Great story Chad!! Nothing more motivating than those who overcome adversity by hard work and determination. Attitude is a little thing that makes a BIG difference.
Warren Buffet is an idiot
- Thread starter gjn23
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Great story Chad!! Nothing more motivating than those who overcome adversity by hard work and determination. Attitude is a little thing that makes a BIG difference.
Here's my take/perspective on the last exchange of posts.
Lets consider where I work. It is a rubber manufacturing plant. Lots of blue collar workers. Non union. Starting pay is $8 an hour, which is embarssing considering how hard and back breaking their work can be. Those at the high end are making somewhere between $12 to $13 an hour.
Anyway, i am a white collar worker in sales/purchasing, work along side a a couple of other sales guys, our accountant/CFO, and the executive VP, who happens to be the owner's son. Everyone makes good bank, especially the cfo and exec vp, who both well exceed 6 figures in base salary, plus rake in thousands more in bonuses....bonuses which exceed the yearly pay of the workers in the back.
Just about everyone of the factory guys has a second job. One is a night custodian. One works security. A couple of them pull night shifts at another local plant. I could go on. Most of their wives that I can think of off the top of my head have jobs of some sort.
The white collar guys are all republicans--the cfo is rabid, listens to rush in his office, flew our flag at half mast when they lost in 2006--and all of them remain ardent supporters of this president. The guys in the back are fairly apolitical, but they have a strong sense that the "man" is no friend of theirs and many support the president out of war concerns.
But this commentary is not so much about actual political beliefs. Here is what it is about.
My white collar colleagues constantly rail against the lack of work ethic in the country. You know who gets the brunt of their scorn? Remarkably, the guys in the back. The CFO actually said they were lucky because they did not have to pay taxes. Talk about a load of crap. Of course, they do pay taxes....their paychecks--small in comparision to us white collar dudes--are pillaged. They complain all the time about nobody in the back is willing to work, bitch a holy fit if they go a few minutes over their lunch and the salespeople bemoan how slow they work......at least once a day I hear a complaint about our lazy workforce....of course, none of them seem to have a problem spending time surfing the net reading about their favorite teams (one a cincy fan, the other GB, they read team blogs throughout the day, as do I.....such a hypocrite, I know :shrug: ) or spending most of the morning drinking coffee and talking with one another...or taking half days to golf...meanwhile, the back of plant, the guys just keep plugging away going from order to order.
I say trade places for a day jack asses......well i dont really say that, as i am not one for too much office arguing.......i take a run most days after work and get some of that stench out of me......anyway, back to the story......
As i see it, our tax system helps these white collar people....i have no problem with that.....but it is at the expense of the workers in the back.....thats where i have a problem.....the system enables the people with the most money with lots of avenues to save and invest...again, not a problem....it does not offer too many ooportunities, you could argue it offers none to the guys in the back...again, thats my problem with the systme......we white collars can take our bonuses, in some cases tax free and invest them in some cases tax free.....the $200 end of year bonuses we gave the guys in the back this year, our CFO put on their pay checks, where they were summarily taxed.....we can alter our pay to minimize taxes; they can not, they are stuck with that pay check where Uncle Sam clearly see what they make and take a big bite out of it.
I guess I just get a kick out of people who sit on their buts listening to talk radio and surfiing the net can bitch about a lazy workforce that in many cases takes a second job just to make ends meet. And then claim those folks are lucky because they dont get taxed. Folks, the income tax is not the only one out there....everybody who works and consumes pays taxes, and when you consider all the federal and state taxes, we already have a de facto flat tax where everybody in some form or another gets the same percentage of their income devoted to the concept of tax.
Our tax system, our government, our economy rewards wealth, not work......and i see that play out everyday at the place I work.
So sorry for the rant and the disorganized thoughts above....still figuring out how to be an effective poster here, and do so without creating a flame war.....we have too many of those in our society today and I think it hurts us as we try to come up with true policies that helps the sommon good.
One last thing.....here in Toledo, everybody is abuzz about tomorrow's big UM-OSU game.....we are city divided and close to the action......some of the guys in the back had a party planned.......of course, they were told they have to put in a day work tomorrow....news came down yesterday.....CFO said if we dont, we lose a big customer, everybody out of a job, and if they quit, fine, we'll just go out and hire mexicans to replace you.....so, they all are working, some, though worked last night and again tonight, in hopes that they can come in tomorrow get the job done in a few hours in the morning and watch the game.
The CFO....he left today at noon for Florida....we'll see him after thanksgiving.....the exec vp/owner boy, he'll be at the game.....but, i cant point too many fingers here as I have season tix up there and we'll be there too.......but what a crappy way for that to go down......I guess that means they will have earned the $200 end of year bonus, though :shrug:
Oops, for the rant again. Now, back to your regularily scheduled college football weekend, where all buckeyes must die :SIB
Lets consider where I work. It is a rubber manufacturing plant. Lots of blue collar workers. Non union. Starting pay is $8 an hour, which is embarssing considering how hard and back breaking their work can be. Those at the high end are making somewhere between $12 to $13 an hour.
Anyway, i am a white collar worker in sales/purchasing, work along side a a couple of other sales guys, our accountant/CFO, and the executive VP, who happens to be the owner's son. Everyone makes good bank, especially the cfo and exec vp, who both well exceed 6 figures in base salary, plus rake in thousands more in bonuses....bonuses which exceed the yearly pay of the workers in the back.
Just about everyone of the factory guys has a second job. One is a night custodian. One works security. A couple of them pull night shifts at another local plant. I could go on. Most of their wives that I can think of off the top of my head have jobs of some sort.
The white collar guys are all republicans--the cfo is rabid, listens to rush in his office, flew our flag at half mast when they lost in 2006--and all of them remain ardent supporters of this president. The guys in the back are fairly apolitical, but they have a strong sense that the "man" is no friend of theirs and many support the president out of war concerns.
But this commentary is not so much about actual political beliefs. Here is what it is about.
My white collar colleagues constantly rail against the lack of work ethic in the country. You know who gets the brunt of their scorn? Remarkably, the guys in the back. The CFO actually said they were lucky because they did not have to pay taxes. Talk about a load of crap. Of course, they do pay taxes....their paychecks--small in comparision to us white collar dudes--are pillaged. They complain all the time about nobody in the back is willing to work, bitch a holy fit if they go a few minutes over their lunch and the salespeople bemoan how slow they work......at least once a day I hear a complaint about our lazy workforce....of course, none of them seem to have a problem spending time surfing the net reading about their favorite teams (one a cincy fan, the other GB, they read team blogs throughout the day, as do I.....such a hypocrite, I know :shrug: ) or spending most of the morning drinking coffee and talking with one another...or taking half days to golf...meanwhile, the back of plant, the guys just keep plugging away going from order to order.
I say trade places for a day jack asses......well i dont really say that, as i am not one for too much office arguing.......i take a run most days after work and get some of that stench out of me......anyway, back to the story......
As i see it, our tax system helps these white collar people....i have no problem with that.....but it is at the expense of the workers in the back.....thats where i have a problem.....the system enables the people with the most money with lots of avenues to save and invest...again, not a problem....it does not offer too many ooportunities, you could argue it offers none to the guys in the back...again, thats my problem with the systme......we white collars can take our bonuses, in some cases tax free and invest them in some cases tax free.....the $200 end of year bonuses we gave the guys in the back this year, our CFO put on their pay checks, where they were summarily taxed.....we can alter our pay to minimize taxes; they can not, they are stuck with that pay check where Uncle Sam clearly see what they make and take a big bite out of it.
I guess I just get a kick out of people who sit on their buts listening to talk radio and surfiing the net can bitch about a lazy workforce that in many cases takes a second job just to make ends meet. And then claim those folks are lucky because they dont get taxed. Folks, the income tax is not the only one out there....everybody who works and consumes pays taxes, and when you consider all the federal and state taxes, we already have a de facto flat tax where everybody in some form or another gets the same percentage of their income devoted to the concept of tax.
Our tax system, our government, our economy rewards wealth, not work......and i see that play out everyday at the place I work.
So sorry for the rant and the disorganized thoughts above....still figuring out how to be an effective poster here, and do so without creating a flame war.....we have too many of those in our society today and I think it hurts us as we try to come up with true policies that helps the sommon good.
One last thing.....here in Toledo, everybody is abuzz about tomorrow's big UM-OSU game.....we are city divided and close to the action......some of the guys in the back had a party planned.......of course, they were told they have to put in a day work tomorrow....news came down yesterday.....CFO said if we dont, we lose a big customer, everybody out of a job, and if they quit, fine, we'll just go out and hire mexicans to replace you.....so, they all are working, some, though worked last night and again tonight, in hopes that they can come in tomorrow get the job done in a few hours in the morning and watch the game.
The CFO....he left today at noon for Florida....we'll see him after thanksgiving.....the exec vp/owner boy, he'll be at the game.....but, i cant point too many fingers here as I have season tix up there and we'll be there too.......but what a crappy way for that to go down......I guess that means they will have earned the $200 end of year bonus, though :shrug:
Oops, for the rant again. Now, back to your regularily scheduled college football weekend, where all buckeyes must die :SIB
Well then you are burying your own argument even further. That means 33% are making even less than the 20k I threw out.
You say 33% are supported by the remaining 67%. If we subtract 5% as unemployment, that means 28% are working but still paying no taxes. That means 28% of the country have jobs, but they pay so little that they don't make enough to owe taxes on it.
This is not a result of the IRS lowering the requirement of owing taxes. It is a result of an increasing % of low paying jobs compared to the overall workforce. The fact that you cannot see this is astounding.
DTB - what do you think of AR working jobs when he was in college and not owing taxes on them? Pretty bad, huh?
Hey man! I would say just read the book......there is a chapter entitled "Taxes, there not for everyone." It should give you some answers, but maybe not the short sightred ideological ones you might be looking for.
It is a very enlightening read, but you must check whatever politcal biases you have at the door---and I am not saying that to you specifcally (same goes for that above short sighted comment also), but to anyone who ends up reading it.
As for your political biases.......the writer is a registered republican......and there will be plenty of ammo in there for you to use against the die hard D's and there are a lot of WTF are you thinking D congress in the 1980s and Prez Clinton material for you to use in your posts......but there are just as many crooked Reagan, W, Contract w/ America Congress anecdotes in there as well.....will those make your posts, we shall see.
It is a good read. You'll learn a lot. I know I did. It ought to make you think twice about the line of BS you get from Fox, right wing radio shows and club for growth types about tax policy......and like I said, it will also give you fresh ammo for some of your posts.
Peace, man.....and are there any dogs barking this weekend on the gridiron that I sould be aware of?!?!?
tp...
1st let me say that i enjoy reading your posts....don't agree with some of your comments but enjoy reading them anyway....
i'm not dtb but at first glance here are some dogs that i think are worth a look in college....temple,n.carolina,sd st,utah st,wash,miami fla.,...in the pros...jets,balt.,n.o., & tenn...but as i said i didn't really do much research on them...
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AR......thanks for the compliments. Enjoy reading your posts as well.......and, I am actually glad you dont agree with all my comments......i dont deal in absolutes, and that goes for my own opinions and commentary......does that make me a dreaded flip-flopper? Maybe.......but life is a fluid situation.....worked for eight years as a reporter in some pretty darn formative years, and one thing I learned from collecting stories from all walks of life is that there are many layers to everything and anchoring yourself with absolutes is not the way to go......you can still have a strong opinion, but if you dont open yourself up to other thoughts, ideas and philosophies you're missing the boat......i LOVE talking to people who have different perspectives and experiences than myself......nevertheless, I feel I may have fallen into the abosolut trap in my previous post.
1.) I made a sweepiing generalization based on a few people I deal with on an everyday basis.
2.) While I do believe we reward wealth more than work in this country, there is also a compelling argument to be made that we reward non-work, non-wealth over work as well.......we clearly need to find a middle ground on this or a lot of us are going to get squeezed even more.
3.) All Buckeyes should be destroyed? Please. Probably a little harsh. Let them live in internment camps. Round up the Boilermakers too. :SIB
And, good dog suggestions......love Tenn on Monday night.....all VY does is win, and after three straight games as a favorite, the Titans are back in the very profitable role as an underdog where they are 14-2 ATS since VY became the starter!!!
I am somewhat surprised to see replies from some of the conservatives here. As for Mr B he's not stupid. Many that think it's neat that the Bush tax cuts does what it does for those very rich. Might be missing a full deck.
What part of these tax cuts pertain to the rich--
Tax relief is an achievement for families struggling to enter the middle class. For hard working lower income families, we have cut the bottom rate of federal income tax from 15 percent to 10 percent. We doubled the per-child tax credit to $1,000, and made it refundable. Tax relief is compassionate and it is now on the way.
Tax relief is an achievement for families struggling to enter the middle class. For hard working lower income families, we have cut the bottom rate of federal income tax from 15 percent to 10 percent. We doubled the per-child tax credit to $1,000, and made it refundable. Tax relief is compassionate and it is now on the way.
I can't go into detail about my 5 years in sales and operations at a 25 employee "factory". the main complaint I received from the guys out back(none of whom had more than HS education, and most less than that) was that they get hit hard tax-wise on their overtime pay. Not sure if thats the case, since I was on salary/bonus.
Also, they complained that they get hit hard for having a second job. If these guys, and most were good guys, are busting their but to send their kids to the same private schools as the upper middle class, then shouldn't we look to ease their burden rather than add to it by making them pay more.
Here's my idea:
Minimal income tax for families earning less than 25K, or 2 income familes earning less than 35K. No "penalties" for working more than 1 job, and no payment of income tax on overtime. Put the burden on those who earn $200K plus.
BTW, IMO a 2 income family of 4, like mine, in New Orleans, lives comfortably with a gross income of 150K. I obviously will not mention where our income is relative to this watermark. Less than this, and you are in trouble to pay for private schools(public is not acceptable for the most part), child care, family vacations, etc., while saving for retirement so you don't have to work til your AR's age:142smilie J/k Al
Also, they complained that they get hit hard for having a second job. If these guys, and most were good guys, are busting their but to send their kids to the same private schools as the upper middle class, then shouldn't we look to ease their burden rather than add to it by making them pay more.
Here's my idea:
Minimal income tax for families earning less than 25K, or 2 income familes earning less than 35K. No "penalties" for working more than 1 job, and no payment of income tax on overtime. Put the burden on those who earn $200K plus.
BTW, IMO a 2 income family of 4, like mine, in New Orleans, lives comfortably with a gross income of 150K. I obviously will not mention where our income is relative to this watermark. Less than this, and you are in trouble to pay for private schools(public is not acceptable for the most part), child care, family vacations, etc., while saving for retirement so you don't have to work til your AR's age:142smilie J/k Al
A brief list for you. I will add more later, as time is short this week.......
1. I am against socialized healthcare. It also amuses me that she has the gall to proclaim that she wants to be the healthcare president, given the debacle of "Hillaryhealth" reform in the 90's.
2. I feel that leaders should be even-keeled. She is very erratic and tends to react emotionally. I am emotionally charged, and am aware that I cannot possibly lead a municipality, much less a nation. Can you imagine how defensive she would be were she getting battered by the media/public like GW Bush:shrug:
3. She has voted against ANWR drilling repeatedly------> Of course, her recent ploy is to request GW release the strategic reserves to offset rising prices. It's laughable, and reminds me of plugging a leak in the Hoover dam with bubble gum.:mj07:
4. She is a politician to the core. She panders to whoever is listening. I find it absurd that she's allowed to play both sides and am glad that Edwards and Obama(to a lesser degree) are calling her out. Immigration, troop withdrawal, etc..
5. The death tax will revert to 2001 levels in 2011, which is insane.
6. It's time for a change. I wouldn't vote for Jeb Bush either.
I don't remember any Hillary plan put into law. By the way we have over 45 million of us on nat health care. It works well. It of course is S/S. The Gov takes 95 bucks a month out of our S/S. We then can buy a private fund to pay for what S/S does not. Mind cost 88 bucks. I can go any place I wish for care. So when folks tell you it wont work and you cant see the doc you wish it's total Bull. And what a nice deal. Less then 200 bucks. My company plan cost 461 bucks with a 2000 deductible. You tell me??
As for Hillary a politician. The only one running from both side that tells truth is R Paul. I bet no one cares and he will not get elected.
That death tax wont get to you so don't worry. An if you got those type of bucks good for you. I don't think you will miss the money.
As for Hillary a politician. The only one running from both side that tells truth is R Paul. I bet no one cares and he will not get elected.
That death tax wont get to you so don't worry. An if you got those type of bucks good for you. I don't think you will miss the money.
I will be dead, so I obviously will not miss anything. Wasn't this nation founded partially because of unfair taxation practices?
It is not fair to tax the middle class for $$ that has already been taxed at least once. I am not against this tax because I am aware of some of the benefits, I am simply against the extremely low exclusionary amount. Today, its 2 million(which i find to be on the low level of acceptability), and it rises until 2010. Then in 2011 it drops to 1 million before returning to the absurd 2001 level of $675K.
I say raise the exclusionary rate (to 4 or 5 milion), because the ones who are hurt here are the upper middle class, because as you say the actual rich will not feel it. Who gives a fawk if Paris Hilton gets 50million instead of 75 million? Its John Smith, who gets 400K instead of 600K who I feel is getting hit here. I bet you and I aren't as far off on this as you think. It appears we have a different definition of the term "rich".
A brief list for you. I will add more later, as time is short this week.......
1. I am against socialized healthcare. It also amuses me that she has the gall to proclaim that she wants to be the healthcare president, given the debacle of "Hillaryhealth" reform in the 90's.
2. I feel that leaders should be even-keeled. She is very erratic and tends to react emotionally. I am emotionally charged, and am aware that I cannot possibly lead a municipality, much less a nation. Can you imagine how defensive she would be were she getting battered by the media/public like GW Bush:shrug:
3. She has voted against ANWR drilling repeatedly------> Of course, her recent ploy is to request GW release the strategic reserves to offset rising prices. It's laughable, and reminds me of plugging a leak in the Hoover dam with bubble gum.:mj07:
4. She is a politician to the core. She panders to whoever is listening. I find it absurd that she's allowed to play both sides and am glad that Edwards and Obama(to a lesser degree) are calling her out. Immigration, troop withdrawal, etc..
5. The death tax will revert to 2001 levels in 2011, which is insane.
6. It's time for a change. I wouldn't vote for Jeb Bush either.
7. I do not want the supreme court to be overrun by wacko liberals. There will be appointments in the next 4 years, and next thing you know this country is going to be run by a group of crazed pro-environment socialists
You do realize that is happening BECAUSE of the GOP, right? The Dems approved an estate tax with permanently raised minimum levels to account for inflation but the Rebs voted it down. They wanted the old levels to return in 2011 so that it could be an issue again.
At least you acknowledge that Hillary is not trying to overtax you anymore. In fact, her income tax proposal is basically the same as yours.
You normally sound logical. "Pro-environment socialists" ???? Really? OK.
As for ANWR, you do realize that many many people on the right are against that drilling too, right? There are many sound reasons outside of just the environmental ones for not drilling there. These aren't just "environmental socialists" vs "good ol american business" issues.
I can't help but laugh when people on the right complain about Dems being "socialist". The most socialist thing that has occured in the country in recent history was the Republican congress making it illegal for Americans to wager online.
You guys just can't see it though. Afraid of some mysterious socialist democrat boogeyman, when it's actually happening right under your nose by YOUR party.
You guys just can't see it though. Afraid of some mysterious socialist democrat boogeyman, when it's actually happening right under your nose by YOUR party.
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
Murph, you really do kill me. I am looking forward to a beer with you sometime.
