DOGS THAT BARK said:
Who said anything about Afganistan? That's a no-brainer. It's too bad we shifted our resources to a harmful, useless war in Iraq.
Are we better off now in regards to NK? No, not even close.
This will get interesting--
- Thread starter DOGS THAT BARK
- Start date
Who said anything about Afganistan? That's a no-brainer. It's too bad we shifted our resources to a harmful, useless war in Iraq.
Are we better off now in regards to NK? No, not even close.
"Some look at Iraq as breeding ground for terrorist--I prefer to think of it as killing ground of terrorist--and from look of elections there I believe it is now a breeding ground for democracy and freedom."
Breeding ground for democracy and freedom? Just because they held one election, all of a sudden they're some unstoppable force like a tornado so get out of thier way?
Bullets are still flying, bombs are going off, and cars are exploding.....the military can't control a street, cops and politicians and judges are getting assassinated and some people think this newfound democracy in Iraq is already bulletproof.
If anything this democracy is little more than a colt trying to get on his legs and stand up, and there are lions waiting for the chance to make that same colt the next meal...
If anybody is really that cocksure about the ability of the Iraqis to take over then by all means pull our forces out and watch what happens in reality. Brutal as he was, Saddam was the only glue that held the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds together, and he did that through brute force.The only glue holding Iraq together now is the American military, and whenever we run out of money to dump in that $hithole and see that the next years are going to be like the last two where we've accomplished nothing, we'll pull out and the bloody free-for-all can begin over there.
Do you expect anything to be different over there 2 weeks, two months, or two years from now?
Breeding ground for democracy and freedom? Just because they held one election, all of a sudden they're some unstoppable force like a tornado so get out of thier way?
Bullets are still flying, bombs are going off, and cars are exploding.....the military can't control a street, cops and politicians and judges are getting assassinated and some people think this newfound democracy in Iraq is already bulletproof.
If anything this democracy is little more than a colt trying to get on his legs and stand up, and there are lions waiting for the chance to make that same colt the next meal...
If anybody is really that cocksure about the ability of the Iraqis to take over then by all means pull our forces out and watch what happens in reality. Brutal as he was, Saddam was the only glue that held the Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds together, and he did that through brute force.The only glue holding Iraq together now is the American military, and whenever we run out of money to dump in that $hithole and see that the next years are going to be like the last two where we've accomplished nothing, we'll pull out and the bloody free-for-all can begin over there.
Do you expect anything to be different over there 2 weeks, two months, or two years from now?
you know...i kind of agree with marco to a certain extent.......and i`m uncomfortable with that fact...lol.....but,some points he makes are points that i`ve made myself at different times on the board...
that,saddam`s iron fist is what held iraq together...
are we condescending toward the middle east to say that they aren`t capable of stepping out of the 12th century?.....maybe....in retrospect, won`t believe that`s true,though...
even though there aren`t any democracies there,some states have become more moderate in their views...more tolerant...at least outwardly.....egypt and kuwait come to mind...
but,when you see what happens when,what turns out to be a bogus report of" koran flushing " hits the arab streets,you have to wonder out loud....."wtf?"
people die.....it looks like a scene out of "dawn of the dead"...mindless violence...
a guy in the netherlands writes an unflattering article about islam...and his throat is slit in the street....in the netherlands...they are in the process of changing their immigration policy as i write this...they are tired of the barbarism that radicals have brought to their shores...
salmon rushdie has to live under guard...24-7...
i don`t believe that this is the stuff that most muslims believe in...
it`s pretty sobering...
then,think about what happens in the u.s. when the bible is desecrated.....a crucifix........pissed on....the flag burned....
what happens in this case is that the desecrator gets a grant from the "National Endowment for the Arts"....
and that`s not an exaggeration..
this may truly be be a battle of civilizations...how can these two cultures...one that believes in the separation of church and state at it`s core(regardless of the rhetoric you hear)....and one that thrives to be a theocracy....
how can these two civilizations co-exist?....
is anybody even moderately comfortable with saddam...or the mullahs of iran having their fingers on the button?.....with them having one common goal with the murderous terrorists....the destruction of the u.s. and israel...
can we succeed in iraq?...the odds are long...but,to cut bait and run...right now....after all the water that`s gone under the bridge...with murmurings coming from the youth of iran and other middle eastern countries that they are tired of living in theocracies that are mired in the 12th century....or living under brutal dictatorships that murder hundreds of thousands of their own people because of dissent....
i think walking out and leaving the unprepared iraqi`s as lambs to the terrorist slaughter...could be the most ridiculous statement i`ve read on this board....look at the slaughter that took place after we departed viet nam....
the message that an action like that sends to the rest of the world is so harmful to our interests,it`s indescribable....
our credibility would be 10 times worse than it is now....could any ally ever trust us?....
and the critics ...the extreme left that bashes the administration at every opportunity,would stop bashing us on our iraq policy...and start bashing us for deserting the iraqi`s.....
catch 22.....
do like the french did in ww2 and capitulate....or stay the course as the british did in ww2 and at least give yourself an opportunity to succeed.....
the british were hurt badly...but they stayed the course...
if you`ve read about ww2,you have to get goosebumps when you think about the bombings that the british people endured for literally months on end...
who should we emulate?....which scenario serves our best interests?....
a no brainer.....at least for now...
that,saddam`s iron fist is what held iraq together...
are we condescending toward the middle east to say that they aren`t capable of stepping out of the 12th century?.....maybe....in retrospect, won`t believe that`s true,though...
even though there aren`t any democracies there,some states have become more moderate in their views...more tolerant...at least outwardly.....egypt and kuwait come to mind...
but,when you see what happens when,what turns out to be a bogus report of" koran flushing " hits the arab streets,you have to wonder out loud....."wtf?"
people die.....it looks like a scene out of "dawn of the dead"...mindless violence...
a guy in the netherlands writes an unflattering article about islam...and his throat is slit in the street....in the netherlands...they are in the process of changing their immigration policy as i write this...they are tired of the barbarism that radicals have brought to their shores...
salmon rushdie has to live under guard...24-7...
i don`t believe that this is the stuff that most muslims believe in...
it`s pretty sobering...
then,think about what happens in the u.s. when the bible is desecrated.....a crucifix........pissed on....the flag burned....
what happens in this case is that the desecrator gets a grant from the "National Endowment for the Arts"....
and that`s not an exaggeration..
this may truly be be a battle of civilizations...how can these two cultures...one that believes in the separation of church and state at it`s core(regardless of the rhetoric you hear)....and one that thrives to be a theocracy....
how can these two civilizations co-exist?....
is anybody even moderately comfortable with saddam...or the mullahs of iran having their fingers on the button?.....with them having one common goal with the murderous terrorists....the destruction of the u.s. and israel...
can we succeed in iraq?...the odds are long...but,to cut bait and run...right now....after all the water that`s gone under the bridge...with murmurings coming from the youth of iran and other middle eastern countries that they are tired of living in theocracies that are mired in the 12th century....or living under brutal dictatorships that murder hundreds of thousands of their own people because of dissent....
i think walking out and leaving the unprepared iraqi`s as lambs to the terrorist slaughter...could be the most ridiculous statement i`ve read on this board....look at the slaughter that took place after we departed viet nam....
the message that an action like that sends to the rest of the world is so harmful to our interests,it`s indescribable....
our credibility would be 10 times worse than it is now....could any ally ever trust us?....
and the critics ...the extreme left that bashes the administration at every opportunity,would stop bashing us on our iraq policy...and start bashing us for deserting the iraqi`s.....
catch 22.....
do like the french did in ww2 and capitulate....or stay the course as the british did in ww2 and at least give yourself an opportunity to succeed.....
the british were hurt badly...but they stayed the course...
if you`ve read about ww2,you have to get goosebumps when you think about the bombings that the british people endured for literally months on end...
who should we emulate?....which scenario serves our best interests?....
a no brainer.....at least for now...
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Over in Iraq Marco the change will be slow and costly. But what I worry about is the real cause of all this is still running around free. And I hope were ready for his next plan for our home land. We seem to forget they don't mind waiting for 8 to 10 years to do some thing big. I'm not feeling safer because we started a war in Iraq.
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after re-reading my last post,i`m gonna backtrack a bit....
it sounds like i`m condemning islam..which i absolutely am not....i didn`t mean to come off like that......kinda shot from the hip...and shot my own foot off...
not my intention...to denegrate honest,hard working,good muslim people...
they have the right to worship as they please ...certainly they don`t need my consent...
was not dissing the millions of good muslims around the world...
...wasn`t clear that i`m talking about terrorists that target civilians..not the average muslim that i believe doesn`t condone the targeting of innocents...
it sounds like i`m condemning islam..which i absolutely am not....i didn`t mean to come off like that......kinda shot from the hip...and shot my own foot off...
not my intention...to denegrate honest,hard working,good muslim people...
they have the right to worship as they please ...certainly they don`t need my consent...
was not dissing the millions of good muslims around the world...
...wasn`t clear that i`m talking about terrorists that target civilians..not the average muslim that i believe doesn`t condone the targeting of innocents...
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"I'm not feeling safer because we stated a war in Iraq."
and our troops aren't feeling any safer with the efforts of liberals and media here.
You have NYT running prison ordeal 53 days on front page--Kennedy saying Iraq was safer with Saddam running prison--now the Newsweek ordeal.--and Algazeera running with it and terrorist and other Muslum countries eating it it up.There is no question we are fighting 2 fronts- one there and one at home and from experience I can quarantee you which our troops hate most.
P.S. another one bites the dust---
NEW YORK - CBS said Wednesday it is cancelling the Wednesday edition of "60 Minutes," insisting the decision was made because of poor ratings and not last fall's ill-fated story about President Bush's military service.
and our troops aren't feeling any safer with the efforts of liberals and media here.
You have NYT running prison ordeal 53 days on front page--Kennedy saying Iraq was safer with Saddam running prison--now the Newsweek ordeal.--and Algazeera running with it and terrorist and other Muslum countries eating it it up.There is no question we are fighting 2 fronts- one there and one at home and from experience I can quarantee you which our troops hate most.
P.S. another one bites the dust---
NEW YORK - CBS said Wednesday it is cancelling the Wednesday edition of "60 Minutes," insisting the decision was made because of poor ratings and not last fall's ill-fated story about President Bush's military service.
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I'll give Weasel the same compliment he gave me a while back - "a stand up guy".
DTB - I don't think you give our soldiers enough credit. I doubt they are phazed at all by liberals back hiome - especially a douche like Ted Kennedy. They have much more important things on their mind.
The hate from islamists is there - regardless of the "elite liberal media". ...And if we didn't want any flack from Abu Grhaib - well, we should have put proficient ethical officers there instead of sadistic morons and mental retards. Military justice is military justice - it's not dictated by the media anyway.
We assumed responsibilities when we invaded. We can't whine about how hard it is now. We knew about Aljezeera and knew there were plenty of people in the States against the war. Shouldn't be anything surprising or outrageous about any of this. We have to suck it up, be ethical, and move on. If anyone is surprised - well then I guess we were completely unprepared for this war.
This idea that there's a war at home is ridiculous. How can Americans expressing their views (basically being a democracy) - be a war. Kind of a Catch 22 if that's the case.
DTB - I don't think you give our soldiers enough credit. I doubt they are phazed at all by liberals back hiome - especially a douche like Ted Kennedy. They have much more important things on their mind.
The hate from islamists is there - regardless of the "elite liberal media". ...And if we didn't want any flack from Abu Grhaib - well, we should have put proficient ethical officers there instead of sadistic morons and mental retards. Military justice is military justice - it's not dictated by the media anyway.
We assumed responsibilities when we invaded. We can't whine about how hard it is now. We knew about Aljezeera and knew there were plenty of people in the States against the war. Shouldn't be anything surprising or outrageous about any of this. We have to suck it up, be ethical, and move on. If anyone is surprised - well then I guess we were completely unprepared for this war.
This idea that there's a war at home is ridiculous. How can Americans expressing their views (basically being a democracy) - be a war. Kind of a Catch 22 if that's the case.
