? Why is it that the vast majority of RETIRED MILITARY OFFICERS, (the ones who can't get busted a rank, or have their pension cut), were against Iraq?

If your so pro Iraq Charlie, I can easily point you to a recruiter, their accepting everyone with open arms these days. Of course Bush still slashing their benefits.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

DEBATING YOU LIBERALS IS LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL!!! :clap:

Who gives a shit what John Kerry said?? LOL!! Nice logic!!

You guys wanted him to run our country!!!!!!! :mj07: NICE LOGIC!!

I've seen plenty of retired military officers who said THE INVASION WAS NECESSARY.....JOHN KERRY, YOUR PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IS ONE OF THEM!!!! :clap:

Besides, why are you so concerned with "retired" military officers?? They are not there. This is a different type of war that they are not famililiar with. ASK THE TROOPS....Technology has changed since the last gulf war. Battle strategies change. What matters is the military officers WHO ARE THERE. I will take their word for it. You guys can keep living in a fantasy world all you want. No wonder you guys can't win elections. Stick with your "head in the sand" opinion and I'll stick with mine. Go ahead and say whatever you want. It seriously doesn't even matter.

 

[ocelot]

Guys, is there an ignore button. This guy is truly the most obnoxious individual I've EVER run across bar none. ALL he does is scream LIBERAL. Stuck in the 70's he is, just like his disgusting namesake.

You cannot talk to this whack-job as he is completely irrational. Now to go look for that ignore feature.