It was Karma :shrug: By the way I ever tell the story about the dentist who offered to bartar some dental work for an addition on his house :mj07: I had to take a pass on that job. Don't worry Saint im not labeling all dentist as cheap asses. Had a few Doc's and Lawyers try to break me down for primitive wages while i was glancing at the sign on their desk that said "300 dollars an hour".
The Health Care Industry: Protectionism the Free Traders Love
- Thread starter Chadman
- Start date
It was Karma :shrug: By the way I ever tell the story about the dentist who offered to bartar some dental work for an addition on his house :mj07: I had to take a pass on that job. Don't worry Saint im not labeling all dentist as cheap asses. Had a few Doc's and Lawyers try to break me down for primitive wages while i was glancing at the sign on their desk that said "300 dollars an hour".
Why? I am overweight.
I have not been able to lose weight since I had my gall baldder taken out. The doctor botched the job and I was bleeding internally. I flat lined in recovery. Had transfusion and spent 5 days in intensive care.
I did not sue the doctor but I should have as he later lost his liicense for butchering three more patients. Had I sued I possibly could have saved them some pain.
Oh yes, for bothing the job the cost to my insurance was in the hundreds of thousands.
not offended by anyone at all over this. i get to listen to a co worker of mine tell me how over paid my wife is everyday.
sadly, because we live in a free market everything is a gouge.
how much markup is in a coca cola ?
i work for a tool manufacturer and our profit goal on all items is 48-53 %. to me this is terrible and i don't think that the customer's are getting a fair value - however, i'm not quitting either.
i keep costs down as much as possible, but there is only so much i can do. btw, i fill out price adj sheets to keep their most popular items lower on a regular basis (good samaritan):00hour
i think that the legal system and frivolous law suits are crap as well - but who decides here.
my other problem is that the price of oil is down considerably, yet gas is going up at the pump AGAIN ! where is my new president when i need him at the pump.....:sadwave:
all j/k aside, giv regulation of the industry will hurt the profits, lower the overall quality of care, and be abused like every other gov run project (TN care has been bankrupt for years).
medicine is very over priced, but so is every thing else.
obviously, i'm not old yet, nor am i in bad health - so i am not affected like my dad is (his retirement from his job barely covers his insurance premiums......)
i don't think it is right, but i'm not looking for the wife to get her pay cut in half by a gov official that sets rates, etc.
and i'm moving out of my quite 3100 sq ft house outside of memphis , but back to Memphis where i can live in my old 1100sq ft house with loud music being played until the early am hours. and houses being broken into once every 1-2 months......
sadly, because we live in a free market everything is a gouge.
how much markup is in a coca cola ?
i work for a tool manufacturer and our profit goal on all items is 48-53 %. to me this is terrible and i don't think that the customer's are getting a fair value - however, i'm not quitting either.
i keep costs down as much as possible, but there is only so much i can do. btw, i fill out price adj sheets to keep their most popular items lower on a regular basis (good samaritan):00hour
i think that the legal system and frivolous law suits are crap as well - but who decides here.
my other problem is that the price of oil is down considerably, yet gas is going up at the pump AGAIN ! where is my new president when i need him at the pump.....:sadwave:
all j/k aside, giv regulation of the industry will hurt the profits, lower the overall quality of care, and be abused like every other gov run project (TN care has been bankrupt for years).
medicine is very over priced, but so is every thing else.
obviously, i'm not old yet, nor am i in bad health - so i am not affected like my dad is (his retirement from his job barely covers his insurance premiums......)
i don't think it is right, but i'm not looking for the wife to get her pay cut in half by a gov official that sets rates, etc.
and i'm moving out of my quite 3100 sq ft house outside of memphis , but back to Memphis where i can live in my old 1100sq ft house with loud music being played until the early am hours. and houses being broken into once every 1-2 months......
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If he botched the case as you say then the cost to your insurance isn't what you exaggerate..that was the cost to his malpractice insurance not yours.
70% of obese people have apnea. I'm not commenting on your situation...I don't know you. People bitch and whine about costs when a lot of these healthcare increases are due to the fact that we as a nation are fat lazy bastards. Scores of sleep studies and cpap machines could be avoided if people would just get off the couch and lose some weight. We are such a lazy society it's amazing.
interesting thread with good contributions by everybody except the sponge :142smilie j/k!
lots of people are mistaken when they gripe about doctors making so much money. They work hard long hours, have constant stress, are always worried about litigious patients, work weekends and holidays, have their phone ring/beeper go off at all hours of the night, etc. They aren't working a 9 to 5 the great majority of the time.
Pharmacists are making a killing now, but that is supply and demand. There isn't a glut of them out there, so they get paid handsomely. They also generate a ton of revenue, and even where they don't, they generate other revenues for the store (I'm talking retail pharmacy here). Sadly, in hospitals, pharmacy techs do a whole lot of the work. Most are competent, but they routinely make mistakes stocking. The way the system is setup, the Pharmacists are all getting "Pharm Ds" or doctorate degrees which takes a ton of education, but the techs who can have as little as a high school degree have a huge amount of hands on with the meds. Pharmacists also in my experience are not doing even a shadow of the patient education that they used to. They're having to spend too much time on the computer and phone with the patient's prescription insurance. Really sad!
Dentists are everywhere and routinely over-treat (or at least they try). That's my gripe against them as a whole. They are highly trained with very expensive educations, and they do make a mint as well with good hours. It's not an easy job, and there's no way I could stand and bend over all day during procedures like they do. Good hours, yes, easy, absolutely not.
Nurses are paid ok I suppose, and even though benefits are going to hell for most nurses due to cutbacks, I expect the wages to keep rising ahead of most professions. The other thing going on in nursing now is the attempt by many, many hospitals to get rid of all the LPNs/LVNs and go to strictly RNs. That's just going to make the RNs pay go up and make it harder to find help while relegating LPNs to chitty nursing home jobs. It's a huge mistake as there are tons of good solid LPNs out there who are just as if not more competent than a lot of RNs. There's also a push to have all RNs get a bachelor's degree instead of just an associate's degree. Being a nurse isn't as fun as it used to be either, and it's just going to get worse. We don't have all the Depression/WWII generation around anymore, and I can see a huge difference. When the people my age get old and need a lot of health care, heaven help all the nurses and health care workers. kurby
Hospital and procedure costs are ridiculous. The way things are marked up is absolutely criminal, and I hate it. The Sponge mentioned his ER trip and kidney stone. I bet he was charged at least $50 for every morphine injection they gave him, and that drug is dirt cheap.
The nursing home industry is horrid. If you have a loved one in a nursing home, make sure somebody visits one or more times EVERY DAY, and be proactive. Don't bitch about petty chit, but if they are wet/dirty, not turned, checked on infrequently every time you go, make sure you tell somebody, and don't hesitate to go up the ladder all the way to the corporate level if it doesn't get better.
Saint is also spot-on about our society as a whole being fat and lazy. I've always contended that the obese are far more of a burden to health-care than the smokers.
lots of people are mistaken when they gripe about doctors making so much money. They work hard long hours, have constant stress, are always worried about litigious patients, work weekends and holidays, have their phone ring/beeper go off at all hours of the night, etc. They aren't working a 9 to 5 the great majority of the time.
Pharmacists are making a killing now, but that is supply and demand. There isn't a glut of them out there, so they get paid handsomely. They also generate a ton of revenue, and even where they don't, they generate other revenues for the store (I'm talking retail pharmacy here). Sadly, in hospitals, pharmacy techs do a whole lot of the work. Most are competent, but they routinely make mistakes stocking. The way the system is setup, the Pharmacists are all getting "Pharm Ds" or doctorate degrees which takes a ton of education, but the techs who can have as little as a high school degree have a huge amount of hands on with the meds. Pharmacists also in my experience are not doing even a shadow of the patient education that they used to. They're having to spend too much time on the computer and phone with the patient's prescription insurance. Really sad!
Dentists are everywhere and routinely over-treat (or at least they try). That's my gripe against them as a whole. They are highly trained with very expensive educations, and they do make a mint as well with good hours. It's not an easy job, and there's no way I could stand and bend over all day during procedures like they do. Good hours, yes, easy, absolutely not.
Nurses are paid ok I suppose, and even though benefits are going to hell for most nurses due to cutbacks, I expect the wages to keep rising ahead of most professions. The other thing going on in nursing now is the attempt by many, many hospitals to get rid of all the LPNs/LVNs and go to strictly RNs. That's just going to make the RNs pay go up and make it harder to find help while relegating LPNs to chitty nursing home jobs. It's a huge mistake as there are tons of good solid LPNs out there who are just as if not more competent than a lot of RNs. There's also a push to have all RNs get a bachelor's degree instead of just an associate's degree. Being a nurse isn't as fun as it used to be either, and it's just going to get worse. We don't have all the Depression/WWII generation around anymore, and I can see a huge difference. When the people my age get old and need a lot of health care, heaven help all the nurses and health care workers. kurby
Hospital and procedure costs are ridiculous. The way things are marked up is absolutely criminal, and I hate it. The Sponge mentioned his ER trip and kidney stone. I bet he was charged at least $50 for every morphine injection they gave him, and that drug is dirt cheap.
The nursing home industry is horrid. If you have a loved one in a nursing home, make sure somebody visits one or more times EVERY DAY, and be proactive. Don't bitch about petty chit, but if they are wet/dirty, not turned, checked on infrequently every time you go, make sure you tell somebody, and don't hesitate to go up the ladder all the way to the corporate level if it doesn't get better.
Saint is also spot-on about our society as a whole being fat and lazy. I've always contended that the obese are far more of a burden to health-care than the smokers.
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Six, I agree with you on the LVNs. It's not just hospitals getting rid of LVNs, doc offices are doing it as well. Most are either using MAs or RNs now. I have very few clients that want LVNs and when one does ask me to find an LVN it's very hard. Once an LVN starts doing home health it's hard for them to go back into an office because typically the money isn't near as good.
I did not sue the doctor so I do not how his malpractice insurance paid for my hospital stay.
As far as obese people being a strain on our health system we die early! You skinny pricks live forever and in the end get cancer or something and linger on and on. Us fat Fvcks get it over with quick and easy with a heart attack.
Yes I have heard about it. I know you are running the latest fad to pick on the fatties for all the health care woes but I was only half joking. The so called healthy guys are a burden on health care for a longer time than the Obese. And in the end the healthy guys get sick and linger on. All I am saying is that I do not think the difference in cost, over the course of a life, is much different. I could be wrong but I don't think by much.
If this is true why would there not be extra cost put on the obese(there may be some that I am unaware of) like there is smokers. Seems to me a new insurance company that set rates based on weight and tobacco would make a killing with the few number of claims filed as overweight and smokers would go somewhere else with lower rates:shrug:
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Wow ! :scared All of this trashing of the rotund and those who smoke, but not one mention of the largest burden on todays healthcare problem.
The illegal aliens, I don't care where they are from, if they haven't paid their admission price, don't jam up the emergency rooms and urgent care centers !
The quickest way to clear ER's and Urgent Care Centers out is, is to show up wearing a Border Patrol Uniform. Also works in laundry rooms :00hour
The illegal aliens, I don't care where they are from, if they haven't paid their admission price, don't jam up the emergency rooms and urgent care centers !
The quickest way to clear ER's and Urgent Care Centers out is, is to show up wearing a Border Patrol Uniform. Also works in laundry rooms :00hour
There is rating factor--in fact a smoker in good health is standard rating--people over weight limit regardless of in pefect health--are a unisurable.
Kind of a pet peeve of mine--as have several people that are just stocky and not obese get rated or declined. Have got some through by taking photo and sending to underwriter.
My biggest pet peeve on insurance industry is their rating people on claim experience after policy in force.
If a person waits till they are in bad health to take out insurance-I have no problem on rating.
--but if they take it out when healthy and go years without claim--then have large claim I think it is larceny for Ins co to jack their premiums due to claim--they should receive only standard rating trend increase. That would be #1 on my agenda of healthcare reform. It totally deeats the very purpose of ins IMO
So your telling me that overweight people cant get insured:shrug: What type do you sell? Do yall do credit checks or is that just car insurance? Last question is if you get put on a blood pressure medication does your premiums go up when and if the ins company finds out?
BTW I agree that is crappy to jack someones rates who has a history of no claims.
Me too but it's the basis of the industry. My mom had skin cancer 20 years ago because she's fair skinned and I pay higher premiums from it.
Regarding the BP...if it's well-controlled you can still get the ultra preferred rates for life insurance. Not sure about health insurance though-
For decades I've read study after study showing that getting folks into obesity, smoking, sedentary living, risky hobbies, etc all help reduce overall nationwide healthcare costs 'cause these folks die off earlier. Therefore don't have to spend the huge bucks required for lingering old-people end of life care. Insurance companies, depending on thier individual game plan, it may raise costs--But those companies generally create extra charges whenever they can anyway, however they can get away from it.
but overall, the only preventive medical strategy that might arguably reduce nationwide health care costs is childhood immunization programs. But even there, the data supporting it is very weak.
Here's a recent restatement of this, as concerns smoking:
"...smokers die some 10 years earlier than nonsmokers, according to the CDC, and those premature deaths provide a savings to Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs."
"Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents."
and another, as concerns obesity:
"Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures."
and part of this so-called "obesity epidemic" is based on the widespread use of the breathtakingly stupid BMI index.
as for illegal immigrants, the burden they place on the health care industry as a whole is so trivial, it is hardly worth talking about.
"The current policy discourse that undocumented immigrants are a burden on the public because they overuse public resources is not borne out with data, for either primary care or emergency department care," said Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA's School of Public Health and the study's lead author. "In fact, they seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs."
as for the Truthout article--every free marketer I know loaths the lack of free trade and market incentives in the health care industry. Milton Friedman, for example, famously attacked the doctor's union and it's support of monopolistic and restrictive economic practices for years...but then, this is an article from "straw man" Truthout...
but overall, the only preventive medical strategy that might arguably reduce nationwide health care costs is childhood immunization programs. But even there, the data supporting it is very weak.
Here's a recent restatement of this, as concerns smoking:
"...smokers die some 10 years earlier than nonsmokers, according to the CDC, and those premature deaths provide a savings to Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs."
"Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents."
and another, as concerns obesity:
"Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures."
and part of this so-called "obesity epidemic" is based on the widespread use of the breathtakingly stupid BMI index.
as for illegal immigrants, the burden they place on the health care industry as a whole is so trivial, it is hardly worth talking about.
"The current policy discourse that undocumented immigrants are a burden on the public because they overuse public resources is not borne out with data, for either primary care or emergency department care," said Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA's School of Public Health and the study's lead author. "In fact, they seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs."
as for the Truthout article--every free marketer I know loaths the lack of free trade and market incentives in the health care industry. Milton Friedman, for example, famously attacked the doctor's union and it's support of monopolistic and restrictive economic practices for years...but then, this is an article from "straw man" Truthout...
Isn't this the point of Chadman's article? It doesn't have to be this expensive. 10k for a kidney stone? I don't care if it is the schooling of the people that work there, the room, or the supplies. 10k is too damn much money and it doesn't add up.
He Stevie: I got a woman that works for me that was having chest pains, so I had her sent to the company nurse who then had an ambulance called to take her to the hospital. Since the ambulance call wasn't pre-approved, she had to pay for the ride herself (not the insurance company). Came in around $750. WTF? She brought me the bill because she was so confused and we took it to HR and then we got the talk about having to have things like this pre-arranged before the insurance company will pay. Who pre-arranges emergency ambulance rides?????
UGA There are no credit checks on health plans I am aware of--large life policies do get them--basically because on 2 year suicide contestibilty clause--and they also do check on drivers license (looking for DUI's)
per high blood pressure:
On life applications underwriters do not consider person with high blood but very minimal risk-provided they take their medication--however if Dr reports show their readings and they do not take medication-that is another story. It is quite common for people with high blood pressure that is under control to get select rating for life insurance --providing there is no family history of cancer or heart disease or other health risks.
Medical insurance is different story--not so much on person having high blood pressure--but the cost of drug they take. Where a generic drug may cost them only few dollars and non formulary name brand may cost company $150 or more. They are not going to cover person which they will be out $200 + a month in drugs for $180 a month premium.
On weight- here is table for one company for male 6ft tall and in good health,
under 217lbs preferred
218-248 preferred table 2
249-257 standard 1
258-265 standard 2
266-295 modified
over 295 decline
Hope this answers your questions
I don't know about any fads. It's just my experience that obesity leads to far more problems than smoking. Would I rather take care of a patient with end stage COPD (caused by smoking) who is 110 pounds, is on oxygen at 4 liters p/m, can use a bedside commode, can turn himself, can feed himself, can dress himself, and is oriented, OR a 330 pound stroke victim (arguably caused by morbid obesity; it's at the least a contributing factor) who is incontinent, can't turn unless 2-3 people are doing the work, can't feed himself, can't dress himself, is confused, and can't talk?
because smokers are unfairly penalized compared to other high risk groups. It's acceptable to be obese. It is unacceptable to be a smoker. It really doesn't jive. I'm not meaning to be an obese basher. I have lots of obese friends, and being obese in itself just like smoking has nothing to do with how good or bad the person is. Just talking burden to healthcare, however, imo and from my experience, the obese are a far greater burden.
those tables are a lot nicer than the stupid BMI tables which are an absolute joke. :nono:
