Titus 2:11-14

rusty

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Slavery and Sonship

Jesus replied, ?I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.?
?John 8:34-36, NIV

Notice that Jesus has the slave living in the house, albeit temporarily. We normally think of slaves living in shacks out back. This points out a cultural difference between us and the New Testament.

The New Testament talks a lot about being a faithful slave of Jesus Christ and about being, through Jesus? grace, an adopted son of God. It sounds as if the New Testament is mixing metaphors, so let me explain.

First off, the Greco-Roman institution of slavery was quite a different institution from what you might think, especially if your knowledge of slavery is derived mainly from American history before 1865. The events in the New Testament took place 1,800 years before then and in a completely different part of the world.

In America, a person entered slavery by being kidnapped in Africa and shipped, chained to the deck of a ship, across an ocean. Upon arrival in America, the slaves who survived were carefully sorted out so that they had no language in common with each other, except what broken English they picked up from their taskmasters. This made rebellion impossible until their spirits were broken. They were forced into hard labor under conditions that are considered unfit for animals today, and in many situations they were used for sexual purposes and prohibited from forming family units. In the beginning, some slaves were educated and were used as tutors of children, but as the social implications were realized, that was changed. In my state, it became a criminal offense to teach a slave to read and write. Since slaves were also a different race from free people, so it was possible for fallacies of racial inferiority to arise, which made the abolition of slavery a difficult process that has had social ramifications that have lasted until the present day.

Some slaves were freed for meritorious service or because their owners had second thoughts about the institution. In fact, long before the Civil War there was a local slave owner in Virginia who freed over 700 slaves after he became convinced that slavery was morally wrong. According to the Washington Post, that episode in history was deliberately obscured by biased local historians who felt the incident was ill-befitting the dignity of our state. It was only recently discovered.

In the late twentieth century, the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia was the grandson of a slave, so we?ve come a long way since then.

If this is your picture of slavery, it is accurate for the United States of the nineteenth century, but it is not a good picture of slavery in the world of the New Testament.

Roman slavery corresponded most closely to contract employment in our day. Slaves were hard laborers, educators, personal advisors; they filled all occupational niches. Sometimes people sold themselves into slavery in order to pay off debts (this situation is depicted in the New Testament), and sometimes people saved up money to buy their own freedom (Paul commended slaves who did this).

Slaves were legally part of the family, although on a secondary level. The law required masters to provide their slaves with food, clothing, and shelter. There were legal penalties for mistreating slaves (although we might think them inadequate, they did exist). We think of slaves living in leaky shacks in the fields, but in Roman days, slaves lived in the house with the family, but not permanently, because if the master died, the family remained, but the slaves had to go. If a master fell on financial hard times, he had to sell or free the slaves; and if he freed the slaves, he was legally responsible to make sure that they could make a go of it in the world. A slave who had spent his whole life tutoring people in philosophy might need to be taught the realities of the marketplace and be trained in a trade, for example.

There were incidents of slave rebellions for better working conditions, there were incidents where slaves begged not to be freed, there were incidents when slaves defended their masters the same way you or I might defend our employers so that we can keep our jobs. The New Testament epistle to Philemon is interesting in this context. In many cases, if a slave were a trusted friend and companion and had a good sense for business, he would be adopted as a son, because under the legal system, sons inherently possessed the power of attorney of their fathers and could conduct business on their behalf. Adopting a capable slave as your son was a quick but expensive way of acquiring a good and loyal business manager, and it was by no means an uncommon event.

If a master died, the slaves left the household, as I stated above, but as you can tell from some of Jesus? other parables in which the slaves plotted to kill the son for his inheritance, slaves had rights at probate time.

So here?s what we mean by slaves and sons in the New Testament:

We are creatures of God who have sold ourselves, like so many football players, into life-time contracts to serve sin. Some of us did this knowingly but foolishly, others of us did this without realizing what we were getting into. We were deceived. (In this mess, Satan is not our master, just the fast-talker who persuaded us to do it. Satan is a liar who has no legitimate claim to anything.)

Jesus sees this, takes pity on us, and purchases us with His blood. That is to say, He buys our life-time contracts by paying the penalty of sin (that is death) not to Satan, but to the Law (according to Hebrews). We were slaves to sin, not Satan, however much he might flatter himself otherwise.

Here?s another way of looking at it: Suppose Jesus owns an football franchise, but He doesn?t have a team yet. He notices that another team is suffering under very bad conditions and they?re going nowhere fast. The players are all under contract to an owner who cannot provide for them properly, but they aren?t free to leave, because of their contracts. So Jesus, moved by compassion, makes a big sacrifice and risks everything to buy their contracts. This disposes of the inept owner, but it doesn?t make the football players into free agents! No, if Jesus bought their contracts, their obligations are merely shifted from their old owner to their new owner! Then, in an act of further mercy, Jesus makes them all co-owners of the team! They become the first player-owned team in the football league, but Jesus retains the controlling interest. So the players are employees and owners at the same time.

In the same way, Jesus found us as slaves to sin; He bought us, which made us His slaves. Then He caused us to be adopted as sons of God. That means that we become God?s business agents in this world; we are each given a distributorship of God?s love, grace, and providence in this world. We are the instruments through which God will answer people?s prayers. But Jesus retains the controlling interest, so we are slaves and sons at the same time.

Jesus bought us, which made us His slaves, then He adopted us into His family. Therefore we remain in His household forever. So when Jesus sets us free, we are free indeed!

So the metaphor isn?t really mixed at all, viewed from the first century. We can glory in the fact that we are sons, but it is probably more strategic to be grateful for the sonship, but to work as if we were only slaves, so that our service will please our Benefactor. I doubt there is much reward for the adopted sons of God who take up a playboy life and live off of room service! This appears to be the tack that the apostles took, counting themselves slaves, while proclaiming our sonship!

This is a far cry from the old sacrificial system, which set no one free from sin; it just sort of hosed off the muck from time to time.
So what about us daughters?

The New Testament is concerned with the legal status of sons, not their anatomy. That is why Paul refers to female believers as sons of God in Galatians 3:26-29. He means ?son? in the legal sense and not the biological sense. In the legal world in which Paul lived, if he had said ?you are all sons and daughters of God,? he would have been giving the women an inferior status.
 

bleedingpurple

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Another reason I can not trust religion is because the people who teach it (pastors, priests) can not be trusted.. I do not know how anyone could trust to leave his/her children alone with them.,. I know it has just been a few but enough to make it skeptical. Every major city around my area is finding priests or pastors who have molested children. Makes me sick..
 

Chadman

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Got it. Jesus had slaves, everybody back then were cool having slaves, some allowed themselves to be owned to pay off debt. And, everything Jesus did or said to do was Gospel, which makes it right. I get where you're coming from. I don't agree with the fuzzy areas about degrees of slavery, but that's just me. I'll probably never get that, and if I don't buy in to everything that's in the bible, I'm not worthy of understanding. I get that too, from your perspective.

I like that one thing. If I was the slave of the house, I'd try to work on the son, because if the son set me free, I'd be free. I'll bet that caused some arguments around the house.
 

rusty

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Got it. Jesus had slaves, everybody back then were cool having slaves, some allowed themselves to be owned to pay off debt. And, everything Jesus did or said to do was Gospel, which makes it right. I get where you're coming from. I don't agree with the fuzzy areas about degrees of slavery, but that's just me. I'll probably never get that, and if I don't buy in to everything that's in the bible, I'm not worthy of understanding. I get that too, from your perspective.

I like that one thing. If I was the slave of the house, I'd try to work on the son, because if the son set me free, I'd be free. I'll bet that caused some arguments around the house.

Geez,Im just clarifying the times back them.Jesus had slaves????
 

bleedingpurple

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Got it. Jesus had slaves, everybody back then were cool having slaves, some allowed themselves to be owned to pay off debt. And, everything Jesus did or said to do was Gospel, which makes it right. I get where you're coming from. I don't agree with the fuzzy areas about degrees of slavery, but that's just me. I'll probably never get that, and if I don't buy in to everything that's in the bible, I'm not worthy of understanding. I get that too, from your perspective.

I like that one thing. If I was the slave of the house, I'd try to work on the son, because if the son set me free, I'd be free. I'll bet that caused some arguments around the house.

I just think it is amazing how white bible thumping biiggots can justify slavery because it was fine by Jesus.. :facepalm:
 

Chadman

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Geez,Im just clarifying the times back them.Jesus had slaves????

According to your scripture, Jesus bought us all with his commitment, thus making all of us his slaves. In that respect, he was the largest slaveholder of all, but not a sticking point for me - I realize what you think - that there are degrees of slavery, and a difference in some respects, but slaves are slaves if they are owned, aren't they? Old, new, whatever testaments and timeframes?

I was referring (again) to your scripture when I posted that: "Notice that Jesus has the slave living in the house, albeit temporarily." I guess since it was temporary and he let the slave live in the house for little while, that was ok. Like mentioned above, that was considered the good kind of slavery, I guess.
 

Duff Miver

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According to your scripture, Jesus bought us all with his commitment, thus making all of us his slaves. In that respect, he was the largest slaveholder of all, but not a sticking point for me - I realize what you think - that there are degrees of slavery, and a difference in some respects, but slaves are slaves if they are owned, aren't they? Old, new, whatever testaments and timeframes?

I was referring (again) to your scripture when I posted that: "Notice that Jesus has the slave living in the house, albeit temporarily." I guess since it was temporary and he let the slave live in the house for little while, that was ok. Like mentioned above, that was considered the good kind of slavery, I guess.

The Chinese often let their prize pigs live in the house before they slaughter them.
 

rusty

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According to your scripture, Jesus bought us all with his commitment, thus making all of us his slaves. In that respect, he was the largest slaveholder of all, but not a sticking point for me - I realize what you think - that there are degrees of slavery, and a difference in some respects, but slaves are slaves if they are owned, aren't they? Old, new, whatever testaments and timeframes?

I was referring (again) to your scripture when I posted that: "Notice that Jesus has the slave living in the house, albeit temporarily." I guess since it was temporary and he let the slave live in the house for little while, that was ok. Like mentioned above, that was considered the good kind of slavery, I guess.

Chad again your confused.In Jesus Parables sometimes he used the slaves for teaching.In fact they were parables not really his owned slaves.I hope this helps..
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Serious question here for Rusty.

Did you used to be a teacher?

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rusty

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Serious question here for Rusty.

Did you used to be a teacher?

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Its plain to see why this made news headlines.He should of been fired right away.Why he still has his job is sad.It's unfortunate that it happened what can I say.More needs to be done to stop racial discriminating.No argument here.
 

Chadman

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Yeah, Rusty, I'm the one that's confused. I am confused that people can put their blind trust in a document with questionable origins and mixed messages throughout it, and can wish away most everything that happens to them, good or bad, because a higher deity has planned out everything for them. But, that's just my confusion. I believe you talked about personal responsibility in another thread, which I think applies somewhat.

I am now checking out of the religious discussion, because I've always thought religion should be a personal and private thing, and I have my own personal form of religion. It starts and ends with how I think about myself, how I should act and how I think and treat other people. It's worked for me for a very long time, and hopefully will for a lot longer. For the record - since I know it matters to you - I have been saved and baptized, and talk to a higher power all the time. I usually joke with him, because I think he would appreciate that, but I'm sure that's a gray area for you.

The only reason I've talked about it at all is when you start judging and preaching about the religious right and wrong, under the guise of teaching us what is right and wrong. The title of this thread, and your post here is the illustration. You don't preach, and I won't have any reason to upset you and question you about your preaching. Which I'm glad you find helpful, by the way - we all need faith about something these days. Your God be with you.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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Sure,

Here is a little prep. for yeah.Notice at that time slavery is not an issue.It also is not a black and white issue.

:mj07::mj07::mj07:

Facts and knowledge weren't an issue either when this book of contradictions was penned. It's the Word of the Lord until you point out some of its horrific passages....then it is just an inspired work.....created by people that didn't know shit from shinola.

Ever notice how people get really pissed when you ask them pointed questions about their beliefs? Nobody wants to admit that they truly believe this crap, so it is taboo to ask if they really believe there is a man in the sky that created everything and that we are all descendants of Adam and Eve. It really sucks to have someone point out you believe nonsense, so we aren't allowed to do so. Ridiculous.
 

THE KOD

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Joys of Muslim Women by Nonie Darwish

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child, consummating the marriage by 9. The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.

Even though a woman is abused, she can not obtain a divorce. To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and the man does not have to say why he has beaten her. The husband is permitted to have 4 wives and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion.

The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman. In the Western World ( America ) Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete control of her. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to the Shariah law. By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a slave under Shariah Law.

Ripping the West in Two.

Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two. She recently authored the book, Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law.
Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel. He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza . When he died, he was considered a "shahid," a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society. But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television. In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping Sharia law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.
For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose Sharia on the world. If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be subjugated or killed in this world. Peace and prosperity for one's children is not as important as assuring that Islamic law rules everywhere in the Middle East and eventually in the world. While Westerners tend to think that all religions encourage some form of the golden rule, Sharia teaches two systems of ethics - one for Muslims and another for non-Muslims. Building on tribal practices of the seventh century, Sharia encourages the side of humanity that wants to take from and subjugate others.

While Westerners tend to think in terms of religious people developing a personal understanding of and relationship with God, Sharia advocates executing people who ask difficult questions that could be interpreted as criticism. It's hard to imagine, that in this day and age, Islamic scholars agree that those who criticize Islam or choose to stop being Muslim should be executed. Sadly, while talk of an Islamic reformation is common and even assumed by many in the West, such murmurings in the Middle East are silenced through intimidation. While Westerners are accustomed to an increase in religious tolerance over time, Darwish explains how petro dollars are being used to grow an extremely intolerant form of political Islam in her native Egypt and elsewhere.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President by themselves! Rest assured they will do so. . . You can look at how they have taken over several towns in the USA .. Dearborn Mich. is one... and there are others...

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on! It is too bad that so many are disillusioned with life and Christianity to accept Muslims as peaceful.. some may be but they have an army that is willing to shed blood in the name of Islam.. the peaceful support the warriors with their finances and own kind of patriotism to their religion. While America is getting rid of Christianity from all public sites and erasing God from the lives of children the Muslims are planning a great jihad on America.
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