We Just Need to Give More!

[ferdville]

With all the fire and brimestone currently in the air, maybe we should look at a few things that have already happened. Many people advocate war. Many people want peace at any price. Many don't care 'cause it won't directly affect them. And some segments keep saying that the United States simply needs to be a better friend; to give more. Let's look at how helping our "friends" has worked in some cases:

We helped the Taliban in their fight against the Russians
We helped Saddam in his fight versus Iraq
We helped Panama with the Panama Canal
We helped North Korea with money, food and nuclear reactors
We helped China by giving them supercomputer technology
.......................................................................
The Taliban bombed us
Saddam wants to kill us
The Chinese have control of the Panama Canal we built/paid for
North Korea didn't feed the starving and is making nukes
China used the computers to make their ICBM's more efficient
........................................................................
Maybe we should get out of the "help" business.

 

[RAYMOND]

we should worry about our own people plain and simple!
fuvk them all! charity begins at home we done our share for the world !what as the world done for us! saddam must go:firing:

 

[Blazer]

We need to protect ourselves. How about an alien task force? No, not crop-circle aliens but aliens like crop-picking aliens. My ancestors came to this country legally. If they were illegal they were returened. I believe this would be the best "homeland security".

 

[RAYMOND]

AGREE HOW BOUT CLOSE THE GATES UNTIL THINGS ARE DONE WITH, NOTHING IN AND NOTHING OUT

 

[djv]

Ok this may piss some folks off but a question. How come we alow so many others in our country. But for Europe we have quotas. such as for the Polls. Chexz, Russians. Do you folks have any idea how many Russians came to this country many years ago. Norskies, Turkes, Jews, Germans, Dutch. Our country was built by these same folks. Now we only let afew in. I say screw that lets have more of them hard working folks come here.
And lets start taking care of right here. Ferdville you are correst our history of helping or backing the wrong folks has not been a good track record. We just do the dam-mest things. Like Iraq in the 82 to 86 time spand we gave them so much miltary chit its unbelievable. We may spend so much dilling around over there we will hurt our chance for real good home security.

 

[Blazer]

tax loss

tax loss

Djv- I don't have a problem with LEGAL immigration. I think maybe it should be revised or even updated, but my arrguement is with illegal aliens.

I wish there was a study on who much the illegals are costing us (taxpayers) in emergency room visits, additional police patrols, loss of jobs and missed tax revenues. I'm sure this cost could be reduced by hireing more immigration officials and it could create more jobs.

I'm currently taking contributions for my 2004 campaign. E-mail me to contribute.

 

[ferdville]

I did hear, Fox News (take it if you like), that taxpayers spend upwards of 30 BILLION dollars per year on services for illegals. In California, illegals are a huge percentage of our prison inmates. It is indeed costing all of us an arm and a leg. Funny thing is that I knew a guy in the early 90's who lived in South Africa. He wanted to come to the United States but could not get approval as we only "allow" x number of South Africans to stay here permanently each year. After about $30,000 in legal fees, he had to get another one of my friends to write the government a long letter explaining why he needed this guy's wife to program the computers for his business (Security Company - protection not stocks/bonds). Along with lawyer's help, this got him in. I guess he could have just overstayed his Visa, but he wanted to open a business here and felt he needed to be legal.

 

[yyz]

Blazer,

Aint too many jobs being lost to Mexicans running across the boarder.

I don't see too many whites out in those fields. I agree with the rest of the stuff, though.

 

[Chanman]

yyz, no dis intended, but evidently you haven't read the Headlines regarding the Latino birth rate in Ca. (Try getting into an ER or hospital in this neck of the woods.) I pass Illegal Immigrants selling flowers, etc., on my way to work everyday. I have no problem w/Legal Immigration. My wife went thru the process. Just think we should make it fair for everyone. And I am from Iowa. Don't see many browns in them fields.

 

[Blazer]

Blazer,

Aint too many jobs being lost to Mexicans running across the boarder.

I don't see too many whites out in those fields. I agree with the rest of the stuff, though.

I don't live in a cold climate because I don't like cold weather. I was raised in a warm climate and I probuly live in it my entire life.
Mexico is pretty warm....just a theroy.


I don't know about "the frozen turndra" but in "the deep south" there are many jobs being lost to illegals. (DISCLAIMER-not all illegals are hispanic, just seems like the majority) Building contractors and yard service seem to be the worst. If these guys can pay less for good (if not better) labor then why would they pay taxes and a fair wage to an American. Thats how jobs are lost. If wages were fair, and cheap labor was not avaliable then you would see more "whites" out in the fields.

 

[djv]

It's time to send a message with a few of the Illegals sent home in body bags. Were getting ready to watch our own folks come home in body bags from Iraq. Were willing to pay that price for the country we wish to live in and have it as we want. Well then it's time to send some other clear messages. I know thats harsh but im sick of some of this chit.

 

[yyz]

All I am saying is, you don't have illegals working for $20,000 at some store. The "jobs" these people take, are jobs "we" don't want.

They are a pain in the ass for a hundred reasons. Stealing our jobs is not one of them, unless you are an illiterate defective who can't get a real job.


These people take what they can get.

 

[Chanman]

Thoroughly understood yyz. Just my 2 cents is that we already pay too much for Illegal Immigrants in jail, schools and so on. Most do not have a High School education or speak the language. It is not as simple as they only take jobs we won't-IMO. What about people looking for part-time work, High Schoolers and such? Just adding to the debate- and no p*ssing match intended. Be really awful if we had to mow our lawn or wait @ 7-11! I think we should enforce the Immigration Laws or open the borders. Remember I took part in the Legal process- my rice cooker. What we are and have been doing hasn't and isn't working- literally & figuratively.

 

[djv]

YYZ you are correct i was very Harsh. And many jobs these folks take no one else will. Either that or some places are taking advantage of them and work them real cheap. Na Good USA companys small or large whould never do that.

 

[ferdville]

Just for the sake of argument, what jobs exactly do they take that others won't do? Busboys? Last time I visited Minnesota I don't think I saw alot of Hispanic busboys. Gardners? Hell, most people out here pay their gardners very well. Selling oranges and flowers on the freeways doesn't really serve our economy anyway as none of the income is reported. Since there are several states in the union that have virtually no illegals, who does the jobs there?

 

[beertime]

All I am saying is, you don't have illegals working for $20,000 at some store. The "jobs" these people take, are jobs "we" don't want.

They are a pain in the ass for a hundred reasons. Stealing our jobs is not one of them, unless you are an illiterate defective who can't get a real job.


These people take what they can get.

its really amazing how some guy in wisconsin is an expert on anything and everything...sounds like a classic case of tom daschle syndrome but anyway..

i grew up im minnesota and moved out to colorado when i was 21 and had many of the same views on illegal aliens taking "crop or field jobs"; hell they wanna do that shit let em...

that was 10 years ago and ive seen what has happened here in colorado and if it keeps pace may even make it up to the frozen tundra someday.

whites are the minority now, we have the hightest auto insurance rate in the country due to false identity etc.these aliens have fake social sec.#s and another 10 id's to collect social services that i pay for.these aliens buy cars at some pot lot and run the temp tags until the state needs proof of insurance, then they dump the car and buy another one with a new id.they ruin the schools because the parents dont speak and or want to speak english and teachers etc are forced to hold back the whole class on legal technicalities.companies blindly turn their head to suspicious id's if they know when push came to shove their ass was covered and they can save a buck or two.i cant type but could go on and on how this situation with ilegal id's etc is ruining this part of the country and if unchecked will get worse.

i personally take offense to yer comment on "illiterate defectives that cant get a real job". ive been a self employed contractor / carpenter for 8 years and cannot compete with people that dont pay taxes and carry proper insurance because im paying for theirs to start with. you probably never heard of sanford homes but it was a very respected company for 35 years.the quality etc was what the name stood for and i contracted with them. well they got bought by beazer homes last year. track home builder buying out a high end builder to some it up.6th biggest builder in the country. their stock jumped to "record growth" due to "innovative" cost cutting strategies last quarter. 60 % above expected earnings.

im getting off topic but basically we were asked take a 10% cut as a good will gesture and 6 months later another 10% cut "voluntarilly" if we wanted to stay.and by the way we need you to quadruple yer insurance coverage.

my insurance covers me.

jose padre covers jose padre and 150 people happy to work for bean money and live 10 deep in an apt.

i get one check and play all the legal corporate games.
jose padre gets one check and pays 150 guys in cash and pays no taxes.

gee jose padre is cheaper and faster...imagine that...

corporate greed is exploiting these loopholes and we all pay for it one way or another.im not racist but just expect the game to be played fair.the only way to compete is to cheat the system and hire illegals and feed the problem and im sorry i wont.somethin has to change starting with border patrol.they flood in at record numbers daily and apparently thats acceptable to americans.its only gonna get worse and ill leave it at that.


hell mexicans are cheaper than terriers these days...

 

[yyz]

Seeing things for what they are doesn't make me think I am an expert at anything.

Hey, if the people in Colorado want their houses built by a guy hiring illegals, that's on them. Again, though.......swinging a hammer aint rocket science. Construction jobs are a dime a dozen, and quality work might not be expected by some people.

Now, if I was building a house, the people would be reputable, and the work very good. You get what you pay for in anything in life.

I certainly don't think people should come to this country without an actual job lined up for them, and the ability to speak the language well enough to get by. That being said, there is no way to keep the boarders shored up, or keep sending these people back over, and over. It is a game that they are willing to play, and we aren't willing to fight.


Anyway........ I like how I go from being Eddie Haskell's picture of the All-American conservative, to your flaming liberal. Now if I can only be lumped in with the communists..............

 

[GlobalTrance]

Before this gets too off-topic . Ferdville , we "give" , "help" , those out there to insure our dominence . Its a strategic game where the world is viewed as a game of chess or risk . Never before has a , "the ", superpower arisen outside of the Eurasia . The Hegemony (US) wants to keep us dominent . Pay a pittance now , help to ensure your DOMINENCE later . There is a book out , explaining all this , if your interested . Say the word and its done . Jimmy

 

[TheShrimp]

To ferdville...

1. We helped the Taliban fight the RUSSIANS, ultimately helping their embarassing departure from afghanistan, and helping to usher their economy and military right into collapse.

2. I believe you meant "we helped saddam in his fight against Iran." (not Iraq) Sorry about that one ferdville. Sorry we helped the guy fight a muslim fundamentalist government who had just taken Americans hostage in our own embassy. You think the Ayatollahs are better than Saddam? Saddam hasn't done a thing against America compared to what the Iranis did.

3. The panama canal? First of all, it was returned to hong kong because we honored a contract we signed 100 years ago. And second, the panamanians would never have got it built. The detriment to US economy if the panama canal didn't exist would be outrageous. Perhaps you'd still like to ship things to Europe and Asia around the tip of Argentina? That would be great for America.

4. We fought a war with N. Korea. A WAR! I hardly doubt anyone thinks that we have "helped" the North Koreans. Not to mention economic sanctions against them.

5. The opening of the chinese markets (with a billion citizens) to american products has been immense. Our relations with China have helped open up 1/5th of the worlds population to american products. You find one example, and stretch it to ICBM technology (which the chinese have never even used against anyone) and think this is an argument to stop helping people???

Look at the big picture, not one small aspect of 5 foreign policy examples where you may be able to dream up a negative interpretation of the results of our policies.

I don't think the Jews in Germany, or the Serbs in the Balkans are too upset that we had this crazy policy of helping others.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"All I am saying is, you don't have illegals working for $20,000 at some store. The "jobs" these people take, are jobs "we" don't want."

I made comment in another thread about yhis lame ass congress women from CA who in a news interview one week ranted about how they do jobs no one else will do and came back very next week on same news station and ranted about our unemployment figures. Sheeez. How clueless can a person be.You damn right they'll be on unemployment and welfare when they can sit on their ass and collect more benefits.

Who are the winners and losers in this scenerio.
Tax payers foot the bills for the benefits.
Illegals collect wages,medical and other benefits but pay no taxes.
Welfare recipients collect benefits and pay no taxes.

The number of people paying taxes is diminishing and # of people to support that pay no taxes is increasing.

Heard the other night on the news but forgot the % (but it was unbelievable) of people residing in US who have NEVER in their lifetime even filed a tax return.