the useless u.n. on darfur...

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
by mark steyn

""
I SEE George Clooney and Angelina Jolie have discovered Darfur and are now demanding "action". Good for them. Hollywood hasn't shown this much interest in indigenous groups of the Sudan since John Payne and Jerry Colonna sang The Girlfriend of the Whirling Dervish in Garden of the Moon (1938).

I wish the celebs well. Those of us who wanted action on Darfur years ago will hope their advocacy produces more results than ours did. Clooney's concern for the people of the region appears to be genuine and serious. But unless he's also serious about backing the only forces in the world with the capability and will to act in Sudan, he's just another showboating pretty boy of no use to anyone.
Here's the lesson of the past three years: The UN kills.

In 2003, you'll recall, the US was reviled as a unilateralist cowboy because it and its coalition of the poodles waged an illegal war unauthorised by the UN against a sovereign state run by a thug regime that was no threat to anyone apart from selected ethnocultural groups within its borders, which it killed in large numbers (Kurds and Shia).

Well, Washington learned its lesson. Faced with another thug regime that's no threat to anyone apart from selected ethnocultural groups within its borders which it kills in large numbers (African Muslims and southern Christians), the unilateralist cowboy decided to go by the book. No unlawful actions here. Instead, meetings at the UN. Consultations with allies. Possible referral to the Security Council.

And as I wrote on this page in July 2004: "The problem is, by the time you've gone through the UN, everyone's dead." And as I wrote in Britain's Daily Telegraph in September 2004: "The US agreed to go the UN route and it looks like they'll have a really strongish compromise resolution ready to go about a week after the last villager's been murdered and his wife gang-raped."

Several hundred thousand corpses later Clooney is now demanding a "stronger multinational force to protect the civilians of Darfur".

Agreed. So let's get on to the details. If by "multinational" Clooney means a military intervention authorised by the UN, then he's a poseur and a fraud, and we should pay him no further heed. Meaningful UN action is never gonna happen. Sudan has at least two Security Council vetoes in its pocket: China gets 6 per cent of its oil from the country, while Russia has less obviously commercial reasons and more of a general philosophical belief in the right of sovereign states to butcher their own.

So forget a legal intervention authorised by the UN. If by "multinational" Clooney means military participation by the Sudanese regime's co-religionists, then dream on. The Arab League, as is its wont when one of its bloodier members gets a bad press, has circled the camels and chosen to confer its Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval on Khartoum by holding its most recent summit there.

So who, in the end, does "multinational action" boil down to? The same small group of nations responsible for almost any meaningful global action, from Sierra Leone to Iraq to Afghanistan to the tsunami-devastated Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia and on to East Timor and the Solomon Islands. The same core of English-speaking countries, technically multinational but distressingly unicultural and unilingual and indeed, given that most of them share the same head of state, uniregal. The US, Britain, Australia and Canada (back in the game in Afghanistan) certainly attract other partners, from the gallant Poles to the Kingdom of Tonga.

But, whatever international law has to say on the subject, the only effective intervention around the world comes from ad hoc coalitions of the willing led by the doughty musketeers of the Anglosphere. Right now who's on the ground dragging the reluctant Sudanese through their negotiations with the African Union? America's Deputy Secretary of State Bob Zoellick and Britain's International Development Secretary Hilary Benn. Sorry, George, that's as "multinational" as it's gonna get.

Clooney made an interesting point a few weeks ago. He said that "liberal" had become a dirty word in America and he'd like to change that. Fair enough. But you're never going to do so as long as your squeamishness about the projection of American power outweighs your do-gooder instincts.

The American Prospect's Mark Leon Goldberg penned an almost comically agonised piece fretting about the circumstances in which he'd be prepared to support a Bush intervention in Darfur: Who needs the Janjaweed when you're prepared to torture your own arguments the way Goldberg does? He gets to the penultimate paragraph and he's still saying stuff such as: "The question, of course, is whether the US seeks Security Council support to legitimise such airstrikes."

Well, no, that's not the question. If you think the case for intervention in Darfur depends on whether or not the Chinese guy raises his hand, sorry, you're not being serious. The good people of Darfur have been entrusted to the legitimacy of the UN for more than two years and it's killing them. In 2004, after months of expressing deep concern, grave concern, deep concern over the graves and deep grave concern over whether the graves were deep enough, Kofi Annan took decisive action and appointed a UN committee to look into what's going on. Eventually, they reported back that it's not genocide.

Thank goodness for that. Because, as yet another Kofi-appointed UN committee boldly declared, "genocide anywhere is a threat to the security of all and should never be tolerated". So fortunately what's going on in the Sudan isn't genocide. Instead, it's just hundreds of thousands of corpses who happen to be from the same ethnic group, which means the UN can go on tolerating it until everyone's dead, at which point the so-called "decent left" can support a "multinational" force under the auspices of the Arab League going in to ensure the corpses don't pollute the water supply.

What's the quintessential leftist cause? It's the one you see on a gazillion bumper stickers: Free Tibet. Every college in the US has a Free Tibet society: There's the Indiana University Students for a Free Tibet, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison Students for a Free Tibet, and the Students for a Free Tibet University of Michigan Chapter. Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet. Idealism asinertia is the hallmark of the movement.

Those of us on the Free Iraq-Free Darfur side are consistent: There are no bad reasons to clobber thug regimes, and the postmodern sovereignty beloved by the UN is strictly conditional. At some point, the Left has to decide whether it stands for anything other than self-congratulatory passivity and the fetishisation of a failed and corrupt transnationalism. As Alexander Downer put it: "Outcomes are more important than blind faith in the principles of non-intervention, sovereignty and multilateralism."

Just so. Regrettably, the Australian Foreign Minister isn't as big a star as Clooney, but I'm sure Downer wouldn't mind if Clooney wanted to appropriate it as the Clooney Doctrine. If Anglosphere action isn't multinational enough for Sudan, it might confirm the suspicion that the Left's conscience is now just some tedious shell game in which it frantically scrambles the thimbles but, whether you look under the Iraqi or Afghan or Sudanese one, you somehow never find the shrivelled pea of The Military Intervention We're Willing To Support.
""
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
if you've been watching "e.r." you'd know there is a genocide in darfur, although it isn't clear why the janjaweed are killing people (the vicitms are all observanr muslims, btw...lol), and the popular opinion among all the brave e.r. doctors there is that "george bush"(hey stevie! :brows:)) is allowing it to happen because he doesn't care about black people......

in fact, one character explained darfur by comparing it to new orleans.....


if we ever do take action,it won`t be under u.n. auspices...

i can hear the lefties now...

"guess what sudan has? ...oil! ...arabs!... is this military adventure an oil grab, or just a racist campaign?" :rolleyes: ....
 
Last edited:

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
lol- that's a funny one.

He blames the 'left' and the UN for Darfur, saying that it's all because those meanies at the UN condemned the Iraq war, so now we're going to go along with the UN in this case so as not to upset them.

That's ridiculous, but if he actually believes that shouldn't his anger go towards the admin, who supposedly in his mind is appeasing the UN?

He blames lack of action in Dafur on the UN criticizing the Iraq war?

He also somehow weaves the 'left' in there plenty of times, blaming them somehow, although those 'points' weren't particularly coherent so i'm not quite sure what he's saying there.

It takes a special skill to transfer the blame in Darfur to a party that has no majority in anything and away from the White House that has proven that they will do what they want, when they want.

If he has a problem with Darfur, take it up with the people in power, not George Clooney and the UN. Christ!
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
i think he`s saying that the u.n. is a waste...and never does ...anything..

they failed to lift a damned finger to help the doomed east timorese...the rwandans...

what`d they do in the balkans?....who did that dirty work?....take a guess..


your boy bill clinton....one of the reasons that i defend him in these threads regarding the blow job nonsense...clinton actually did some good things...he also did some stupid things...but,it goes with the territory...,

that`s why i `m not averse to defending him...do you remember the way clinton was slimed by these same whackos for bosnia?...for getting rid of that monster milosevic?.

""The President launched an unprovoked war of aggression against a small, distant state. He cynically wrapped his campaign in humanitarianism while ignoring worse slaughters elsewhere. He arrogantly assumed that foreign leaders would genuflect before him. He attacked their nation when they didn't.

How does Bill Clinton justify his war? In a recent speech at National Defense University President Clinton likened events in Kosovo to those in Nazi Germany: a "vicious, premeditated, systematic oppression fueled by religious and ethnic hatred."

This is pure cant. The administration has nothing against "vicious, premeditated, systematic oppression" if committed by allies, like Croatia and Turkey. Or if perpetrated against black Africans.(the race card...AGAINST CLINTON!!...for god`s sake,how ridiculous)

Moreover, as ugly as was the Kosovo conflict, it was no Nazi Holocaust, but a minor civil war, with casualties a fraction of those occurring in such places as Kashmir and Sri Lanka. Where real genocide results, like Rwanda, President Clinton studiously averts his gaze.(again,minimizing slaughter....so they can sit on their hands)

Once it became clear that the administration intended to effectively strip Yugoslavia of Kosovo, however, Belgrade unsurprisingly lashed out. Indeed, allied bombing turned all Kosovars--whose leaders publicly lobbied for NATO intervention-- into enemies of the Serbs""....



sound familiar?..clinton was trying to end the genocide...get rid of a dangerous dictator..

no u.n. o.k. on that one..

the new liberalism is way left of bill clinton...and it scares me....

it's official--the u.n. doesn't give a shit....

the author`s saying it`s beacuse russia and china care more about their pockets than humanity(translation=corruption)....

and that muslim states close ranks regardless of how brutal and murderous their brethren are...

it`s because it`s their modus operandi...it`s always been that way...

he`s saying that the u.n. is a joke...and that the extreme left uses the u.n. as an excuse to be pacifistic pussies.....the "EXTREME LEFT"..

and by the time u.n. gets off it`s duff,everyone is usually dead...

they`ll wait until it`s safe enough for them to enter darfur and set up their brothels....
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
Well of course he's saying the UN is worthless. Didn't he get the memo about 30 years ago? His main point is that it's the fault of the UN, and their opinion on Iraq, that we don't take action in Darfur. That makes no sense. He gives the admin a free pass when they are going along with an organization that is 'worthless' and blames it on the 'worthless' organization who opposed a previous action. 'Round and 'round in a circle, but deftly avoiding criticizing the admin when it's totally their decision on what to do.

Who cares about the UN? Seriously. And no, lack of UN approval was never any argument of mine against the Iraq occupation.


sound familiar?..clinton was trying to end the genocide...get rid of a dangerous dictator..

no u.n. o.k. on that one..

Yeah, it *sounds* familiar but the comparison to the actions is absurd. On one hand you effectively halt a genocide. Not one loss of American life. No reconstruction. No nation building.

On the other hand....well, we've been over that one before.

So while the comments from critics might be similar, the comparison is apples and oranges.

Again, our leadership can do whatever they want, so him blaming the 'left' and the UN for our own inaction is ridiculous.

Don't put me down just yet as somebody who would favor US involvement there (who the f*ck would we send? The Merchant Marines?), but whiners like this guy should point the 'blame' where it belongs, if he feels so strongly about it.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
This is what I mean, GW. He *knows* the UN will never do anything, but that's not what he's railing on about.

Meaningful UN action is never gonna happen.


This below explains his position and the gestation of his crying:


In 2003, you'll recall, the US was reviled as a unilateralist cowboy because it and its coalition of the poodles waged an illegal war unauthorised by the UN against a sovereign state run by a thug regime that was no threat to anyone apart from selected ethnocultural groups within its borders, which it killed in large numbers (Kurds and Shia).

Well, Washington learned its lesson. Faced with another thug regime that's no threat to anyone apart from selected ethnocultural groups within its borders which it kills in large numbers (African Muslims and southern Christians), the unilateralist cowboy decided to go by the book. No unlawful actions here. Instead, meetings at the UN. Consultations with allies. Possible referral to the Security Council.
 

smurphy

cartographer
Forum Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
kosar said:
It takes a special skill to transfer the blame in Darfur to a party that has no majority in anything and away from the White House that has proven that they will do what they want, when they want.
This point will never sink in. Too many neocons' brains are clogged with Hannity, Limbaugh, and Coulter rhetoric to ever see reality.
 

smurphy

cartographer
Forum Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
Where is Manson calling us to arms to save the Sudanese people? Does he not care about them as much as his beloved Shiites and Kurds? ....Oh I know, he's probably in Darfur counting mass graves - making sure they meet his standard. 400,000 would be a nice goal, but I hope he grades on a curve for this less populated region.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
i`m not railing on you guys...i`m just saying that there is a segment of the left...that regardless of the humaitarian intent...regardless of the provocation....and even regardless of the party in power....will never lift a finger ....

that`s european trait...it`s a u.n. trait.....and an extremist liberal trait....a suicidal trait..

imagine the writer in that blurb i posted accusing clinton of ignoring africa because the people are "dark"...how f-cking far out is that?....

how`s it feel?...to have hysterical ridiculous rhetoric hurled at you?

if saddam had had beaucoup nuclear weapons stockpiled up his giggy,we weren`t getting any kind of u.n. coalition to go against him...even when all the intel agreed with clinton,kerry and bush...

the same follows for genocide in darfur...and iran....nothing will ever get done if we don`t do it....

does one person doubt that iran turns out like n.korea if we continue dickering through the u.n.?...

how many times does the u.n. have to prove it`s impotent?...
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,489
168
63
Bowling Green Ky
Got to love Clooney--highest total I've seen is 70,000 projected deaths in durfar--yet he brags how he and others were responsible for pull out in Viet Nam but doesn't say shit about the 1.5 million Cambodians and Vietnamese slaughtered as a result-- and he wonders why----

"Clooney made an interesting point a few weeks ago. He said that "liberal" had become a dirty word in America"
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
Similar to the author of the article in the first post, here is a conservative railing against the 'left' on the Darfur issue. But he doesn't whine about the UN 'holding us back' and I think his points are much more cogent than the first authors ridiculous assertion that UN crying about Iraq has resulted in inaction by the US. Smurphy might like the 'then go do it yourself' theme.




None of Our Business

by Charley Reese



To George Clooney and the other Americans who demonstrated and demanded that the U.S. intervene in the Darfur region of Sudan, I have a simple and clear message: Buy yourself a gun and plenty of ammunition, and go intervene yourself.

In the 1930s, a tougher breed of Americans didn't just demonstrate. They formed the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, went to Spain and fought in the Spanish Civil War. A famous movie star, Errol Flynn, risked his life and suffered wounds carrying money through enemy lines to the loyalist forces. Of course, Flynn was no sissy. Before becoming an actor, he was a deep-water sailor and smuggler and barroom brawler par excellence. He was real man, not an image of a man.

Today's liberals are made of softer stuff. They don't want to fight or get shot at. They are too wealthy and live too comfortable a life. They want some poor American kid making $1,200 a month to go to the African desert and get killed.

It's a heck of a note when rich people can salve their conscience by sending poor kids to fight and die instead of going themselves. Granted, Clooney would have to do without his personal assistant, script, air-conditioned trailer and stunt people, but who knows, he might find real combat exhilarating.

The fighting in Darfur is not a conflict of good guy versus bad guy. It is bad guy versus bad guy. Both sides are armed. Both sides have committed atrocities. Both sides show as much sympathy and mercy for the other as a rattlesnake does for a mouse.

It is not a conflict of white versus black. Both sides are black. It is not a Muslim-versus-Christian conflict. Both sides are Muslim. It might have even started the way the old range wars started in Wyoming in the 19th century. One side is nomadic herdsmen; the other side is farmers. When farmers try to keep herds from grass and water, there is sure to be gunfire, whether in Sudan or in 19th-century Wyoming.

The conflict is, most of all, none of our business. It does not affect the United States one iota. If it goes on for 10 years, it will not affect the United States. If it is resolved tomorrow, it will not affect the United States. We have no strategic or national interests whatsoever in Sudan. If the people in Sudan wish to kill each other, that is their business, not ours.

It is past time for the American people to demand that Congress and the president stop sending American youth to die in other people's wars. The idea of using American youth as a hypocritical humanitarian police force (hypocritical because liberals are always selective in choosing their crises) is both obscene and unconstitutional. These young men and women join the armed forces to defend America, not to inject themselves into other people's local quarrels.

If George Bush sends American military forces to Sudan, Osama bin Laden will be so elated he'll dance a jig. He's already warned that Western intervention in Sudan would be another attack against Islam. Our forces would find themselves in yet another hornet's nest. And what are they going to do? Pick one side and shoot the other? Or shoot people on both sides? Whatever, our intervention will increase the human misery, not make it better.

The casualty statistics you keep hearing are unreliable, though I don't doubt they are high. As for genocide, that word has been defined so loosely you could be charged with it for shooting a burglar. We did nothing when Stalin and Mao were slaughtering millions; we did nothing when Pol Pot murdered a third to a half of the Cambodian population. We did nothing when the Ibos were wiped out in the Nigeria Civil War. What's happening in Sudan is Little League compared with all the mass murders we've ignored.

Americans ought to remember Mogadishu. The people in western Sudan are so poor, they'll kill you for your boots. But a barefooted poor man with a gun is just as lethal as a college-educated American boy. There are large pockets of human misery all over the world, and we definitely are not the world's policeman. Why American liberals have decided to get excited about Darfur, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the rebel faction has hired a public-relations firm.

At any rate, let those itching to intervene go themselves and put their bodies on the line. They have no right whatsoever to deprive an American mother of her son just so they can feel good about themselves at their next cocktail party.

These pseudo-humanitarians are enough to make you throw up.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top