dawgball, when i started working for the company i am at now, one of the first things i did was optimize their site. It has ranked #1 in yahoo about a year now, for the keyword demographic we were aiming for. For us it was not cost effective to go the pay per click method when i was getting same/better results just researching what/how the user views are site, then optimize it to suit there needs. If you want, get my email from jack, and I can send you the sites that I would recommend.