......should have took all the pitches so he could let Castillo have one more chance to get the hit streak, instead he swings and hits a sacrifice fly. Yah, they got the win, but it's not like they are in a pennant race. Just because he's a veteran, he thinks he is bigger than the hit streak, what a moron. If it wasn't Tim Raines and just some other young player, I bet the team would be questioning it. But like I said, Oh woopie dooo, it's Tim Raines, he gets to do whatever he wants.....what a greedy idiot.
Tim Raines the greedy idiot
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First, according to the article I read, Raines did ask Torborg what he should do. Here's an excerpt:
Raines could have guaranteed Castillo a fifth plate appearance by not swinging the bat -- taking either a walk or a strikeout. He even asked Torborg what he should do.
"Tim Raines asked me before he went up there if he wanted me to bunt, and I said 'Shoot, no, win the game here. We can't mess around. We're going to be out of players.' And he followed instructions,'' Torborg said.
While I would have liked to see Castillo get another at-bat, I think they did the right thing. I'd have to question the integrity of the game if a player doesn't make a real effort swinging the bat in this situation. Otherwise, where does one draw the line?
Hypothetically, let's say Bonds was still at 70 home runs in the final game of the season last year. And let's say the Giants were up a run in the 9th inning with Bonds slated to bat in the bottom of the 9th if the Dodgers tied it up (I don't even recall what happened in the final game -- this is just hypothetical). Should the Giants pitcher just walk the first batter, then throw 3 wild pitches so he can score, allowing Bonds to get at least one more at-bat?
When Strahan broke the sack record in the NFL last year, there was a lot of controversy as to whether Favre and the offensive lineman let Strahan get the record late in the game.
I think this is a very dangerous line for sports in general -- a line they shouldn't cross.
Raines could have guaranteed Castillo a fifth plate appearance by not swinging the bat -- taking either a walk or a strikeout. He even asked Torborg what he should do.
"Tim Raines asked me before he went up there if he wanted me to bunt, and I said 'Shoot, no, win the game here. We can't mess around. We're going to be out of players.' And he followed instructions,'' Torborg said.
While I would have liked to see Castillo get another at-bat, I think they did the right thing. I'd have to question the integrity of the game if a player doesn't make a real effort swinging the bat in this situation. Otherwise, where does one draw the line?
Hypothetically, let's say Bonds was still at 70 home runs in the final game of the season last year. And let's say the Giants were up a run in the 9th inning with Bonds slated to bat in the bottom of the 9th if the Dodgers tied it up (I don't even recall what happened in the final game -- this is just hypothetical). Should the Giants pitcher just walk the first batter, then throw 3 wild pitches so he can score, allowing Bonds to get at least one more at-bat?
When Strahan broke the sack record in the NFL last year, there was a lot of controversy as to whether Favre and the offensive lineman let Strahan get the record late in the game.
I think this is a very dangerous line for sports in general -- a line they shouldn't cross.
I assume, since bonds has 70, and it's his last chance to get 71, that means it must be the last regular season game......okay, I say let him have another chance and throw the wild pitches to let dodgers tie the game IF the giants don't need that game to make the playoffs, however, if they need that game to make the playoffs, I say don't let bonds get a chance at 71. All depends what position they are in the race. Florida ain't neck and neck on top of the division, so Castillo should have gotten another chance.
For the strahan case, Bret Favre didn't even make him earn it, but for Castillo, even if he was given another chance, he would still have to earn it at the plate by getting the base hit.
For the strahan case, Bret Favre didn't even make him earn it, but for Castillo, even if he was given another chance, he would still have to earn it at the plate by getting the base hit.
I think Tim Raines hardly qualifies as a greedy idiot. You go out there and win the game every way you can. It was a shame to see such a great streak come to an end. Picasso was on point about Raines asking the skipper about the bunt, so I think your opinion is without much ammunition.
And yes the Marlins are in a pennant race. They are only 5.5 out of first in the East and even though the Braves are on fire, that size of a lead is by no means insurmountable, and have a realistic chance at the wildcard considering that the other teams that are in this situation have winning pct of
.534 Marlins
.534 Montreal
.528 Cincy
.569 Giants
.616 Arizona/LA are tied for first but one of those teams is gonna start to slide.
And yes the Marlins are in a pennant race. They are only 5.5 out of first in the East and even though the Braves are on fire, that size of a lead is by no means insurmountable, and have a realistic chance at the wildcard considering that the other teams that are in this situation have winning pct of
.534 Marlins
.534 Montreal
.528 Cincy
.569 Giants
.616 Arizona/LA are tied for first but one of those teams is gonna start to slide.
Yah, 5.5 games out of first with a month to go, then, but it's not even all star break yet, plenty more time to catch up.
Bottom line you play to win. That game could cost them down the road. No wonder why you don't have a bank roll
Marlins out of it??? Pass up a chance to win???? Place the goals of one man higher than the entire team???
Great post I enjoy the comedy.
Great post I enjoy the comedy.
Seems like they did the right thing to me.........including Torborg teaching the youngsters on the team about team concept.
Record would be tarnished if it were achieved like that.Do you think Dimaggios teammates put his record before the team?
just my bong bowl worth of 2 cents
paper said toberg told raines to swing , fans were yelling walk walk, raines asked again torberg again said SWING!!!!!
TORBERG SAID WERE PLAYEN FOR A TEAM WIN NOT FOR RECORDS
no that coming from the miami herald
puff puff
paper said toberg told raines to swing , fans were yelling walk walk, raines asked again torberg again said SWING!!!!!
TORBERG SAID WERE PLAYEN FOR A TEAM WIN NOT FOR RECORDS
no that coming from the miami herald
puff puff
greedy idiot? a greedy idiot would do something like put his entire account on a -500 ML and lose!-- i have had the pleasure of meeting raines on several occasions and can tell you first hand that he is nothing but a class act who respects the game of baseball very much--
if you really think raines is greedy, then you dont know much about how this game is played and probably never will- this game is about wins and losses, not stats.
if you really think raines is greedy, then you dont know much about how this game is played and probably never will- this game is about wins and losses, not stats.
Even though most baseball players are indeed greedy idiots, what Tim Raines did was absolutely the right thing to do. The name of any game is to WIN. Screw any personal feats, as the saying goes, "there is no I in team." Besides, it seems to me that Luis Castillo had four chances to extend the streak before the ninth inning.
Of course Raines did the right thing. Anybody that has followed this has seen Castillo put himself above the team several times already by swinging at 3-0 pitches, even swinging at obviously balls with 3 balls when a walk would benefit the team. This guy was lucky that Raines even had the class to ask his manager what he should do. He did the right thing.
Tigers: Castillo would have been walked
By MARK LONG
AP Sports Writer
June 23, 2002
MIAMI (AP) -- The Detroit Tigers weren't going to give Luis Castillo another chance to extend
his 35-game hitting streak. Castillo went 0-for-4 and was left on deck when the Florida Marlins
finished off a four-run, ninth-inning rally to
beat the Tigers 5-4 Saturday night.
Disheartened by the end of the streak,
Castillo had a blank stare on his face as his
teammates celebrated the victory. He might
be relieved to know that a fifth plate
appearance wouldn't have changed
anything.
Detroit manager Luis Pujols said Sunday
that he and bench coach Felipe Alou had
agreed to intentionally walk Castillo and
take their chances against Eric Owens.
``Felipe and I said we were going to look bad in our country, but we had to walk him,'' said
Pujols, who like Castillo and Alou is from the Dominican Republic.
But with one out and Andy Fox on third, pinch-hitter Tim Raines lifted a fly ball to center. Fox
tagged and easily beat Wendell Magee's throw home for the game-winner.
Castillo's streak was the longest since Paul Molitor's 39-gamer in 1987, which ended in similar
fashion. Molitor was left on deck when Rick Manning hit a game-winning RBI single in the 10th
inning to give the Milwaukee Brewers a 1-0 victory over Cleveland.
Castillo's streak, tied for the 10th-longest in baseball history, stands as the longest by a Latin
player and the longest by a second baseman.
Only nine players have had longer streaks, including just two since 1950 -- Pete Rose (44) in
1978 and Molitor. Joe DiMaggio set the record of 56 games in 1941.
Castillo was one of the last Marlins to leave the stadium following the end of his streak.
He was one of the first ones to arrive Sunday -- still disappointed with the streak's end but
relieved that the pressures of chasing DiMaggio's mark are over.
``I want to forget about everything,'' Castillo said. ``I know now I'm going to be more relaxed.''
Castillo was out of the starting lineup for the series finale against Detroit, given the day off after
briefly capturing the nation's attention with the longest hitting streak in 15 years.
``Nobody can imagine, unless you're in that position, the pressure,'' manager Jeff Torborg said.
When Castillo got home Saturday night, he refused to watch television, wanting to avoid replays
of the streak's end. He didn't sleep well, either. And he was still down a day later.
``I like seeing the fans like that,'' he said, referring to the standing ovations before each at-bat.
``They wanted to see it keep going. I wanted to do everything I could to make the fans happy.''
Castillo has always had high expectations for himself. This is the same player who tried to fine
himself two years ago after failing to put down a sacrifice bunt. After the game against Cincinnati,
Castillo grabbed a fistful of money from his locker, walked into manager John Boles' office and
threw the cash on the desk.
Castillo had two hits and three stolen bases in the game, but none of that mattered. He wanted to
pay for the botched bunt, but Boles refused to take the money.
He put even more pressure on himself during the streak. He said it really started to build when
the streak reached the mid-20s. He was having trouble sleeping, thinking so much about the
upcoming game.
``I couldn't wait to get to the ballpark,'' he said.
Now he can't wait to start another streak. This time, he has a better appreciation of how difficult
it would be to match DiMaggio's mark.
``I don't know how he did it,'' Castillo said.
....................................................................................................................
He did it with so much luck, along with his skill, it will almost certainly never be repeated.
DiMaggio's record is so vastly out of normal statistical variance (see how far back #2 is compared to any other record), I can state, with a confidence one normally can't in these things, that we won't live to see it matched.
By MARK LONG
AP Sports Writer
June 23, 2002
MIAMI (AP) -- The Detroit Tigers weren't going to give Luis Castillo another chance to extend
his 35-game hitting streak. Castillo went 0-for-4 and was left on deck when the Florida Marlins
finished off a four-run, ninth-inning rally to
beat the Tigers 5-4 Saturday night.
Disheartened by the end of the streak,
Castillo had a blank stare on his face as his
teammates celebrated the victory. He might
be relieved to know that a fifth plate
appearance wouldn't have changed
anything.
Detroit manager Luis Pujols said Sunday
that he and bench coach Felipe Alou had
agreed to intentionally walk Castillo and
take their chances against Eric Owens.
``Felipe and I said we were going to look bad in our country, but we had to walk him,'' said
Pujols, who like Castillo and Alou is from the Dominican Republic.
But with one out and Andy Fox on third, pinch-hitter Tim Raines lifted a fly ball to center. Fox
tagged and easily beat Wendell Magee's throw home for the game-winner.
Castillo's streak was the longest since Paul Molitor's 39-gamer in 1987, which ended in similar
fashion. Molitor was left on deck when Rick Manning hit a game-winning RBI single in the 10th
inning to give the Milwaukee Brewers a 1-0 victory over Cleveland.
Castillo's streak, tied for the 10th-longest in baseball history, stands as the longest by a Latin
player and the longest by a second baseman.
Only nine players have had longer streaks, including just two since 1950 -- Pete Rose (44) in
1978 and Molitor. Joe DiMaggio set the record of 56 games in 1941.
Castillo was one of the last Marlins to leave the stadium following the end of his streak.
He was one of the first ones to arrive Sunday -- still disappointed with the streak's end but
relieved that the pressures of chasing DiMaggio's mark are over.
``I want to forget about everything,'' Castillo said. ``I know now I'm going to be more relaxed.''
Castillo was out of the starting lineup for the series finale against Detroit, given the day off after
briefly capturing the nation's attention with the longest hitting streak in 15 years.
``Nobody can imagine, unless you're in that position, the pressure,'' manager Jeff Torborg said.
When Castillo got home Saturday night, he refused to watch television, wanting to avoid replays
of the streak's end. He didn't sleep well, either. And he was still down a day later.
``I like seeing the fans like that,'' he said, referring to the standing ovations before each at-bat.
``They wanted to see it keep going. I wanted to do everything I could to make the fans happy.''
Castillo has always had high expectations for himself. This is the same player who tried to fine
himself two years ago after failing to put down a sacrifice bunt. After the game against Cincinnati,
Castillo grabbed a fistful of money from his locker, walked into manager John Boles' office and
threw the cash on the desk.
Castillo had two hits and three stolen bases in the game, but none of that mattered. He wanted to
pay for the botched bunt, but Boles refused to take the money.
He put even more pressure on himself during the streak. He said it really started to build when
the streak reached the mid-20s. He was having trouble sleeping, thinking so much about the
upcoming game.
``I couldn't wait to get to the ballpark,'' he said.
Now he can't wait to start another streak. This time, he has a better appreciation of how difficult
it would be to match DiMaggio's mark.
``I don't know how he did it,'' Castillo said.
....................................................................................................................
He did it with so much luck, along with his skill, it will almost certainly never be repeated.
DiMaggio's record is so vastly out of normal statistical variance (see how far back #2 is compared to any other record), I can state, with a confidence one normally can't in these things, that we won't live to see it matched.
Now that Castillo lost his hit streak, he won't be as motivated to keep hitting at this high pace, so that will cost them several games down the line, which is worse than just one game, which they still could have won if Raines just took the pitches and let Castillo have one more chance. This game is about motivation and psychology, too.
Have you ever played organized sports before? Most of the stuff you say here is pretty dumb, but your last post really takes the cake. It is a 162 game season and I am more than sure the kid will get over it. Not only that, but there are 8 other guys in the lineup that can help the Marlins win.
Not be motivated to hit at a high pace?
Sure he can go out there and dog it and get sent down to AAA. That sounds like motivation to me. I don't know of one guy that steps in the batters box and says to himself before an at bat:
"I don't feel like getting on base, because I am just not motivated. I am going to take a half-assed swing because I am not motivated. Now that my 35 game hitting streak is over I don't need to produce because I am not motivated."
Let Tim Raines take pitches. What if the reliever threw Raines 3 straight strikes? Looking at strike 3 with runners on the corners and less than 2 out is beyond taboo---especially if you are a pinch hitter. Then Castillo comes up with 2 outs. If he does not get the hit which the law of averages says he won't: Marlins lose the game and are 6.5 back of the Braves instead of 5.5 back and then imagine what kind of mess would ensue. That would be a real sonof a bitch if they missed a wildcard berth by 1 game or even winning their division by 1 game in which Tim Raines "The Greedy Idiot" did what he was supposed to do and help the team win, decided to look at strike 3 or bunt into a double play or something so the Marlins could lose.
I am not going to say anything else about you, because I don't want to be banned. I hope for your sake that you never wager on a game again. Put that money to good use and drop it into the collection plate at church or feed a hungry person.
Not be motivated to hit at a high pace?
Sure he can go out there and dog it and get sent down to AAA. That sounds like motivation to me. I don't know of one guy that steps in the batters box and says to himself before an at bat:
"I don't feel like getting on base, because I am just not motivated. I am going to take a half-assed swing because I am not motivated. Now that my 35 game hitting streak is over I don't need to produce because I am not motivated."
Let Tim Raines take pitches. What if the reliever threw Raines 3 straight strikes? Looking at strike 3 with runners on the corners and less than 2 out is beyond taboo---especially if you are a pinch hitter. Then Castillo comes up with 2 outs. If he does not get the hit which the law of averages says he won't: Marlins lose the game and are 6.5 back of the Braves instead of 5.5 back and then imagine what kind of mess would ensue. That would be a real sonof a bitch if they missed a wildcard berth by 1 game or even winning their division by 1 game in which Tim Raines "The Greedy Idiot" did what he was supposed to do and help the team win, decided to look at strike 3 or bunt into a double play or something so the Marlins could lose.
I am not going to say anything else about you, because I don't want to be banned. I hope for your sake that you never wager on a game again. Put that money to good use and drop it into the collection plate at church or feed a hungry person.
Speaking of Greedy Idiots
Speaking of Greedy Idiots
I remember when Pete Rose's streak ended. He struck out in his final at bat. He was all over the pitcher who I can't remember(Terry Forster?) for striking him out with a curveball instead of challenging him with a fastball. In other words the pitcher had the audacity to try to get him out instead of throwing the ball down the middle. These things usually end in some sort of controversy, real or imagined, because of the intense coverage. If not this, it may have become 7 or 8 games longer. Then maybe a scorer's decision or an umpire calling a strike, that we would have seen the replay of, about 100 times. Just remember, this guy had to hit in another 22 straight games to beat DiMaggio, and the media attention was just starting to build. If he was having trouble sleeping now.........
Speaking of Greedy Idiots
I remember when Pete Rose's streak ended. He struck out in his final at bat. He was all over the pitcher who I can't remember(Terry Forster?) for striking him out with a curveball instead of challenging him with a fastball. In other words the pitcher had the audacity to try to get him out instead of throwing the ball down the middle. These things usually end in some sort of controversy, real or imagined, because of the intense coverage. If not this, it may have become 7 or 8 games longer. Then maybe a scorer's decision or an umpire calling a strike, that we would have seen the replay of, about 100 times. Just remember, this guy had to hit in another 22 straight games to beat DiMaggio, and the media attention was just starting to build. If he was having trouble sleeping now.........
Going entirely from memory here, but I think the pitcher who ended Rose's streak was Gene Garber. I vaguely recall Rose being critical of Garber for being excited over ending the streak.
GREEDY IDIOT??
GREEDY IDIOT??
You have got to be kidding me! I am alittle partial to "Rock" due to he was the one who showed me the aspects of turning a double play and playing hitters ...BUT...all the talk I hear in here of people saying hes not a team player and hes just out to play for himself and he doesnt move runners up in scoring position andtries to hit everything out of the park cause if he hits over 35 Hrs he gets a bonus...yada yada yada...its a team game and yes you care of personal accomplishments but in doing so they are done so to get wins and not that Fla is winning its div nor considered the team to beat...You play to win, and if you dont produce U dont play. UR here to win games and if by chance the records come into play then wonderful and U dont adjust UR turn at bat when the outcome of the game relys on it. Raines did the right thing it wasnt like the opportunity wasnt there as he went 0-4 in the game. Baseball is an individual game but A line must be drawn when U make it a selfish game...GL guys
GREEDY IDIOT??
You have got to be kidding me! I am alittle partial to "Rock" due to he was the one who showed me the aspects of turning a double play and playing hitters ...BUT...all the talk I hear in here of people saying hes not a team player and hes just out to play for himself and he doesnt move runners up in scoring position andtries to hit everything out of the park cause if he hits over 35 Hrs he gets a bonus...yada yada yada...its a team game and yes you care of personal accomplishments but in doing so they are done so to get wins and not that Fla is winning its div nor considered the team to beat...You play to win, and if you dont produce U dont play. UR here to win games and if by chance the records come into play then wonderful and U dont adjust UR turn at bat when the outcome of the game relys on it. Raines did the right thing it wasnt like the opportunity wasnt there as he went 0-4 in the game. Baseball is an individual game but A line must be drawn when U make it a selfish game...GL guys
