Welfare-To-Nothing

Chadman

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Welfare-To-Nothing
Heather Boushey
July 10, 2006

Heather Boushey is a senior economist for the*Center for Economic and Policy Research.

Last week, while most of us were preoccupied by what to bring to the Fourth of July barbeque, the Bush administration quietly made a number of rule changes that will make life harder for the poorest among us. The administration claims that the new rules will promote ?self-sufficiency,? but it is probably closer to the truth to say that they will make harder for poor, single mothers to balance work and family needs.

The new*welfare rules *set down by the Department of Health and Human Services last week establish uniform definitions of what constitutes work or work preparation activities for welfare recipients, limiting states? ability to make these determinations. For example, the new rules require that a welfare recipient who is in school cannot count their study time towards their work requirement unless it is done in a supervised study hall. States have no leeway in interpreting this rule if, for example, the student has small children and needs to study at home at night after the children go to bed.

The administration claims that limiting state flexibility in implementing work requirements will help families become more self-sufficient, but, in reality, their actions work in the opposite direction. To be independent, families need to be able to be able to work and provide care. Denying families access to help when they need it most does not make them self-sufficient, it means they go without.

The new rules follow other changes to federal welfare policy that increased the share of welfare recipients required to participate in work. The Deficit Reduction Act signed into law in February requires that 50 percent of adults on welfare are in work activities, which is higher than in earlier legislation.

The administration's move to limit state flexibility implies that the states have been lax in moving families off welfare. Yet, the truth is that caseloads have fallen dramatically. In 1994, welfare caseloads hit a height of 14.2 million equal to 5.5 percent of the U.S. population. Since then, caseloads have fallen to less than 2 percent of the U.S. population, where where they had been in the late 1960s, before the welfare rights movement.

Many mothers who left welfare found employment and the employment rate of single mothers is now at an historic high. Most who found jobs have a higher income than they had (or would have had) on welfare, but now, the families left on welfare are often the hardest to serve. More often than not, these families need extra help with, for example, getting a high school degree or learning English or coping with a disabled parent or child. The new rules gloss over these barriers to work and mandate a ?one size fits all? set of work activities.

It is striking that the Bush administration claims to care about the integrity of the family but cannot see the harsh realities facing families?especially millions of poor families?as they try to balance an inflexible work environment with their families? need for care. This administration has sought to increase work requirements and touts vapid notions of self-sufficiency, rather than promoting changes that would make balancing work and family easier on poor mothers.

One of the most glaring examples of this has been the administration?s reluctance to pair higher work requirements with significant increases in funding for childcare. Without access to safe and enriching childcare, where are the children of poor working mothers? Welfare policy should help and encourage mothers to be good at both their paid and unpaid jobs.

To date, workers in the United States have no statutory right to paid or unpaid time off when they or their children are sick. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that just about half of service sector workers report having paid sick days. Without the right to paid sick leave, what happens when a working mother?s child gets the flu? Employment policy should help workers be good parents, not stand in their way.

In an Orwellian fashion, the administration refers to the increased work requirements as increasing self-sufficiency and reducing dependency. But a parent who must show up in study hall rather than do her homework with her children around the kitchen table is not less self-sufficient, not more. A parent who cannot take a day off to care for a sick child is not meeting her family?s needs. It?s time this administration stopped talking about self-sufficiency and sits down to look at the actual, rather than imagined, lives of working families and developed policies that?sufficiently?foster a workable balance between work and family.
 

AR182

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i'll admit i didn't read all of this article. don't feel that i have to because i basically know what it says.

first let me say that i think people are entitled to welfare checks if they are disabled or a senior.

on the other hand, i don't believe people should get money & not give something back in return. the return is that they should do work for the government's where they are receiving their welfare checks......ie...help keep the streets clean, help out in the public libraries or municpal hospitals.

i also believe that people shouldn't get welfare while they are in college. when i went to college i worked in the evenings & on weekends.if i can do it then others can as well. if people choose not to work then their welfare checks should be considered like a loan. they pay it back when they get a job.

women should not get money based on the amount of children they have. to me that's an incentive to get laid. these women should take precautions if they can't afford in having children.


i have a question for you, chadman & any other person who believes in the welfare system...

do you contribute money to the various organizations that help the poor ?

because if a person believes in the welfare system that means that they should contribute to help the poor. and i'm not talking a few dollars. i think that people who believe in welfare should contribute $1000 per year towards the poor.

so how about it welfare supporters..do you donate money for the poor ?
 
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blgstocks

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Good point IE about donating to the poor

This brings about a few questions to me....

First, Chadman where is it that you get all of this liberal rhetoric themed articles? I doubt that it is from an unbiased newsource, or if it is you are obviously picking and choosing. I know that you have told me you are extremely pissed with this administration, but searching the left wing archives for more reasons to hate Bush is only going to make you angry.

Second, If the economy is so bad and being flushed down the toilet like other articles posted JUST THIS WEEK by chadman, why is the unemployment rate so low? Most unbiased people would look at that paragraph and at least say wow good job to this administration for keeping and continueing to lower unemployment and help those that need work find it. This is obviously a very baised source for not only not acknowledging Bush but putting him down for it!

Thirdly, the only thing that i read that Bush "sneakliy" changed about the welfare system is that mothers on welfare are no longer allowed to count study time as "work". GOOD. Study time, especially for basic college courses is not work, itis a peice of cake that you can do while you are watching your kid. I can understand if you are learning a second language, or are just learning math, maybe that is work. I geuss maybe if that is the case the govt could allow work hours if you were seeing a tutor or studying hard in a library or something.... oh wait they do that already.
Another thing that was changed was that the more times you get pregnant the more welfare you can claim. GOOD. Take away the incentive to keep being lazy and bring more kids into this world that have to be raised by your lazyass. There are exceptions and I think we all should have an open mind and heart to those exceptions or very unfortunate to help them out, but I would say if after one child you still are not taking FREE birth control or using FREE preventitive measures, you are too stupid or immature to be raising kids, why should the govt. give you incentive to do so?

Fourthly, I would go one more on IEs list of people to get welfare in that I think people who are truly down on their luck or made a mistake (an unexpected kid when you are very young and dont have anyone to turn to) they should be taken care of until they are given a second chance and blow it, or they are showing that they are trying and giving back to the system they are sucking off of. By not allowing these loose rules and forcing those to start working earlier or more often is promoting that idea of giving back to the system.

This article does nothing but show that your sources are very biased and will whine about anything for the sake of whining, and that the Bush administration has been doing a very good job with the unemployment rate and imo the welfare system.
 
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Chadman

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AR...I can agree with some of your ideas for welfare reform. I think they have merit and should be pursued by legislators, or suggested to legislators. I certainly see nothing wrong - and a lot of good - in having people receiving government assistance paying back government with time and effort. That would be a great idea. Welfare reform and limits have been enacted in previous administrations, and evidently those reforms have lessened the numbers relying on government services by half (or so). Evidently we have been making progress in this area, and tweaking that system to benefit all of us would be a good move forward. But to continually dismiss all welfare (as some do here) with blanket commentary does nothing to help, or address the issue in a positive way. Dogs and Blgstocks had some good ideas about education the other day, and pursuing and allowing for other ideas is moving the conversation forward.

AR, I often see conservatives here (libs, too, to be fair) say that they didn't read the whole article, and then summarize it saying they know what the content is. Very Bush-like, I have to say. What I don't get is...why do people NOT read a story and then criticize the content or source for what it contains? Why not dismiss it and not comment on it, if you don't care to read what it is that you are commenting on? Do yourself a favor, pretty much.

You allow for disabled and a senior receiving welfare. Others here would allow for none. I would say that offering people assistance with limits makes our country a better place, and that there are areas that need work - like working mothers who are trying to do exactly what Freeze and others harp on eternally - better themselves, get a good job, improve the quality of life for themselves and their children, get off the welfare roles, pay more in taxes, helping others improve their lives. Mothers who have to pay daycare which is a huge part of their income, especially when they have to work low paying jobs to start with. Many of these mothers believed the fathers when they said they would be around, would help them, etc. And they split, and they don't help or pay, and there are fewer child support enforcement services to track them down and force them to follow through (a direct budget decision by the current republican legislature). What do these people do? There are no answers other than - hmm, be more like Freeze - around here. There are no blanket solutions, and the hand-up-not-a-hand-out theme is easy to say, not so easy to follow through with at the end of the week. And, apparently this legislation is designed to not leave these decisions up to states, but to make another government program/oversight. Interesting when some things should be left up to the government, and not to states, depending on the political situation.

To address the charitable giving situation for me personally...one thing I personally believe in is that part of my tax payment should go for the programs that I think help people. So, in that sense, I am happy that my money goes in that direction, along with money others. I think my tax burden is fine, and I realize that I can't control where the money goes at all times, but I can be political and try to affect change. Especially voting. So, I am fine that some of my money goes that direction. Others are not, and that is fine for them. But, specifically, I do make contributions of cash, time, and effort for local food shelves. I contribute to children's causes locally with time and cash, especially around the holidays. I confess, it hits me more around that time and I am less charitable at other times of the year. But that is probably more the norm than not, I suppose. I donate to the American Cancer Society every year. I donated to the Katrina relief efforts, and the Tsunami relief efforts. I donate time to community boards that help people and raise funds. I coach, which gives back to the community in ways that can not be measured, I figure. I donate to things that I think help people who need it, to address your question, above and beyond my tax burden. Not saying this other than to answer your rather pointed question. And I'm sure that many conservatives do the same kind of thing - and much more. Charity is not a political thing, really, I don't think. It's a personal thing. I am not a good guy because I choose to do these things...they make me feel good and I get more from doing them than what I give in most cases. To each their own.

blgstocks, much of the stuff that I post here for discussion does come from liberally-slanted sites, yes. So what? Is this forum designed to be a middle-of-the-road political snoozer? Or does the title "Politics and Religion" kind of beg for some conflict and intense issues? Isn't it natural for liberals to post liberally-leaning stuff and believe in it? Don't you read the conservatively-leaning stuff that gets posted in here? That is ok, I guess? I never said I am balanced in my beliefs. I lean left, and post lefty-based stuff most of the time because it interests me more, and it causes a good give and take discussion most of the time. I enjoy politics and discussing them. How many down the middle sites are there out there these days? If that is the only thing appropriate for posting here, then this forum will quickly die, IMO. And yes, often times I post controversial subjects or a one-sided look at an issue because I know it will get some give and take going. I don't always believe everything that is put forth in everything I post from other sources, if that's what you think.

I don't know what you are saying (that is on point, anyway) with your 2nd paragraph which reads:

Second, If the economy is so bad and being flushed down the toilet like other articles posted JUST THIS WEEK by chadman, why is the unemployment rate so low? Most unbiased people would look at that paragraph and at least say wow good job to this administration for keeping and continueing to lower unemployment and help those that need work find it. This is obviously a very baised source for not only not acknowledging Bush but putting him down for it!

What articles are you talking about? My post about Cheney and where his investments are? It pretty much asks a question and makes an assessment of where he thinks things are going, doesn't it? What other articles are you talking about? You refer to a paragraph about unemployment in the article here...the only reference to unemployment says that the mothers that were on the welfare roles and were unemployed came off of them and that that was a good thing. The author has to give credit to Bush before an article can be looked at as worth reading? Does this work both ways for you? Or just for Liberal posts? How many threads in this forum contain Clinton bashes when we are talking about Bush and his performance? I don't see where the author is criticizing Bush for anything related to unemplyment here...maybe you do.

You guys are talking about pregnant mothers having more kids and making more money from that. I agree with you. But what does that have to do with this story? Nothing. There was no comment about that. You criticize the story as being biased and then throw in something that had no part in the story? And the AUTHOR is biased?

I'm not whining, but thanks for labeling a different idea with a derogatory brand - I guess to try to add some credence to your points. Anyone who supports Bush and his policies are to be looked at as being correct and patriotic, and anyone else is just a whiner. That isn't necessarily the case, and to say that really just shows a lack of substance in dealing with an issue. It's dismissive, and follows RIGHT in line with the current administration and the conservative party line these days.

Your boys would be proud of you.
 

AR182

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chadman....

very good post.

and of course you are correct about reading the whole post before replying to it. i tend to think i'm getting add in my old age. it seems that i don't have patience for reading long articles or posts....it probably has to do with me agreeing with the topic or not (lol).

as i said i'm not totally against welfare..but only if you are incapable of working.as somebody who doesn't mind paying his fair share of taxes, i resent a woman getting pregnant because she believed the father would be around to help with the costs of taking care of the kid; only to later find out that the father was b.s. her because he wanted to get into her pants.now she is stuck with the kid & because she can't afford it, we the taxpayers have to pay for this kid. that's not fair & it's not right.

and as far as child care costs go then the mother should get 2 jobs to support her family.as my father used to say.."you made your bed now lay in it". there are countless stories of single women not using the crutch of welfare to support her family.

i agree for the most part that charity is a personal thing. however it can also be a political thing as well. if somebdody thinks that other people's money (taxes) should go to the poor, but doesn't make any donations out of their pocket (no matter the amount), then i think it's political.


and for the record i give money to a few charities, but not to the poor. instead we give clothes to the poor. lately most of my money donations go to our military people.
 

DIRTY Diapers

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NO WORK NO MONEY... I grew up on my own and made it all way to college by working hard and having a job. I'm tired of people receiving free checks from the government. S H I T there was even a song "called 1st of the month, grab your checks and cmon"

Go grab a job you lazy bastards...
 

dawgball

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chadman -- you state that you post from left--leaning publications to start a give and take, but your post seems to imply that you don't want someone to post against your article. Where's the give and take in that.

Nothing that was posted in response to the article was any different than your statement of

Welfare reform and limits have been enacted in previous administrations, and evidently those reforms have lessened the numbers relying on government services by half (or so).

So it's really only policies that have been put in place by previous administrations that have dropped over the last 12 years?

I really don't care either way about this thread. I think welfare reform (note this does not say welfare elimination) is much needed and this article is definitely just Bush-bashing and trying to fuel the people who already despise him. But it seems that you want it both ways here. You can post leftist ideas, but some of the righties on here can't come back on them.
 

blgstocks

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In response chadman, I am sorry to rant about women having more kids getting more welfare, i could have sworn it was in the article but after reading it I found that there was nothing there.

I do not know where you get that I said one has to compliment Bush to be legit in any article. I said that unemployment rates are low and have stayed low throughout the administration. I think that is worth noting in a Bush bashing article. Here is a link http://www.forecasts.org/data/data/UNRATE.htm to confirm that.
Anyways when making a point or trying to persuade someone it makes a much stronger case when you do something besides bashing the other side like "to bushes credit the unemployment rate has remained low....", and before you respond back with "excuse me for nto obeying the laws of the debate police" or something like that, i will stop you, because that was just the point i was trying to make about giving Bush credit.
And i do appreciate you posting articles, obviously I respond to them and I enjoy reading them, even if they are very far slanted articles. I am just saying that it is tough to take anything seriously when it is so far left it is blind to anything that is remotely right. That is fine for this forum, and like i said i enjoy reading i was just stating my opinion on it.
To respond to your reference to your thread on cheaney, read your thread again and see what the other posters are saying about the economy going down the toilet, and read what the author of your post implied as to what the spending of cheney meant.

And i never called you a whiner, I said that your author was whining about welfare and did not convince me at all as to why Bush's "sneaking around while we are at our bbqs" is hurting welfare, in fact seeing through the liberal rhetoric I have concluded that he is doing a good job with it.
I do not know where I say that anyone who like Bush is a patriot?!? Maybe you assumed that is what i was implying, but that is not the case. It seems like anytime someone has a response to liberal questions as to why Bush does the thing he does, the only response is 1. Well Bush is stupid or 2. So if you dont love Bush than you arent a patriot? I think I have read both in every single post with 10+ replys here.
I read plenty of Bush bashing articles and posts by users here and there are only a few on here that share a smilar view as mine so i throw it out there. I do not like baseball, and nobody has been posting much in general so I have found my way here for an hour or so a night.
 

Chadman

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dawgball said:
chadman -- you state that you post from left--leaning publications to start a give and take, but your post seems to imply that you don't want someone to post against your article. Where's the give and take in that.

Nothing that was posted in response to the article was any different than your statement of



So it's really only policies that have been put in place by previous administrations that have dropped over the last 12 years?

I really don't care either way about this thread. I think welfare reform (note this does not say welfare elimination) is much needed and this article is definitely just Bush-bashing and trying to fuel the people who already despise him. But it seems that you want it both ways here. You can post leftist ideas, but some of the righties on here can't come back on them.

I'm not sure where I say that or act like people have no right to come back at my postings. In this thread alone I commended AR for his welfare reform ideas, and have commended Wayne, AR and Blg for their thoughts on education in another. To be fair, I think I have been a little over the top in my comments to conservative thoughts and posters here of late. I've misinterpreted a couple of things lately, but there have been some long, thorough posts and some pretty strong points made towards me personally, too. When I see those things and couple them with my growing concerns and dislike of Bush administration events and policies I get a little strong in posting, I agree. Food for thought, and I will consider that moving forward.

It's probably fair for you to comment on my post about the previous administrations. I would submit that my thinking is that the welfare reforms enacted under Clinton - which was a focus for him, and alienated him from many supporters - is one of the biggest reasons for the reduction in numbers from the welfare lists. Makes sense to me, the main focus of that legislation was to limit the amount of time you could accept benefits, something like 5 years or something, and that would follow, wouldn't it? I don't know what else Bush has done to reduce numbers above and beyond that, maybe somebody can share. It's entirely possible.
 

Chadman

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blgstocks, I think your above response is pretty thorough, and on point. I did get a little off track in making some of my points, and maybe strayed to add a little spice to the points and post. I notice that you were referencing others in your post in some situations and I took it as a more personal thing towards what I was saying.

I need to slow down a little, but your boy and his band have me a little frothy right now... :rant2:

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your take on things and "keeping it real."
 

djv

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Clinton had a good plan and it worked. In Wis we have good plan and it's working. Now if we could count on Iraq war to continue so we keep unemployment down. But do we really want Iraq war to continue with all those deaths just to keep unemployment number look good. Sad thing some service men when they get out of the service qualify for welfare.
 

ferdville

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We have become a nation where personal accountabilty for one's actions simply doesn't apply to everyone because they are "victims".
 

djv

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2/3 's of college grads say they are over 20000 grand in debt the day they graduated. They also said they worked part time jobs of 20 hrs to 30 hrs to make it. Most say that leads to another 1/2 of a year to finish. Witch just adds to more cost. If our schools get to point we lose kids because of cost. Were in trouble as a country.
 

ferdville

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About 40% or less of kids who start college end up with a degree. But you are right, costs are atrocious.

An area that concerns me are vocational schools such as DeVry, ITT Tech, Bryman, etc. (at least in Calfornia). They have outrageous tuitions and they are more than happy to loan you the money to go. They appeal primarily to lower income kids, many of whom can't even handle the curriculum.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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and last but not least--you can always serve your country a few years--get paid-free room and board and get education paid for-- of course you might have to learn a little dicipline-self reliance and be accountable but believe it or not, while going against the grain of many nowdays--those in themselves are worthy attributes ;)
 

djv

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DTB That remains a good idea. I'm glad way back when for me it's was there. It does not fit all because they just are not cut out for it. But with volunteer option it's better then it was. But of course they still need cost be kept in line or folks will complain the government is paying for a select few.
 
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