Tough debate
- Thread starter DOGS THAT BARK
- Start date
And what would be the mortality rate for soldiers that do NOT have to fight a war, Wayne? We all understand (most of us, anyway) that sometimes war is a last resort and must be fought. But for the elective wars...that is a different story. And that is the war we currently find ourselves in - Iraq. Totally elective, totally arguable, and the mortality rate for American soldiers (not even going to bring up non-soldiers and non-Americans on this one...) would be around 99% higher than non-war soldiers, I would guess.
Sounds like a far more sensible number to "shoot" for to me.
Sounds like a far more sensible number to "shoot" for to me.
Actually Chad I had post a while back on soilder death rates in peaceful years that exceeded death rates in 1st couple years of Afgan/Iraq collective deaths. If you'd like I'd look it up again.
Regardless Taking nothing away from those serving in Afgan or Iraq--compared to other wars we fought--the living conditions and extremely low casualty rates for fighting 2 wars would make this a virtual R&R for those in the other wars other than maybe the last year in VN.
Edward on a more civil note--define poverty and middle class
--- along 30% interest ect
Saw on TV add about 6 in 10 americans hace CC debt.
Give me one reason why people accumulate CC debt other than living beyond their means- (spending more than they make)
I know many that appear prosperous but lifestlye funded almost entirely on credit--
I've also see the opposite--folks on low end of pay scale but manage to save a little each month.
The key to accumulation is living below ones means not above it.
Bottom line people paying interest 20% on CC have serious spending flaw-in proportion to their earnings..You can bail them out indefinately but until you correct the prob--you will return to the status quo.
Regardless Taking nothing away from those serving in Afgan or Iraq--compared to other wars we fought--the living conditions and extremely low casualty rates for fighting 2 wars would make this a virtual R&R for those in the other wars other than maybe the last year in VN.
Edward on a more civil note--define poverty and middle class
--- along 30% interest ect
Saw on TV add about 6 in 10 americans hace CC debt.
Give me one reason why people accumulate CC debt other than living beyond their means- (spending more than they make)
I know many that appear prosperous but lifestlye funded almost entirely on credit--
I've also see the opposite--folks on low end of pay scale but manage to save a little each month.
The key to accumulation is living below ones means not above it.
Bottom line people paying interest 20% on CC have serious spending flaw-in proportion to their earnings..You can bail them out indefinately but until you correct the prob--you will return to the status quo.
You know I'll never argue the Afghan war...totally appropriate effort to wage in my view, although keeping the effort there and not pulling out most of it to go into Iraq was an ongoing and increasing mistake, again, in my view.
My point, since you are doggedly dancing around with semantics, is...
How many American soldiers would have died in Iraq if Bush and company had not decided to wage war there? Are you suggesting that there would have been similar death totals for those soldiers had they not gone to fight in Iraq?
My point, since you are doggedly dancing around with semantics, is...
How many American soldiers would have died in Iraq if Bush and company had not decided to wage war there? Are you suggesting that there would have been similar death totals for those soldiers had they not gone to fight in Iraq?
You are absolutely right Wayne, no reason to accumulate all of this debt since the economy has done so fabulously well during the Bush administration. I mean after all, he has created all of these wonderful jobs why is anyone complaining.
The middle class has borrowed due to rising cost and shinking incomes. The top 5% has seen the growth not the rest of the Americans. They are borrowing to buy groceries, to pay $3 a gallon for gas, to take advantage of that 1% interest rate that baloons to 30% if you are late on another credit card (which they don't tell you).
You see Wayne, they (banks, credit card companies, insurance companies, energy companies, and the rest of corporate America) have had free reign to screw Americans for the last 8 years. For a recent example in my neck of the woods take a look at how Duke Energy got a rate increase with PUCO by entering into a secret agreement with local big business around here and nailing the residential consumer. Public Utilities Commision of Ohio happens to be a bunch of appointees by former republican governor Taft, yep good old boys club continues on.
You know what Wayne, that vast liberal radio, tv and media system that you continue to rail on barely picked it up. Had that been the democrats, old Willie Cunningham would have been screaming away forever.
I know you want to get to accountability, so lets go, your scub bag friends set it up to take advantage of the poor, less educated and changed the laws to that effect. Thats my accountability. I see what really happens and those that prey on the weak and uneducated are true evil. Explain 30% plus interest now being legal. Explain more cash and go stores than fast food restaurants (other than mcdonalds) combined in this country. Yeah, we don't need government regulation. let the free market dispose of the less desirable.
Eddie
The middle class has borrowed due to rising cost and shinking incomes. The top 5% has seen the growth not the rest of the Americans. They are borrowing to buy groceries, to pay $3 a gallon for gas, to take advantage of that 1% interest rate that baloons to 30% if you are late on another credit card (which they don't tell you).
You see Wayne, they (banks, credit card companies, insurance companies, energy companies, and the rest of corporate America) have had free reign to screw Americans for the last 8 years. For a recent example in my neck of the woods take a look at how Duke Energy got a rate increase with PUCO by entering into a secret agreement with local big business around here and nailing the residential consumer. Public Utilities Commision of Ohio happens to be a bunch of appointees by former republican governor Taft, yep good old boys club continues on.
You know what Wayne, that vast liberal radio, tv and media system that you continue to rail on barely picked it up. Had that been the democrats, old Willie Cunningham would have been screaming away forever.
I know you want to get to accountability, so lets go, your scub bag friends set it up to take advantage of the poor, less educated and changed the laws to that effect. Thats my accountability. I see what really happens and those that prey on the weak and uneducated are true evil. Explain 30% plus interest now being legal. Explain more cash and go stores than fast food restaurants (other than mcdonalds) combined in this country. Yeah, we don't need government regulation. let the free market dispose of the less desirable.
Eddie
Chad
"How many American soldiers would have died in Iraq if Bush and company had not decided to wage war there? Are you suggesting that there would have been similar death totals for those soldiers had they not gone to fight in Iraq?"
How many soilders would died had we not ever went to any war:shrug:
When you go to war-soilders die
Your only position is the fact we went to war--which your certainly entitled to.
You could make same case for world war 2 and saved 100 of thousands of lives--of course we be reading your post in Japenese or German.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edward If you were on receiving end of interest
you be licking your chops at potential of 10% returns and rock bottom real estate prices--but from your rant-one must assume your on the other end of that spectrum-
Past 5years
You had opp to lock in home rates at lowest in 40 years--if you didn't- its your fault
Employments rates for past 15 years been at 5% or less(they refer to that as full emplyment)--if you don't have job--its your fault
If you haven't saved 10% minimum but instead spent 125% of what you make--its your fault
--and on your poverty- you need only do three things in this country to avoid poverty: finish high school, marry before having a child and marry after the age of 20. Among those who follow such advice, only 8% are poor, while 79% of those who do not are poor."
of course I agree -- that's asking quite a lot of some
"How many American soldiers would have died in Iraq if Bush and company had not decided to wage war there? Are you suggesting that there would have been similar death totals for those soldiers had they not gone to fight in Iraq?"
How many soilders would died had we not ever went to any war:shrug:
When you go to war-soilders die
Your only position is the fact we went to war--which your certainly entitled to.
You could make same case for world war 2 and saved 100 of thousands of lives--of course we be reading your post in Japenese or German.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edward If you were on receiving end of interest
you be licking your chops at potential of 10% returns and rock bottom real estate prices--but from your rant-one must assume your on the other end of that spectrum-
Past 5years
You had opp to lock in home rates at lowest in 40 years--if you didn't- its your fault
Employments rates for past 15 years been at 5% or less(they refer to that as full emplyment)--if you don't have job--its your fault
If you haven't saved 10% minimum but instead spent 125% of what you make--its your fault
--and on your poverty- you need only do three things in this country to avoid poverty: finish high school, marry before having a child and marry after the age of 20. Among those who follow such advice, only 8% are poor, while 79% of those who do not are poor."
of course I agree -- that's asking quite a lot of some
Not good enough, at least for me. That is the whole point, that these soldiers did not have to die, and most of them would not have for this war. That is THE point. Comparing losses of this war to others is arguable in other ways, but not in this way. You actually can pick and choose the wars you elect to fight. Bush elected this one (plain and simply), and these people and a lot more died. That did not have to, and electing to fight it is WHY they died. You can make light of it - the way you did - and that's easier for you and the supporters. But it's a cop-out in my opinion.
As for the ongoing (by you, wease, and a couple others) equivocation of Iraq and WWII, that remains probably the weakest spin that you guys come up with. Germany was a huge threat to the entire world, which we were (as I recall) a part of. We were asked by many countries to enter into it, and most here knew we would eventually have to do that. Not if, but when. For the safety and security of our country, and our allies. And then, the 'ol Japanese (the country) even attacked us on our own soil, which made the decision happen for us.
NONE of this was the case in Iraq. You know that, but want to try to make my points seem far out. They are exactly on point, and your spin is simply wrong, IMO.
"You could make same case for world war 2 and saved 100 of thousands of lives--of course we be reading your post in Japenese or German."
As Chad points out, this is most inane comparison every posted in this forum. Not even worth an analysis. The other point that has been made numerous times, but one that you won't seem to accept is the fact THAT THIS IS NOT A WAR. There is no standing army to be a war with. The war was over years ago. This is a post war occupation.
As Chad points out, this is most inane comparison every posted in this forum. Not even worth an analysis. The other point that has been made numerous times, but one that you won't seem to accept is the fact THAT THIS IS NOT A WAR. There is no standing army to be a war with. The war was over years ago. This is a post war occupation.
They had a good fight tonight. It's refreshing to see A Gal, White Male, Black Male. Then of course we have the normal 4 or 5 blue suits White Male's from other side. Not much new there.
