The Health Care Industry: Protectionism the Free Traders Love

Chadman

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The Health Care Industry: Protectionism the Free Traders Love
Monday 18 May 2009
by: Dean Baker, t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Suppose that people in the United States paid twice as much for our cars as people in Canada, Germany, and every other wealthy country. Economists would no doubt be pointing out the enormous amount of waste in the US auto industry. They would insist that we both take advantage of the lower cost cars available elsewhere and take steps to make our own industry more efficient.

For some reason, economists do not have the same attitude towards health care. Most seem little bothered by the fact that we spend more than twice as much per person as people in other countries, with no obvious benefit in terms of health care outcomes. This lack of concern is especially striking since health care is a far larger share of the US economy than autos, comprising 17 percent of total output, as compared to about 3 percent for autos.

The excess health care spending comes to more than $1.2 trillion a year or the equivalent of more than $16,000 for a family of four. Paying too much for health care has the same economic impact as a health care tax. In effect, we have a health care waste tax that is about 10 percent larger than the projected federal revenue from the personal and corporate income tax combined. In short, this is real money.

However, the enormous waste in the US health care sector does not arouse anywhere near as much concern as items like the "buy America" provision in the stimulus package. This provision, which applies to a small fraction of the recently passed stimulus package, was the topic of a front-page article in The Washington Post. The article warned that this protectionist provision could lead to the unraveling of the world trade system.

While features of health care can make trade in health care services more difficult than trade in autos, it is possible for the barriers to be bridged. If the self-proclaimed "free traders," who dominate the economics profession and policy debates, actually were free traders, they would be pushing hard to allow people in the United States to benefit from international trade in medical services in the same way that US consumers have benefited from low cost imports of cars and clothes.

There are several obvious paths through which the United States could gain by freer trade in health care. First, we could construct trade deals that simplify the process through which foreigners can train to meet US standards for becoming doctors, dentists, and other highly paid medical specialists.

The point would be to set up procedures through which students in countries like Mexico, China, and India could train to meet our standards, and then would have the same ability to practice in the United States as US trained doctors. This could be easily implemented and offer large gains to both countries, especially if the US paid a fee to compensate for the medical training offered to foreigners, so that two to three doctors could be trained for every one that practiced in the United States.

An even simpler route for gaining from trade would be to allow Medicare beneficiaries in the United States to buy into the much cheaper health care systems in other countries. The government could split the savings with the beneficiaries, allowing them to pocket thousands of dollars a year, while saving the government the same amount. The receiving country could even get a premium over its costs in order to give it an incentive to take part in the program.

Finally, the government could try to standardize rules around the rapidly growing industry of medical tourism. Every year, tens of thousands of patients travel to Thailand, India, and other countries to have major medical procedures performed at prices that are often less than one-tenth as much as those in the United States. The savings can easily offset the cost of travel for the patient and several family members. If facilities were regulated and clear rules established for legal liability, then more patients would be able to take advantage of the potential cost saving.

However, the free traders are not interested in promoting free trade in health care. They would rather just tell us that there is nothing that can be done about exploding health care costs in the United States. This might have something to do with the fact that the primary beneficiaries of protectionism in health care are doctors and dentists, not autoworkers and steel workers (and the drug and medical supply industry).

Economists and other self-proclaimed free traders are anxious to use trade to reduce the income of manufacturing workers; they are very happy to have protection for highly paid professionals. After all, their parents, siblings and children can be doctors and dentists. They are unlikely to be autoworkers and steelworkers.

So, we are stuck with a hopelessly bloated health care system that most of the economists and pundits say cannot be fixed. Insofar as this is a true statement, it is because they and their wealthy friends do not want it to be fixed. It really is that simple.
 

layinwood

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If clear rules for legal liability where established then the prices for procedures in these other countries wouldn't be so low.

I think a lot of people look at it the wrong way. Typically the doc fees aren't what are so high, it's the hospital fees or surgery center fees. If you just had to pay the physician most procedures would be fairly cheap. I've got my father in laws knee replacement EOB sitting next to me, I'll have to say the doc was pretty cheap considering what he did. Now the room and bed my father in law was in must have been a hell of a lot nicer than what I remember because it's sky high.
 

ELVIS

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chadman, my wife earns an above average income as a pharmacist. and i think she deserves every damn dime she makes.

she went to school for 6 yrs and we chalked up 70k in debt during the process, there were no freebies for us. neither of our sets of parents contributed money to the cause and not one is a doctor.

i worked my ass off to help her through school and i would like to see some rewards as well.

btw, we pay a professional tax to the state of TN and our student loan interest is not tax deductible because we make too much money. there are a number of other deductions that are capped for us as well - one being a limit on dependent deductions......

and no, we don't earn anywhere near 250k - the libs magical number.

i could go on all night, but i won't.
 

The Sponge

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chadman, my wife earns an above average income as a pharmacist. and i think she deserves every damn dime she makes.

she went to school for 6 yrs and we chalked up 70k in debt during the process, there were no freebies for us. neither of our sets of parents contributed money to the cause and not one is a doctor.

i worked my ass off to help her through school and i would like to see some rewards as well.

btw, we pay a professional tax to the state of TN and our student loan interest is not tax deductible because we make too much money. there are a number of other deductions that are capped for us as well - one being a limit on dependent deductions......

and no, we don't earn anywhere near 250k - the libs magical number.

i could go on all night, but i won't.

Let me ask u something and im not being a wise guy here. why should i have to be punished because ur wife paid a lot for her schooling? Shouldn't this grip be taken up with the School?
 

layinwood

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Sponge, come on man. That is pretty weak. Why do we always want to place blame on someone. What, do you want schools to provide free education? The professors shouldn't make anything? People who are willing to try and achieve more should be paid the same as someone who doesn't give a crap?

For someome who goes thru that much school, a pharmacist really doesn't make that much.
 

The Sponge

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Sponge, come on man. That is pretty weak. Why do we always want to place blame on someone. What, do you want schools to provide free education? The professors shouldn't make anything? People who are willing to try and achieve more should be paid the same as someone who doesn't give a crap?

For someome who goes thru that much school, a pharmacist really doesn't make that much.

Lay i was just asking the question for my own reasoning and wanted to hear an answer. It is not really how i feel but i think it is an interesting question. Trust me i know how much it cost. I hear about it every day. My girl has aa short temper and i want to drop that line on her one of these days but thought i would check the reaction here first :mj07:
 

The Sponge

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Recently i thought i would roll the dice and drop my health care for awhile. Well i got a kidney stone. I tried to pass the sucker for over 12 hours. I couldn't take it anymore and went to the emergency room. Well after two hours my bills came to over ten grand. First i like to ask where is this free health care all the righties always talk about? Now my girl is in the medical field and when i said this is nice, only 10 grand for a little under 2 hours. Her response was how much she pays in schooling. Now im wondering why do i have to pay ten grand because she is paying a lot for schooling. Just a thought.
 

StevieD

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Recently i thought i would roll the dice and drop my health care for awhile. Well i got a kidney stone. I tried to pass the sucker for over 12 hours. I couldn't take it anymore and went to the emergency room. Well after two hours my bills came to over ten grand. First i like to ask where is this free health care all the righties always talk about? Now my girl is in the medical field and when i said this is nice, only 10 grand for a little under 2 hours. Her response was how much she pays in schooling. Now im wondering why do i have to pay ten grand because she is paying a lot for schooling. Just a thought.
They expect us to pay for their whole schooling on every visit!!!!
Just kidding but the costs are way out of hand. Of course the insurance industry loves this because they get to charge more for insurance. If this situation is not straightened out we will never get out of this financial mess we are in.
 

layinwood

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Recently i thought i would roll the dice and drop my health care for awhile. Well i got a kidney stone. I tried to pass the sucker for over 12 hours. I couldn't take it anymore and went to the emergency room. Well after two hours my bills came to over ten grand. First i like to ask where is this free health care all the righties always talk about? Now my girl is in the medical field and when i said this is nice, only 10 grand for a little under 2 hours. Her response was how much she pays in schooling. Now im wondering why do i have to pay ten grand because she is paying a lot for schooling. Just a thought.

And I'm willing to bet that of the 10k most of it is from the hospital itself for your room and supplies. Once you get your EOB you should be able to bargain that down with a cash price.

Also, free healthcare is there if you don't have money. Do you have any money? If you don't then it can all be taken care of. My wife went to the ER and then ICU for a week around 6 years ago. I had just started my company after losing everything we owned a year before, we had nothing and no insurance. 45k in bills was taken care of because we couldn't pay. I'm thinking that's the free healthcare I hear about.
 

Chadman

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Elvis, I'm sorry if my post offended you - it wasn't intended to rip any individuals or positions specifically, just more of an overall view which I agree with that economies of scale and negotiation could bring about a reduced cost for many areas of health care. I think it's great that pharmacists, doctors, nurses, etc., make a lot of money - they should for doing what they do. They earned their way there, for sure, and they should be compensated for it. I understand completely the costs people don't think about with student loans, etc., my wife is a partner in a law firm in a smaller town, and we're still paying off those debts, which are quite high. I know she does a great job for her clients and the cities she does work for, and I think she earns what she makes - I don't think all attorneys do, but she is a good example of why they are important for a lot of people.

I'm just for examining ways to start to reign in costs for individuals - many who can't afford to maintain insurance any more. The costs are crazy, and have gone up an incredible amount for a long time now - with nobody to oversee any of it, or control any of it. Not so much with the personnel, but the organizations that some try to protect for financial interests.
 

The Sponge

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And I'm willing to bet that of the 10k most of it is from the hospital itself for your room and supplies. Once you get your EOB you should be able to bargain that down with a cash price.

Also, free healthcare is there if you don't have money. Do you have any money? If you don't then it can all be taken care of. My wife went to the ER and then ICU for a week around 6 years ago. I had just started my company after losing everything we owned a year before, we had nothing and no insurance. 45k in bills was taken care of because we couldn't pay. I'm thinking that's the free healthcare I hear about.

I didn't get a room just some makeshift curtain and a bed. So in order to get the free healthcare DTB is away's talking about i need to be broke? Lovely. Well the hospital did cut me a big break and then i got hit with another bill for the emergency room. These people are not bending that well but it is still up in the air. The list on my hospital bill is so long i can't figure out how they did so much in such a short amount of time. :shrug: I could tape the top of the sheet on an eight foot ceiling and the other end will hit the floor.
 

The Sponge

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And let me point out how much of a scam these colleges are getting to be. Right from the gitgo the teacher tells the class she never gives an A. 35 kids start the class and only 7 finish. Most of these kids lose this money. Now i ask is this a nice little way to make some money for the school? Giving kids 3 days of work to finish in one? Good luck having a job and trying to pass this class. Computers are the worst thing invented that a lazy teacher can get their hands on. All these test online where they don't have to lift a finger.
 

StevieD

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My wife was having chest pains one day. So her work drove her to the hospital and she went emergency. The Emergency doctor was great. She told us that every looked good but they were going to hold her over night for observation. While we were waiting for them to get the room ready or whatever they do my wifes primary care doctor came in. This is exactly what happened. She looked at the chart at the chart at the end of the bed and while looking said. 'Hi Lynne. What happened?"
My wife said she had some chest pains.
Her doctor said "I can see that. Well, they are going to watch you all night. You are in good hands."
With that she left.
A few weeks after getting out we get a statement from the insurance company. That doctors visit in the ER. That she wasn't even called into but just showed up. $475!!!!
 

StevieD

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How the fingers get pointed at the doctors and not the insurance companies is beyond me

I lay the blame on all involved including the hospitals. For somerthing to be so far out of whack it has to be scewed up from top to bottom.
 

The Sponge

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My wife was having chest pains one day. So her work drove her to the hospital and she went emergency. The Emergency doctor was great. She told us that every looked good but they were going to hold her over night for observation. While we were waiting for them to get the room ready or whatever they do my wifes primary care doctor came in. This is exactly what happened. She looked at the chart at the chart at the end of the bed and while looking said. 'Hi Lynne. What happened?"
My wife said she had some chest pains.
Her doctor said "I can see that. Well, they are going to watch you all night. You are in good hands."
With that she left.
A few weeks after getting out we get a statement from the insurance company. That doctors visit in the ER. That she wasn't even called into but just showed up. $475!!!!

i had that happen to me :mj07: Doc calls in his other buddy a doc to give his opinion. His bud looks at the chart and bang 500 more. I think that was to take care of a quarter of a school credit back then. Then again like Saint say's if it wasn't for these rotten Insurance companies a lot of this kind of stuff probably wouldn't happen.
 

layinwood

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Sponge and Stevie, in that situation the docs are at fault in my eyes. I know why they're doing that and it's not to screw you or make you pay. They see it as something that's billable to the insurance company so they stick it in there. If it's not paid by the insurance company because you don't have insurance one of two things happen. Either you pay it or it doesn't get paid and they write it off as a loss against their profit. Everyone is trying to work the system from all angles and in the end we get screwed.
 

saint

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i had that happen to me :mj07: Doc calls in his other buddy a doc to give his opinion. His bud looks at the chart and bang 500 more. I think that was to take care of a quarter of a school credit back then. Then again like Saint say's if it wasn't for these rotten Insurance companies a lot of this kind of stuff probably wouldn't happen.

good work dropping your insurance and getting burnt by it. karma is a bitch dumbass
 

StevieD

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Sponge and Stevie, in that situation the docs are at fault in my eyes. I know why they're doing that and it's not to screw you or make you pay. They see it as something that's billable to the insurance company so they stick it in there. If it's not paid by the insurance company because you don't have insurance one of two things happen. Either you pay it or it doesn't get paid and they write it off as a loss against their profit. Everyone is trying to work the system from all angles and in the end we get screwed.

Without a doubt. Here is one for you. I have severe sleep apnea. I have had my CPAP machine for years. So long that it started to rot out. So I call my insurance to see if I can get a new machine. They tell me I have to have another sleep study done.
I show up at the Sleep Center with my old machine. I figure they want me to sleep with that to see if it is working or not.
Oh no, They have me sleep without any machine. To prove I have Sleep Apnea....something we have known for seven years.
After the study they okayed me for a new machine because the other one was so old!!!!
Cost of the study. $700. I don't think the machine costs half of that.
 

saint

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Without a doubt. Here is one for you. I have severe sleep apnea. I have had my CPAP machine for years. So long that it started to rot out. So I call my insurance to see if I can get a new machine. They tell me I have to have another sleep study done.
I show up at the Sleep Center with my old machine. I figure they want me to sleep with that to see if it is working or not.
Oh no, They have me sleep without any machine. To prove I have Sleep Apnea....something we have known for seven years.
After the study they okayed me for a new machine because the other one was so old!!!!
Cost of the study. $700. I don't think the machine costs half of that.

how much do you weigh?
 
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