We may get permission from Turkey to station our ground troops there. We want it for a staging ground for a northern route in to Iraq. We can do it all from Kuwait if necessary. Since Turkey only want's 25 billion from us over next three years for there kindness. Hey thats Your Money, My Money. What the hells going on with these so called friends. Chit we can use that 25 billion back here for a ton of things. Are the Turkes turning into French Fries?
Turks Becoming Turkies
- Thread starter djv
- Start date
Trukey turkey tooo
Trukey turkey tooo
Turkey, Saudi, and our other middle eastern "friends" do not want a democratic Iraq. The only middle eastern democratic country is Israel. The others see a democratic nation as a challenge to thier power.
I'm not shocked. They think they are in a position of power but if Turkey is not more helpful and the US pulls out they will be second on the list of countries in Saddams path.
Trukey turkey tooo
Turkey, Saudi, and our other middle eastern "friends" do not want a democratic Iraq. The only middle eastern democratic country is Israel. The others see a democratic nation as a challenge to thier power.
I'm not shocked. They think they are in a position of power but if Turkey is not more helpful and the US pulls out they will be second on the list of countries in Saddams path.
Turkey turns down 26 Billion asking for 28 to 30 Billion. I have agood place they can shove it. We give away our money that easy to buy friends. We should have a recall election.
Re: Trukey turkey tooo
Re: Trukey turkey tooo
i think not my friend...
Israel is a multiparty parliamentary republic with ultimate authority vested by the people in the legislature, or Knesset. There is no written constitution, but a number of basic laws passed by the parliament over the decades determine government operations and activities. Israel has a unitary, or nonfederalist, system of government; the central government in Jerusalem runs most government functions.
If you consider that democracy....then Lebanon can be considered one too
Re: Trukey turkey tooo
Blazer said:
i think not my friend...
Israel is a multiparty parliamentary republic with ultimate authority vested by the people in the legislature, or Knesset. There is no written constitution, but a number of basic laws passed by the parliament over the decades determine government operations and activities. Israel has a unitary, or nonfederalist, system of government; the central government in Jerusalem runs most government functions.
If you consider that democracy....then Lebanon can be considered one too
Last edited:
We in the United States have an annoying habit of viewing foreign nations in a one-dimensional way. We see nations (in this case, Turkey) supposedly rebuking American diplomatic requests to use Turkish soil to stage military ground operations. So, we get angry at countries like Turkey for their actions.
The fact of the matter is -- Turkey, like most countries -- has a broad spectrum of political idealogies within it. In many ways, it's just like the United States. There are liberals and conservatives. Hawks and Doves. Pro-West and fundamentalists. The Turkish Prime Minsiter represents ALL of these factions and the foriegn policy of the country reflects diverse points of view.
The same thing can also be said for countries such as France, Germany, et al. Although there are clear lines of division between mainstream opinion in these countries versus the prevailing public attitude in the United States, the point is -- there are literally MILLIONS of citizens within these countries who support American military intervention against Iraq (by the way, I have not made up my mind on the issue). These people are generally a minority, but you should not discount the fact that within most European countries between 20-45 percent of the people (depending on the country) support a hard-line American military stand towards Iraq.
To defame Turkey in this thread is totally ridiculous. Turkey has been one of America's closest allies for the past 50 years. It's easy for nations like Great Britain to support the United States when we have a common language and culture, and America has done so much for the British people in the 20th Century. But for a MUSLIM nation with no historical or cultural ties to the United States to be such a staunch U.S. ally is absolutely remarkable! I mean, think about it -- it's unheard of.
Turkey's economy is in shambles. Lives are being ruined because of the high inflation rate. The Gulf War alone cost Turkey billions of dollars and tailspinned the country into a deep recession. I;m not talking about a "recession" like here (which is mild). I'm talking about no economic groth and 80 percent annual inflation. Much of Turkey's economy depends on trade with nations of the Middle East and Europe. If a war breaks out, Turkey will likely be the hardest nation in the world (other than Iraq) hit by the ramifications of war. Turkey has EVERYTHING to lose if a war breaks out -- economically, politically, and socially. War would ravage the Turkish economy. War would sever Turkey's relations with virtually every Middle Eastern nation. Finally, war would fuel the rising fundamentalist factions within Turkey and perhaps even topple the government.
Oh, and those are the LEAST of the Turk's concerns. How about the prospect of Turkey being hit by guided missles and weapons of mass destruction? That's where many of the Iraqi missles are going to be targeted if an invasion comes from within Turkey. On this side of the ocean, it's easy to bang the war drums since the direct threat to Americans from Iraq is minimal. But Turkey is right there in harms's way. If you add the chemical and biological dangers (it would be easy for an Iraqi to smuggle toxic components into Turkey through the mountains on the border), cities like Istanbul, Ankara, Adana, and Izmir could lose thousands of lives.
THAT"s why Turkey wants American aid, not because they lack the commitment against Saddam Hussien's regime.
Want more?
Okay.
Turkey is the MOST American-freindly nation in the world. I believe I can say that because I've been there a dozen times (I admittedly used to work for the Turkish government -- I'll take any Turkish diplomat over all the morons that work in the U.S. State Department combined). Talk to any American who served in the military and was stationed in Turkey. It's one of the very few places in the world where the image of the "ugly American" is not the prevailing attitude. Turks like Americans. Read the history of the Korean War. Turkey sent thousands of troops to fight alongside the Americans. Stories of the conflict reflect the Turkish commitment to the United States. Also note that Turkey allowed ICBMs on its soil during the US-USSR cold war. At great peril to themselves, Turkey allowed its territory to host U.S. missles. Very few other countries did that. In fact, NO OTHER NATION did that unless I am mistaken. Turkey also hosts two American air bases. It's been a partner in NATO since 1953.
Yet the West continues to shaft Turkey. Depsite its attempts to Westernize, the EU keeps Turkey out of the economic and political alliance. Moves to join the EU have been rejected three times. Turkey has a horrible geographic location (in terms of security) including borders with hostile Iraq, Iran, Syria, and two former Soviet Republics.
Now, Turkey is being asked to be the base of a land invasion of Iraq. Never mind that the country's economy could be wrecked, relations with its neighbors could be severed for years to come, and the government could be overthrown (there have been two military coups within Turkey in the last 30 years -- some fear another could come)....we Americans think Turkey should follow our orders. Yeah, right.
If I was Turkey, I'd hold out for more. Much more. Like us, they are doing what's in their national interest. All power to them. If I was a Turk, I'd demand no less from my government. Wouldn't you?
I won't even get started on what a huge mistake this war might be for the United States and our horrifc national foreign policy. That's an entirely differnet subject,
-- Nolan Dalla
The fact of the matter is -- Turkey, like most countries -- has a broad spectrum of political idealogies within it. In many ways, it's just like the United States. There are liberals and conservatives. Hawks and Doves. Pro-West and fundamentalists. The Turkish Prime Minsiter represents ALL of these factions and the foriegn policy of the country reflects diverse points of view.
The same thing can also be said for countries such as France, Germany, et al. Although there are clear lines of division between mainstream opinion in these countries versus the prevailing public attitude in the United States, the point is -- there are literally MILLIONS of citizens within these countries who support American military intervention against Iraq (by the way, I have not made up my mind on the issue). These people are generally a minority, but you should not discount the fact that within most European countries between 20-45 percent of the people (depending on the country) support a hard-line American military stand towards Iraq.
To defame Turkey in this thread is totally ridiculous. Turkey has been one of America's closest allies for the past 50 years. It's easy for nations like Great Britain to support the United States when we have a common language and culture, and America has done so much for the British people in the 20th Century. But for a MUSLIM nation with no historical or cultural ties to the United States to be such a staunch U.S. ally is absolutely remarkable! I mean, think about it -- it's unheard of.
Turkey's economy is in shambles. Lives are being ruined because of the high inflation rate. The Gulf War alone cost Turkey billions of dollars and tailspinned the country into a deep recession. I;m not talking about a "recession" like here (which is mild). I'm talking about no economic groth and 80 percent annual inflation. Much of Turkey's economy depends on trade with nations of the Middle East and Europe. If a war breaks out, Turkey will likely be the hardest nation in the world (other than Iraq) hit by the ramifications of war. Turkey has EVERYTHING to lose if a war breaks out -- economically, politically, and socially. War would ravage the Turkish economy. War would sever Turkey's relations with virtually every Middle Eastern nation. Finally, war would fuel the rising fundamentalist factions within Turkey and perhaps even topple the government.
Oh, and those are the LEAST of the Turk's concerns. How about the prospect of Turkey being hit by guided missles and weapons of mass destruction? That's where many of the Iraqi missles are going to be targeted if an invasion comes from within Turkey. On this side of the ocean, it's easy to bang the war drums since the direct threat to Americans from Iraq is minimal. But Turkey is right there in harms's way. If you add the chemical and biological dangers (it would be easy for an Iraqi to smuggle toxic components into Turkey through the mountains on the border), cities like Istanbul, Ankara, Adana, and Izmir could lose thousands of lives.
THAT"s why Turkey wants American aid, not because they lack the commitment against Saddam Hussien's regime.
Want more?
Okay.
Turkey is the MOST American-freindly nation in the world. I believe I can say that because I've been there a dozen times (I admittedly used to work for the Turkish government -- I'll take any Turkish diplomat over all the morons that work in the U.S. State Department combined). Talk to any American who served in the military and was stationed in Turkey. It's one of the very few places in the world where the image of the "ugly American" is not the prevailing attitude. Turks like Americans. Read the history of the Korean War. Turkey sent thousands of troops to fight alongside the Americans. Stories of the conflict reflect the Turkish commitment to the United States. Also note that Turkey allowed ICBMs on its soil during the US-USSR cold war. At great peril to themselves, Turkey allowed its territory to host U.S. missles. Very few other countries did that. In fact, NO OTHER NATION did that unless I am mistaken. Turkey also hosts two American air bases. It's been a partner in NATO since 1953.
Yet the West continues to shaft Turkey. Depsite its attempts to Westernize, the EU keeps Turkey out of the economic and political alliance. Moves to join the EU have been rejected three times. Turkey has a horrible geographic location (in terms of security) including borders with hostile Iraq, Iran, Syria, and two former Soviet Republics.
Now, Turkey is being asked to be the base of a land invasion of Iraq. Never mind that the country's economy could be wrecked, relations with its neighbors could be severed for years to come, and the government could be overthrown (there have been two military coups within Turkey in the last 30 years -- some fear another could come)....we Americans think Turkey should follow our orders. Yeah, right.
If I was Turkey, I'd hold out for more. Much more. Like us, they are doing what's in their national interest. All power to them. If I was a Turk, I'd demand no less from my government. Wouldn't you?
I won't even get started on what a huge mistake this war might be for the United States and our horrifc national foreign policy. That's an entirely differnet subject,
-- Nolan Dalla
Last edited:
Nolan - brother you couldnt have said it any better :hail and your opinion is beyond well respected from me. And your credentials are like none other....
Well Nolan I to have not made up my mind on this war. I don't care to ever see another US bodybag. I wish we did not have to see any from any place. But if we go then I must back my country.
Do I believe some of these countries maybe holding us up just for a little extra. It looks that way. We are in Turkey as you say already to help defend them. Nato is on the way. We then as a country knowing this is the rath of god for Turkey. Might be smart enough to stay the hell out of there. However think of the money the sevice man and woman spend there. Think of the money another 40000 will spend. This will go on long after the war is over. But I agree with you at what cost. Tony Blair is going to lose for sticking with us. At least it sure sounds that way. If we know or have strong info Turkey may have a change in there government due to us being there. And this change even make things worse for us. Where is our leader ship? Do most folks in DC have there head up there butts. I agree Turkey has always done well for us. But maybe our welcome is wearing out. We dont seem to think that ever happans. Back to the dollars. If a county wants to help. They can use our protection at the same time. Then a number of dollars should not be in the 30 billion range. Whats next we give France 15 or 20 billion. Then Germany another 10 billion over what they already get. I mean when the hell does it end. We need dollars right here at home. 48 out of 50 states in the hole or dam near broke. Wisconsin could use about 4 billion where do they sign up. Ill take Wisconsin over every country mentioned above. I again I ask where is the leadership?
Do I believe some of these countries maybe holding us up just for a little extra. It looks that way. We are in Turkey as you say already to help defend them. Nato is on the way. We then as a country knowing this is the rath of god for Turkey. Might be smart enough to stay the hell out of there. However think of the money the sevice man and woman spend there. Think of the money another 40000 will spend. This will go on long after the war is over. But I agree with you at what cost. Tony Blair is going to lose for sticking with us. At least it sure sounds that way. If we know or have strong info Turkey may have a change in there government due to us being there. And this change even make things worse for us. Where is our leader ship? Do most folks in DC have there head up there butts. I agree Turkey has always done well for us. But maybe our welcome is wearing out. We dont seem to think that ever happans. Back to the dollars. If a county wants to help. They can use our protection at the same time. Then a number of dollars should not be in the 30 billion range. Whats next we give France 15 or 20 billion. Then Germany another 10 billion over what they already get. I mean when the hell does it end. We need dollars right here at home. 48 out of 50 states in the hole or dam near broke. Wisconsin could use about 4 billion where do they sign up. Ill take Wisconsin over every country mentioned above. I again I ask where is the leadership?
Few months ago, Turkey gave persmission to the United States to use their Fly Zone - for the price of.....
ZERO DEBT. US cleared Turkeys debt with them
not a bad deal...i think it was 80 billion
correct me if iam wrong
ZERO DEBT. US cleared Turkeys debt with them
not a bad deal...i think it was 80 billion
correct me if iam wrongHellah I dont know if that number is correct seems a little high. But we throw money around all over the world and dont take care of bussiness at home.
djv said:
That my friends is the problem..... but this would be opening a can of worms...
on one hand world peace, on the other the homeless etc etc
djv said:
I think that is the same amount that Greg Maddox recieved from the Atlanta Braves for a one year arbitration contract.
There is more than one turkey around stealing from us.
Season tickets up in every level.
Scott King of Dogs
and i think we should do
and i think we should do
what`s in our own best interests....i was wavering on whether to go to war....but we can`t let the u.n. decide our national defense policy....everyone in this mess is acting in their best interests...france with their burgeoning muslim population and their overwhelming business interests in iraq....allies come and go....there are few true allies...great britain and tony blair(whose ass in a wringer because he backs us in this action)...israel(if the truth be told,is the largest reason why most of the muslim world hates us and would love our demise)....but they are our allies...
if it truly is about oil,so be it....if it`s about keeping biological and chemical weapons out of the hands of terrorists,then so be it...
i wavered,but the mindless peaceniks and the condescending hollywood elite have pushed me over the edge...
these countries like iraq and n korea are truly a danger to our country`s safety....with n. korea caught sending missiles to terrorist sympathizer yemen on the sly,on an unflagged merchant vessel...and i am aware that iraq is run by a secular regime that has little in common with the bin ladens....but,the destruction of the west and israel is the tie that binds them....
we see now how differently we have to approach the n.korea situation...no talk about invading n korea...why?....because they have nuclear weapons...if saddam had them,he`d have the leverage he needed to hold sway over much of the middle east...
we need to do what`s in OUR best interests....
and i think we should do
what`s in our own best interests....i was wavering on whether to go to war....but we can`t let the u.n. decide our national defense policy....everyone in this mess is acting in their best interests...france with their burgeoning muslim population and their overwhelming business interests in iraq....allies come and go....there are few true allies...great britain and tony blair(whose ass in a wringer because he backs us in this action)...israel(if the truth be told,is the largest reason why most of the muslim world hates us and would love our demise)....but they are our allies...
if it truly is about oil,so be it....if it`s about keeping biological and chemical weapons out of the hands of terrorists,then so be it...
i wavered,but the mindless peaceniks and the condescending hollywood elite have pushed me over the edge...
these countries like iraq and n korea are truly a danger to our country`s safety....with n. korea caught sending missiles to terrorist sympathizer yemen on the sly,on an unflagged merchant vessel...and i am aware that iraq is run by a secular regime that has little in common with the bin ladens....but,the destruction of the west and israel is the tie that binds them....
we see now how differently we have to approach the n.korea situation...no talk about invading n korea...why?....because they have nuclear weapons...if saddam had them,he`d have the leverage he needed to hold sway over much of the middle east...
we need to do what`s in OUR best interests....
TTM I dont know if you ever can buy world pieace. I dont think that's what you meant. But the people have to want pieace that is for sure.
S-Love said:
either that, or....
when it's done in a civilized fashion, it'll get let go, but when it turns into slamming and name calling it's history??
