Top McCain Adviser Blatantly Lies About Obama?s Tax

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,354
102
63
Bowling Green Ky
Spongie Would you go back and ask your crew at think progress how Obama plans to cut taxes on 95% of people--per your link

When he has stated he will repeal current tax cuts
which will raise taxes of EVERYONE that pays taxes.Raise capital gains tax from 15% to 28%
(Maybe where he comes from only 5% have investments) but national ave is around 50%

Don't bring back any answer like "because he said so"--

The fact is-If he repeals current tax rates and capital gains/dividends as he said he would
--he will raise taxes on 100% of tax payors

Now how does O remotely come up with his cutting taxes of 95%--he would 1st off have to include the 40% of population that pays no taxes--and how do you cut their taxes if they don't pay any:shrug: then he could increase level where taxes begin--increasing even more on the non taxpayor status.
P.S. your welcome to get Huffington and Moveon people to work with think progress on this matter ;)
 

Cie

Registered
Forum Member
Apr 30, 2003
22,391
253
0
New Orleans
When he has stated he will repeal current tax cuts
which will raise taxes of EVERYONE that pays taxes.Raise capital gains tax from 15% to 28%




The fact is-If he repeals current tax rates and capital gains/dividends as he said he would
--he will raise taxes on 100% of tax payors

Nightmare scenario imo. Gotta hope Obama is exposed between now and then as a a 'pied piper' of sorts.
 
MB NCAAF 728x90 Jpg

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Things can certainly be explained in different ways. George Bush and the republicans obviously think it's ok for this current generation to cut taxes and maintain those tax cuts at the same time they orchestrate and conduct an elective war. The only time in history that any sitting President has evidently only felt that some people in our society need make any sacrifice for our country. Certainly not the wealthy, certainly not the oil companies, certainly not Americans in general. I think it's about as unpatriotic as you can get to take this stance, but hey, that's just me, I guess...:shrug:

Reinstating the tax rates that were in place before the cuts do not have to be looked at as a raise of taxes. The abolishment of selected cuts - which in large part are soon due to expire anyway, based on Bush and the administrations own legislation and plan - do not necessarily become labeled as a tax increase to me. Of course, that's a great campaign comment, and neoconic response. Certainly easier for some to grab onto and claim foul, no doubt. I guess those same people are just fine with paying 1/3 of their tax money to service the debt created by this President, and in large part to his policies and decisions - mainly in Iraq. I am not, but to each their own.
 
MB NCAAF 728x90 Jpg

Cie

Registered
Forum Member
Apr 30, 2003
22,391
253
0
New Orleans
Exactly. That's what seems to get ignored in these discussions.

Why not keep the tax cuts-- which I, a 'card-carrying' member of the socio-economic middle calss, find to be pesonally beneficial ? No need to increase tax revenue if we can cut wasteful spending. If Obama wins, we will begin to withdraw from Iraq, right?.

Bush's huge mistake was this war he plowed us into. This war has changed the world's (and many of our own citizen's) opinion of us for the worse, and the massive spending has certainly not helped our economy. Maybe a steady withdrawal begining later this year will be a step in the right direction. Let's not forget the bush tax cuts pulled us out from the economic quagmire caused by the tech bubble. A repeal of the cuts right now could be disasterous imo.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
Why not keep the tax cuts-- which I, a 'card-carrying' member of the socio-economic middle calss, find to be pesonally beneficial ? No need to increase tax revenue if we can cut wasteful spending. If Obama wins, we will begin to withdraw from Iraq, right?.

Bush's huge mistake was this war he plowed us into. This war has changed the world's (and many of our own citizen's) opinion of us for the worse, and the massive spending has certainly not helped our economy. Maybe a steady withdrawal begining later this year will be a step in the right direction. Let's not forget the bush tax cuts pulled us out from the economic quagmire caused by the tech bubble. A repeal of the cuts right now could be disasterous imo.


I don't disagree with much of that. My post to Chad was mostly in the vein that the stupid 'BIGGEST TAX INCREASES EVER' comments are disingenuine and ignorant.

I mean, wtf?
 
MB NCAAF 728x90 Jpg

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
For the record, I think we need plenty of hard work in many areas of economic and tax theory. I don't deny the government in general wastes a lot of our tax money. But of course very few of us agree on the best things to fund and deny funding to, so therein lies the rub.

And, as most of us here know, there are few things less economically beneficial than taking income and spending it on interest (debt) payments. In my opinion, this borders on fraudulent usage of our tax dollars, and both parties need to be held accountable.

I can surely understand wanting to pay less in taxes - I surely would agree to that - but until people can come together on cutting ALL areas of our funding to make up for it, then I can go along with paying a percentage of my income to ensure my current and future way of life.

Also think a consumption tax is an interesting concept, or a flat tax with no deductions and money-hiding opportunities, etc. But funny, high income types always seem to want to shy away from those things - hmm, I wonder why, if the current system is so tough on them?
 

layinwood

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 29, 2001
4,771
40
0
Dallas, TX
For the record, I think we need plenty of hard work in many areas of economic and tax theory. I don't deny the government in general wastes a lot of our tax money. But of course very few of us agree on the best things to fund and deny funding to, so therein lies the rub.

And, as most of us here know, there are few things less economically beneficial than taking income and spending it on interest (debt) payments. In my opinion, this borders on fraudulent usage of our tax dollars, and both parties need to be held accountable.

I can surely understand wanting to pay less in taxes - I surely would agree to that - but until people can come together on cutting ALL areas of our funding to make up for it, then I can go along with paying a percentage of my income to ensure my current and future way of life.

Also think a consumption tax is an interesting concept, or a flat tax with no deductions and money-hiding opportunities, etc. But funny, high income types always seem to want to shy away from those things - hmm, I wonder why, if the current system is so tough on them?


I don't think high income types shy away from the consumption tax at all. As a matter of fact I think you will find that most want it. Anything that keeps our government away from taxing their investments is what they care about. High income people spend a lower percentage of their income than middle to lower class so for them it would be a better deal.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,354
102
63
Bowling Green Ky
I don't disagree with much of that. My post to Chad was mostly in the vein that the stupid 'BIGGEST TAX INCREASES EVER' comments are disingenuine and ignorant.

I mean, wtf?

Simple question--if your taxes go up and capital gains double--are they increased or not??

Maybe you and Chad can decipher article below
and then in your own words convince us ingnorant people how biggest tax increases are disingenous.
Tell us where this money will come from if not taxes.

Then please elaborate a bit on the Dems wailing how GW's tax cuts would kill our tax revenue--when fact of matter it produced highest tax revenue in history--were they-
A: Ignorant or
B: Disingenous
:shrug:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_20080317/ai_n25161620
What Will Obama's Plans Cost the Nation?
Human Events, Mar 17, 2008 by Kaminsky, Ross
On March 12, during debate on the federal budget, Sen. Wayne Allard (R.-Colo.) introduced an amendment he called the "Obama Spend-o-Rama." The amendment proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Illinois Democratic Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign at a cost of $300 billion in one year and $1.4 trillion over five years. These were the proposals that Allard's staff had time to analyze before the GOP leadership asked him to offer the amendment on the floor. According to Allard, "There are another 77 proposals with unknown cost estimates that will add billions to this number."

Who Backs Obama's Plan?

Allard freely admits that he will oppose his own amendment and urges other senators to do the same. But, as a senior Senate staffer pointed out to HUMAN EVENTS, "Let's see how many senators who have endorsed Obama will actually vote for [Obama's] budget."

Some of the numbers around the federal budget are incomprehensibly large. How do you wrap your mind around a five-year cost of $1.4 trillion?

Sen. Allard offers some comparisons to help with that mental exercise:

* This new spending, if enacted, would represent an almost 10% increase over the President's FY 2009 budget.

* This $300 billion spending proposal would cost more than 42 states' budgets combined (general fund expenditures).

* It is more than the United States spent last year on imported oil ($294 billion net).

* It is more than 60% larger than any one-year federal spending increase, ever.

According to Steve Wymer, Allard's communications director, "This amendment is obviously somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But if leaders in the Democratic Party are going to propose billions-or trillions-of dollars of new spending, at least let's be honest about it."

Of course, the problem with government spending is that government has only the money it takes from taxpayers. Allard therefore laid out the tax consequences of Obama's budget-busting proposals: "According to CBO, President Clinton's 1993 tax increase raised taxes $240.6 billion over five years. Late Sen. Patrick Moynihan (D.-N.Y.) called it the 'largest tax increase in the history of public finance in the United States or anywhere else in the world.' But this proposal will increase spending $300 billion in a singleyear."

Sen. Richard Burr (R.-N.C.) re-emphasized the point: One year of Obama's proposed spending increase "is bigger than the five-year increase (in federal income tax collections) that President Clinton imposed on the American taxpayer."

Burr argued that Obama's promise to raise taxes just on the Democrats' "attractive target" of people earning more than $250,000, will generate only $225 billion over five years, far short of the $1.4 trillion that Obama's proposed programs (actually only 60% of them) would saddle taxpayers with during that same time frame.

Middle-Class Tax Hikes

If Obama wanted to raise taxes on only the top 1% (earning more than $365,000) to fund his plans, those citizens' tax bills would have to rise by more than $40,000 annually, an increase of 57%. Given the impossibility of that scenario, even under complete Democratic control of government, the tax hikes would have to trickle down to the American middle class.

"So if Congress decides to widen the pool of taxpayers footing the bill," Allard said, "it would have to raise taxes on the top 5% by 38%, or the top 10% by 32%, or the top 25% by 26%, or the top 50% of taxpayers by 23%. The top 50% of American taxpayers, who already pay 96.9% of all federal income taxes, are those who earn $31,000 [adjusted gross income] or more."

"To translate this point into language everyone can understand," Allard continued, "if you have an income of $104,000 or more, the plan will cause your tax bill to go up at least an additional $5,300 a year. If you have an income of $62,000 or more, the plan will cause your tax bill to go up at least $2,300 a year. This is on top of the $2,300 increase already assumed by the failure to extend current tax policy."

Obama claims to want to "balance the budget and stop spending the Social Security surplus." Combining mat laudable goal with Obama's massive new spending would cause the tax bills of the average taxpayer earning $62,000 to rise $5,300, or 61%. For taxpayers earning $104,000, the increase would be more than $12,000, or 74%. And for the top 1%, earning more than $365,000, their tax bill will rise by $93,500, or 132%.

It is not only individuals who would suffer under the Obama Spend-o-Rama: Small businesses will suffer tax hikes, too. This is on top of the $4,100 tax increase that small businesses will face when the Democratic Congress refuses to renew the Bush tax cuts.

In his closing, Allard noted that this is not simply a hypothetical discussion: The current debate is about the 2009 budget, the first year of the next president's administration. It is therefore important (and good politics) to show the American public the ugly details of Obama's pretty talk.
 
MB NCAAF 728x90 Jpg

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
Simple question--if your taxes go up and capital gains double--are they increased or not??

Maybe you and Chad can decipher article below
and then in your own words convince us ingnorant people how biggest tax increases are disingenous.
Tell us where this money will come from if not taxes.

Then please elaborate a bit on the Dems wailing how GW's tax cuts would kill our tax revenue--when fact of matter it produced highest tax revenue in history--were they-
A: Ignorant or
B: Disingenous
:shrug:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_20080317/ai_n25161620
What Will Obama's Plans Cost the Nation?
Human Events, Mar 17, 2008 by Kaminsky, Ross
On March 12, during debate on the federal budget, Sen. Wayne Allard (R.-Colo.) introduced an amendment he called the "Obama Spend-o-Rama." The amendment proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Illinois Democratic Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign at a cost of $300 billion in one year and $1.4 trillion over five years. These were the proposals that Allard's staff had time to analyze before the GOP leadership asked him to offer the amendment on the floor. According to Allard, "There are another 77 proposals with unknown cost estimates that will add billions to this number."

Who Backs Obama's Plan?

Allard freely admits that he will oppose his own amendment and urges other senators to do the same. But, as a senior Senate staffer pointed out to HUMAN EVENTS, "Let's see how many senators who have endorsed Obama will actually vote for [Obama's] budget."

Some of the numbers around the federal budget are incomprehensibly large. How do you wrap your mind around a five-year cost of $1.4 trillion?

Sen. Allard offers some comparisons to help with that mental exercise:

* This new spending, if enacted, would represent an almost 10% increase over the President's FY 2009 budget.

* This $300 billion spending proposal would cost more than 42 states' budgets combined (general fund expenditures).

* It is more than the United States spent last year on imported oil ($294 billion net).

* It is more than 60% larger than any one-year federal spending increase, ever.

According to Steve Wymer, Allard's communications director, "This amendment is obviously somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But if leaders in the Democratic Party are going to propose billions-or trillions-of dollars of new spending, at least let's be honest about it."

Of course, the problem with government spending is that government has only the money it takes from taxpayers. Allard therefore laid out the tax consequences of Obama's budget-busting proposals: "According to CBO, President Clinton's 1993 tax increase raised taxes $240.6 billion over five years. Late Sen. Patrick Moynihan (D.-N.Y.) called it the 'largest tax increase in the history of public finance in the United States or anywhere else in the world.' But this proposal will increase spending $300 billion in a singleyear."

Sen. Richard Burr (R.-N.C.) re-emphasized the point: One year of Obama's proposed spending increase "is bigger than the five-year increase (in federal income tax collections) that President Clinton imposed on the American taxpayer."

Burr argued that Obama's promise to raise taxes just on the Democrats' "attractive target" of people earning more than $250,000, will generate only $225 billion over five years, far short of the $1.4 trillion that Obama's proposed programs (actually only 60% of them) would saddle taxpayers with during that same time frame.

Middle-Class Tax Hikes

If Obama wanted to raise taxes on only the top 1% (earning more than $365,000) to fund his plans, those citizens' tax bills would have to rise by more than $40,000 annually, an increase of 57%. Given the impossibility of that scenario, even under complete Democratic control of government, the tax hikes would have to trickle down to the American middle class.

"So if Congress decides to widen the pool of taxpayers footing the bill," Allard said, "it would have to raise taxes on the top 5% by 38%, or the top 10% by 32%, or the top 25% by 26%, or the top 50% of taxpayers by 23%. The top 50% of American taxpayers, who already pay 96.9% of all federal income taxes, are those who earn $31,000 [adjusted gross income] or more."

"To translate this point into language everyone can understand," Allard continued, "if you have an income of $104,000 or more, the plan will cause your tax bill to go up at least an additional $5,300 a year. If you have an income of $62,000 or more, the plan will cause your tax bill to go up at least $2,300 a year. This is on top of the $2,300 increase already assumed by the failure to extend current tax policy."

Obama claims to want to "balance the budget and stop spending the Social Security surplus." Combining mat laudable goal with Obama's massive new spending would cause the tax bills of the average taxpayer earning $62,000 to rise $5,300, or 61%. For taxpayers earning $104,000, the increase would be more than $12,000, or 74%. And for the top 1%, earning more than $365,000, their tax bill will rise by $93,500, or 132%.

It is not only individuals who would suffer under the Obama Spend-o-Rama: Small businesses will suffer tax hikes, too. This is on top of the $4,100 tax increase that small businesses will face when the Democratic Congress refuses to renew the Bush tax cuts.

In his closing, Allard noted that this is not simply a hypothetical discussion: The current debate is about the 2009 budget, the first year of the next president's administration. It is therefore important (and good politics) to show the American public the ugly details of Obama's pretty talk.

Wayne,

Do have a credible source that shows what Obama actually intends to try to do(in his own words, in context) in regard to taxes? If so, please post it as I am genuinely interested.

I can't decipher this mess you posted. It seems like it's based around some Republicans Senators 'tongue in cheek' proposal that he himself will vote against with a few stray comments thrown in from other senators.
 

Toledo Prophet

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 5, 2005
2,384
2
0
51
Toledo, Ohio
Here's my take on a consumption tax.....which i think is a valid enough idea to at least take a look at proposals and what not.

But, in my time as a reporter, I covered four different elections with a sales tax on the ballot. All four lost, by a wide margin. I would say at least two of those communities were at the upper end of the income scale, although both had a older age demographic to it, so that may have played a part. The local chambers not to mention local anti tax groups came out in full force each time. In one of the towns, they were trying to come up with a way to raise revenue without another property tax hike.

So, I guess by consumption tax are you refering to a sales tax? If so, my limited epxerience tells me there will be a lot of opposition to it. I think its worth a look......we're killing people all over the place with property taxes, but that seems to be the only method communties have that works......but in the last 10 years or so we're seeing more and more of those levies--even for schools--go down than ever before.
 

BobbyBlueChip

Trustee
Forum Member
Dec 27, 2000
20,619
244
63
52
Belly of the Beast
Wayne,

Do have a credible source that shows what Obama actually intends to try to do(in his own words, in context) in regard to taxes? If so, please post it as I am genuinely interested.
.

No. He doesn't.

If you make over $250k, you will pay more and depending on where you live, that's not really enough income to make someone feel rich.

Obama vs. McCain: Taxing and Spending By Jane Sasseen
1 hour, 42 minutes ago



They've parried over gas taxes (BusinessWeek.com, 4/15/08) and fixes for the housing crisis. Now, as the general election campaign kicks off, Senators Barack Obama and John McCain have each begun to hammer away at the tax and spending programs being promoted by his rival.

ADVERTISEMENT

Obama, who has begun a two-week tour around the country to highlight his views on the economy, derides McCain's plans to extend the Bush Administration's tax cuts, eliminate the Alternative Minimum Tax, and slash corporate taxes. Campaigning in St. Louis on June 10, Obama called the current Administration "the most fiscally irresponsible in our history" and argued that McCain would be even worse. "I've said John McCain is running to serve out a third term, but when it comes to taxes, that's not being fair to George Bush. Senator McCain wants to add $300 billion more in tax breaks and loopholes for big corporations and the wealthiest Americans," Obama said.

As McCain revs up his campaign, he has wasted no time in trying to paint Obama as a typical tax-and-spend liberal. He argues that if the Senator from Illinois is elected, America is in store for the biggest tax increase since World War II. "Under Senator Obama's tax plan, Americans of every background would see their taxes rise -- seniors, parents, small business owners, and just about everyone who has even a modest investment in the market," McCain said in a speech to the National Small Business Summit in Washington, also on June 10.

First Round to Obama

So where does the reality lie? According to a new analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a joint venture between the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, two Washington think tanks, this round goes to Obama. The TPC took a look at the various tax proposals put forth by the two candidates and estimated that Obama's plan would lead to a boost in aftertax income for all but the highest earners, while taking a smaller bite out of government tax revenues than would McCain's plans.

Len Berman, a former Treasury tax official who is now a senior fellow at the Urban Institute, says if Obama's proposals -- which include plans to rescind the Bush tax cuts on couples making more than $250,000, close corporate tax loopholes, and tax private equity earnings known as "carried interest" as ordinary income -- were adopted in 2009, for example, married couples with earnings in the lowest quintile of the population would see their aftertax income rise 5.8%. Those in the next quintile would see an increase of 4%. Those breaks would be paid for by those with high incomes: the top 1% of taxpayers would see aftertax income fall 8.4%.

Under McCain's proposals, by contrast -- including an extension of the Bush tax cuts for all taxpayers, a corporate tax cut, and a larger reduction in estate taxes than Obama would support -- far more of the benefits would go to the top. If his plans went into effect in 2009, married couples in the bottom fifth of the population would see aftertax income go up just 0.2%, while those in the next quintile would see a 0.7% hike. But those in the top quintile would see a bump up in aftertax income of 2.7%.

"It's just flat wrong" to say people would do worse under Obama, says Berman. "Most lower- and middle-class people would pay less taxes under Obama than they would under the proposals being put forth by McCain."

All Depends How You Figure It

The two candidates' tax plans would change overall government tax revenues in vastly different ways. But by how much? That depends on how the impact is measured. Under current tax law, the Bush tax cuts are supposed to expire for all taxpayers at the end of 2010, so the current estimates by the Congressional Budget Office for tax revenues beyond those years assume that rates go back to the levels in effect before the tax cuts took effect. The top income tax rate, for example, is assumed to rise from today's 35% to the old top rate of 39.6%.

Using that assumption as a baseline, the Tax Policy Center looked at the impact of all the changes in tax law that each of the candidates has proposed. If McCain's proposed tax changes were put into effect, the Treasury would lose $3.7 trillion in revenue for the 10-year period between 2009 and 2018, compared with what it would take in under current law. If all of Barack Obama's tax plans were put into effect, the loss to the Treasury would be $2.7 trillion in revenues.

However, no one in Washington believes all the Bush tax cuts will be rescinded. Even under a Democratic Congress and Administration, the Bush tax cuts are likely to be kept in place for most taxpayers. So economic advisers to both campaigns argue it is more realistic to judge the impact of their campaign proposals against the tax policies and rates currently in effect.

Under that scenario, the numbers for both candidates look far better, although Obama still comes out well ahead. Indeed, when compared with current tax policy, his proposals would actually increase revenues coming into government coffers. Although he has promised tax cuts to many middle- and working-class families, along with the elderly, the TPC concludes that those cuts would be offset by his plans to increase taxes on high-income families and to close corporate tax loopholes. Together, those moves would bring an estimated additional $734 billion to the Treasury over 10 years, according to the Tax Policy Center study.

Leaving the Treasury Short

By contrast, even using the more favorable comparison, McCain's proposed tax changes would still leave the Treasury coming up short. According to the study, McCain's combined proposals would slash tax revenues by an estimated $628 billion over the 10-year period compared with what would come in under current tax policy.

Berman points out that the estimates assume the plans put forth by either candidate would be adopted exactly as proposed, which is unlikely. Both the McCain and Obama plans will probably evolve and become more specific as the campaign progresses; Congress, too, will want to have its say, no matter who is elected.

There's another highly questionable factor built into these calculations: Each campaign assumes it will get hundreds of millions in new revenues by closing tax loopholes, eliminating excessive spending on earmarks, and other maneuvers. To come up with its estimates, the Tax Policy Center takes those figures at face value, though many can't be verified or are unlikely to materialize. Spending, after all, is rarely cut -- or loopholes as easily closed -- as much as pledged during a campaign. Instead, says Berman, the analysis provides a snapshot of what would be feasible "if they could become President without a Congress, and without the need to run for reelection."

Nevertheless, he says, the estimates provide the closest idea possible of what the candidates intend. "It gives us some sense of their view," says Berman.
 
MB NCAAF 728x90 Jpg

Cie

Registered
Forum Member
Apr 30, 2003
22,391
253
0
New Orleans
Len Berman, a former Treasury tax official who is now a senior fellow at the Urban Institute, says if Obama's proposals -- which include plans to rescind the Bush tax cuts on couples making more than $250,000, close corporate tax loopholes, and tax private equity earnings known as "carried interest" as ordinary income -- were adopted in 2009, for example, married couples with earnings in the lowest quintile of the population would see their aftertax income rise 5.8%. Those in the next quintile would see an increase of 4%. Those breaks would be paid for by those with high incomes: the top 1% of taxpayers would see aftertax income fall 8.4%.

Top 1% is $365K+. Change that to top 0.5%(roughly $500K) and I would have no problem with that portion of Obama's plan.


A major problem w/ Obama's 'plan' is that the elimination of capital gains tax, taxation of dividends and the such as normal income, etc, will hurt alot more than the top 1% of earners. I will concede that this is of little effect to the lower quintile or maybe the bottom half of earners, but the top half will take a hit.

Of course, its easy to fix this by capping capital gains, rather than eliminating altogether, but that doesn't seem likely given Obama's radical stance on the matter.
 

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
I can answer your question simply, Wayne. Yes, if I am a stockholder and sell stock at a profit that is not in a Roth IRA, then, yes, my Capital Gains scenario would go up - if your analysis on Obama is correct - would like to see the verification of the exact plan you are hanging your hat on, though. Since I don't currently have any stock in a non-Roth scenario, then that won't affect me, so mine won't go up.

And, I don't have to consider the rescinding of tax cuts that are already planned to expire soon a raise of taxes - just the restoration of what was in place. You can hammer on this, but the semantics can be what each cares to think. I know what you are saying, but it CAN accurately be explained both ways.

And, for the record, I certainly never called you ignorant.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,354
102
63
Bowling Green Ky
Wayne,

Do have a credible source that shows what Obama actually intends to try to do(in his own words, in context) in regard to taxes? If so, please post it as I am genuinely interested.

I can't decipher this mess you posted. It seems like it's based around some Republicans Senators 'tongue in cheek' proposal that he himself will vote against with a few stray comments thrown in from other senators.

Actually depends on which story of his you believe

He and H both said numerous times they would repeal the Bush tax cuts that expire in 2011.

He also said he would only increase taxes on on wealthy--then those making over $250,000 so is he going to repeal the Bush tax cuts then add back to wealthy or what every he deems wealthy but lower the others--hmm how does he do that.

Appears from O's website he singing to his clan--

"Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans. "

--closer to the truth from WSJ

Friday, May 09, 2008
Obama's Faulty Tax Argument

From The Wall Street Journal

Andrew G. Biggs
Op-Ed
May 9, 2008

As the presidential campaign heats up, a key issue is whether to extend the 2001 and 2003 income tax cuts, which expire in 2011. John McCain wants to make the tax cuts permanent. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton want to let the rates rise.

Opponents of the tax cuts point to spending programs that could be financed by the extra revenues. Chief among these is Social Security. Sen. Obama's Web site, for example, argues that "extending the Bush tax cuts will cost three times as much as what is needed to fix Social Security's solvency over the next 75 years."

Such statements imply that if we return to the seemingly modest tax rates of the 1990s, we could fund the $4.3 trillion Social Security deficit, and so much more. ...

n reality, repealing the tax cuts would raise taxes far above Clinton-era levels. ... [A]verage taxes would be almost 25% higher than during the 1990s.

Mr. Obama's claim that the lost revenue from the income-tax cuts exceeds the Social Security shortfall derives from an analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The Center's conclusions have been widely cited, but rely on dubious assumptions. ...

[T]ax revenues would skyrocket if the tax cuts expire, due to "bracket creep." Average incomes are higher today than in the 1990s, but income-tax brackets aren't adjusted for the growth of earnings. As a result, Americans will shift into higher tax brackets and pay a greater share of their incomes in taxes.

Going back to the tax rates of the 1990s doesn't mean that households will pay 1990s taxes. Because the tax brackets haven't risen along with incomes, average taxes would be significantly higher, and grow each year. ...

[C]ompared to the average over the last 50 years, allowing the rates to rise would increase tax revenues by 32%.

Believe it or not, income taxes will rise even if the tax cuts remain in place, because the revenue-increasing effects of bracket creep more than offset the lower rates. ...
 
MB NCAAF 728x90 Jpg

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
I just hope both are as up front and easy to undestand what is what. The cry from Reb's they will raise your taxes is not good enough any more. They took over 700 billion from S/S fund last 7years. Had a war with Iraq that was ran on credit cards to tune of over 600 billion. Guess what some one has to pay those bills. Guess who. Reb's will say we won't raise your taxes. Yes they will. Just both sides be honest would be good start. Clinton said I will raise taxes. He did and rich still got richer, and everyone else did very good to. It's not just about taxes. It's about job's and the economy. Both set records under Clinton. Hate the guy all you want. But if either these guys can get close we will all be better off.
 
Top