prove it??????? thats speculation
You will see the reason why I feel Florida is not 2nd best on Jan. 8th, when Ohio St toys with them
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- Thread starter CWood97
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prove it??????? thats speculation
You will see the reason why I feel Florida is not 2nd best on Jan. 8th, when Ohio St toys with them
Again I don't have a dog in the race because I cannot stand either Michigan or Florida. Both teams have huge beefs, but leaving Florida out would have been a complete joke. Winning the toughest conference in football and being left out to a team that had a chance and who finished second would have been a travesty. Honestly though, I think that would have been best for those who wanted a playoff. Now the pundents will say hey we got two conf. champs. Maybe I am wrong:mj07:
Tough luck Mich., but the best thing you can do is kick the sh*t out of USC and show it on the field. Personally, I feel that Florida has a real good shot at winning this game. Should be fun
Tough luck Mich., but the best thing you can do is kick the sh*t out of USC and show it on the field. Personally, I feel that Florida has a real good shot at winning this game. Should be fun
"prove it??????? thats speculation"
Dice, it was proved. OSU is a better team than Michigan.
Is Michigan the 2nd best team the country? I think that is a very good possibility. But I am a Gator alumnus and a homer, so I have to say:
GO GATORS
Dice, it was proved. OSU is a better team than Michigan.
Is Michigan the 2nd best team the country? I think that is a very good possibility. But I am a Gator alumnus and a homer, so I have to say:
GO GATORS
you're right it was proven on that particular day, in columbus.........mich was beat.......could Mich beat Ohio St if they played again, most likley, but its a dead subject b/c they arent playing each other.........my point is #2 could be a handful of teams not b/c of their record but they could beat each other up on any given day....... ive been an advocate for a playoff system since day one of the inception of the BCS.......people talk about history and tradition, but the NCAA Div 1 playoffs would be one of the greatest events a sports fan could want.......in an 8 team playoff we would get 7 games that are must see in a 3 week span and the NC would be decided on the field with out the BS politics........what more could u want?
You are right in the fact that its hard to establish a true #2 but fact remains MICH had their shot and loss...and its not fair to ask OSU to beat MICH in two consecutive games...and in rematches everything is in the favor of the loser of the previous game...and lets say MICH did get the nod and they did beat OSU...well then the series is 1-1...they should play a third game...bottom line MICH could the second best team but you can't snuff the Gators they have more impressive wins than MICH...
MICH lost only by three points due to three unforced turnovers...
And once again, lets say Mich got the nod and beat OSU...the series would be tied...a third game would need to be played...they had their shot and loss...its time for someone else...
I do think MICH is the better team but not by much and Mich didn't win when it mattered the most...a playoff is in need...
And once again, lets say Mich got the nod and beat OSU...the series would be tied...a third game would need to be played...they had their shot and loss...its time for someone else...
I do think MICH is the better team but not by much and Mich didn't win when it mattered the most...a playoff is in need...
Same could be said for FLORIDA when they lost to Auburn, they had thier shot but blew it, if it matters so much to who you lose to........then lets not give the teams a face but instead a number........Mich lost to the #1 team on the road and Florida lost to the #9 team on the road...........the fact is. PEOPLE don't want to see a rematch.....Ironic that florida got a rematch 10 years ago........Its all politics and BS and thats all it will ever be until there is a playoff
The big problem with the polls is that people ranked teams based on an agenda and not who they thought was the better team. If Michigan was better than Florida last week, they are better than Florida this week. UCLA beating USC did not change this.
Polls aren't about arranging match ups or catering to "what the country wants to see". Polls are about ranking teams.
There is only one good solution to this, a playoff. If that can't be done before the current contract is over, then a selection committee needs to be set up a la the NCAA Hoops tourney. Coaches have inherent biases and don't get to watch the games. Who knows who the hell these Harris Poll yahoos are? Let a non-partisan selection committee decide the title game based on the strength of the teams and WATCHING/EVALUATING THE GOD DAMN GAMES.
BTW, here's a tidbit I picked up on......there were two parties against adding the 'conference champion' provision after the OU debacle. The SEC and Notre Dame.:mj07: :mj07:
Polls aren't about arranging match ups or catering to "what the country wants to see". Polls are about ranking teams.
There is only one good solution to this, a playoff. If that can't be done before the current contract is over, then a selection committee needs to be set up a la the NCAA Hoops tourney. Coaches have inherent biases and don't get to watch the games. Who knows who the hell these Harris Poll yahoos are? Let a non-partisan selection committee decide the title game based on the strength of the teams and WATCHING/EVALUATING THE GOD DAMN GAMES.
BTW, here's a tidbit I picked up on......there were two parties against adding the 'conference champion' provision after the OU debacle. The SEC and Notre Dame.:mj07: :mj07:
the biggest agenda that no one is mentioning is the fact Michigan should have dropped to #4 after their loss to OSU. the game was not nearly as close as the ESPN "analysts" tried paint it. all of this confusion would have been derailed if the voters had done the right thing in the first place and dropped mich behind sc and fla after they lost.
osc
osc
Mitch Albom on the BCS mess.......
"if the system were about giving everyone a chance, they wouldn't call it a poll, they'd call it a donkey ride."
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
"if the system were about giving everyone a chance, they wouldn't call it a poll, they'd call it a donkey ride."
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
I agree oldschooler. I am a SEC fan and Auburn alum and I'm tired of hearing all the complaining about the SEC playing weak out of conference teams. Tennessee beat Cal, we beat Washington State, Bama beat Hawaii, Georgia beat Georgia Tech, South Carolina beat Clemson, Florida beat Florida State, LSU beat Arizona, but all you ever hear about is USC beating Arkansas in the first game of the season. What else do you people want. You all say its the fault of the SEC that they don't play any tougher teams than those listed above, but I wonder how many phone calls the SEC teams get from the big boys (Ohio State, Michigan, etc.) wanting to play a regular season game. Do you actually think they would want to risk a regular season loss to an SEC power. Hell no, they want to win 11 or 12 games and get to the national championship with only a few quality wins. I'm not saying that the good teams from other conferences can't complete in the SEC because I'm sure they can, but they better come ready to play six or seven teams that could beat you if you don't bring your best game every time.
Michigan tried unsuccessfully to schedule a home and home with Auburn last year. They tried to schedule Tennessee for a home and home in 1998 after the whole "we have the biggest stadium" **** fight. Tennessee agreed to a two game set, would only play @ Tennessee.
In the last ten seasons......
Michigan has played:
@ ND - 4 times
@ Syracuse
@ Colorado
@ UCLA
@ Washington
@ Oregon
By comparison,
Florida:
The Gators haven't left the state of Florida for an OOC game since they played @ Rutgers in 1985. This epic battle with the Knights was the only time they crossed north of the Mason Dixon line for a game in the last 40 years. They did leave the southeast region one other time in the regular season, to play USC in 1982. Florida has played in 33 bowl games. Other than the Fiesta in 1986 and the Aloha in 1988, every one of their bowl games was played in the Southeast.
The great Georgia bulldogs left the state of Georgia for an OOC game once in the last 20 years, to play Clemson.
A couple more SEC "powers" for comparison to UM
Since 1996....
Auburn played:
@USC
@ Virginia
Alabama played:
@UCLA
@Oklahoma
@NC State
I'm sure the SEC gets plenty of phone calls. They'll play anyone, anywhere.......as long is its in their backyard.
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:mj07:
that is hilarious about fla....but you missed on thing...im pretty sure they made it outside the region for one other bowl game....didnt they travel to phx for the fiesta bowl (sound familiar?) to play nebraska in 95 or 96 only to lose by about 50 points?
and you say they dont leave the state?
Crickets? Ummm, where are the SEC fans? Oh wait, they have a grueling conference schedule...just ask them. SEC fan just doesn't get it. you have to venture out of your house if you're going to compare your house to everyone else's. That's a point they never get.
SEC fan: Keep banging on ND. The only reason we now know they suck is because two great teams handed them their ass. Thanks a lot for doing your part and chattering from the deep south.
- Mar 19, 2006
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worth reading or maybe not
worth reading or maybe not
Poll voters say avoiding rematch, tougher schedule helped send Florida to title game
By RICHARD ROSENBLATT, AP Sports Writer
December 4, 2006
Avoid a rematch. Stronger schedule. Conference champion.
Those were the main reasons cited Monday by many poll voters for jumping Florida over Michigan on their final ballots, setting up a Gators-Buckeyes matchup in the BCS national title game Jan. 8.
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"If you beat a team one time, why do they get the national championship if they win the second time?" said Earle Bruce, the former Ohio State coach who votes in the Harris Interactive poll and moved Florida ahead of Michigan. "I mean, they've already played one time and lost."
The Gators (12-1), who beat Arkansas to win the Southeastern Conference title on Saturday, moved from fourth to second in the final BCS standings Sunday. The Wolverines (11-1), who lost to the Buckeyes 42-39 on Nov. 18, remained third, while USC dropped to fifth from second after losing to UCLA.
"At the end of the day, Florida won its conference championship. Michigan did not," said Harris poll voter Ray Melick of The Birmingham News. "Because there's not a playoff, I think a conference champion ought to carry more weight than a conference runner-up at the BCS conference level."
Strength of schedule carried weight with voters, too.
It was such a big deal for Jim Walden, a former Washington State head coach, that he picked Florida No. 1 in the Harris poll, calling Florida's schedule "murderous."
"In my heart of hearts, I believe that neither Ohio State or Michigan could get through Florida's schedule with only one loss."
Tom Luicci, a Harris voter who bumped Florida up to second, said he made his assessment based on Florida's body of work -- not one game.
"Michigan has quality wins over Wisconsin, which played no one, and Notre Dame, which won the Commander's-in-Chief trophy (a reference to wins over the service academies) which I don't consider a major coup."
As for Florida, Luicci noted its weak nonconference schedule "but that doesn't matter when you play every good team in the SEC and have quality road wins, too."
Florida played 10 bowl teams and beat nine, including road wins against Tennessee and Florida State, neutral site wins against Georgia and Arkansas and home victories against LSU and Alabama. The Gators lone loss? At Auburn, 27-17.
"Michigan had its shot," said Harris voter Joe Biddle of The Tennessean. "If you replayed that game it would be nothing more than a Big Ten championship -- and I don't think you get mulligans in college football.
"If there's a viable alternative, I stay away from a rematch and I think Florida gives them a viable alternative."
Jerry Palm, an independent BCS analyst, estimates that 40 of the 113 voters in the Harris poll and 25 of the 62 in the USA Today coaches' poll moved the Gators past the Wolverines. The teams were tied in the computer ratings, the third component of the BCS standings.
The Associated Press media poll is not used in the BCS rankings, but 25 of the 65 voters moved Florida ahead of Michigan.
Illinois coach Ron Zook, who used to coach Florida, was among the voters in the coaches' poll who elevated the Gators. He was also the only Big Ten coach to vote Florida ahead of Michigan.
"Believe me, it's no slight to Michigan at all," Zook said. "I thought you were supposed to vote the way you feel. One vote wasn't going to make the difference. A bunch of people turned and flipped and voted Florida ahead of Michigan. For me, it was the fact that they played a 13th game."
That game, for the conference title, was one that Michigan didn't have to play. And because it was played two weeks after Michigan's season-ending loss, it meant a big Gators win was more fresh in voters' minds.
AP poll voter Michael Vega of The Boston Globe said he wasn't against a rematch but found it hard to justify one this time.
"I had to reconcile a fundamental problem with giving Michigan a chance to win the national championship when it didn't even win a conference championship," he said.
AP voter Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News said a rematch was appealing, but Florida deserves a title shot based on strength of schedule.
"Beating Arkansas, a 10-win team on a neutral field in December gave Florida that extra push," said Wilner.
And then there were those who stuck with Michigan.
"I kept Michigan second even after they lost to Ohio State, and felt nothing has changed for me since that loss for Florida to jump over them," said coaches' poll voter Brian Kelly, the former Central Michigan coach who accepted Cincinnati's job Sunday.
David Glazier, Detroit Lions senior vice president who votes in the Harris poll, said he had problems with the "politicking that people in the media did, trying to steer people away from a rematch.
He also had the novel idea of voting for the better team.
"Did I want to see a rematch? No," he said. "But my job was to vote for the top 25 teams, not who should play who, and after watching as much college football as anybody, I believed Michigan was the second-best team."
The last rematch in the national title games was in 1996, when Florida beat Florida State for the national title after losing to the Seminoles in the final game of the regular season.
South Carolina's Steve Spurrier, who coached the Gators to the '96 national championship, moved Florida past Michigan in the coaches' poll.
His reasoning?
"Heck, I'm a Gator," he said. "I went there. So I had a lot of reason to vote for them right there. It just appeared they're 12-1, the other team is 11-1, I guess that's about it."
AP National Writer Eddie Pells and AP Sports Writers Rusty Miller in Columbus, Ohio; Pete Iacobelli in Columbia, S.C.; Joe Kay in Cincinnati; Larry Lage in Detroit and Gregg Bell in Seattle contributed to this report.
Updated on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 8:16 pm EST
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note...personally don't care who plays or wins any games...the cover is all that matters..
worth reading or maybe not
Poll voters say avoiding rematch, tougher schedule helped send Florida to title game
By RICHARD ROSENBLATT, AP Sports Writer
December 4, 2006
Avoid a rematch. Stronger schedule. Conference champion.
Those were the main reasons cited Monday by many poll voters for jumping Florida over Michigan on their final ballots, setting up a Gators-Buckeyes matchup in the BCS national title game Jan. 8.
ADVERTISEMENT
"If you beat a team one time, why do they get the national championship if they win the second time?" said Earle Bruce, the former Ohio State coach who votes in the Harris Interactive poll and moved Florida ahead of Michigan. "I mean, they've already played one time and lost."
The Gators (12-1), who beat Arkansas to win the Southeastern Conference title on Saturday, moved from fourth to second in the final BCS standings Sunday. The Wolverines (11-1), who lost to the Buckeyes 42-39 on Nov. 18, remained third, while USC dropped to fifth from second after losing to UCLA.
"At the end of the day, Florida won its conference championship. Michigan did not," said Harris poll voter Ray Melick of The Birmingham News. "Because there's not a playoff, I think a conference champion ought to carry more weight than a conference runner-up at the BCS conference level."
Strength of schedule carried weight with voters, too.
It was such a big deal for Jim Walden, a former Washington State head coach, that he picked Florida No. 1 in the Harris poll, calling Florida's schedule "murderous."
"In my heart of hearts, I believe that neither Ohio State or Michigan could get through Florida's schedule with only one loss."
Tom Luicci, a Harris voter who bumped Florida up to second, said he made his assessment based on Florida's body of work -- not one game.
"Michigan has quality wins over Wisconsin, which played no one, and Notre Dame, which won the Commander's-in-Chief trophy (a reference to wins over the service academies) which I don't consider a major coup."
As for Florida, Luicci noted its weak nonconference schedule "but that doesn't matter when you play every good team in the SEC and have quality road wins, too."
Florida played 10 bowl teams and beat nine, including road wins against Tennessee and Florida State, neutral site wins against Georgia and Arkansas and home victories against LSU and Alabama. The Gators lone loss? At Auburn, 27-17.
"Michigan had its shot," said Harris voter Joe Biddle of The Tennessean. "If you replayed that game it would be nothing more than a Big Ten championship -- and I don't think you get mulligans in college football.
"If there's a viable alternative, I stay away from a rematch and I think Florida gives them a viable alternative."
Jerry Palm, an independent BCS analyst, estimates that 40 of the 113 voters in the Harris poll and 25 of the 62 in the USA Today coaches' poll moved the Gators past the Wolverines. The teams were tied in the computer ratings, the third component of the BCS standings.
The Associated Press media poll is not used in the BCS rankings, but 25 of the 65 voters moved Florida ahead of Michigan.
Illinois coach Ron Zook, who used to coach Florida, was among the voters in the coaches' poll who elevated the Gators. He was also the only Big Ten coach to vote Florida ahead of Michigan.
"Believe me, it's no slight to Michigan at all," Zook said. "I thought you were supposed to vote the way you feel. One vote wasn't going to make the difference. A bunch of people turned and flipped and voted Florida ahead of Michigan. For me, it was the fact that they played a 13th game."
That game, for the conference title, was one that Michigan didn't have to play. And because it was played two weeks after Michigan's season-ending loss, it meant a big Gators win was more fresh in voters' minds.
AP poll voter Michael Vega of The Boston Globe said he wasn't against a rematch but found it hard to justify one this time.
"I had to reconcile a fundamental problem with giving Michigan a chance to win the national championship when it didn't even win a conference championship," he said.
AP voter Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News said a rematch was appealing, but Florida deserves a title shot based on strength of schedule.
"Beating Arkansas, a 10-win team on a neutral field in December gave Florida that extra push," said Wilner.
And then there were those who stuck with Michigan.
"I kept Michigan second even after they lost to Ohio State, and felt nothing has changed for me since that loss for Florida to jump over them," said coaches' poll voter Brian Kelly, the former Central Michigan coach who accepted Cincinnati's job Sunday.
David Glazier, Detroit Lions senior vice president who votes in the Harris poll, said he had problems with the "politicking that people in the media did, trying to steer people away from a rematch.
He also had the novel idea of voting for the better team.
"Did I want to see a rematch? No," he said. "But my job was to vote for the top 25 teams, not who should play who, and after watching as much college football as anybody, I believed Michigan was the second-best team."
The last rematch in the national title games was in 1996, when Florida beat Florida State for the national title after losing to the Seminoles in the final game of the regular season.
South Carolina's Steve Spurrier, who coached the Gators to the '96 national championship, moved Florida past Michigan in the coaches' poll.
His reasoning?
"Heck, I'm a Gator," he said. "I went there. So I had a lot of reason to vote for them right there. It just appeared they're 12-1, the other team is 11-1, I guess that's about it."
AP National Writer Eddie Pells and AP Sports Writers Rusty Miller in Columbus, Ohio; Pete Iacobelli in Columbia, S.C.; Joe Kay in Cincinnati; Larry Lage in Detroit and Gregg Bell in Seattle contributed to this report.
Updated on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 8:16 pm EST
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note...personally don't care who plays or wins any games...the cover is all that matters..
I have read your posts for years, and can't understand how Mich being left out of the title game has changed you from a quality capper/ poster, to a Scott4USC-GJN type who merely belts out long winded SEC bashes. Look, we all get your point, BigTen plays tougher ooc than SEC. So? :shrug:
The bottom line is Fla is still facing Ohio St for the BCS title, and Meech is in the Rose Bowl with double revenge against USC. At least I think double revenge. I hope to hear your thoughts on each since you obviously follow the BigTen closely.
Let's get back on track here. Its about winning money by finding an edge.
GL this bowl season, and to your team in the rose bowl.
Cie, I certainly don't like being compared to Scott4 USC, you and I both know I don't roll like him.
What I cannot stand, and what has sent me on this posting tirade, is people (both on this board and in the media) categorically stating that "the best football is played in the SEC". Yes, the SEC is deep. Yes, there are some great programs in the SEC. However, it is not clearly ahead of other conferences in any level of performance over any length of time.
Further to this, I am not directing my post at you or anyone else who is reasonable about the situation. Its the AU2001's, and dvlsu's that have gotten under my skin, so I made posts like the above to put them in their place.
I am currently crunching numbers on the bowl games and will start a thread soon. I think there are some pretty good angles out there this bowl season. GL to you
