tuesday

[pipeville]

Guys,
I know I am going to get bashed for this because Raymond (and Fletcher) are long time posters who have provided much valuable information and winners for this forum. And the reason I link the two is because they are in business together as part of a service.

I have purchased their service and used it and have no complaints. But at the end of the day, i prefer to do my own research using this and other sites to determine my own plays. I don't post my own plays because I don't want to convince someone to take a play that may cost them money. These sites are essentially for information sharing and if I ever have injury or weather information I put it up but that is it.

However, I don't see the appropriateness in Ray posting his paid service plays at 9:30 p.m. including his GOY on the Mets (currently leading 5-1). Those paid service plays were of no value to this forum. What was of value to this forum was the White Sox +160 play that looks like it will go down (currently down 9-0).

These forums are about sharing information. If Raymond had information about a great pick like his Mets, it could've been shared here. If he chose to sell those picks, that is entirely his right. However, to post plays on this forum which are probably his 4th or 5th best selection of the night does a disservice to this board and the people who are honestly trying to disseminate information and make informed judgements on the best play of the night.

I have no issues whether Ray's play of the White Sox won or lost tonight. What I have issue with is that the reputation that he and Fletch have on these forums are that they are excellent handicappers and people tend to follow them. But what they are currently following is second-rate information or guesses.
To me, that just sucks for everyone reading their posts and for the overall integrity of the forum and everyone who posts their best information and picks in earnest.
I'm sure I will get bashed right off the board for saying anything negative about either of these posters, however, I want these boards to remain what I have followed them for over the past 2 years which are solid sources of information and sharing of knowledge from various parts of the country.
Good luck to all.
Pipeville

 

[hammer1]

Nicely said.

Nicely said.

Couldn't agree more.
Don't post much here but what I do is the same stuff I give my clients..no 4th anf 5th picks.

 

[falco]

i have been reading the posts on this board for about a year now,and alot of it is great info. but if someone like raymond or fletch post their plays it dosent mean im going to bet my life on it. i make my own opinions on what games i want to play . you have to use your own judgement. and as for rays and fletchs paid service i see no problem with them posting their service plays after the game has started. they allways post the winners with the losers. one other point .. yes i would have liked to have the mets as a goy, but i did not pay for it so i dont expect it. but how many times have they posted service plays for free!!

 

[mr. wizard]

I'm right there with ya Pipeville....I respect Flether and Raymond and the games and advice that they add to this forum, but to post plays that have already gone, especially a goy, might rub people the wrong way......but hey, this is America and we can do whatever we want.....Let's just all come together and beat the man.

Mr. Wizard

 

[bohawk]

Don`t think Raymond is part of "gamblers data.com" anymore. Only shows fletcher and his record anymore. But you may know more about this since you "subscribe to the site". Feel Raymond was just trying to reticify his CWS pick by giving out his "service picks" Which, for the FIRST time I can remember, he has ever indicated he used. Just think he was trying to help. Been on this site almost Three Years - RAYMOND is a" Giver" not a "User" GL

 

[Antonio]

Very well said Pipe, and that is why i do my homewrok and list my opinions before even reading through threads. I can name on one hand alone, guys i would seriously discuss a wager with in here.

 

[Antonio]

Bohawk your right Fletcher is by himself there.

 

[gecko]

Like many of you I value the Ray-man's opinions. I check his thread out almost every time. Clearly we are not here to "coattail", but to factor other cappers' opinions/plays into our own handicapping. Yes, this is such a great place to share information. I guess if I was a paying for Ray's picks then I would hope his free ones would be something like his 4th or 5th best plays. That's fine. There's no problem with him posting a play or two for free in this forum, provided we all keep in mind that it may not necessarily be among his top plays. And it's okay for him to post his service plays after the fact. That way we can monitor his picks as well. It's all good.

 

[Antonio]

Pipeville after reading that post again i just gotta do this:Yep: :thumb: :clap: :Yep: :clap:

Now if there were only more guys on here who thought like you.

 

[fletcher]

Guys,
I know I am going to get bashed for this because Raymond (and Fletcher) are long time posters who have provided much valuable information and winners for this forum. And the reason I link the two is because they are in business together as part of a service.

not going to bash or say anything to you harsh but get your facts stright i don't talk about service plays here and ray is not in business with me and has not been for about 3 months. like always speak before knowing facts and pull me into it.

 

[guy]

I thank RAY was posting the mets play to agree with the post about mets . not for any other reason . "class act !"
Can't we get along ? BEAT THE MAN.

 

[gecko]

good point, guy. Maybe he did for that reason, but then maybe not.:shrug: Otherwise, I'm sure he's like all of us. He's open to our opinions, but then I think he probably plays them before he posts. If that's the case then he doesn't have the time to read others' opinions. Tonight's White Sox play is such an example.

 

[gsp]

I capped every game Ray mentioned today. I couldn't figure what he saw in CWS so guess what I did? I passed. I loved his Det over and said I did in my thread. I wasn't real happy when Joe West turned out to be the ump but if we had got a good over ump the score might have looked like Tor. Thanks Ray for posting your paid plays for the day. Now I'm going to go back and figure why the Mets was your play of the year. I try to take all information on here and turn it to my advantage and frankly I will know why you liked them that much within a couple of hours. Guys, if you didn't play the Mets tonight then, like me, you could have missed something. You are not seeing the forrest for the trees. That said, I've got to cap that Mets game again.

 

[gecko]

One thing is for sure, Ray's WSox pick spurred on some pretty good debate in this thread. Raymond made his play based on a number of trends, and going against another using the "due theory". In any case, one thing he didn't cap but others did was based on psychology and motivation. Many of you shared your thoughts on the Angels and the Sox. Washburn had a long undefeated streak going and is definitely on the most underrated hurlers in the game. I see lotsa Angels games and when they got it going, they can beat anybody. This team is not to be underestimated. The Sox, meanwhile, may have packed it in. What an unmotivated bunch! And their starting pitching stinks overall. As GSP said, when in doubt, PASS. But keep the vigorous discussion going. It's good for all of us.

 

[trademaster]

Damn I knew WASHBURN was going to win but I passed cuz I heard Raymond was god or something(not a diss but a complement, hell i will never be has good has Ray the man in MLB). Anyways "piggy backing" someone might work for a while but you should "gamble" on your own picks, hell I was in the hole but parlays(MY PICKS) got me in the $$$

Anyways I checked the links section and saw Raymond's site he works for or did work for. If people are going to pay for his service then that is fine(and there are TONS of people who will pay for his picks or his thoughts or anyone elses for that matter). If I was a paying customer i wouldn't want him to give free picks on this site or any other free site.

The real question is should he post his serivce plays after HE WON so more people will pay for his serivce, morally it may be wrong but who cares he is here to make $$$ and so are you. Anways not my call to say what is right or wrong I am new to this site.

Before I come to this site(and before I check the lines) I research who will win then i come here to see what the "elite" think then i make a judgement call if I should play or pass. I post my picks here not so people will pick my picks(no one would be that stupid LOL) but so I can keep a record for myself.

 

[Rakingitin]

I have found this dialogue to be both informational and entertaining. I have always been a skeptic to paid services and that's why I enjoy this forum so much. A bunch of average guys who enjoy betting and are looking to factor in all the information available to make their plays for the day.

Whatever your method to make your plays, detailed capping, flipping a coin, piggybacking or some combination of that the beautiful thing about the country we live in is its YOUR choice. If you choose to follow someone and your comfortable with that then keep on doing it.

As for services, I always thought if the services did as good as many of them tout then why do they need my $100, $200 or whatever fee it is that they charge. Much like the late night infomercials on TV with the guys sharing their method that has made them millions. Why would they want to cut me in and share all that money? What they're making too much and are feeling generous? If paid services actually hit "Games of the Year" or other named best plays as often as many say they do then they wouldn't need the service fees from subscribers cause they would be making it on their own bets.

Although, that said, more money is better than less money so I guess we they should take all they can get.

I enjoy reading everyone's posts. But at the end of the day we're all adults and nobody forces us to make any play. So whatever your method good luck to ya.

 

[ferdville]

I have never seen so many cry babies crawl out from under the rocks as when something like this happens. Didn't hear any complaints when RAYMOND gave out KC at about +190 on Monday? People constantly bitch and moan about the fact that they would NEVER pay for a play service. But let Fletcher or Raymond post a loser up here and people jump on them like all hell has broken loose. That leads me to believe that there are those out there that are simply blindly playing everything Raymond or Fletcher pick on this forum. That is fine - but take your losses like a man and don't complain. Raymond and Fletcher contribute a great deal to this forum and don't deserve to be second guessed or have their motives questioned by people that have nothing to do with them. If you are a client and object to them posting service plays here, then you take that up with them. But if you object because they are only posting their 4th or 5th best play here, then take it as such and don't bet it. Better yet, fade it if that is what will make you happy. Neither of these guys is charging any of the readers of this forum one penny to read their posts. How can you complain? Would you rather have Fletcher's fourth best pick or BeanTownJim's top pick? If it bothers you, make your own damn's picks. But their is no reason to bash these guys - I am sure they are getting a little sick of snivelers, whiners, etc.

 

[FED]

thank you for your plays RAYMOND, we always appreciate it more than it looks,

keep em coming!!
:talk: :lol: :bigear:

fed

 

[H-Town]

Ray you da man. and thanks for KC on Monday. No regrets about yesterday whatsoever. Looking forward to pigskins! OUT!!!

 

[Chanman]

Thanx for posting Raymond...