The hypocrisies by the liberals is just astounding.

[yyz]

Chad/YYZ

Would like your opinions on issue since you both have a hat in the ring on issue.

Lets raise your pay grade to governor and your in walker's shoes.

How do you fight the out of control spending/debt (or pass it on might be another option).

From what I've read he has three options--

Have employees pay increased portion of benefits

Lay off 5,500 state employees

Raise taxes

What is your call--if you have another solution would be glad to hear it.

Scare tactics are a strong hand. He's using them ad lib, though.

First, everyone assumes because talks always drag out, that the unions want, want, want. Well, to an extent, they do.....but they are willing to concede, as well.

Walker told the Doyle administration straight out: Stop negotiating with them until I take office on January 3rd. Doyle did. Walker instantly crushed the Interstate rail development that was in place, so Doyle told those guys they might as well stop working, too.

$800,000,000 in Fed money gone in a blink, because of what it "would cost Wisconsin in the long run". Not to mention the current and future jobs. (But, I imagine the future jobs would have been government, so we get that, don't we?)

Back to the union:

At NO TIME since he has been in office, has Mr Walker made any attempt to talk with the unions. They have tried, but his only statements, through the media, have been, "The state is broke. We have nothing to bargain with."

The unions even said they would give him what he asked for....but then he comes in with I want the bargaining rights gone.

Again.....nothing formal from him. All done through the media.


First, if you want to trim our benefits to "bring them more in line" with the private sector......ok. Say it just like that, and say it at NEGOTIATIONS!

But don't tell us it's to help balance the budget!

You don't balance the budget on the backs of a small segment of you population. EVERYONE needs to chip into that fund, wouldn't you agree? Isn't it our problem, as a state?

So, you're saying everyone else has suffered but us, and now it's our turn. We'll, even the score with these cuts, and let's go from there.

Now......on to your question: My "solution".


According to Walker, we need a generous portion of this money to keep Badger Care humming along at full steam. (Badger Care, for the most part, is the welfare health care.)

WRONG! These people are NEVER asked to tighten their belts, and I wonder why? In fact they got a huge "raise" last time around of 12%. (I believe)

They can take a cut, right along with everyone else.

Walker made a name for himself by "not raising taxes". Well, in effect......he just raised 175,000 peoples' taxes.

Suck up your pride, and make a decision that might drop your batting average below 1.000, but still get the team that winning run home on a scarafice, huh?

We have 5.5 million vehicles licensed in Wisonsin. Charge an extra $100 per vehicle per year. That comes down to $8.30 a vehicle per month, and everyone can come up with that.

You put a sunset on that law that ends in three years. That way, it is over before your term ends, and you can "save face" a little, if you will, by repealing a tax that you "hated to burden my fellow citizens with".

In that 3 years, the state of Wisconsin would have realized 1.65 BILLION dollars in revenue.

I'll let Scott Walker and the buisnessmen he's cooking up with figure out the rest.

Hey, I didn't go the college, either........but I think it would work.

:shrug:

 

[GENO]

HEY yyz,

"We have 5.5 million vehicles licensed in Wisonsin. Charge an extra $100 per vehicle per year. That comes down to $8.30 a vehicle per month, and everyone can come up with that."

sounds like a quick fix and a good one too with one or two problems, Multi-car, two working parents raising a family that earn low wagers will struggle with this ......

And

Seniors that are living on SS only got no raises the last 2 or 3 years, with food and gasoline they are stretched to the limit already. I know I have a Father and Mother in Law that is feeling this pain.

I guess there is always a down side to everything, but that is as good of revenue source as I can think of.

My Father tells of Model T's for sale in the Depression because the owner could not afford tags or gasoline

BTW is the BMV service still treachously slow up there, the locals told me to plan on my entire lunch hour getting my tags, and they were right:mj07:

 

[yyz]

HEY yyz,

"We have 5.5 million vehicles licensed in Wisonsin. Charge an extra $100 per vehicle per year. That comes down to $8.30 a vehicle per month, and everyone can come up with that."

sounds like a quick fix and a good one too with one or two problems, Multi-car, two working parents raising a family that earn low wagers will struggle with this ......

They fit into the Badger Care program, most likely get free lunch at school, and other assistance.

I have no doubt there would be a decrease in license renewals, and an increase in cardboad box cut-outs readling "L.A.F", on the backs of heaps.

And

Seniors that are living on SS only got no raises the last 2 or 3 years, with food and gasoline they are stretched to the limit already. I know I have a Father and Mother in Law that is feeling this pain.

Well, if I were governor....I would have someone on my board advising me of stuff like this when I make my decisions. We could maybe adopt a plan allowing for Srs on a fixed income to do volunteer work instead?

I guess there is always a down side to everything, but that is as good of revenue source as I can think of.

My Father tells of Model T's for sale in the Depression because the owner could not afford tags or gasoline

BTW is the BMV service still treachously slow up there, the locals told me to plan on my entire lunch hour getting my tags, and they were right:mj07:

The DMV up here has Hispanics in it every time I go in. Every time.

I never see any of them working anywhere, though?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Scare tactics are a strong hand. He's using them ad lib, though.

First, everyone assumes because talks always drag out, that the unions want, want, want. Well, to an extent, they do.....but they are willing to concede, as well.

Walker told the Doyle administration straight out: Stop negotiating with them until I take office on January 3rd. Doyle did. Walker instantly crushed the Interstate rail development that was in place, so Doyle told those guys they might as well stop working, too.

$800,000,000 in Fed money gone in a blink, because of what it "would cost Wisconsin in the long run". Not to mention the current and future jobs. (But, I imagine the future jobs would have been government, so we get that, don't we?)

Back to the union:

At NO TIME since he has been in office, has Mr Walker made any attempt to talk with the unions. They have tried, but his only statements, through the media, have been, "The state is broke. We have nothing to bargain with."

The unions even said they would give him what he asked for....but then he comes in with I want the bargaining rights gone.

Again.....nothing formal from him. All done through the media.


First, if you want to trim our benefits to "bring them more in line" with the private sector......ok. Say it just like that, and say it at NEGOTIATIONS!

But don't tell us it's to help balance the budget!

You don't balance the budget on the backs of a small segment of you population. EVERYONE needs to chip into that fund, wouldn't you agree? Isn't it our problem, as a state?

So, you're saying everyone else has suffered but us, and now it's our turn. We'll, even the score with these cuts, and let's go from there.

Now......on to your question: My "solution".


According to Walker, we need a generous portion of this money to keep Badger Care humming along at full steam. (Badger Care, for the most part, is the welfare health care.)

WRONG! These people are NEVER asked to tighten their belts, and I wonder why? In fact they got a huge "raise" last time around of 12%. (I believe)

They can take a cut, right along with everyone else.

Walker made a name for himself by "not raising taxes". Well, in effect......he just raised 175,000 peoples' taxes.

Suck up your pride, and make a decision that might drop your batting average below 1.000, but still get the team that winning run home on a scarafice, huh?

We have 5.5 million vehicles licensed in Wisonsin. Charge an extra $100 per vehicle per year. That comes down to $8.30 a vehicle per month, and everyone can come up with that.

You put a sunset on that law that ends in three years. That way, it is over before your term ends, and you can "save face" a little, if you will, by repealing a tax that you "hated to burden my fellow citizens with".

In that 3 years, the state of Wisconsin would have realized 1.65 BILLION dollars in revenue.

I'll let Scott Walker and the buisnessmen he's cooking up with figure out the rest.

Hey, I didn't go the college, either........but I think it would work.

:shrug:

I see you have basically same solution --find way to raise taxes on public to expand gov and increase gov employee pay/benefits.

on the collective bargaining--

Why FDR Warned Against Public Unions

February 19, 2011, 09:38 PM
James Sherk is the Bradley fellow in labor policy at the Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation.


?It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.?

The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don?t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this ?unthinkable and intolerable.?

Government collective bargaining means voters do not have the final say on public policy. Instead their elected representatives must negotiate spending and policy decisions with unions. That is not exactly democratic ? a fact that unions once recognized

======================

more--

In Wisconsin, Protesting the Greed... of the Public?
- Joe Klein, Time

When I covered local government in New York 30 years ago, the school janitors (then paid a robust $60,000 plus per year) had negotiated the "right" to mop the cafeteria floors only once a week. And we all know about the near-impossibility of getting criminal and morally questionable--to say nothing of less than competent--teachers fired. The negotiation of such contracts were acts of collusion rather than of mediation. Government officials were, in effect, bribing their most activist constituents.
Public employees unions are an interesting hybrid.

Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed...of the public?




​

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Wayne: Stating that government unions strike against the taxpaying public is a bit of a stretch, don'tcha think?

Using this type of logic, I bet you could draw all sorts of conclusions against almost anyone. Perhaps we should all just accept whatever we're given and shut the hell up.....but that's not exactly the American way.

I've had different experiences with unions. One place had one and you barely noticed them, the other place it seemed like two competing companies were working under the same roof.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Garry I don't remotely think its a bit of a stretch--
When teachers--policemen-firemen-trashmen --you name it don't show up--who pays the price.

I think when they have better pay and benefits now than public in general--they will have a tough fight on their hands trying for collective bargaining powers to enable them to dig deeper in publics pocket to expand that gap.

 

[Duff Miver]

Garry I don't remotely think its a bit of a stretch--
When teachers--policemen-firemen-trashmen --you name it don't show up--who pays the price.

I think when they have better pay and benefits now than public in general--they will have a tough fight on their hands trying for collective bargaining powers to enable them to dig deeper in publics pocket to expand that gap.

Sure thing, doggie. A starting teacher with an MA or MS degree @ $25K is overpaid.

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[The Sponge]

Sure thing, doggie. A starting teacher with an MA or MS degree @ $25K is overpaid.

What color is the sky in your world?

Duff we know how this goes. When these union haters constantly hear daily on how bad unions are from their puppet masters, they believe what they hear. Over and over again guys like Rush and Hannity have been saying it and like true puppets they run with it because their minds can be shaped like playdo. Remember these are the same assholes who defended these god awful wars and till this day, will defend them even tho a complete fool can see what happen was awful. All predicted before hand by people who knew what these con-artist were up to. U would think guys like Dogs would someday reach the age of reason but i won't hold my breath. I can't even believe i felt bad for this guy when he got caught by the internet police. These type of shallow thinkers are the true cancer to this country. Why in the world would i feel bad for a guy who seems to love to see people in misery because he is to stupid to realize he is being played like a fool while causing this kind of stuff.

 

[yyz]

I see you have basically same solution --find way to raise taxes on public to expand gov and increase gov employee pay/benefits.

I'm pretty sure my scenario took pay and benefits AWAY from the public employees, to the exact extent Walker is? My stoyline started after we already took our hit.


So, you're saying everyone else has suffered but us, and now it's our turn. We'll even the score with these cuts, and let's go from there.

So our money would already be in the kitty, and there would be no raise in pay/benifits that you suggest.


Breaking the unions is where he will get MUCH more money. They will now determine the work hours, manipulate the OT, shut down posts at will, etc, to save every penny they can.

Still, it will not even come close to what he needs. (The cuts he just demanded total about 8% of the 300M he needs this year, and then we can look at the 2.2 Billion shortfall over the next two!)

Yet, amazingly........this "broke" state that all of it's citizens have all of the sudden decided to say, "I've had enough!!!! It's gone on too long!!!!"................This sate?

We were 5.4 billion in the hole On November 20, 2008

Some way....some how.......that deficit seems to have been trimmed a buck or two over that short course of time, and none of these morons must know that! (Including most of you out there)

SOMETHING must have been working!!!!!!

So, please don't come with the "sky is falling" routine on my doorstep, when it isn't, and it wasn't.


This state will be worse off for the middle class for Walker's efforts, and none of those dipshits screamming "Go Scott" can see the whip cracking down on their backs.

Take away collective bargaining across the land, and it won't be long before everyone who has a job is working for $10hr, and saying, "I'm just happy I have a job......."

Once the government completely detroys your middle class, you will have the permanent ruling class.

Happy days.

:sadwave:

 

[yyz]

Garry I don't remotely think its a bit of a stretch--
When teachers--policemen-firemen-trashmen --you name it don't show up--who pays the price.

I think when they have better pay and benefits now than public in general--they will have a tough fight on their hands trying for collective bargaining powers to enable them to dig deeper in publics pocket to expand that gap.

It would seem that's not accurate. (But, then again......I would guess you could find what you want to back "your side") That's why these arguments are pointless.


http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_d4093848-3c92-11e0-ac18-001cc4c03286.html

 

[Trench]

In Wisconsin, Protesting the Greed... of the Public?
- Joe Klein, Time

Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed...of the public?

I think I can help Mr. Klein out here...

Public employee unions are NO DIFFERENT than private sector employee unions. Puppet politicians like Scott Walker represent the vary same powerful corporate interests that industrial unions fought in the past (and still do).

Dogs, if you and Mr. Klein don't know who's interests Scott Walker and other corporate mouthpieces like him represent, then it would seem that neither of you know the first damn thing about corporate influence on politics in America. But then, in your case, I doubt there's anyone who frequents this political forum that didn't already know that.

 

[yyz]

I think I can help Mr. Klein out here...

Public employee unions are NO DIFFERENT than private sector employee unions. Puppet politicians like Scott Walker represent the interests of the vary same powerful corporate interests that industrial unions fought in the past (and still do).

Dogs, if you don't know who's interests Scott Walker and other corporate mouthpieces like him represent, then it would seem that neither you, nor Joe Klein, know the first damn thing about corporate influence on politics in America. But then, I doubt there's anyone who frequents this political forum that didn't already know that.

Dogs might not want to hear things like the Koch Bros stuffing $11B in their pocket this year because thing are going so good for them. (Well.....I'm sure he wants to hear that part.)

What these fucking "public sector" boobs partying in the streets don't most likely know, is that these two are shit-canning 158 workers at their Georgia-Pacific plant in Green Bay.

Business is booming, but new machinery makes these workers obsolete, so buh-buy!

Now, Dogs will tell you, "That's the American way!"

And I suppose he's right. Make as much as you can. But when no one has a toilet to shit in anymore, they won't need to buy your asswipe, either. Then what?

The old saying goes, "You can sheer a sheep many times. You skin it only once."

At some point, Mags, et al......... you will understand this is an attack on YOU, as well. Get 'em in a party mood, baby!

Pick pockets have a field day at Mardi Gras, too!

It will be just that much easier for guys like these two billionaires to keep crushing you, once they eliminate public unions first.

 

[Chadman]

So that would be option 1
--Continue with what he's now doing?

-as far as being political or economical I'd expect you can find state budget deficit on google.

however would agree --stopping the expansion of gov and debt--appeared to be "we the peoples" biggy in past election --so is certainly trying to abide by campaign pledge. It certainly is diff path to --"Era of Responsibilty"

Sorry, I don't understand what you typed. Continue what he's now doing? What does that mean, as far as what I said?

 

[pd1]

I'm pretty sure my scenario took pay and benefits AWAY from the public employees, to the exact extent Walker is? My stoyline started after we already took our hit.


So, you're saying everyone else has suffered but us, and now it's our turn. We'll even the score with these cuts, and let's go from there.

So our money would already be in the kitty, and there would be no raise in pay/benifits that you suggest.


Breaking the unions is where he will get MUCH more money. They will now determine the work hours, manipulate the OT, shut down posts at will, etc, to save every penny they can.

Still, it will not even come close to what he needs. (The cuts he just demanded total about 8% of the 300M he needs this year, and then we can look at the 2.2 Billion shortfall over the next two!)

Yet, amazingly........this "broke" state that all of it's citizens have all of the sudden decided to say, "I've had enough!!!! It's gone on too long!!!!"................This sate?

We were 5.4 billion in the hole On November 20, 2008

Some way....some how.......that deficit seems to have been trimmed a buck or two over that short course of time, and none of these morons must know that! (Including most of you out there)

SOMETHING must have been working!!!!!!

So, please don't come with the "sky is falling" routine on my doorstep, when it isn't, and it wasn't.


This state will be worse off for the middle class for Walker's efforts, and none of those dipshits screamming "Go Scott" can see the whip cracking down on their backs.

Take away collective bargaining across the land, and it won't be long before everyone who has a job is working for $10hr, and saying, "I'm just happy I have a job......."

Once the government completely detroys your middle class, you will have the permanent ruling class.

Happy days.

:sadwave:

That sheds an entirely different light on the situation.

Bust a little bit more of the middle class. You should really give everyone making over a million a year a bigger tax break, that way maybe they will give you a part time job so you can put food on the table.

Most of them work so hard for their money.

 

[Mags]

I'm pretty sure my scenario took pay and benefits AWAY from the public employees, to the exact extent Walker is? My stoyline started after we already took our hit.


So, you're saying everyone else has suffered but us, and now it's our turn. We'll even the score with these cuts, and let's go from there.

So our money would already be in the kitty, and there would be no raise in pay/benifits that you suggest.


Breaking the unions is where he will get MUCH more money. They will now determine the work hours, manipulate the OT, shut down posts at will, etc, to save every penny they can.

Still, it will not even come close to what he needs. (The cuts he just demanded total about 8% of the 300M he needs this year, and then we can look at the 2.2 Billion shortfall over the next two!)

Yet, amazingly........this "broke" state that all of it's citizens have all of the sudden decided to say, "I've had enough!!!! It's gone on too long!!!!"................This sate?

We were 5.4 billion in the hole On November 20, 2008

Some way....some how.......that deficit seems to have been trimmed a buck or two over that short course of time, and none of these morons must know that! (Including most of you out there)

SOMETHING must have been working!!!!!!

So, please don't come with the "sky is falling" routine on my doorstep, when it isn't, and it wasn't.


This state will be worse off for the middle class for Walker's efforts, and none of those dipshits screamming "Go Scott" can see the whip cracking down on their backs.

Take away collective bargaining across the land, and it won't be long before everyone who has a job is working for $10hr, and saying, "I'm just happy I have a job......."

Once the government completely detroys your middle class, you will have the permanent ruling class.

Happy days.

:sadwave:

YYZ, please do your research. The reason the deficit went from 5.4B to 3.6B of whatever the exact numbers were, was due to a ONE time $2B gift (called "The Stimulus" from the Federal Government (which of course, they didn't have to give as they just borrowed the money and just drove up the national debt instead).

The dems just keep playing the shell game of moving money around and keep getting higher debts. They are afraid to make any real changes - hence, Obama's budget again this year that had increases in it instead of cutting like he should.

Remember, Walker's budget is coming out next week - and if local governments don't have the ability to make appropriate changes to their budgets (by able to make health care changes like any other employer), they will be unable to balance their budget - as there ain't no money to give them from the state.

I guess we could scrap Walker's idea and just lay off a shit load of people. Not my choice, but certainly one of the 2 options will happen. We are already one of the highest taxed states in the nation, and have been for years. So it is not a revenue issue.

And the crap about tax revenues being down because of the economy is absolutely true. But if famliies income goes down, they spend less. That is what Walker is trying to do - and he will succeed.

My guess is that history books will revere him a hero - the one guy that got our country's finances on track.

It is clear that Obama doesn't have the leadership ability or balls to make it happen. So it has to start at the state level - where most of the laws should be made anyway. The Federal Governmetn should just get out of the way. They are a bloated unnessary expense that does not understand state issues in the least (AZ and WI come to mind). Obama clearly doesn't and I can't think of any other recent president that did either (and that includes Bushie)

 

[Trench]

My guess is that history books will revere him a hero - the one guy that got our country's finances on track.

So now you're projecting how history will remember a guy after only 7 weeks in office?

You're a funny guy, Mags (and I'm not being sarcastic).

SOLIDARITY WISCONSIN!!!

 

[yyz]

But if famliies income goes down, they spend less.

And when 175,000 families lose 8-10% of their income this year, and who know HOW MUCH when he brings his next surprise to the table in 5 months.........That won't have an effect on the local economies?

I'll say this again:


If you take .5-1% of someone's income, they are more likely to continue their same spending habits than if you trim 8-10%

I know that's how it will work for me. Local businesses around here will be crimped because of this. If everyone got pinched a small bit, that would most likely not happen.

But, most people don't want that, so we have this, and that's fine.

I'll still manage. But there will be local places laying off workers, and maybe shutting the doors over time.

Nice cycle we have coming.


The rich get richer, and you get fucked.

 

[Mags]

And when 175,000 families lose 8-10% of their income this year, and who know HOW MUCH when he brings his next surprise to the table in 5 months.........That won't have an effect on the local economies?

I'll say this again:


If you take .5-1% of someone's income, they are more likely to continue their same spending habits than if you trim 8-10%

I know that's how it will work for me. Local businesses around here will be crimped because of this. If everyone got pinched a small bit, that would most likely not happen.

But, most people don't want that, so we have this, and that's fine.

I'll still manage. But there will be local places laying off workers, and maybe shutting the doors over time.

Nice cycle we have coming.


The rich get richer, and you get fucked.

I do understand your points YYZ. I took my 50% hit from Obamacare. Lot of other people I know lost their jobs because of it. It was advertised as a way to save everyone money on health care costs (which it is not doing), but the reality is, premiums still go up and many people lost 100% of their income because of it.

I guess, in a lot of ways, this is the same thing. A small part of the population gets hammered (such as the situation you are in), to save a big part of the population just a tiny bit.

Wish we could undo both of these bills... maybe we still can?!?!?

 

[Roger Baltrey]

I do understand your points YYZ. I took my 50% hit from Obamacare. Lot of other people I know lost their jobs because of it. It was advertised as a way to save everyone money on health care costs (which it is not doing), but the reality is, premiums still go up and many people lost 100% of their income because of it.

I guess, in a lot of ways, this is the same thing. A small part of the population gets hammered (such as the situation you are in), to save a big part of the population just a tiny bit.

Wish we could undo both of these bills... maybe we still can?!?!?

How did you take a 50% hit on Obamacare? And who lost 100% of thier income. I'm not for his program but I work in Medical and haven't seen his take place anywhere.

 

[hedgehog]

Scott Walker for PRESIDENT :00hour :00hour