looks like the kid will get to sit and watch for his rookie campain..it should help him develop nicely!!
warner vs eli
- Thread starter bej0101
- Start date
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I agree except for one problem:
The Giants were 8 million under the cap and they gave Warner 3 million. That leaves 5 million if no one else is signed.
Eli will spit at 5 million. He will be hard to sign.
I agree except for one problem:
The Giants were 8 million under the cap and they gave Warner 3 million. That leaves 5 million if no one else is signed.
Eli will spit at 5 million. He will be hard to sign.
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How about this irony:
Eli holds out until next years draft.
The Chargers will have the worst record and get the #1 pick.
They trade Eli again and get a whole lot of picks.
How about this irony:
Eli holds out until next years draft.
The Chargers will have the worst record and get the #1 pick.
They trade Eli again and get a whole lot of picks.
F' THE CHARGERS. THE GIANTS ARE TERRIBLE AND STUPID. REGARDLESS, THE CHARGERS DO VERY WELL AGAIN NEXT YEAR AS THE GIANTS WILL EARN THEM ANOTHER TOP 5 PICK.
If I were the Giants I'd completely start over at QB. Eli is a wuss and Warner will never be the same.
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The Rams would not let any team see Warner throw the football before they cut him, when they were hoping for a trade. That should have set up millions of RED FLAGS to all teams. Warner has a problem in his hand that can not be readily identifiable thru a physical exam. Something in his hand must be changing with the extreme pressure of throwing a football.
From Pro Football Weekly:
"Shockey?s injury is only one of the adversities Tom Coughlin has faced in his first five months as head coach. QB Kurt Warner, presumably signed to serve as the starter until QB-of-the-future Eli Manning is ready, has struggled. Warner blames his fluttering passes and slow start on his unfamiliarity with the new offense, but his impatience with his performance has been evident. Manning, meanwhile, is improving slowly, setting the stage for arguably the most intriguing QB battle in the NFL when training camps commence at the end of July."
The Giants received damaged goods when they signed Warner. His hand will never be 100%. Because it was not a trade, they can't nullify the deal. Warner received a 1.5 million signing bonus which is gone. Plus a 1.5 million for this year
The Giants ended up spending 3 million on a player that shouldn't start and has proven in the past that he is not a teacher. All he will offer is bible studies. If Warner hits his hand again, it may be the IR.
The Giants ended up throwing away 3 million dollars that they could have given to sign Eli Manning.
Warner has a bad hand, the practices in his stadium are on grass and outside for the first time, the worse he practices the more money Manning will want, and he is facing the worst media if he struggles.
I can't blame Warner. He worked in a grocery store for awhile. 3 million dollars plus probable retirement after this year will go a long way. Take the money and run.
The Rams would not let any team see Warner throw the football before they cut him, when they were hoping for a trade. That should have set up millions of RED FLAGS to all teams. Warner has a problem in his hand that can not be readily identifiable thru a physical exam. Something in his hand must be changing with the extreme pressure of throwing a football.
From Pro Football Weekly:
"Shockey?s injury is only one of the adversities Tom Coughlin has faced in his first five months as head coach. QB Kurt Warner, presumably signed to serve as the starter until QB-of-the-future Eli Manning is ready, has struggled. Warner blames his fluttering passes and slow start on his unfamiliarity with the new offense, but his impatience with his performance has been evident. Manning, meanwhile, is improving slowly, setting the stage for arguably the most intriguing QB battle in the NFL when training camps commence at the end of July."
The Giants received damaged goods when they signed Warner. His hand will never be 100%. Because it was not a trade, they can't nullify the deal. Warner received a 1.5 million signing bonus which is gone. Plus a 1.5 million for this year
The Giants ended up spending 3 million on a player that shouldn't start and has proven in the past that he is not a teacher. All he will offer is bible studies. If Warner hits his hand again, it may be the IR.
The Giants ended up throwing away 3 million dollars that they could have given to sign Eli Manning.
Warner has a bad hand, the practices in his stadium are on grass and outside for the first time, the worse he practices the more money Manning will want, and he is facing the worst media if he struggles.
I can't blame Warner. He worked in a grocery store for awhile. 3 million dollars plus probable retirement after this year will go a long way. Take the money and run.
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The Giants are a mess.
--Manning has not signed yet and as Warner struggles, Eli will want more and more money.
--The O-Line was a mess last year and should be as bad this year. They have a little more experience, but they let their best young lineman (Bober) go to SF.
--Whoever is the QB is therefore in grave danger.
--Also the RBs. If Barber starts fumbling again, disaster.
--McBride is the QB coach and that alone is enough to bring disaster.
--TE Shockey, a great TE, has a chronic foot problem. He just had surgery, but it may never be right.
*****
AND THAT IS THE OFFENSE, PROBABLY THE BEST UNIT.
The Giant offense is lucky that they are not facing any above average defenses this year (ex BAL). (the Eagles lost TOO many D players and the Cowboys did it with a blitz gimic that was exposed in the playoffs)
--The Giants lost six (6) of the seven starters on the front seven from last year. LDE Strahan is back (unhappy because he can see the problems) and the Giants signed Carlos Emmons -LOLB- from the Eagles. The left side is OK but the middle and right side are extremely suspect. They signed bodies to fill the spots, but they are temp at best.
--Plus there is absolutely no starting depth on the front seven at all.
--The strength of the D unit is the secondary. However, the teams the Giants are playing have good QBs and above average offenses. Without a strong front seven, the D will have immense problems.
The best chance for a win will be week 3 CLE (QB Garcia and good WRs), week 6 DET (QB Harrington and young/fast WRs) and week 8 CHI (not much)
This team has the potential to be so bad that the press may ignore them altogether.
The Giants are a mess.
--Manning has not signed yet and as Warner struggles, Eli will want more and more money.
--The O-Line was a mess last year and should be as bad this year. They have a little more experience, but they let their best young lineman (Bober) go to SF.
--Whoever is the QB is therefore in grave danger.
--Also the RBs. If Barber starts fumbling again, disaster.
--McBride is the QB coach and that alone is enough to bring disaster.
--TE Shockey, a great TE, has a chronic foot problem. He just had surgery, but it may never be right.
*****
AND THAT IS THE OFFENSE, PROBABLY THE BEST UNIT.
The Giant offense is lucky that they are not facing any above average defenses this year (ex BAL). (the Eagles lost TOO many D players and the Cowboys did it with a blitz gimic that was exposed in the playoffs)
--The Giants lost six (6) of the seven starters on the front seven from last year. LDE Strahan is back (unhappy because he can see the problems) and the Giants signed Carlos Emmons -LOLB- from the Eagles. The left side is OK but the middle and right side are extremely suspect. They signed bodies to fill the spots, but they are temp at best.
--Plus there is absolutely no starting depth on the front seven at all.
--The strength of the D unit is the secondary. However, the teams the Giants are playing have good QBs and above average offenses. Without a strong front seven, the D will have immense problems.
The best chance for a win will be week 3 CLE (QB Garcia and good WRs), week 6 DET (QB Harrington and young/fast WRs) and week 8 CHI (not much)
This team has the potential to be so bad that the press may ignore them altogether.
It seems as though none of you have closely followed the Giants the last 5-7 years. When everyone had them tabbed last year as Super Bowl contenders I kept saying that this was .500 team at best. This year nothing at all will be expected yet I think they can be a .500 team again. The Giants underachieve when expectations are high and overacheive when they are left for dead.
Coughlin will not accept the older players to slack off as they did the last 8 games of the season last year. By no means is this a playoff contending team but it is FAR better than a 4-12 team last year. A healthy secondary as was mentioned will help but the D-Line is a bigger concern than anything else. And to say that the press is going to ignore them is a silly statement. Perhaps in a small-town market but nothing escapes the media in NY. The only thing the press loves more than a Big Winner is a Big Loser...
Either way the NFC East will be the most entertaining division to watch with any of the 4 teams having a shot at winning...
Coughlin will not accept the older players to slack off as they did the last 8 games of the season last year. By no means is this a playoff contending team but it is FAR better than a 4-12 team last year. A healthy secondary as was mentioned will help but the D-Line is a bigger concern than anything else. And to say that the press is going to ignore them is a silly statement. Perhaps in a small-town market but nothing escapes the media in NY. The only thing the press loves more than a Big Winner is a Big Loser...
Either way the NFC East will be the most entertaining division to watch with any of the 4 teams having a shot at winning...
bigdad2
Good. This is the reason I start the threads, to get discussion. No one has a lock on info. Also, its impossible to closely follow more than a few teams.
So what eight games (or more) do you feel the Giants will win (and why)?
Good. This is the reason I start the threads, to get discussion. No one has a lock on info. Also, its impossible to closely follow more than a few teams.
So what eight games (or more) do you feel the Giants will win (and why)?
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Manning mania
The Manning family nickname for Giants quarterback Eli Manning is "Easy." Apparently, he earned the name from being so cool and relaxed about everything. No word if brother Peyton's is "Polite" or if father Archie's is "Awesome."
Manning mania
The Manning family nickname for Giants quarterback Eli Manning is "Easy." Apparently, he earned the name from being so cool and relaxed about everything. No word if brother Peyton's is "Polite" or if father Archie's is "Awesome."
Sounds as if the Giants management screwed themselves between trading to get Eli and then signing a bad handed Warner........I thought Eli was a punk the way he acted on Draft Day, now you're telling me he may hold out after the Giants did him a favor and traded for him......Yep, he's a punk......I'll give four years and he'll be out of the League
broondog quote:"Yep, he's a punk......I'll give four years and he'll be out of the League"
as a long time giants fan, i don't like to see any rookies hold out. it's not beneficial to either the player or the team.
but, for all of those who think eli will fail or be out of the league in a few years are grossly mistaken.
first, look at the pedigree. true, although archie & peyton were/are great qb's, doesn't mean that eli will be one. but i think it is safe to assume that eli will be an above averaged qb, at worst. i would think that both dad & bro will work on any flaws that they see in eli.
also look at eli's mechanics & arm. he throws the ball from the top, & not sidearm or 3/4. he also can throw the deep out & the post well.
people may not like how he manipulated the draft, which is fine. but he wasn't the first to do so & probably won't be the last.
but he faced top competition in college & made those around him better then they were.
when his creer is over, eli will show that he was a top notch qb.
as a long time giants fan, i don't like to see any rookies hold out. it's not beneficial to either the player or the team.
but, for all of those who think eli will fail or be out of the league in a few years are grossly mistaken.
first, look at the pedigree. true, although archie & peyton were/are great qb's, doesn't mean that eli will be one. but i think it is safe to assume that eli will be an above averaged qb, at worst. i would think that both dad & bro will work on any flaws that they see in eli.
also look at eli's mechanics & arm. he throws the ball from the top, & not sidearm or 3/4. he also can throw the deep out & the post well.
people may not like how he manipulated the draft, which is fine. but he wasn't the first to do so & probably won't be the last.
but he faced top competition in college & made those around him better then they were.
when his creer is over, eli will show that he was a top notch qb.
i agree thet eli will become an excellent pro qb..the competition in the sec will serve him well in the pros and he always seemed to bring his best for the big games..though if warner is healthy, and i believe he is,eli will sit alot this season so the holdout really won't hurt him too much as he would only get limited playing time anyway..
4bubba - First off I wanted to say that although few people post it there are many of us who appreciate what you do in this thread. I have been at MJ's for quite some time and often don't say something unless I am betting in NCAAFB, have an angle, opinion or disagree.
If there is anything to learn from betting the NFL the past 4-5 years it is that any team can win ANY game ANY where. While the preseason got off to a rocky start Coughlin will come in and shape things up. Anyone remember the Ray Handley nightmare season for the Giants? The next year Dan Reeves came in and the team went 9-6-1 and turned things around quickly. While no TRUE Giant fan believes that quickly a miracle can happen this team has talent at key positions. The offense has explosive players like Shockey, Toomer, Hilliard and Barber. It has not been a question of talent, even with Barber's fumbling problems, but rather the O-line coming together. Last year the Giants were starting rookies or 2nd year players and the result was Collins get the s**t kicked out of him all year. Palmer looked bad because he had NO protection. This year the Giants brought in Stokes and O'Hara from CLE and Ellis from SD. In 2000 the Giants brought in Lomas Brown and Glenn Parker who were unheralded signings at the start of camp. These aren't All-Pro guys but they are veteran guys who can help anchor a line which is all NY can ask. If anything the beating the young guys took last year can only help going forward. Petitgut, Lucier, Allen and Diehl give depth to the team which has been decimated by injuries and FA the past 3 years.
The team's biggest concern is DL as I stated before. This was not at all adressed in the draft or the off-season with the loss of retired Hamilton leaving a gaping hole to fill. Yes, NY signed a bunch of veteran guys (Norman Hand, Fred Robbins, Martin Chase, Glen Steele) but there is no upgrade from what the unit had last year. Unless one of these guys has a career year or they make an acquisition before the season starts this is arguably the biggest area to deal with going forward. William Joseph, the team?s 1st round pick last year, has looked like a bust so far and it will be interesting to see if and how he responds.
Looking at the schedule although I said any team can win anywhere the Giants seem to not be able to beat Philly, especially in Philly. There are many ?IF?s? for all team but we?ll take a worst-case scenario and say the team stays somewhat healthy in looking at the schedule. Many, including myself, felt the Giants season was over when Westbrook returned the punt against NY last year. That being said I still think the Giants will give the young Eagle defense all they can handle and would bet on the Giants getting the points but not for them to win. A home-opener the following week against the Redskins could go either way but let's look at talent alone and WAS has more. 0-2. Cleveland is the first winnable game as they possibly chalk up the first W. 1-2. Typically the Giants win at least one game on the road each year that they aren?t supposed to or have supposedly no chance. They shouldn?t be favored and probably won?t win either the Packers game OR the Dallas game so now we are at 1-4 WORST-CASE headed into the bye.
I truly believe Coughlin will not only get the most of his players but have them believing that they can win. If they are at this point in the season looking at the schedule they can easily improve. DET is a winnable game. 2-4. @MINN might be asking too much considering NY took them behind the woodshed last year 2-5. Here is where it gets interesting from a fan?s perspective: Fassel had an outstanding record with the G-Men in December games during his tenure. I could see the same pattern happening with Coughlin BUT starting in November. With Chicago, Arizona, Atlanta and Philly NY should be able to win 3 of 4 putting them at 5-6 conservatively. I actually believe they will be 6-6 after the Redskins game. If you believe they can?t win on the road and lose to BAL and CIN but beat PIT and DAL at home that puts them at 8-8. I?m basically saying they go 6-2 at home and win @ARZ and @WAS OR @DAL. That?s what a .500 team has to do. Win 75% of your home games and two road games. The playoff teams and Super Bowl contenders go 4-4 on the road and 6-2 or 7-1 at home.
I?ll be interested to hear the thoughts and opinions of others but this is what I see?
If there is anything to learn from betting the NFL the past 4-5 years it is that any team can win ANY game ANY where. While the preseason got off to a rocky start Coughlin will come in and shape things up. Anyone remember the Ray Handley nightmare season for the Giants? The next year Dan Reeves came in and the team went 9-6-1 and turned things around quickly. While no TRUE Giant fan believes that quickly a miracle can happen this team has talent at key positions. The offense has explosive players like Shockey, Toomer, Hilliard and Barber. It has not been a question of talent, even with Barber's fumbling problems, but rather the O-line coming together. Last year the Giants were starting rookies or 2nd year players and the result was Collins get the s**t kicked out of him all year. Palmer looked bad because he had NO protection. This year the Giants brought in Stokes and O'Hara from CLE and Ellis from SD. In 2000 the Giants brought in Lomas Brown and Glenn Parker who were unheralded signings at the start of camp. These aren't All-Pro guys but they are veteran guys who can help anchor a line which is all NY can ask. If anything the beating the young guys took last year can only help going forward. Petitgut, Lucier, Allen and Diehl give depth to the team which has been decimated by injuries and FA the past 3 years.
The team's biggest concern is DL as I stated before. This was not at all adressed in the draft or the off-season with the loss of retired Hamilton leaving a gaping hole to fill. Yes, NY signed a bunch of veteran guys (Norman Hand, Fred Robbins, Martin Chase, Glen Steele) but there is no upgrade from what the unit had last year. Unless one of these guys has a career year or they make an acquisition before the season starts this is arguably the biggest area to deal with going forward. William Joseph, the team?s 1st round pick last year, has looked like a bust so far and it will be interesting to see if and how he responds.
Looking at the schedule although I said any team can win anywhere the Giants seem to not be able to beat Philly, especially in Philly. There are many ?IF?s? for all team but we?ll take a worst-case scenario and say the team stays somewhat healthy in looking at the schedule. Many, including myself, felt the Giants season was over when Westbrook returned the punt against NY last year. That being said I still think the Giants will give the young Eagle defense all they can handle and would bet on the Giants getting the points but not for them to win. A home-opener the following week against the Redskins could go either way but let's look at talent alone and WAS has more. 0-2. Cleveland is the first winnable game as they possibly chalk up the first W. 1-2. Typically the Giants win at least one game on the road each year that they aren?t supposed to or have supposedly no chance. They shouldn?t be favored and probably won?t win either the Packers game OR the Dallas game so now we are at 1-4 WORST-CASE headed into the bye.
I truly believe Coughlin will not only get the most of his players but have them believing that they can win. If they are at this point in the season looking at the schedule they can easily improve. DET is a winnable game. 2-4. @MINN might be asking too much considering NY took them behind the woodshed last year 2-5. Here is where it gets interesting from a fan?s perspective: Fassel had an outstanding record with the G-Men in December games during his tenure. I could see the same pattern happening with Coughlin BUT starting in November. With Chicago, Arizona, Atlanta and Philly NY should be able to win 3 of 4 putting them at 5-6 conservatively. I actually believe they will be 6-6 after the Redskins game. If you believe they can?t win on the road and lose to BAL and CIN but beat PIT and DAL at home that puts them at 8-8. I?m basically saying they go 6-2 at home and win @ARZ and @WAS OR @DAL. That?s what a .500 team has to do. Win 75% of your home games and two road games. The playoff teams and Super Bowl contenders go 4-4 on the road and 6-2 or 7-1 at home.
I?ll be interested to hear the thoughts and opinions of others but this is what I see?
bej0101
I am not so sure I agree with you.
The top 3 SEC teams last year were LSU, UGA, and Tenn.
Ole Miss only played 1 of the top 3 teams in the SEC last season and their OOC schedule was horrible. So what were the big games? :shrug:
Maybe you were impressed with his numbers againt the other teams Ole Miss played. Such as Arkansas St., Vandy, Lousiana Monroe, Miss. St. Texas Tech (play no defense), Memphis, Alabama, etc...
Those were some pretty bad teams Ole Miss played last season.
Ole Miss finished with a SOS ranked #52 in the country. A SOS ranked #52 out of 111 div. 1a teams is pretty bad.
Not so sure the competition Manning faced last season will serve him well in the Pros.
I am not so sure I agree with you.
The top 3 SEC teams last year were LSU, UGA, and Tenn.
Ole Miss only played 1 of the top 3 teams in the SEC last season and their OOC schedule was horrible. So what were the big games? :shrug:
Maybe you were impressed with his numbers againt the other teams Ole Miss played. Such as Arkansas St., Vandy, Lousiana Monroe, Miss. St. Texas Tech (play no defense), Memphis, Alabama, etc...
Those were some pretty bad teams Ole Miss played last season.
Ole Miss finished with a SOS ranked #52 in the country. A SOS ranked #52 out of 111 div. 1a teams is pretty bad.
Not so sure the competition Manning faced last season will serve him well in the Pros.
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eli will be fine of he does not get hurt. the talent he played with at ole miss was nothing special. besides eli, how many othedr players were drafted out of ole miss. count them on one hand - minus a finger or two. sheesh.
on the giants : if there secondary was not starting rookies at the end of last year it might have been different, but that dline needs some serious attention. strahan can not be the only good player and have very good success. the bad news is that the giants will probably struggle and those chargers will receive excellent picks next year (in additition to their perennial top five pick) from the gmen. i am really hoping i am wrong and the gmen win at least 8 games, but i don't see it. how did the giants miss the game film on warner from their game against him last year ? 6to's i think ? i don't get it. i don't dislike warner at all, but i do think he is washed up. hopefully i am wrong.:shrug:
on the giants : if there secondary was not starting rookies at the end of last year it might have been different, but that dline needs some serious attention. strahan can not be the only good player and have very good success. the bad news is that the giants will probably struggle and those chargers will receive excellent picks next year (in additition to their perennial top five pick) from the gmen. i am really hoping i am wrong and the gmen win at least 8 games, but i don't see it. how did the giants miss the game film on warner from their game against him last year ? 6to's i think ? i don't get it. i don't dislike warner at all, but i do think he is washed up. hopefully i am wrong.:shrug:
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Good comments from all. We really do need the NFL to start. I went to a couple of Arena Football games and I felt I was at the circus. It was great for the kids, but.......
Eli may be a good QB but I feel there is a problem. Peyton had talent, but it was his attitude, discipline, and desire that made him special. he is the consumate competitor. the family calls Eli "Easy" for a reason. He is the opposite from Peyton. That attitude would fit in better with the San Diego beach crowd not the "in-your-face" New Yorkers.
After he signs what should be a record rookie contract, he will have a tremendously uphill battle.
Good comments from all. We really do need the NFL to start. I went to a couple of Arena Football games and I felt I was at the circus. It was great for the kids, but.......
Eli may be a good QB but I feel there is a problem. Peyton had talent, but it was his attitude, discipline, and desire that made him special. he is the consumate competitor. the family calls Eli "Easy" for a reason. He is the opposite from Peyton. That attitude would fit in better with the San Diego beach crowd not the "in-your-face" New Yorkers.
After he signs what should be a record rookie contract, he will have a tremendously uphill battle.
when speaking of his sec career i meant his whole career and his ability to win and stay in games especially on the road with average at best talent working with him..i believe his easy attitude will serve him well with the ny media/fans and sitting the first year will be the learning curve that will setup the rest of his "soon to be" amazing career..
