To the war protester's,justify this please

[dr. freeze]

here are our other options:

embargo/sanctions: Iraqi people suffer

let him go: Iraqi people suffer, he develops nukes, we are screwed

let UN impose sanctions....tried that, now we know what French, German and Russians think of that....know that Hans Blix is blind as a bat...just played a cat and mouse game with Hussein...this all was a big joke....meanwhile Iraqi people continue to suffer

yeah thousands may die, but that is the price of freedom....for us and Iraqi people....also will tell N Korea, Iran, and other terrorists we are serious about defeating terror....also will tell Euros they better clean up their act and quick doing backroom deals behind UN's and US's and world's back by ignoring their own sanctions

Us Americans are not going to tolerate living in fear nor being screwed with. We just will not live like that. We have a little saying that we say....it goes something like "give me Liberty of give me death"

You see, we would rather die then to live in fear. That goes for the majority of us anyway. So you Euros can either accept that and thank us for saving your asses time and again, or you can develop this hatred for us that either has to do with you hate for Jews or your abhorence of our patriotism. Yes we believe our way of life is better than everyone elses. We believe freedom is worth dying for. We believe that Saddam is Evil and we believe in fighting evil. You can portray us as "evil" and full of greed or whatever but you see how we take care of Iraq POW's? We have surgeons working on them....we are sending in supplies right behind our troops to help the people. Meanwhile Iraqi's sabotage this action by feigning as civilians. Unbelievable.

And we will go in there and restore Iraq's natural resources to the people. You wait and watch and see. Yes our businesses will help out, but we help out in Saudi and UAE and Kuwait too and you see the people there with the $$.

Frankly, you Euros like to look at the speck in our eye and ignore the plank in your own. Its easy to blame big brother for all the ills of the world. Especially when they seem to all have so much and are all so happy and full of life all the time as compared to you all. Thats the American way. We work hard, play hard, and fight hard. And we are passionate about it. We dont shoot our guns in the air rejoicing about killing other peoples nor do we make a mockery of the tragedies of war....we accept war as an inevitable part of this fallen world. We see things for what they are, not as for how we wish they would be in some big Utopian world. We have a totally different view of this world than most of the Euros other than the Brits. Actually the Eastern European block also sees things the way we do because they have endured what the Iraqi people are enduring now. They are probalby our new allies and we will have to tell the rest of ya'll to not let the door hit your ass on the way out. Sad to say, but that seems to be what is in store. Just aren't going to tolerate this deceit and hate for our leaders and our people.

 

[TheItalianguy]

- World opinion is just that world opinion.


Well, call me old fashioned, but world opinion seems to be pretty freakin' important to me. world opinion means the majority, the majority means democracy, a concept george w. seems to have forgotten about


- Once iraq is freed and Iraqi's talk of what this man has done to his people maybe the world will have a differnet opinion then but somehow I doubt it.

So again, it's all a big world conspirancy against the US. Even after the war, people will be so evil not to admit the great humanitarian spirit of the US foreign policy that so much peace has been spreading around since the Viet Nam war.


freeze - so tell me, war was decleared on Hitler just after he invaded a bunch of countries...which is what Saddam did in 1991...which is what the US is doing now...oops

 

[hellah10]

war was decleared on Hitler just after he invaded a bunch of countries...which is what Saddam did in 1991...which is what the US is doing now...oops

thats actually pretty damn good assessment there.

I still dont blame Saddam for attacking Kuwait. Stole his oil and gold. But to top it all off, they buried depleted uranium or plutonium...whatever the shit is that gets old in the nuclear plants....well they buried it in the deserts of Iraq - so when there is a sand storm...yea that doesnt fare well for the citizens. Considering they were in a shithold allready, that just added more fuel to the fire. But the whole Kurds thing is stupid...no reason to gas em...

 

[dr. freeze]

in this day and age, pre-emption is actually out of defense....we are not invading to take over, but as the only means to rid the world of a threat...

the US is not a democracy....we are a Republic....

we are also SOVEREIGN

and the world is almost always WRONG on things if you have any view of history you would know this....

I already know what the world will think of us after this....they will hate us even more...not much we can do about that....we are doing the right thing, and if you cannot discern that, that is your problem...

you know by living in the US that we are not a bunch of Imperialists....we want peace as much as anyone but also do not want to live in fear....and we will fight for it and are doing so now...

you can tell me whatever you want about how this is Bush's war or whatever, but Bush is part of the people....he is a good and decent man and i know people who know him personally and also know leaders personally and they are still part of the people.....especially in times like this

you also should know that the disdain for the American people is groundless other than envy.....its understandable because we all can feel it in some microcosm, but there is not much we can do about it....we cannot let these feelings paralyze us and stop us for doing what is right....we cannot ignore history or ignore what repercussions could result from not acting

 

[hellah10]

the US is not a democracy....we are a Republic....

am I missing something?

 

[dr. freeze]

hellah if you think comparing Hitlers campaign to what we are doing to get rid of Saddam for defying every sanction and robbing the people of their food and putting them through life in fear, torturing the people, and the like then you are crazy and not subject to reason

 

[dr. freeze]

the Americans know that Israel controls us.....good grief...

you are wacked dude

 

[hellah10]

the Americans know that Israel controls us.....good grief...

you are wacked dude

pretty sure I didnt say that.

 

[TheItalianguy]

"Frankly, you Euros like to look at the speck in our eye and ignore the plank in your own. Its easy to blame big brother for all the ills of the world. Especially when they seem to all have so much and are all so happy and full of life all the time as compared to you all. Thats the American way. We work hard, play hard, and fight hard."


Freeze, come on, now you are making me smile. First of all, I have lived in the US for 10 years, so I don't need a lecture on American way of life, I work with an american company, have my 10 days a year of true american vacations which makes my quality of life so much better than Europe. Then, maybe oyu haven't travelled to Europe, talking about happiness and full of life. Next time you want to go to Italy, i'll show you around

"Life must be lived at its fullest. The Italians know how to do it."

Ernest Hemingway


Generalizations are dangerous freeze, i have been running from them for 10 years, when i say italy and people say spaghetti, mafia, the godfather. now please don't make the same mistake. I am an individual, i have my opinions, i am not a sheep

 

[neverteaseit]

well italian man since we are such a shameful country why are you here? Iraq is much better. and no world opinion is still just world opinion. nothing never changes on this front toward the U.S. One day where aiding a country the next day they are burning our flag. No matter what we do as americans right or wrong this fact never changes some will always hate us and some will always support us. That is fact always has been the same.

Have you ever been to IRAQ? And yes I have. And since it is such a peaceful nation maybe you should move there. But remember that if you say negative comments like this toward the current regime, they will rape your wife, cut your sons balls off and run your daughter threw a shredder to get your attention. But it is a beautiful place to live much better than the war mongur you currently live in. hell you may make $8.00 a month while your leader continues to build enormous palaces and more shrines for himself. all while your family starves. but of course it was the u.s. that made these people starve by putting sanctions on Iraq. Not poor saddam. he is such a great person.

you are the one who does not get it. we have lived with hatred from other countries since we became a nation over 200 years ago and have still been surviving ever since.

as far as death to iraqi's. saddam has killed 10,000 times more iraqi's then we will ever kill in this war. no it is not a pleasant thing but war never is.

 

[TheItalianguy]

"well italian man since we are such a shameful country why are you here? Iraq is much better. "

i was afraid it was going to come to that so my discussion ends here in order to avoid: go back home, italians=fascists, think about mafia, ect...all basis for a civilized debate. for the record, I am just criticizing the US government not the country and its people which I love and I happily live into. I guess I cannot criticze the government of the country i live in and pay the same taxes you do (I actually have to pay a little more thanks to Bush's enlighted policy toward foreigners), saddam should make this a rule too. Honestly, if you tell me the Italian prime minister is an as*hole I might agree with you and laugh about it, but if i say something about America, then everyone gets offended.

 

[loophole]

here's my take on this war. i think i've mentioned before in this forum that my family's service in the usmc stretches back through six generations, so you can get an idea of the perspective i have from my personal backround. i voted for gw bush in the last election, not so much because i think he is has the capacity to be a great president (i don't) but because i thought he was the best realistic option available at the time. now that he is president and commander-in-chief, if he says hussein has weapons of mass destruction and is a threat to our security, i am inclined to take what he says at face value. so be it. i do not expect him to send 300,00 us troops halfway around the world because hussein is a despot and an as*hole. i do expect him to do that if the information available to him and his advisors lead them to conclude that iraq is a threat to our national security. that being said, i fully expect bush to demonstrate the truth of his premise for war at the conclusion of this campaign. i believe that is the least that is owed to the families of the men that he has asked to die for this premise. if, at the conclusion of this campaign, he is unable to show us all that iraq indeed possessed weapons of mass destruction, i am going to be one pissed-off camper. as a child and an adult, i have been present when word was delivered that a husband or father has died in some remote dot on the map. if that scene is being replayed today so that bush can avenge a threat to his father or accomplish some abject partisan objective, i would be in favor of impeachment. otherwise, let's go get the job done, show the world the evidence to prove the truth and moral correctness of our mission, and bring our troops home asap.


btw, don't be so quick to trash italianguy. all he is doing is acquainting you with the opinion of the overwhelming majority of the world on this subject. even if you disagree, surely you can see the benefit of giving thoughtful reflection to the take of others from different perspectives and backrounds. otherwise, you take on the characteristics of some narrowminded hermit who refuses to see beyond the boundaries of his own limited mind and world.

 

[ssd]

Loophole:
Great post. Couldn't agree with you more. Both my father and 2 uncles served in the Corps. I know where you are coming from. Our advisors and adminstration have way more info than any of us can imagine. I don't believe we would put our troops into harm's way and spend all this money if the reasoning wasn't just. Let's see how things wash out in the end.

As for other opinions, I'm happy to hear other views. It's no fun and you don't learn anything if the only people you associate with agree with you all the time. It is interesting to hear opposing views not only from Americans but people from other countries of the world. Isn't that part of what we're fighting for now?

 

[ozball]

Great posts loophole and SSD,

other points of view are very important. Trying to put yourselves in others shoes and situation when reading their musings may influence decisions for the future.

I really hate sounding like a big critic of the US. I live 50km from your border, and really do love your country, and can hardly think of an American who I've met personally who I dislike.

That being said, the current path of US foreign policy is disastrous. 9-11 forced GW Bush to look further outside his borders than I believe he intended at the start of his presidency. It was a tragedy and the perpetrators should be cheased, caught and dealt with, as has been happening. But using this event as an excuse for furthering other foreign policy initiatives by war is simply not right.

ozball

 

[JT]

I just hope those in the administration who are so willing to put troops in harms way will make sure and increase the funding for taking care of Veterans of all wars after this is said and done. THAT is truly supporting the troops and not just putting a flag up despite your opinion on the war. I hope you are right Loophole in what he says is true but I am more cynical in nature. Personally I would multiply by 5-10 the amount of casualties above what they have said on Fox/CNN. Just hope it works out the best it possibly can. Peace...

 

[hellah10]

great post loophole

 

[neverteaseit]

i was afraid it was going to come to that so my discussion ends here in order to avoid: go back home, italians=fascists, think about mafia, ect...all basis for a civilized debate. by itialianguy

No where in my post do I say you are a facist or to go go home. I have no problem with any foreigner living in this country or expressing an outside opinion.

My wife is Romanian and lived under communist rule for 30 years of her live. So I have first hand knowledge of people being repressed.We own a house in Romania. I have served in 2 previous campaigns.

Desert Weekend in 1991 spoiled americans opinions about the true meaning of war. While in Bosnia I have seen mass graves of people. And by the way Saddam's total deaths on civilians will make bosnia look like a drop in the bucket. During the Bosnia conflict no one cried foul or protested for our troops then. And they are still there.

I had posted in an earlier thread to the same extent as loophole. We do not have to agree on anything but we must have some faith in our government. These people do not run our country because they got a GED from sally struthers on T.V. These are brilliant people who seem to more about what is going on then you and I will ever know.

Like I have always said once IRAQ is liberated the truth will come out and when it does will people apologize for the bashing of our leaders. Not on your life. But Everyone will line up wanting a piece of Iraq that is for sure.

 

[michaeljbird]

original post:by Neverteaseit

We do not have to agree on anything but we must have some faith in our government. These people do not run our country because they got a GED from sally struthers on T.V.


Amen brother:thumb:

 

[ferdville]

I don't think that many of us really give a flying f what the people around the world think of the U.S. Most of the information they receive is blatant propaganda anyway. If this is such a despised place to be, tell me about another place where millions of people are trying to move to every year. Italy? Sweden? Iraq? What would happen in your life if you made every decision based on what everybody else thought as opposed to what was in your best interests? Is that how you live your life? Do you take a vote before you act? Winning a popularity contest is not in the best interests of this or any other country. Making tough decisions will inevitably piss somebody off. Sometimes it is necessary.

 

[djv]

Saddam is as bad as Hitler as mentioned above. I agree. But even our own government said he could stay if he just gave up the WMD. So people seem to get second place.