U.S. Policy Fights Hurt Search for bin Laden, al-Qaida

The Judge

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Reports show plans to attack Pakistan bases stymied by turf battles, missteps

By MARK MAZZETTI and DAVID ROHDE
New York Times
June 30, 2008


WASHINGTON ? Late last year, top Bush administration officials drafted a secret plan to authorize the Pentagon's Special Operations forces to launch missions into the mountains of Pakistan to capture or kill top leaders of al-Qaida.

Intelligence reports for more than a year had been streaming in about Osama bin Laden's terror network rebuilding in the Pakistani tribal areas, a problem that had been exacerbated by years of missteps in Washington and the Pakistani capital, Islamabad; sharp policy disagreements; and turf battles between U.S. counterterrorism agencies.

The new plan, outlined in a highly classified Pentagon order, was designed to eliminate some of those battles.

And it was meant to pave an easier path into the tribal areas for U.S. commandos, who for years have bristled at what they see as Washington's risk-averse attitude toward Special Operations missions inside Pakistan. They also argue catching bin Laden will come only by capturing some of his senior lieutenants alive.

But more than six months later, the Special Operations forces are still waiting for the green light. The plan has been held up in Washington by the very disagreements it was meant to eliminate.

Al-Qaida's new growth
After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, President Bush committed the nation to a "war on terrorism" and made the destruction of bin Laden's network a top priority. But it is increasingly clear the Bush administration will leave office with al-Qaida having successfully relocated its base from Afghanistan to Pakistan's tribal areas, where it has rebuilt much of its ability to attack from the region and broadcast its messages.

A recent U.S. airstrike killing Pakistani troops has only inflamed tensions along the mountain border and added to tensions between Washington and Pakistan's new government. How al-Qaida has gained a new haven is in part a story of U.S. accommodation to President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, whose advisers played down the terrorist threat. It also is a story of how the White House shifted its sights, beginning in 2002, from counterterrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan to preparations for the war in Iraq.

Just as it had on Sept. 10, 2001, al-Qaida now has a band of terror camps from which to plan and train for attacks against Western targets.

Officials say the new camps are smaller than the ones the group used prior to 2001. However, despite dozens of U.S. missile strikes in Pakistan since 2002, one retired CIA officer estimated that the makeshift training compounds have as many as 2,000 Arab and Pakistani militants, up from several hundred three years ago.

Publicly, senior U.S. and Pakistani officials have said the creation of an al-Qaida haven in the tribal areas was in many ways inevitable, that the lawless badlands where ethnic Pashtun tribes have resisted government control for centuries were a natural place for a dispirited terror network to find refuge.

The U.S. and Pakistani officials also blame a disastrous cease-fire brokered between the Pakistani government and militants in 2006.

But more than four dozen interviews in Washington and Pakistan tell another story. U.S. intelligence officials say that the al-Qaida hunt in Pakistan, code-named Operation Cannonball by the CIA in 2006, was often undermined by bitter disagreements within the Bush administration and within the CIA, including about whether U.S. commandos should launch ground raids inside the tribal areas.

Inside the CIA, the fights included clashes between the agency's outposts in Kabul, Afghanistan, and Islamabad. There also were battles between field officers and the counterterrorism center at CIA headquarters, whose preference for carrying out raids remotely, via Predator missile strikes, was derided by officers in the Islamabad station as the work of "boys with toys."

An early arrangement that allowed U.S. commandos to join Pakistani units on raids inside the tribal areas was halted in 2003 after protests in Pakistan.

Another combat mission that came within hours of being launched in 2005 was scuttled because some CIA officials in Pakistan questioned the accuracy of the intelligence, and because aides to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld believed that the mission force had become too large.

Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Musharraf allowed U.S. forces to use Pakistani bases to support the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, while Pakistani intelligence services worked closely with the CIA in tracking down al-Qaida operatives.

Pakistan's role
But from their vantage point in Afghanistan, the picture looked different to U.S. Special Operations forces who saw signs that the militants whom the Americans had driven out of Afghanistan were effectively regrouping in Pakistan.

When U.S. military officials proposed in 2002 that Special Operations forces be allowed to establish bases in the tribal areas, Pakistan flatly refused. Instead, a small number of "black" Special Operations forces ? Army Delta Force and Navy SEAL units ? were allowed to accompany Pakistani forces on raids in the tribal areas in 2002 and early 2003.

That arrangement only angered both sides. U.S. forces used to operating on their own believed the Pakistanis were limiting their movements. And while Pakistani officials publicly denied the presence of Americans, local tribesmen spotted the Americans and protested their presence.

Under pressure from Pakistan, the Bush administration decided in 2003 to end the U.S. military presence.

In order to keep pressure on the Pakistanis about the tribal areas, officials decided to have Bush raise the issue in phone calls with Musharraf.

The conversations backfired. Two former U.S. government officials say they were surprised and frustrated when instead of demanding action from Musharraf, Bush instead repeatedly thanked him for his contributions to the war on terrorism.

Intragovernmental battles raged over the plan in early 2005 for a Special Operations mission intended to capture Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden's top deputy.

In the end, the mission was aborted after Rumsfeld refused to give his approval for it.

Leading terrorism experts have warned that it is only a matter of time before a major terrorist attack planned in the mountains of Pakistan is carried out on American soil.

"The United States faces a threat from al-Qaida today that is comparable to what it faced on Sept. 11, 2001," said Seth Jones, a Pentagon consultant and a terrorism expert at RAND Corp.



"Stay the course! " - George W. Bush, April 13, 2004
 
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gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
""Late last year, top Bush administration officials drafted a """"secret plan"""" to authorize the Pentagon's Special Operations forces to launch missions into the mountains of Pakistan to capture or kill top leaders of al-Qaida.

Intelligence reports for more than a year had been streaming in about Osama bin Laden's terror network rebuilding in the Pakistani tribal areas, a problem that had been exacerbated by years of missteps in Washington and the Pakistani capital, Islamabad; sharp policy disagreements; and turf battles between U.S. counterterrorism agencies.

The new plan, outlined in a """"highly classified"""" Pentagon order, was designed to eliminate some of those battles.".................................




how can bin laden and al qaeda ever thank the nyt`s enough for exposing every covert plan and operation against al qaeda and the taliban?.....

once again,hatred for the current administartion trumps the goal of /thwarting/killing/capturing those that would kill us and our soldiers....

they should be hung....and probably would be in a different time...


and btw...it`s utter b.s. that al qaeda`s stronger than pre-9/11.....

thats just flat out bullshit...
 

The Judge

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gardenweasel said:
and btw...it`s utter b.s. that al qaeda`s stronger than pre-9/11.....

thats just flat out bullshit...
Why is this "bullshit"? Simply because you choose not to believe that it can possibly be true?

"The United States faces a threat from al-Qaida today that is comparable to what it faced on Sept. 11, 2001," said Seth Jones, a Pentagon consultant and a terrorism expert at RAND Corp.
Jones is a well-known expert on Afghanistan and U.S. foreign policy. Jones attracted considerable attention for his frank assessment of the use of Pakistan territory by Afghan insurgent and terrorist groups. In a well-publicized interview with The New York Times in 2006, he said there was widespread evidence from NATO, Afghan, and UN sources that Pakistani intelligence agents had been financing, training, and providing intelligence to Taliban insurgents based in Baluchistan and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan.

Jones also received considerable attention for his work with Ambassador James Dobbins on nation-building. Their RAND book America's Role in Nation-Building, which examined the U.S. history of nation-building since World War II, suggested that the U.S. needed nearly 500,000 soldiers to stabilize Iraq after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's government. L. Paul Bremer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, took the study to U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and President George W. Bush. Based on the study's conclusions, Bremer suggested that the United States military needed to reconsider downsizing its forces in Iraq and, on the on the contrary, increase them to help patrol cities and villages. But Bremer's memo was ignored.

Jones is the author of The Rise of European Security Cooperation (Cambridge University Press, 2007). He published articles on U.S. foreign policy in The National Interest, Political Science Quarterly, Security Studies, the Chicago Journal of International Law, International Affairs, and Survival, as well as such newspapers and magazines as The New York Times, Newsweek, Financial Times, International Herald Tribune, and Chicago Tribune.
Of course GardenWeasel is also a well known authority on the subject of Afghanistan and counterterrorism and has been widely published at MadJackSports.com but if it's all the same to you, I think that I will lean toward the opinion of the guy with the PHD in political science who just happens to be a consultant to the Pentagon.

Counterinsurgency in Afghanistan
By: Seth G. Jones
Prepared for the Office of the Secretary of Defense

This research was sponsored by the Office of the Secretary of Defense and conducted within the International Security and Defense Policy Center of the RAND National Defense Research Institute, a federally funded research and development center sponsored by the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Staff, the Unified Combatant Commands, the Department of the Navy, the Marine Corps, the defense agencies, and the defense Intelligence Community
 
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The Sponge

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Why is this "bullshit"? Simply because you choose not to believe that it can possibly be true?



Of course GardenWeasel is also a well known authority on the subject of Afghanistan and counterterrorism and has been widely published at MadJackSports.com but if it's all the same to you, I think that I will lean toward the opinion of the guy with the PHD in political science who just happens to be a consultant to the Pentagon.

:mj07: :mj07: I think this is one of those Garden Weasel Kodak moments Smurph always talks about.:142smilie
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Gregg--Maybe the author or you could inform us precisely where A-Q is stronger?

Iraq-Yemen-Saudi-Afgan-Pakistan-Lybia :shrug:

I also like authors anology on terrorist being driven out of area--they were able-- "to relocate" :)

I do like his last line--in article however

"Stay the course! " - George W. Bush, April 13, 2004

but he missed his followers favs--
we can't win
we already lost
retreat-surrender
surge won't work
;)

also maybe author would like to elaborate on these stats--

1988
February: Marine Corps Lt. Colonel Higgens, Chief of the U.N. Truce Force, was kidnapped and murdered by Hezbollah.

December: Pan Am flight 103 from London to New York was blown up over Scotland, killing 270 people, including 35 from Syracuse University and a number of American military personnel.

1991
November: American University in Beirut bombed.

1993
January: A Pakistani terrorist opened fire outside CIA headquarters, killing two agents and wounding three.

February: World Trade Center bombed, killing six and injuring more than 1,000.

1995
January: Operation Bojinka, Osama bin Laden's plan to blow up 12 airliners over the Pacific Ocean, discovered.

November: Five Americans killed in attack on a U.S. Army office in Saudi Arabia.

1996
June: Truck bomb at Khobar Towers kills 19 American servicemen and injures 240.

June: Terrorist opens fire at top of Empire State Building, killing one.

1997
February: Palestinian opens fire at top of Empire State Building, killing one and wounding more than a dozen.

November: Terrorists murder four American oil company employees in Pakistan.

1998
January: U.S. Embassy in Peru bombed.

August: Simultaneous bomb attacks on U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania killed more than 300 people and injured over 5,000.

1999
October: Egypt Air flight 990 crashed off the coast of Massachusetts, killing 100 Americans among the more than 200 on board; the pilot yelled "Allahu Akbar!" as he steered the airplane into the ocean. [UPDATE: Note correction below.]

2000
October: A suicide boat exploded next to the U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 American sailors and injuring 39.

2001
September: Terrorists with four hijacked airplanes kill around 3,000 Americans in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

December: Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber," tries to blow up a transatlantic flight, but is stopped by passengers.

The September 11 attack was a propaganda triumph for al Qaeda, celebrated by a dismaying number of Muslims around the world. Everyone expected that it would draw more Muslims to bin Laden's cause and that more such attacks would follow. In fact, though, what happened was quite different: the pace of successful jihadist attacks against the United States slowed, decelerated further after the onset of the Iraq war, and has now dwindled to essentially zero. Here is the record:

2002
October: Diplomat Laurence Foley murdered in Jordan, in an operation planned, directed and financed by Zarqawi in Iraq, perhaps with the complicity of Saddam's government.

2003
May: Suicide bombers killed 10 Americans, and killed and wounded many others, at housing compounds for westerners in Saudi Arabia.

October: More bombings of United States housing compounds in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killed 26 and injured 160.

2004
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.

2005
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.

2006
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.

2007
There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.

2008
So far, there have been no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad.
 
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BobbyBlueChip

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Dogs - can you provide a source for the no terrorist attacks against the US or their interests? The State department comes up with some different numbers
 

The Judge

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Gregg--Maybe the author or you could inform us precisely where A-Q is stronger?

Iraq-Yemen-Saudi-Afgan-Pakistan-Lybia :shrug:
Did you even bother to read the article? Anyone who did would clearly understand that he is talking about Pakistan.
I do like his last line--in article however

"Stay the course! " - George W. Bush, April 13, 2004
Thanks Wayne as that was actually my addition. Sorry that was not more clear.

By the way, I encourage anyone that is interested in this subject to read Mr. Jones assessment:

Counterinsurgency in Afghanistan
By: Seth G. Jones
Prepared for the Office of the Secretary of Defense
 
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gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
"al qaeda is stronger than before 9/11"....i keep reading this in the liberal newspapers and media outlets and i don`t see any proof...

they`re in the midst of suffering a strategic defeat in iraq......a battlefield their own leaders claimed was "the major front" in their war to keep the middle east in the dark ages...

they can't launch attacks beyond their regional lairs.....

bin laden can't show his face ....if he`s even alive...

yeah,they can still murder innocents on their home court. ....personally i find that preferrable to them killing americans in manhattan and washington...

currently in iraq,all qaeda's been beaten down to violent-fugitive status.....

and pakistan`s new,not entirely america-friendly gov`t is getting a little sick of the taliban`s shit as of this post...


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=15&entry_id=27694

good...keep `em busy,pakistan..

what`s the measurement that indicates al qaeda is stronger today than it was when it had an entire country for its base and its tentacles reached all the way to florida and the midwest? ...

the measurement is that the media,or left wingers in the defense dept or cia(which bush failed to remove,in an incerdibly stupid move when he took office) says it`s so....and it`s useful in their diminution of bush and in their efforts to link bush and mccain...

when they hit us again,we can revisit the issue...

it`ll be interesting to see how extreme obama`s roll back on the patriot act and surveillance procedures will be....

lets see if obama can keep the homeland secure....i know you guys will feel better when you`re sure bushitler isn`t peeking into your personal bidness(you`re so important)....
 

The Judge

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"al qaeda is stronger than before 9/11"....i keep reading this in the liberal newspapers and media outlets and i don`t see any proof...
Clearly you have blinders on and do not want to believe what every expert on the subject is saying. Here is a link to 567 articles on the subject so knock yourself out.

Al Qaeda in Pakistan

How soon we forget that these were the animals that attacked our country, killing thousands yet the current administration's focus has been on Iraq instead of eliminating the real threat. Here is what the Pakistani Ambasador has to say about our "efforts" in the regeion:

Pakistani ambassador: U.S. diplomacy a 'complete failure'
By: Jon Ward
The Washington Times

Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, came to The Washington Times today for an interview with editors and reporters. He answered questions about the new government in Islamabad, its efforts to do more against al Qaeda and the Taliban on their border with Afghanistan, and the hunt for al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. A partial transcript of my question to the ambassador, and his answer, is below:

Q: We talk a lot in the U.S. about getting Osama bin Laden. It's important to the Bush administration; it's important to a lot of people, apparently, in the U.S. public. Is it important to the Pakistani people?

A: It is important to the Pakistani government that anyone who is a symbol of global terrorism should not be allowed to operate from any part of Pakistan or any of its neighboring countries. The Pakistani people have a different view. There is a complete failure of U.S. public diplomacy in the Muslim world, of persuading people of the U.S. case, which to me is a very good case. But somehow there has been a weakness in communicating to the Muslim people that Osama bin Laden is an enemy of Islam, and Muslims, as much as he is an enemy of the United States, or terrorism is an enemy of Islam and Muslims as much as terrorism threatens the United States. . . .

Right after 9/11, the U.S. made an effort. I don?t know how many of you remember Dennis Ross going and speaking in Arabic on al Jazeera, making the case. But who?s is making the case now? U.S. officials are not always available to people for briefings. It?s more important to them to talk to the American media than it is to talk to the Arab media or the Persian-language media or the Urdu-language media. And so, supporters of bin Laden in the meantime are very active. So basically in psychological warfare, bin Laden has made more gains than he should have been allowed to make. And that is the reason why there is confusion.
 

THE KOD

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Is Osama bin Laden Dying ... Again?

Monday, Jun. 30, 2008 By MASSIMO

Nothing has characterized the fruitlessness of the hunt for the al-Qaeda leader so much as the recurrent ? and mostly inaccurate ? reports that he is seriously ailing, or even at death's door. In 2002, Pakistan's leader, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, said Bin Laden had kidney disease, and had required a dialysis machine when he lived in Afghanistan. That same year, the FBI's top counterterrorism official, Dale Watson, said, "I personally think he is probably not with us anymore." Since then, of course, bin Laden has appeared on multiple videos, looking healthier than ever.

Now, the CIA has produced a report saying that bin Laden has long-term kidney disease, and may have only months to live, two U.S. officials familiar with the report tell TIME. The agency ostensibly managed to get the names of some of the medications bin Laden is taking, and one U.S. official familiar with the report, which came out between six and nine months ago, says it concluded, "Based on his current pharmaceutical intake [we] would expect that he has no more than six to 18 months to live and impending kidney failure."

That prognosis, along with some on-the-ground intelligence and a well-aimed Hellfire missile, will get you a dead terrorist leader. Close watchers of the al-Qaeda terror network find such reports inherently unreliable. "It's trying to make a diagnosis from thousands of miles away with only fragments of the medical chart," says Paul Pillar, former top analyst and deputy director of the CIA's counterterrorism center, who now teaches at Georgetown University. Says Frances Fragos Townsend, who stepped down last November as chief of President George W. Bush's Homeland Security Council, "I've read all the same conflicting reports [on bin Laden's health] that people have talked to you about. I never found one set of reporting more persuasive than another."

The CIA, for its part, is disavowing the claims attributed to the report. "I have found no one here familiar with this alleged report or the analytic line it supposedly conveys," says Paul Gimigliano, a CIA spokesman. "The fact that anonymous sources attribute views to the CIA is not, by itself, reason to believe the agency actually holds those views," he says.

If bin Laden's really is dying, the news would doubtless be greeted with some ambivalence. On the one hand, his demise is what the U.S. government has been fervently trying to hasten since before 9/11. But death by kidney disease is not exactly what it had in mind. "Wouldn't that be a tragic situation if, with all this effort, bin Laden died without it happening at the hands of coalition forces?" says one current senior counterterrorism official. Given the reliability of past long-distance diagnoses, however, and the continuing threat al-Qaeda poses around the world, that may be the least of America's worries.

.........................................................

I guess we can hope the rat bastid dies, thats better than hoping Bush will get him anytime soon.

I still say he is in Iran. Al Sadr , Bin Laden, they are no differant. Iran has been hiding and supporting terrorists for many years.
 

The Judge

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"Wouldn't that be a tragic situation if, with all this effort, bin Laden died without it happening at the hands of coalition forces?" says one current senior counterterrorism official.
Based on the progress that the current administration has made at leaving "no stone unturned", he will likely die of old age.

"Stay the course!" - George W. Bush
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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DOGS THAT BARK

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Clearly you have blinders on and do not want to believe what every expert on the subject is saying. Here is a link to 567 articles on the subject so knock yourself out.

Al Qaeda in Pakistan

How soon we forget that these were the animals that attacked our country, killing thousands yet the current administration's focus has been on Iraq instead of eliminating the real threat. Here is what the Pakistani Ambasador has to say about our "efforts" in the regeion:

Pakistani ambassador: U.S. diplomacy a 'complete failure'
By: Jon Ward
The Washington Times

Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, came to The Washington Times today for an interview with editors and reporters. He answered questions about the new government in Islamabad, its efforts to do more against al Qaeda and the Taliban on their border with Afghanistan, and the hunt for al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. A partial transcript of my question to the ambassador, and his answer, is below:

Q: We talk a lot in the U.S. about getting Osama bin Laden. It's important to the Bush administration; it's important to a lot of people, apparently, in the U.S. public. Is it important to the Pakistani people?

A: It is important to the Pakistani government that anyone who is a symbol of global terrorism should not be allowed to operate from any part of Pakistan or any of its neighboring countries. The Pakistani people have a different view. There is a complete failure of U.S. public diplomacy in the Muslim world, of persuading people of the U.S. case, which to me is a very good case. But somehow there has been a weakness in communicating to the Muslim people that Osama bin Laden is an enemy of Islam, and Muslims, as much as he is an enemy of the United States, or terrorism is an enemy of Islam and Muslims as much as terrorism threatens the United States. . . .

Right after 9/11, the U.S. made an effort. I don?t know how many of you remember Dennis Ross going and speaking in Arabic on al Jazeera, making the case. But who?s is making the case now? U.S. officials are not always available to people for briefings. It?s more important to them to talk to the American media than it is to talk to the Arab media or the Persian-language media or the Urdu-language media. And so, supporters of bin Laden in the meantime are very active. So basically in psychological warfare, bin Laden has made more gains than he should have been allowed to make. And that is the reason why there is confusion.

Got to ask you this Gregg--do you think A-Q is stronger now than 2000-2001 ?
 

The Judge

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Got to ask you this Gregg--do you think A-Q is stronger now than 2000-2001 ?
Based on the overwhelming number of reports I have read over the last 24 hours, from people that know one hell of a lot more than I do on the subject, I have to believe that at least in Pakistan, yes they are. And while the New York Times story was what brought the matter to my attention, most of the sources of this conclusion are highly credible in my eyes. By the way, I have found very few dissenting opinions.

I also believe that it should not be a surprise to anyone that our intense focus on Iraq has been misplaced from the beginning and I think that most Americans would agree that the LACK of focus on the true enemy in Afganistan (and now Pakistan) is unforgivable.

Wayne, I am curious to hear your opinion on the report by Jones that was prepared for the Secretary of Defense. :shrug:
 

BobbyBlueChip

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I'll look --in the mean time you can provide us with your #'s ;)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.nypost.com/seven/0530200...s/w_vs__terror__somethings_working_113136.htm

Still waiting on yours

Maybe I should have asked where your blogger got his numbers. You'd have been much more skeptical if you saw that at moveon.org

Here's the latest summary from the state department 2007

U.S. citizens worldwide killed as a result of incidents of terrorism: 19
U.S. citizens worldwide injured as a result of incidents of terrorism: 0
U.S. citizens worldwide kidnapped as a result of incidents of terrorism: 17

In all cases limited to incidents targeting noncombatants.

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2007/103716.htm
 

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/06/jeddah.attack/index.html

Al Qaeda-linked group takes credit for Saudi attack
At least 5 employees killed in assault on U.S. Consulate
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 Posted: 6:36 AM EST (1136 GMT)


Smoke rises in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on Monday.
Image:



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Saudi Arabia's al Qaeda wing claims responsibility for the Jeddah attack.

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Attack on U.S. Consulate in Saudi Arabia leaves several dead.

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(CNN) -- A Saudi group linked to al Qaeda claimed responsibility early Tuesday for the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, in which at least five employees and four attackers were killed.

The claim of responsibility was posted on several Islamist Web sites often used by militants. Its authenticity could not be immediately verified.

A U.S. State Department official told CNN that al Qaeda was suspected in the attack.

Asked who the gunmen were, the Saudi Interior Ministry official said they were "wanted" but it was unclear if they were al Qaeda members.

Saudi forces killed three of the gunmen and captured two others, both of whom were wounded, the Saudi Interior Ministry said. One of gunmen later died, and the other gunman was in critical condition, a Saudi source said Tuesday.

Five consular employees -- four local staff members and a contract guard -- were also killed. Four other local staff members were injured and recovering in hospitals, U.S. officials said.

The group that claimed responsibility called itself the Qaeda al Jihad in the Arabian Peninsula.

In the Internet post, the group said, "this operation comes as part of several operations that are organized and planned by al Qaeda as part of the battle against the crusaders and the Jews, as well as part of the plan to force the unbelievers to leave the Arabian Peninsula."

The group said its fighters "managed to enter one of the crusaders' big castles in the Arabian Peninsula and managed to enter the American consulate in Jeddah, in which they control and run the country."

It said the fighters killed nine employees of the consulate, including two Americans, and seven Saudi soldiers.

The U.S. Embassy said no Americans were killed or seriously injured.

The group said two of its fighters were killed and that others escaped unharmed.

The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh, as well as the consulates in Jeddah and Dhahran, will be closed Tuesday because of the incident, according to a warden's message distributed to Americans living in Saudi Arabia.

The message also encourages Americans to "exercise utmost security precautions" in the wake of the attack.

In Washington, President Bush said the incident showed "terrorists are still on the move" trying to get the United States to leave Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

The Interior Ministry said the militants threw explosives at two gates of the sprawling, walled consulate and then entered, exchanging fire with guards.

A senior Saudi official in Washington said an unknown number of third-country nationals who work at the consulate were taken hostage for a time. Some suffered wounds but all were released. A U.S. Embassy spokeswoman said no Americans had been taken hostage.

The Saudi official said they believe a grenade was "thrown in as a diversion." The attackers "stormed into part of the consulate" known as the visa section, where they took the third-country nationals hostage.

A reporter who went to the scene, Mohammed Al-Khereiji of the newspaper Asharq al-Awsat, said that the attackers entered through the south gate, where mail is delivered to the consulate. He said grenades were used and a fire broke out in the compound but was later extinguished.

A senior Bush administration official said there was gunfire, an explosion and then more gunfire as the attack was launched about 11:15 a.m. (3:15 a.m. ET).

In April, the State Department ordered "nonemergency employees and all dependents of the U.S. Embassy Riyadh and Consulates General Jeddah and Dhahran ... to leave the country," because of security concerns, and urged Americans to defer travel to the kingdom.

As recently as August, a vehicle from the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah was hit by gunfire from a single assailant while driving in the city. The two occupants of the vehicle -- the driver and a consulate American employee, were not injured in the attack.

Al Qaeda-led suicide attacks struck Riyadh housing compounds in May and July of 2003, killing 40 people, most of them Muslims.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Based on the overwhelming number of reports I have read over the last 24 hours, from people that know one hell of a lot more than I do on the subject, I have to believe that at least in Pakistan, yes they are. And while the New York Times story was what brought the matter to my attention, most of the sources of this conclusion are highly credible in my eyes. By the way, I have found very few dissenting opinions.

I also believe that it should not be a surprise to anyone that our intense focus on Iraq has been misplaced from the beginning and I think that most Americans would agree that the LACK of focus on the true enemy in Afganistan (and now Pakistan) is unforgivable.

Wayne, I am curious to hear your opinion on the report by Jones that was prepared for the Secretary of Defense. :shrug:

My thoughts Gregg are that AQ has been pushed into Pakistan as there is no where else to go that they are not hunted. When you have bulk in Afgan under Taliban and they are ran out--the survivors are going to congregate at area of least resistance which is tribal areas across border--for now. Couldn't think of better place for them if Pakistan continues to do what they have the past week. They are getting pinched from all sides.
Another area they might be getting stronger in is Africa--per the difficulty to find them there--and few resources to do so. But for most part they are not only being driven out in most area's where they once traveled freely but hunted.

believe most in their old stomping grounds have had it with their random killing of fellow muslims.

Just my opinion--and always enjoy/look forward to yours.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/06/jeddah.attack/index.html

Al Qaeda-linked group takes credit for Saudi attack
At least 5 employees killed in assault on U.S. Consulate
Tuesday, December 7, 2004 Posted: 6:36 AM EST (1136 GMT)


Smoke rises in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on Monday.
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Saudi Arabia's al Qaeda wing claims responsibility for the Jeddah attack.

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Attack on U.S. Consulate in Saudi Arabia leaves several dead.

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(CNN) -- A Saudi group linked to al Qaeda claimed responsibility early Tuesday for the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, in which at least five employees and four attackers were killed.

The claim of responsibility was posted on several Islamist Web sites often used by militants. Its authenticity could not be immediately verified.

A U.S. State Department official told CNN that al Qaeda was suspected in the attack.

Asked who the gunmen were, the Saudi Interior Ministry official said they were "wanted" but it was unclear if they were al Qaeda members.

Saudi forces killed three of the gunmen and captured two others, both of whom were wounded, the Saudi Interior Ministry said. One of gunmen later died, and the other gunman was in critical condition, a Saudi source said Tuesday.

Five consular employees -- four local staff members and a contract guard -- were also killed. Four other local staff members were injured and recovering in hospitals, U.S. officials said.

The group that claimed responsibility called itself the Qaeda al Jihad in the Arabian Peninsula.

In the Internet post, the group said, "this operation comes as part of several operations that are organized and planned by al Qaeda as part of the battle against the crusaders and the Jews, as well as part of the plan to force the unbelievers to leave the Arabian Peninsula."

The group said its fighters "managed to enter one of the crusaders' big castles in the Arabian Peninsula and managed to enter the American consulate in Jeddah, in which they control and run the country."

It said the fighters killed nine employees of the consulate, including two Americans, and seven Saudi soldiers.

The U.S. Embassy said no Americans were killed or seriously injured.The group said two of its fighters were killed and that others escaped unharmed.

The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh, as well as the consulates in Jeddah and Dhahran, will be closed Tuesday because of the incident, according to a warden's message distributed to Americans living in Saudi Arabia.

The message also encourages Americans to "exercise utmost security precautions" in the wake of the attack.

In Washington, President Bush said the incident showed "terrorists are still on the move" trying to get the United States to leave Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

The Interior Ministry said the militants threw explosives at two gates of the sprawling, walled consulate and then entered, exchanging fire with guards.

A senior Saudi official in Washington said an unknown number of third-country nationals who work at the consulate were taken hostage for a time. Some suffered wounds but all were released. A U.S. Embassy spokeswoman said no Americans had been taken hostage.

The Saudi official said they believe a grenade was "thrown in as a diversion." The attackers "stormed into part of the consulate" known as the visa section, where they took the third-country nationals hostage.

A reporter who went to the scene, Mohammed Al-Khereiji of the newspaper Asharq al-Awsat, said that the attackers entered through the south gate, where mail is delivered to the consulate. He said grenades were used and a fire broke out in the compound but was later extinguished.

A senior Bush administration official said there was gunfire, an explosion and then more gunfire as the attack was launched about 11:15 a.m. (3:15 a.m. ET).

In April, the State Department ordered "nonemergency employees and all dependents of the U.S. Embassy Riyadh and Consulates General Jeddah and Dhahran ... to leave the country," because of security concerns, and urged Americans to defer travel to the kingdom.

As recently as August, a vehicle from the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah was hit by gunfire from a single assailant while driving in the city. The two occupants of the vehicle -- the driver and a consulate American employee, were not injured in the attack.

Al Qaeda-led suicide attacks struck Riyadh housing compounds in May and July of 2003, killing 40 people, most of them Muslims.

Don't see where americans were killed-

Did like your other source--but believe if you had also included chart directly below the one you posted it would have shed more light on them being in war zone.

Although every effort was made to include all terrorism-related deaths and injuries involving private U.S. citizens, the figures below reflect only those cases reported to, or known by, the U.S. Department of State, and may not reflect actual numbers of injured, which may not always be reported depending on their severity. As NCTC also notes, in the cases of Iraq and Afghanistan, it is particularly difficult to gather comprehensive information about all incidents and to distinguish terrorism from the numerous other forms of violence.

U.S. citizens worldwide killed as a result of incidents of terrorism: 19
U.S. citizens worldwide injured as a result of incidents of terrorism: 0
U.S. citizens worldwide kidnapped as a result of incidents of terrorism: 17

In all cases limited to incidents targeting noncombatants.
TERRORISM DEATHS OF PRIVATE U.S. CITIZENS IN 2007 (BY COUNTRY)

Country
Date of Incident
Number
Location

Afghanistan
February 27
1
Bagram

June 28
1
Pol-i-Charki

Iraq
January 17
1
Baghdad

January 18
1
Baghdad

January 23
5
Baghdad

March 27
1
Baghdad

March 31
1
Diwaniyah

June 12
2
Baquba, near Tikrit

July 19
1
Baghdad

September 18
1
Baghdad

November 26
1
Baghdad

December 9
3
Al Kut
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I will say author should have noted war zones and didn't--surprised not more civilains were killed/kidnapped in that area.
 
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BobbyBlueChip

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I'm assuming based on your response that you believe that the statemente "There were no successful attacks inside the United States or against American interests abroad."

I'm not even going to get into the fact that I believe US troops represent an American interest, but you think it's still true? A US Consulate isn't an interest?
 
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