The time has come for a change

Master Capper

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Hell we are up to the year 2004 and still we as voters have limted choice, on one hand we can reelect the tired old shit Bush-CHeney whom have lied and made madjack while in the houseand Cheney is nothing but a white collar crook or we can elect John Kerry and Edwards who I feel offer very limited change! I know we can vote for the third parties but we all know thats a wasted vote, why can't we have more choices? These guys really suck! Hasn't ot reached a point where change is needed? If you support Bush, my question is why? This guy is a moron, he lacks the ability to make good judgements and personally when I think of a president I want someone whom is smarter than the average guy which he is not! Then again if you elect Kerry what difference are you getting? Granted he is more intelligent than Bush but what does he stand for? I dont know and I have been looking for some clue! My question is why cant we put a cap on what you cna spend for election? Do the Unions and big Corporations controls the elections that bad? Why cant we put a hard cap on the elections say at 50 million and make these guys get out and stump for votes? At this point I see very little differences between the two parties and the choice this year of Bush or kerry is terrible both are unqualified to serve, Bush has allready proved he is worthless and I cannot see Kerry being any better!
 

Scott4USC

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Reasons to support Bush........

*No terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11. :thumb:

*Tax rates have been lowered significantly. :thumb:

*Economy is obviously growing. :thumb:

*With Bush you know what he stands for. He does not flip flop. :thumb:
(unlike Kerry)

You wrongly say Bush is stupid. Bush cannot be stupid if he graduated from Yale. He also ran successful businesses. Lastly, he was overwhelmingly re-elected for his second term as governor of Texas.

Then you wrongly call Cheney a crook. Cheney has not been charged nor convicted of any crime. "Just like Clinton" How can you call Cheney a crook?

You then suggest Kerry is more intelligent. Kerry may have more brain power but that has nothing to do with good leadership.


At this point I see very little differences between the two parties

Why do you say that? I'll give one MAJOR difference. Kerry and Edwards want to raise taxes and Bush and Cheney want to lower taxes. That good enough for you? There are plenty more differences between the 2 parties.


the choice this year of Bush or Kerry is terrible both are unqualified to serve

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Bush was a 2 term governor of Texas. In case you didn't know, Texas has either the 5th or 6th largest economy of the world!!!! If Clinton was qualified for being governor of Arkansas, tiny Arkansas which was practically dead last in everything in the United States, then both Bush and Kerry without question are qualified. In defense of Kerry, he has been a senator for a long time, I think over 10 years, which makes him qualified.


or we can elect John Kerry and Edwards who I feel offer very limited change!

With Kerry, you unfortunately can count on another 9/11 incident. War on terrorism will come to a grinding halt. Then we will have another 9/11 incident.
 

bjfinste

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I was going to just sit back and wait for Kosar or Eddie to knock this slow-pitch, beer-league softball pitch out of the park, but since this will be my 1500th post and I want to make it count, I can't resist....

As if we didn't need another reason to vote out Bush, we get Scott coming in here to do a post on Bush that resembles one of his patented "USC is the greatest thing in the universe and everyone else sucks" posts that are so commonplace in the college football forum. If you were on the fence before, a Scott4USC post about Bush's strengths, touting intellectual gems such as "You wrongly say Bush is stupid. Bush cannot be stupid if he graduated from Yale,".... well, now I think you can feel safe choosing Kerry.
 

Scott4USC

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bjfinste

What a waste of a 1500th post. You should have answered Master Cappers questions and talked about what you agree or disagreed with his post. Instead, you chose to talk about me. MC?s post was about Bush, Cheney, Kerry, and Edwards and our country?s political system. Next time try and stay on topic and not focus on me. Thanks. :thumb:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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In voting I will consider pocketbook-economy-safety and overall values I consider good for country.

Pocketbook. While this administration has spent much on some aspects I do not agree with-Medicare plan in particular there was also huge spending to increase defense which was cut to the bone previously.While I am not happy with deficeit to think the #1 and #4 ranked spenders in congress (Kerry/Edwards) would be salvation would be utterly fool hardy and would rather have my tax $ spent on defence than entitlements.--an speaking of taxes and pocketbook--that is a no brainer.

Economy--as before I think neither would make much diff--I do think it is unbelievable that economy has rebounded from recession starting at end of Clinton administration considering that plus 911 plus 2 wars. I think low inflation and interest rates is primary cause but can't say I think any one person is responsible---but I will say if it isn't broke don't fix it.

Safety--May be a minority but glad to see someone taking the fight to the terrorist--considering after Trade Center bombing Kerry voted to cut inteligence funding by over a Billion there is not much to consider on this issue.

Overall values I do NOT share the values of ACLU and their gay agenda/fighting for rights of child ponographers,anti -religion in general and considering Kerry/Edwards are 2 of most liberal lawyers/politicians and getting most of their campaign funding from this area this is also no brainer.

Since intelligence was brought up I think Cheney-Edwards would rank 1-2 in intelligence.
While I don't respect how he got it I do have respect for Edwards being the only one who basically started from scratch and worked his way up--so would give him the nod of the four for being able to relate to the lttle guy.Also if I ranked them on personality and had to pick one to bum around with I would pick Edwards 1st and Bush 2nd. The only thing keeping me from liking Edwards above all is his Personal Injury backround and the monetary support coming in from the same element to the tune of making them the largest contributors to date for Kerry/Edwards cause and that is frightening and can not be ignored.

Ranking last would be Kerry who in my opinion is owned by his wife.When he borrowed against "his" portion of their home to run his primary campaign is was noted that on his own bootstraps he might never be able to repay it with his assets alone.When you marry your 2nd millionaress and she makes you sign pre nup that tells me quite a bit.

Also A huge cobsideration is whomever the enemy is for I will be against. While there has been discussion that Aljazeera-Hezbalah and others aren't pulling for the left if you read their horahs for Micheal Moore you might consider their daily holah for Kerry.--a little today from Aljazeera I can't remember the last time they didn't have a front page article quoting some liberal.See if you can find ONE quoting a conservative source.Fair and balanced ;)
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D5A04D27-3088-4303-8E57-15C457FD2A1E.htm
 
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djv

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Since most of Bushs spending has did little for many. The stock market still well short of what was lost under his leadership. Unemployment stalled. Jobs needed falling behind. In fact we need 3.5 million more fast. Milk, Eggs, Butter out of site. Health care tripled. Just maybe we do need some new faces to spend a little to help us Americans in the middle class. The rich are in real good shape. Even the poor are not to bad off. It's all us in the middle that could use some help. Tax cuts they say. Mind went up. I don't know yet how they pulled that off. No attacks in US they say. Last time these bastards waited 10 years to come back. I would just not brag about it yet. Pray we get enough done to stop them the next time. So far we have not made us a heck of alot safer. Not with our wide open borders.
 

Blackman

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Scott4USC said:
With Kerry, you unfortunately can count on another 9/11 incident. War on terrorism will come to a grinding halt. Then we will have another 9/11 incident.[/SIZE]


Yup -- I'm sure Al Queda will call off all future plans if Bush wins the election :rolleyes:
 

Eddie Haskell

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but what is the problem with Edwards earning a lot of money as a personal injury trial lawyer. Seems to me that if he is able to get cases of that caliber and get outstanding verdicts he must have some smarts and abilities. He and I do the same kind of work and all the more power to him if he is able to garner those fees.

It's funny that Edwards is vicously and repititously attacked on this board for earning his money (by the way, he did earn his money) and Kerry is attacked for being rich and marrying rich yet very little attention is paid to the two criminals in the white house. Did Bush earn his money. No, he dodged the real military, hit nice drives on the golf course while snorting a ton of blow, and is a charter member of the lucky sperm club.

Cheney and Haliburton. To quote Keats, "That is all ye know and all ye need to know." I've never attacked the Bush family for being loaded. I'll attack the moronic puppet for not earning one penny (to the contrary, the scumball was quite a business man I hear) and taking advantage of his family fortune. Unlike Bush, Kerry has a brain.

Cheney rise to dictatorship has been a behind the scenes mixture of business and politics. Although not in the lucky sperm club (no one, and I repeat, no one from Wyoming and Nebraska can be deemed to be in the lucky sperm club) this most evil man manipulated business and political contacts to amass what most believe to be quite a fortune.

The bottom line is that you generally do not hear much of an attack by the moderates and the left on the amount and manner in which Adolph Bush and Hermann Cheney amassed their respective fortunes but rather the new American Nazi party seems to be firing both barrells at the manner and amount of Kerry/Edwards personal wealth. Once again the best defense is an offense.

I am really looking forward to the debates this fall. I just wonder if the Bushman will answer one question or if he will memorize (to the best of his ability) the pre-planned diatribe prepared by his advisors. I anticipate Dick will use a Dogs that Bark approach and attack Edwards occupation as a lawyer, feeding on the media driven, insurance industry fed, animosity toward lawyers. It will be interesting to see how Edwards, the trial lawyer, does.

Cheney of course will come across as this hard driven, unemotional, I-know-whats-right, soft spoken, assured, successful, business executive and just out and out lie. In his prior appearances on Meet the Press, et seq, he takes this approach and admittedly, does it very well. Unlike his mentally challenged boss, Cheney is smart and should not be underestimated. Oh, I forgot to add purely evil to my description of our illustrious vice president.

Eddie
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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DJV Stock Market--actual the Dow is not much different (10,213) vs 10,952 on 11-7-2000
Not bad considring price of oil-2 wars and hit 911 put on economy. The Nas is down after collapse of dot coms but put neither their boom or collapse on any administration. I know you have credited Slick for your retirement but fail to mention under Bush in 4 years your company stock has risen bout 300%.
Why is that????? Maybe your heirs will send him thank you card :)

Edward I do not begrudge Edwards for earnings because regardless of profession he did earn it with hard work and I certainly don't begrudge him of sheltering it from taxes. In fact I genuinely like the fellow--just not the company he keeps.

Now since your always bringing up insurance agents let me say this. While I can't speak for other agents, stats show most are conservative, I will tell you how you and I differ. Tort reform will have same impact on one primary area in both our professions--our earnings.Both of us take a hit in earnings.Every time insurance rates increase agents get a built in raise. Now can you tell me why most agents would support anything that effected their pocket book adversely and PI's do not. Think about it!!!!!!!!!!

Was nice to see some more of your "thinking man quotes above.
Would you do a reprint supported by fact vs opinion.It would save you LOTS of time.
 

Scott4USC

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Blackman

Yup -- I'm sure Al Queda will call off all future plans if Bush wins the election :rolleyes:

Al Queda most likely has not called off anything it is just that they have not been able to pull off anything on US soil since 9/11 under the Bush administration. They may be waiting for Kerry to win the election so the security will be relaxed, then they can do as they please. :wall:
 

Mjolnir

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did anyone notice that Kerry was too busy to attend an important terrorism briefing. what could possibly be more important?
 

JT

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Guess the Bush supporters forget that 9/11 happened on his watch. Hopefully next time Airplanes are off their flight path, fighter jets scramble like they should. Personally I am voting Libertarian. :poke
 

Master Capper

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My main point is that I think a change is needed in the way we hold our general elections, I just think we should have a hard cap on spending and thus this would give us more folks to choose from.
 

Blackman

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Scott4USC said:
Blackman



Al Queda most likely has not called off anything it is just that they have not been able to pull off anything on US soil since 9/11 under the Bush administration. They may be waiting for Kerry to win the election so the security will be relaxed, then they can do as they please. :wall:

Yup you're right. The day Kerry steps into office I think he's going to disband the military and maybe he'll even give Al Queda a nuke or two to drop on us.

You say that Al Queda has not been able to "pull off" anything since 9/11, but how do we know that they tried? Such elaborate plans like that attacks on 9/11 take years upon years to coordinate, so it's not like they are throwing together attack plans daily and we keep defusing them.


I realize that his stance will be less aggressive than Bush's, and I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, but to act like he's going to take office and just let all borders go unprotected is stupid.

What's next Scott, are you going to tell me that Kerry is actually a secret spy for Bin Landen?


And if you really think that Al Queda will be able to "do as they please" if Kerry gets in office then why are you still living here? Seems like a major risk to stick around when there is probably a 50% that they will be pillaging our country by January 2005.
 
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StevieD

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al-Qaedas or anybody could blow up or gas a subway anytime they want under this joke of security set up by Ridge and Bush. They have done nothing about security for the subways except to post a rent a cop at most stations. Yup, that'll stop them. Here in Boston we have extra security measures being taken out for the time the Democratic National Convention is in town. If our subways are safe why do we need extra security when the DNC is in town? Reason is obvious, it is because we do not have adequate protection. May al-Qaeda will just wait until after the Dems leave or gas us before they come, but wait, now I am starting to sound like Tom Ridge. The whole thing is a sick joke.
As for the stock market it should be good. Even better than it has been. Low intrest rates and two wars! Wars are usually good for the market as there is a lot of hardware to buy. After two wars Bush can barely keep this one above water. More proff that his tax cuts for the rich didn't work. Also unemployment. We need to replace hardware used in those two wars. So even with his bump up in that unemployment is still pretty bad. More proff that his tax cuts for the rich didn't work.
 

SixFive

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MC, interesting post. I will agree with you that both candidates leave a lot to be desired although I'm not quite as hard on Bush as u are. However, I think he has made some blunders, especially with spending.

I'm just not sure that a 50M cap on their spending is really going to do anything.

A VIABLE third party choice would be nice. I would also like an alternative, but there is none, that's a fact come election time. As much as some hate Bush, if they vote Libertarian, Green, or whatever third party choice they have, that's a vote for Bush, and that's the bottom line just like a vote for Perot was a vote for Clinton in '92. (I'll insert a Dan Quayle quote here from 1992, "If Ross Perot runs, that's good for us. If he doesn't run, it's good for us.")


The Democrats really f'd up with Kerry. He is such a weak, easy to dislike candidate. Edwards seems to be quite inexperienced for a candidate, but frankly, I felt he was the best candidate of the lot in the primaries. I would have really thought about giving him my vote had he been the candidate. Being a lawyer really doesn't bother me since he's a politician. I've come to expect less from politicians.

However, since these are my 2 choices, the choice for me is clear. To put it in handicapping terms, I'm going to "fade" Kerry. At least Bush has some morals and stands for some of the traditional values that I strongly believe in. I can't think of anything I agree with that Kerry stands for.
 

Chanman

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bjfinste- "Boy he really hit that one w/the thick part of the bat, it looks like it'll defy gravity, and right @ center field too. I think thats the game as its going, going, going.....awwww he caught it! Well Ralph lets see who's up next?"

StevieD- AT LEAST BUSH ATTENDED THE SECURITY BREIFINGS.
j/k -figured that was the standard conservative response.

6"5": Give that man a Cigar! I totally agree. Can you imagine what the Arab World- not to mention Al Jazeera- would be saying if Gore was elected w/Lieberman as VP? Don't think we're ready, or them, for President Hillary anytime soon :scared Before we throw in the towel one must admit that we don't know all he facts and we never will. In all fairness, I don't see how we can blame Bush for 9/11 and not ourselves for lapses in security, i.e., Overstaying on Visas, Airport Screeners, etc. (Oh Yeah, I forgot about M. Moore)

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/index.htm


Improvements in Western Intelligence
May 14, 2004

By Fred Burton

Western tensions over the safety of corporate assets in the Middle East -- particularly in Saudi Arabia -- have ratcheted higher during the past month amid a stream of government security warnings and several deadly attacks and militant shootouts.

Though the concerns and the level of violence within Saudi Arabia are hardly unprecedented, the credibility of alerts issued by the United States and other Western governments is on the rise. Consider the following examples:



April 13: The United States issued a Warden Message cautioning Westerners about threats against diplomatic and other official facilities and neighborhoods in Riyadh. Two days later, a U.S. travel warning "strongly urged" Americans to leave the kingdom. On April 19 and 20, Saudi officials announced seizures of vehicles carrying explosives. On April 21, a car bomb was detonated in front of a Saudi intelligence facility in Riyadh, killing several people.


April 27: Jordanian officials claimed to have foiled an al Qaeda chemical bomb plot targeting the country's intelligence services. The plot allegedly involved trucks packed with 20 tons of explosives.


April 29: The U.S. State Department issued a worldwide caution, warning of deep concerns over the safety of U.S. interests abroad -- and noting that government officials have not ruled out a nonconventional al Qaeda attacks in the United States or elsewhere. On May 1, gunmen killed five Westerners -- including two Americans -- at the offices of Swiss oil contractor ABB Lummus in Yanbu. The shooters later were praised in a statement, purportedly from al Qaeda's top official in Saudi Arabia, carried on the Islamist Web site Sawt al-Jihad.


European security services recently have announced several militant roundups and "foiled plots" against specific targets. On April 21, British newspapers reported the discovery of a bombing plot against a football stadium -- possibly the field used by Manchester United -- and the arrest of 10 suspects. A well-placed counterterrorism source later told Stratfor that the sweep -- the second major roundup in Britain in less than a month -- was conducted less to thwart a specific attack than as a very public pre-emptive action to reassure citizens of their safety. On May 4, Turkish police said they detained 16 suspected members of the al Qaeda-linked Ansar al-Islam, accused of planning bombing attacks against the NATO summit that is scheduled to take place in Istanbul in June.

The contrast with past intelligence warnings is stark: In December 2003, the State Department authorized the voluntary departure of diplomats' family members -- but more than a month after the bombing of a Western housing compound in Riyadh killed 17 people. A similar communiqu?, which ordered the departure of nonessential U.S. personnel and their dependents, was issued May 13, 2003 -- a day after another housing compound bombing that claimed 34 lives.

Taken together, the recent incidents indicate the United States and its allies are armed with increasingly actionable intelligence from their sources in the Middle East, Pakistan and elsewhere. Although al Qaeda might remain, in the intelligence community's words, a "ghost" or an elusive hydra, the community's failures prior to the Sept. 11 attacks no longer can justify ongoing complacency toward its warnings about the risks of attacks. The government alerts also cannot be dismissed merely as attempts to elicit "chatter" or otherwise improve officials' view into th! e threat from radical Islam.

These events indicate that at least some parts of the U.S. counterterrorism community have reached a crucial milestone in their operational and analytical capabilities -- which aids their ability to predict al Qaeda's next moves and other emerging threats. It is in light of this assessment that threats issued specifically against the domestic United States, in addition to Western assets overseas, could be viewed as credible.

Security Cooperation: An Improving View

One of the first questions this assessment raises is whether this same level of intelligence capability exists globally, or merely in a few isolated regions?

While it is clear some weaknesses remain -- for example, Washington had no warning prior to the March 11 train bombings in Madrid -- it appears that U.S. counterterrorism collection has improved greatly in the past few months. Sour! ces in Washington tell Stratfor that both human intelligence and technical collection capabilities -- such as wiretaps and other methods -- significantly have increased in conjunction with coordinated intelligence and law enforcement efforts around the world. Western intelligence services and analytical think tanks -- such as MI6, the Center for Strategic International Studies and the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation -- along with the services of "friendly" Middle Eastern nations such as Jordan, specifically have aided Washington's tactical and strategic capabilities and helped in interdicting attacks.

Moreover, foiled attacks and post-op investigations in other countries, such as Britain and Spain, have yielded a flurry of data: Pocket litter from detainees, phone numbers, forensic evidence, fingerprints, travel documents and other items can be shared with allied intelligence services to generate new leads for counterterrorism officials to run down.

It! is conceivable these achievements prompted the allegedly planned or actual attacks against the allied intelligence services in Riyadh and Amman in recent weeks.
 

Chanman

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The U.S. Risk Environment

For its part, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security also has grown increasingly proactive in the wake of the March 11 attacks in Spain, turning its passenger screening efforts to the nation's rail system -- doubtless armed with intelligence that indicated rail and bus lines were vulnerable to a Madrid-style strike. Trusted law enforcement sources tell Stratfor they are watching for threats to bomb buses during the summer travel season (likely as the result of human intelligence reports or interrogation of al Qaeda suspects), though some commercial bus lines still do not employ luggage-screeners.

Stratfor previously predicted that a terrorist attack is possible, if not likely, within the United States prior to the November presidential elections. Logic reinforce! s this view from both a geostrategic and tactical standpoint.

Though it has not achieved its goal of ousting any secular governments within the Muslim world, al Qaeda learned in Spain that it is possible, with a well-timed attack, to overturn a sitting government in the Western Hemisphere; in its view, few prizes could be greater than forcing U.S. President George W. Bush out of office. U.S. government officials appear to support this view: National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice recently said the opportunity for terrorists to impact the presidential election would "be too good to pass up," and the April 29 warning issued by the State Department also concludes that al Qaeda might attempt "a catastrophic attack" within the United States.

Where might such an attack occur?

In light of the recent plots targeting the Jordanian and Saudi intelligence services, it would seem that CIA headq! uarters in Langley, Va., or Britain's MI6 headquarters could be targets -- though they would not be easily struck. Langley, for example, has an excellent standoff perimeter to protect it from Oklahoma City-style truck bombings. Militants would need some way of getting past those defenses -- such as a fuel-laden aircraft or a Jordan-style tactical operation, using a designated team to eliminate guards and move the truck bomb within striking distance of the buildings.

Much more vulnerable targets, in our view, are likely to be found in Washington, D.C. (a symbolic city, where the brain trust of "Crusader" actions against the Middle East is found); New York City (the nation's economic hub, and home to a large Jewish population); and Texas -- Bush's backyard -- though visible targets are more easily found in major cities such as Houston or Dallas than in the capital city of Austin.

West Coast cities such as Los Angeles -- where several plots reportedly have been foiled -! - also cannot be discounted as targets: Al Qaeda has shown a propensity in the past to return time and again to favored fishing holes. Such cities also are home to major corporations, which carry political, symbolic and strategic value: Al Qaeda believes that if the U.S. economy crashes, the war effort overseas could not continue. In one of the most recent tape recordings attributed to him, Osama bin Laden specifically mentioned some American corporations as likely targets.

Though there is no hard evidence, logic argues that the next major attack within the United States or allied countries could just as easily be a "dirty bomb" -- a possibility noted in the April 29 State Department warning as well as by foreign security services -- as a Madrid-style transportation bombing. Trusted U.S. government sources say this is a viable attack scenario; and it is not inconceivable that some type of chemical agen! t could be dispersed through the use of an improvised explosive device. The Jordanian authorities and the alleged leader of the foiled plot in Amman claimed that attack was to have a chemical component, though that claim is questionable. At any rate, chemicals such as ammonia, chlorine or sodium cyanide are easily obtained when compared to radioactive material or even anthrax, with its proven panic potential.

The "shock and awe" psychological effects of such an attack would ripple throughout the country and resonate as a great success with Islamist radicals around the world -- a credibility coup for which al Qaeda has been searching in order to further its own political goals in the Middle East.

The point is not that al Qaeda could have new means or motives to launch a dirty bomb attack -- this has been a U.S. fear, and perceived risk, since Sept. 11. Rather, it is that the U.S. intelligence community's increasingly proactive track record -- combined with the specifi! city of targets mentioned in recent warnings and growing consensus about the window of opportunity for a fresh attack -- lend a new aura of credibility and urgency to ongoing warnings.

In the war against militant Islam, it seems the United States no longer is flying completely blind.
 

djv

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Kerry gets his hot briefing tomorrow. Last time they offered he was on his way to Florida. As you can see since last week Wednesday briefing not much happen. It was more of the same BS.
DTB of course a few companies did well. Im glad mind did. But the market should be at 11900. Hell it should be at 12900. It should have went up from 10900 in three years. With the good business two wars bring. Low interest because we got that deficit payed off back in 98. Look out for interest now with all the new deficit were back into.
 
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