What Tax Break.

[djv]

Remember lastyear that Tax Break. What we get, three, four hundred bucks? It was going to get the economy smoking. Sure did we went from 5.4% unemployment to 6%.
Now we have the great Dividend Tax Break. Yup all us stock holders are going to get RICH. WRONG. Problem is only 3% of the puplic hold stock. WHAT. Thats Right. Just because your in mutual funds with you 401 or 403 plans what ever. You GET NOTHING.
That is right when you start when old enough to with draw your money for reiterment you get taxed same old way. That would be any money you take out is taxed as Ordinary income.
Now back to the 3% that have stock of there own not in mutal funds. You get some relief. Thats it. Not starting a classe battle here. But of that 3%. The top 2% are those Guys with All the Money right Now. There about to get a Chit Load More. But dont worry there all going to go out and start business and hire a bunch of people and save the economy. Boy is that some BS. Most of them spend what they have now. Or have all they need and dont need to spend anymore. And they wont spend more. Some you Younger dudes here need to study this plan hard and tell your Sentors and Congressman there ant chit here and we need something better then this. I can tell you for older folks as myself there ant dame thing there. And I do pay a pile of taxes each year.
Seems the only good part in this plan is the extra 400 bucks for the children credit. This can help some you young folks that have kids. But are we back to the 400 bucks like last year that did nothing to help our economy or stop the high unemployment.
It does look like the rich are going to do very good. The rest of us in the 97% group get what we deserve not much.

 

[djv]

What the heck nobody going to come in here bust by balls and stick up for this great plan.

 

[Iowa Child]

3% of the people in this country pay 95% of the income taxes. You don't think that's enough DJV? Corporations are currently taxed on their dividends, and individuals are also taxed if it's not held in a 401k or IRA, I don't think that's fair, do you? Did you ever get a job from a poor guy?

 

[Iowa Child]

Let's not forget that the liberals in Congress are the ones who slowed down Bush's proposed much larger tax cut nearly two years ago.

 

[ferdville]

Iowa Child makes a great point. I think his figure is slightly high, but you get the idea. People earning over $100.000 per year certainly pay more than 90% of all taxes. It follows therefore that if you are going to give taxpayers a break, they will be first in line. What sort of a tax break can you give a welfare family that doesn't pay taxes? Wish we had a flat tax or sales tax only, but doubt we will ever see it. Big Gov would have to dismantle most of the IRS and when was the last time you heard of the government cutting back? I'm no big fan of "W", but what would you do to get the economy going djv?

 

[Evil Genius]

I love how the Dems keep complaining that none of the tax cuts are for the people in the lower income brackets. How can you give someone a tax cut who doesn't pay ANY taxes to begin with. 100% of any income taxes they pay are refunded to them. Throw in earned income credits, child credits, etc, and more like 110% of what they pay is refunded to them.


The reason tax cuts for the wealthiest helps the economy, is that the less they pay in taxes the more they have to invest. The more they invest the faster the economy grows. When the economy grows more jobs are created. More jobs means more people earning money which means......more tax revenue.

So lowering tax rates, in the long run, leads to higher tax revenues. Also, when rates are low there is less incentive for people to "hide" their income in tax shelters which also increases revenues for the government.


The lower the tax rates are, the higher tax revenues will be. Remember the 80's. Under Reagan, taxes were the lowest ever while tax revenues were at the highest percentages ever, all while the country saw its greatest explosion of wealth ever.

 

[djv]

The last tax break did nothing by giving a ton to the wealthy. 5.4% to 6% unemployment. But you want to blame the dem's again. Hey Congrees has been controlled by the R's for last 4 years. My point is you can give the wealthy all you want I have no problem with that. But there allready spendng all they want or need to. So they put it in a bank and it does nothing. Give them all you want. Just give the folks that PAY TAXES in the lower life styles of $100000 and down more then now offered. They will spend it they need to. This is a Mute Point now because the Pres and some his advisers said yesterday they do beieve they will re-look at this package. Why? Becasue it may not get all done as they wanted. Hello! All they need to do is give every tax payer 1000 bucks. Then watch what happens. All those folks in the 97% range that PAY taxes will spend it. Then offer a plan to the companies in this Great Nation Tax breaks for the jobs they create for here. Not Mexico and Brazil and China. For here. We have the 6% unemployment. At least make them earn that tax break. Let the rich get as rich as they want. But lets help others as they get richer.

 

[wondo]

I beg to differ with a couple guys replies here.

I don't know the first thing about economics but I will personally vouch that I would like to see a tax break hit my (low) income bracket. I make jack squat each year but still pay a shitpot full of taxes which impacts me much more directly on a day to day basis than someone who might make $500k+ but pays a higher percentage. That money that they lose, although not fair, doesn't cut into some necessary or expected expenses.

I don't know what the answer is, but I will guarantee that there are a number of educated, young and upcoming people that are hit with taxes that affect their lifestyle. The 'poor' or low middle class aren't just those people on welfare. Depending where you live, you might laugh at the number of young people and couples who live around here and pay a ridiculous amount of rent and living expenses month to month. Their income isn't necessarily higher, either, so the percentage that goes to rent and food and tax is substantially higher than a similar person living elsewhere. Any money that I can get back in taxes makes a huge difference.... and as someone replied, that money isn't going to be buried for a rainy day -- I've got to spend the crap on something else!

There was an interesting article in the Washington Post about a week ago. Admittedly, it is a liberal newspaper. However, it gave a break down that was interesting. I have to find it in print or online but basically it refuted the arguement that the top 10% paid for and equal amount of taxes. I will try to look for it and post the graph. I realize stats can be interpreted in many ways, but this was yet another way of presenting a devils advocate opinion ot the tax plan.

 

[Blazer]

Tax Soluition

Tax Soluition

Burn the Tax code. It is too complex and it takes too much money to regulate it. <P>
A flat rate on <U>all income</U> is the only way. Let's make up a #. 10% to make the math easy. That way the poor who make only 20K a year will only pay 2K a year and the rich 100K will pay 10k a year. The rich are paying 5 times more than the poor. That's fair and just. That's America.

 

[Goiing Gone]

The 80s under Reagan: THAT was A BOOMING 8 yrs where the hell were you EG:shrug:

The truth is it was 8yrs of RECESSION

 

[dr. freeze]

good grief.....the rich are already paying way too much...they get taxed over 50% of their income!!! That is absolutely absurd!!!

A FAIR tax taxes everyone at the SAME rate........any other tax is unfair......period........

actually, it can be argued, that a FAIR tax everyone pays the same amount!!! Why should anyone have to do more than his/her fair share of the burden? Why should someone who works to achieve have to pay so much more than someone who sits on their ass or who doesn't achieve as much?????

SO YES the WEALTHY should get MOST if not ALL of the tax break....plus they are the ones who will create jobs and give raises....they are the entrepruneurs who will stimulate the economy......

A FAIR tax is one where every pays the same amount.......DJV -- how can you dispute that?????

When you are going to the super bowl party shoudl the rich have to pay more for their ticket? That would be unfair don't you think?

 

[ctownguy]

Freeze is exactly right.

Under the liberal way of thinking all the great cappers her at MJ's should pay double for their SB party tkts and all of us lousy poor cappers who lost our ass should go free.:shrug:

Ferdville, Iowa Child and EG all make sense, but in this day and age we will never see a fair and equal tax code of any kind, because we are dealing with the liberals and they would never let it happen, they would be out of business if they couldn't extort, steal, or just confiscate our hard earned dollars for their own use

 

[Iowa Child]

Well said, Ctownguy and Dr. Freeze.

 

[wondo]

no personal offense, but that's a stupid ass comment.

unless someone is an idiot or 100% idealistic with no financial concerns, why would they not vote to get the benefit that served them the most?

also, dr freeze, just because someone don't make much doesn't mean that the person sits on their ass. i would like to see you last two weeks with me before you go crawling back to your job.

also, let's have someone step up and call a spade a spade. don't hide behind some tax code that benefits dividends and what not. say you want to cut taxes to the rich because it benefits the economy. dont say its a tax cut for everyone because its not. if you want a certain group (the upper class) to have more money -- have the gumption to come out and say that and tell us why.

 

[djv]

As I said above its a Mute Point. The Pres and his advisers already said plan needs more work. They have come to find out it wont do much at all for Job Growth. Like I said above you want the rich to have more go ahead give them more thats find. I dont care how much they make. Please do remember there are many folks paying more taxes making 60 grand a year then the 500 grand a year guy. And you all now why. They hire the best Tax Accounts they can. Many end up paying very little. What I said That is needed. Was you want growth for jobs. Then give the Companies that grow there work force incentives and tax breaks for doing it. But dont keep rewarding businees for cutting there job force and send jobs out of the country. Why give them something when they do nothing for growth here. What we need is some more real rich bastards like the ones that ran Enron. And if you think the last tax break worked so good. And yes the rich did just fine. Why are we at 6% up from 5.4% unemployment if it worked so good. It failed thats why Bush is ready for plan number 2 first one did nothing. Anyway a mute point plan 3 coming soon. Maybe they can get it right soon.

 

[dr. freeze]

see me last two weeks in your job???

oh brother....get a grip buddy.....i have done more sht jobs than you can imagine and my family made 15K a year when i was raised 20 years ago which was not a whole lot to say the least so because i think the rich pay too much doesn't assume i am rich.....

and i make NOTHING and the only job i HAVE had made 20 K a year SO obviously i think the tax cut for the rich would benefit everyone.....

those people who sit on their ass and do nothing should pay the same as the rich.....that is FAIR.....those who work their tails off should pay the same as the rich no matter what they earn.....if you want to earn more, the American Dream is there for you.....or at least it would be if success was rewarded like it is supposed to be.....

so if you are unhappy with your job, do what you can to improve yourself.....get a little "pioneer spirit" and invest your time and money into a new business, education, etc.....that is what will stimulate the economy.....redistributing the income so that there is far less productivity will take food off the shelves and you can go ask people in mother Russia to see how that works

 

[dr. freeze]

and Enron is a whole separate issue....those people were crooks and should be jailed for a long time.....not everyone is like that....

so please do not wage your class warfare card.....that is so old and go read Karl Marx if that is your idea of a great system.....

if you are envious of the rich, become rich yourself.....you CAN rise from the lower/middle class.....not saying that will bring you happiness -- cuz it won't -- but you can do it if you want

 

[dr. freeze]

one of my best friends here in Houston is a 2nd generation immigrant from South America.....his parents live in NY off next to nothing.....

he is 21 years old.....he dropped out of college and learned the trade of contracting on his own.....this is his 3rd year in the business....last year he netted 300K and this year plans to gross 3 Mill and net 1 Mill.....21 YEARS OLD!!!!.....fortunately for me he is able to get me free golf passes at some of the developments he works with

labelling people "the rich" the "upper class" etc. and antagonizing and being envious and mean spirited against them is such a pathetic attitude.....if you are envious -- go after the $$ yourself......it CAN be done.....probably not by your 30K job and winng 100 bets in a row.....you have to go do it some other way......you have to be INNOVATIVE.....

and anyone can do it.....and that is how the economy will get going again....BUT....taking away incentive to do so will KILL our country.....and that is what the tax and spend liberals want to do and HAVE done

 

[ryson]

no personal offense, but that's a stupid ass comment.

unless someone is an idiot or 100% idealistic with no financial concerns, why would they not vote to get the benefit that served them the most?

also, dr freeze, just because someone don't make much doesn't mean that the person sits on their ass. i would like to see you last two weeks with me before you go crawling back to your job.

also, let's have someone step up and call a spade a spade. don't hide behind some tax code that benefits dividends and what not. say you want to cut taxes to the rich because it benefits the economy. dont say its a tax cut for everyone because its not. if you want a certain group (the upper class) to have more money -- have the gumption to come out and say that and tell us why.

I may be reading into Freeze's post a little to much but I don't see where he equated a dollar figure with how hard you work. My family is in the construction trade and I know plenty of folks who work very hard and don't make much. In regards to a tax cut for everyone, didn't everyone who filed taxes get a check last year? I am not against taxes (to a point) due to we need them for infrastructure and the things we use everyday, what bothers me is that if you make 50K a year you are classified as rich, therefore paying most of the overall tax bill. Why shouldn't I get a break if I put money into the market? Isn't that what stimulates the economy? What is really killing us is the taxing of small biz, in today's world a corporation is joe blow that is running a biz out of his/her house and the taxes is putting these folks out of biz, flat tax is the only way to go.

 

[dr. freeze]

i didn't equate a $$ figure.....and never will or have.....

that is a common theme the wealth redistributors like to throw at anyone who argues against them....."work in my shoes"....."i work hard at my job -- why shouldn't i get more"....."not everyone who is poor sits on their ass"......

same ol' class warfare BS....working hard has nothing to do with how much you will make.....

i don't know about you, but when i was a kid and had no $$ i sat there and tried to figure out a job i would like to do and where i could make some good $$ doing....and made my decision from there.....i didn't feel "doomed" to working my ass off barely able to make ends meet.....i always thought if i DID work hard enough with a little direction, i could work my ass off and make some GOOD $$.....

which is what i am trying to do.....