The rich get richer, of course.

[Chadman]

October 5, 2005
At the Very Top, a Surge in Income in '03
By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

After falling for two years, the share of income going to the richest slice of Americans - the top tenth of 1 percent - grew significantly in 2003 while the share going to 99 percent of Americans fell, tax data released yesterday showed.

At the same time, the effective income tax rates paid by the top tenth of 1 percent fell sharply, declining at more than 10 times the rate reduction for middle-class taxpayers, the new report, by the Internal Revenue Service, showed.

Overall incomes rose by 2.7 percent in 2003, compared with the previous year, the I.R.S. said. A quarter of this increase went to the top tenth of 1 percent, the 129,000 taxpayers with reported incomes of $1.3 million or more, an analysis of the data showed.

Prof. Edward N. Wolff, a New York University economist who studies wealth, contended that the data could be tied to stock market gains in 2003 and a sharp rise in the pay of chief executives while most workers' pay was barely keeping up with inflation.

The top 10th of 1 percent paid almost 23.6 percent of their reported income in income taxes in 2003, down from just under 27 percent in 2002. That is a decline of 3.4 percentage points. For taxpayers in the bottom 80 percent, the effective tax rates fall by three-tenths of a percentage point or less.

Only for those Americans in the top 1 percent, the nearly 1.3 million taxpayers who made at least $327,000, did incomes increase significantly more in 2003 than the rate of inflation. And this increase was concentrated within the top tenth of 1 percent. The income of that group grew by 9.5 percent in 2003 over the previous year while the rest of the top 1 percent had a gain of 3.7 percent.

For the bottom 99 percent of taxpayers, income rose by slightly less than 2 percent, which was below the inflation rate of 2.3 percent.

The top 1 percent of taxpayers received almost 17.5 percent of all income and paid a third of all income taxes in 2003, the I.R.S. found. The top tenth of 1 percent received 7.57 percent of reported income and paid more than 15.3 percent of all income taxes.

The share of all reported income reported by the top 1 percent of taxpayers increased by 0.57 percentage point, compared with 2002. Nearly all of this increase - 0.47 percentage point - went to the top tenth of 1 percent.

The top tenth of 1 percent had more income in 2003 than the poorest third of taxpayers, a group with 330 times the number of people, analysis of the data showed. This is a sharp change from 1979, the earliest year in the I.R.S. report, when the total income of the poorest third of Americans exceeded that garnered by the top tenth of 1 percent by 2.5 to 1.

The I.R.S. data tend to understate incomes for those at the very top because of different rules for reporting wages and capital gains, meaning the actual disparity was larger than the official data show.

Other data show that among major world economies, the United States in recent years has had the third-greatest disparity in incomes between the very top and everyone else. Only Mexico and Russia, among major economies, have greater disparity.

Bruce Bartlett, a fiscally conservative Republican tax expert who is writing a book on the tax system, said that he found it remarkable that "just 129,000 tax filers pay more than 15 percent of all federal income taxes."

"Despite all the tax cuts" and flatter tax rates, "it's important to note that the tax code remains effectively progressive," he argued, meaning people with higher incomes pay higher tax rates.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I get something entirely different out of article my friend.

After the tax cut they were comparing the top 10 % for reference.

Now they had to move to top 1 % and as low as 129,000 tax filers

If you wait till end of this term they will reduced comparing Bill Gates to the Crack Whore in Jacks video in general forum :mj07:

 

[Chadman]

Not sure what/who you are referencing here, my friend. Who is "they?" Who is comparing anything here in this story, as far as top 10, top 1? I'm sure there are other numbers, percentages, etc., that can be studied and discussed. Interesting that you would deflect from the point of this story and talk about what "they" did in some abstract way.

This is just an illustration of who Bush's tax cuts really helped. Nothing surprising here. Just a gentle reminder of where his priorities lie, in black and white, so to speak. It would not really surprise me if his tax cuts did not result in promised benefits for the top 2-10%, either, as his main interest deals WITH the upper-uppers.

 

[djv]

This is just 2003 wait to number for 2004. Believe they will have continued to do very well. Maybe even better.

 

[Sun Tzu]

let me tell you ...I am in the top 1% and it aint all it is cracked up to be. Tax wise being at the "bottom' of the 1% is the worst place of all. Life is good and i dont mean to sound like I am complaining, but if you think folks in that position are high on the hog from tax cuts you are very mistaken.

 

[Chadman]

I respect the monies you have to pay, and that your burden, proportionately is high. I do not think you are high on the hog from the cuts. The point is, relatively, you are benefitting from them. There are plenty of ways to look at everything, including the benefits of making larger sums of money due to what taxes pay for and using methods to distribute, report and show income.

 

[dr. freeze]

no question about it, people who work hard and achieve like Sun Tzu should have to pay the bill for everyone else

He has trampled on the poor and kept them down. He is responsible

Great article Chadman.

Guys like Sun Tzu, who pay 99% of the taxes in this country, are clearly not paying their fair share.

Lets hope they all go to the poorhouse and that we kill off the American Dream.

Vive Lenin!

 

[kosar]

Nothing to add, really. Just sitting here lmao at Freeze's sig.

 

[Palehose]

Bwahahahaha ! guess I should disregaurd my 10% raise in 2003 ,my 7% raise in 2005 as well as the 20k Bonus according to this artical I never got it :mj07:

 

[Nosigar]

Note:

A government cannot make you rich ( generally speaking)... but it can sure make you poor.




of course, if you're a murdering, baby killer, monster, (insert leftist name calling du jour here) like Cheney, then you can.

 

[Chadman]

no question about it, people who work hard and achieve like Sun Tzu should have to pay the bill for everyone else

He has trampled on the poor and kept them down. He is responsible

Great article Chadman.

Guys like Sun Tzu, who pay 99% of the taxes in this country, are clearly not paying their fair share.

Lets hope they all go to the poorhouse and that we kill off the American Dream.

Vive Lenin!

Wow, where do I begin with this one? I have no idea what Sun Tzu does for a living, or how he makes/has made his money. Nor, do I say he is not deserving of the money he makes.

This article said nothing about the rich trampling the poor and keeping them down, nor did I.

Of course, you automatically connect someone who has a lot of money with being a hard worker. You have intimated that people who make money are hard workers, thus insinuating that those who don't make a lot of money evidently are not hard workers. This is infuriating and is a special kind of class warfare - which DOES keep poor people down in many ways.

If you don't support George Bush and the war in Iraq, you are unpatriotic. If you don't make a lot of money, you don't work hard. Here's a news flash for you, Freeze...there are a lot of former and present soldiers that consider this war unnecessary and not a good thing for our country to be a part of. There are a lot of wealthy people that didn't do a darn thing except come out of the right mother and start crying that have a lot of money. People who have never worked a day in their lives.

There are hard working people at all economic levels. People at lower levels pay a larger percentage of their discretionary income in taxes. Those who can least afford it, pay a heck of a lot comparatively, in many cases.

Do you honestly think that the upper 1% wealth-wise in this country do not make more money than those with less wealth BECAUSE of the tax system and what it affords them to do in this country? If so, I'd say you are wrong. That's why people came to this country in the first place...and set up a progressive tax system. Those who make more money SHOULD pay more, because they BENEFIT more from the system.

I would listen to arguments that suggest a flat tax would be fairer to all Americans, although I have not studied it enough. If it closed the loopholes that those who can afford to use them and everyone paid the exact same percentage and the government actually collected all of the taxes equally - and people didn't cheat the government, then maybe it would work. There is truth to the thinking that those who can afford to pay more, should, because it's fair. It's fair because they are afforded more opportunities for success, health, wealth and future growth. Opportunities that millions of people who do work hard will never benefit from, no matter how hard they work.

Finally, I am not sure what you mean by "guys like Sun Tzu who pay 99% of all taxes in this country." Seems like you are giving a lot of credit to a select few. Guys like Sun Tzu - even by this article - paid a third of the taxes. They made 17.5% of ALL the income in the country. 17.5% of all income is a heck of a lot bigger number than 33% of all income taxes.

Obviously, in this tax system the upper echelon of our country's moneymakers are not doing too badly, despite how rough things are for them. In fact, things seem to be getting better and better over the past few years.

Congratulations. You critics better be careful...the next system might not help them out as much as this "penalizing" one does. Nothing a little "hard work" can't get you over, eh?

 

[IntenseOperator]

I trying to get this DeVito quote right from the flick "Other People's Money".....

"They can change the rules of the game, but they can't change the game"

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Chad My comment was made only to fact you have to be leary to #'s both parties point you to for reference to support their claims.
Classic example was last night on Oreilly they had rep from black org commenting on Bennetts comments --who stated that Bennett would have been more correct had he said killing white newborn and quoted stats from DOJ that more whites were serial killers and arsons--he was absolutly correct but they respresent less than 1 % of criminals--

 

[Chadman]

You are absoultely correct, DTB. Both parties - and their supporters - use numbers and articles to their benefit. I am as guilty as anyone in that regard.

 

[dr. freeze]

Of course, you automatically connect someone who has a lot of money with being a hard worker. You have intimated that people who make money are hard workers, thus insinuating that those who don't make a lot of money evidently are not hard workers. This is infuriating and is a special kind of class warfare - which DOES keep poor people down in many ways.

Great example of a minion showing his inability to reason

Dude, go grab a book explaining to you how to simply use deductive reasoning

There is no use discussing this issue any further, because you are on a lower level of discourse than me with such incredulous insinuations

Go listen to your buddies Al Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, and Charlies Rangel. They use similar lines of thought speaking to similar delusional people.

No one came to this country for a "progressive tax". LMAO. If anything we threw a little tea party in regards to taxation. Read a little history about taxation in our country. Tell us how much better your tax money is spent as opposed to the evil rich people who build hospitals, fund research, provide jobs, move commerce with great efficiency creating low prices at low costs, give to charity, deliver charity with accountability.

You leftists would rather give people donuts, beer and cigarettes and watch them eat, drink and smoke themselves to death. And watch these people become more and more helpless and government dependent and unable to fend for themselves and family. And look what you get. You get disaster and people unable to cope because you have taken away their will to excel.

You have no compassion for humankind and our instincts to be self-reliant, independent, and fighters instead of feeders.

Your backwards, impractical worldview and utopian economic philosophy are the reasons why we have people who are so unhealthy and commit so many crimes in our community by portraying them all as victims instead of victors which people from my worldview think everyone are capable of being. Nice life you have brought to these folks. Nice life.

Conservatives believe that everyone can achieve the American Dream wich a little motivation, hard work, and dreaming. Leftists for some reason think that everyone has to always be stratified into their born demographic and that only they are capable of telling us how to divy up our hard earned money.

Elitism that wreaks of arrogance.

 

[smurphy]

Ya well, I'm in the top one tenth of the top one tenth of the top 1% and I say Bush sucks ass. I'd rather see millions of Americans do fairly well than me do mega-jackpot well.

By the way, my Inner circle says take Philly this week. I'm putting 1 trillion dollars on it myself. My host from the Westward Ho - Mary I believe is her name - agrees with the bet. Can't wait to collect on the sure thing lock. Anything can happen of course - but this is as strong of a guarantee as they come. I've already put a down payment on that Hawaii leper Island. My realtor thinks a trillion dollar bet slip is pretty good collateral. I'll host a big party when I collect- everyone's invited .....yeah, even Republicans.

 

[Palehose]

Ya well, I'm in the top one tenth of the top one tenth of the top 1% and I say Bush sucks ass. I'd rather see millions of Americans do fairly well than me do mega-jackpot well.

By the way, my Inner circle says take Philly this week. I'm putting 1 trillion dollars on it myself. My host from the Westward Ho - Mary I believe is her name - agrees with the bet. Can't wait to collect on the sure thing lock. Anything can happen of course - but this is as strong of a guarantee as they come. I've already put a down payment on that Hawaii leper Island. My realtor thinks a trillion dollar bet slip is pretty good collateral. I'll host a big party when I collect- everyone's invited .....yeah, even Republicans.

If you really felt this way you and the rest of the liers would be donating untill you have nothing more than a middle class lifestyle in fact we both know that would go much further than giving it to the Government to piss away 90% of it before it did anyone any good ,so please dont think everyone is that stupid. Granted poeple have to actually believe your in the top 1% :mj07:

 

[Chadman]

Great example of a minion showing his inability to reason

Dude, go grab a book explaining to you how to simply use deductive reasoning

There is no use discussing this issue any further, because you are on a lower level of discourse than me with such incredulous insinuations

Go listen to your buddies Al Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, and Charlies Rangel. They use similar lines of thought speaking to similar delusional people.

No one came to this country for a "progressive tax". LMAO. If anything we threw a little tea party in regards to taxation. Read a little history about taxation in our country. Tell us how much better your tax money is spent as opposed to the evil rich people who build hospitals, fund research, provide jobs, move commerce with great efficiency creating low prices at low costs, give to charity, deliver charity with accountability.

You leftists would rather give people donuts, beer and cigarettes and watch them eat, drink and smoke themselves to death. And watch these people become more and more helpless and government dependent and unable to fend for themselves and family. And look what you get. You get disaster and people unable to cope because you have taken away their will to excel.

You have no compassion for humankind and our instincts to be self-reliant, independent, and fighters instead of feeders.

Your backwards, impractical worldview and utopian economic philosophy are the reasons why we have people who are so unhealthy and commit so many crimes in our community by portraying them all as victims instead of victors which people from my worldview think everyone are capable of being. Nice life you have brought to these folks. Nice life.

Conservatives believe that everyone can achieve the American Dream wich a little motivation, hard work, and dreaming. Leftists for some reason think that everyone has to always be stratified into their born demographic and that only they are capable of telling us how to divy up our hard earned money.

Elitism that wreaks of arrogance.

Well, I guess I have been beaten down and put back in my place by the high and mighty (and intellectually superior, by the way) conservative. I'm surprised you waste your time even responding to my drivel...I know you probably have some hospitals to build and some products to move around today, so don't let me slow you down.

Evidently, you feel that your money and the other rich conservatives money, is better spent than my tax money. I thought all of our tax money went to the same place - the place you complain about (well, only half of the place, but you know what I mean). I would guess that you mean all the discretionary income the rich people have, and not the tax money, but it's hard to tell from your post. Of course my insinuations are incredulous, and you draw analogies to the most far-left embarrassing members of my political affiliation to make a point. Thanks, I guess you're analogies come from your focus group of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Rick Santorum.

Look, I didn't mean that people left Britain for the U.S. because it had a nice progressive tax system. Of course, that would be an idiotic statement. Even in the early days of this country, founders realized that if they needed to fight wars and wanted general improvements to their way of life that additional revenues would have to come from somewhere. They realized that simple tariffs and excise taxes would not get the job done - and even then - people realized these things penalized those less affluent. At every important point in this country's history, when funding was important, federal income taxes were either established, reinstated, or raised. Liberals and conservatives alike realized this was a good way to raise revenues for the betterment and protection of the American way of life.

America was colonized and those who were here felt like they were paying taxes without representation in regards to Britain. Understandable. The key words here are "without representation." Not, "paying taxes." Sure, there are those who had a lot of money - not unlike today - that would have preferred to keep all of there money and have other people fend for themselves. But boy, when they were threatened, they sure enjoyed pooling their money to build a strong defense to protect what they had, didn't they?

Of course, many of these people also owned a bunch of slaves. I guess that was ok, too, huh? That was great...they put people to work and everything. They built them a little place to live - or more appropriately, they had them build it - and then let them share the crops, so to speak. Wasn't that nice of them. Even then, we had the American dream for some, but not all. Oh, you could dream, of course, but it wasn't realistic.

I've already taken up too much time here, and I'll probably come back and write more later. A couple more things before I go...

I was FOR reform of our welfare system. I think there should be limits to how much and how long people should receive those benefits, and the system was overhauled during Clinton's watch. I think there are abuses in the system...bad ones. I saw it first hand, and it pizzed me off. Of course, there are abuses in the system on the high end, too, as those more fortunate screw others, hide incomes, launder money, and outright fabricate to avoid paying their share. There are abuses at all levels of society.

I think the system is worth looking at. I think both the tax system and our entitlement system need work. I don't think a blanket look at either is a smart thing, but some do. Do away with both, and let everyone fend for themselves, evidently, is the best way to live life. I can certainly see that, if you have everything.

I'm not sure why you decided to personalize this. But it reeks of the same kind of socio-economic labeling that measures income and political affiliation with intelligence and personal effort. I can just envision you sitting there typing, with your little Bush Monkey-smirk on your face - thinking that you are smarter or better in some way than I am.

I don't like to make these discussions personal. But, I guess you do. To each their own. I hope you feel better, doctor.

 

[smurphy]

If you really felt this way you and the rest of the liers would be donating untill you have nothing more than a middle class lifestyle in fact we both know that would go much further than giving it to the Government to piss away 90% of it before it did anyone any good ,so please dont think everyone is that stupid. Granted poeple have to actually believe your in the top 1% :mj07:

Man, yer stupid. You have to be the only person on earth who actually get riled up over a silly post like mine was.

for the last time, stop following me around.

 

[dr. freeze]

thinking that you are smarter or better in some way than I am.

I don't consider myself any better than you. Forgive me, my liberal friend, if I come across that way.

Keep listening though and you will learn why your economic philosophy is not only wrong, but detrimental to people who you believe you are trying to help.

We both want to help the poor, and we both believe that everyone is equal in the eyes of our maker, or whoever you believe in or don't believe in. Hopefully I will be able to enlighten you as to how there is a better way to do so than your failed liberal policies which should be proof in themselves that they do not work. And you are right, Clinton did some things to help the problems, but there is still a long way to go. And so far only Reagan and Clinton have touched the problems in any semblence of help, Clinton however I would argue did far more harm by promoting the "victim mentality" than he did with welfare reform.

As far as being smarter than you? Of course I am.

Good night.