"white flight"

[SixFive]

Helped a guy from California move to BG today. I heard the term "white flight" for the first time ever, and I was intrigued by it. He mentioned it in passing and did not expand on it, nor have I researched it on the net. I guess the gist is that the Mexicans move into an area en masse and all the white people leave?? Is that it?? How many areas has this affected, and how does it affect them??

 

[bear]

White flight........fear based.....is real and based on perception.
A neighborhood starts to change...jobs change..lower socio-economic groups begin to move in, groups a/o gangs of young people hang out and people become threatened,schools are perceived to be lacking discipline and less challenging, crime stats inch up, drugs are apparent....etc.etc.
In the face of these perceived problems, homeowners see their real estate equity and way of life threatened.........and so move out. I worked at a neighborhood school where the school population went from 50% minority population to 91% in a period
of 8 years..........To desegregate....It then became a very successful Magnet School with a lottery type waiting list....but
MANY of the fears people had were unfounded....some were real and came to pass!

bear

 

[dawgball]

A neighborhood starts to change...jobs change..lower socio-economic groups begin to move in, groups a/o gangs of young people hang out and people become threatened,schools are perceived to be lacking discipline and less challenging, crime stats inch up, drugs are apparent....etc.etc.

With all due respect, are these perceived or real effects?

 

[gardenweasel]

well,it happened in my old yale heights/irvington neighborhood in baltimore...

..actually,it was jack`s old neighborhood,too...was a strong,lower middle class neighborhood when i was growing up....it`s pretty horrible as i speak...

drug store gone...food store gone...gas station on the corner gone..replaced by street corner churches and lotto joints...

i moved from the inner city when it became really bad... and the same thing happened in that neighborhood...

the issue of property values declining is pretty much true in many instances,from what i`ve experienced...

some high end businesses relocate....and are replaced by low end outlets and such....(in baltimore,hecht`s and j.c. penny department stores have relocated to the suburbs and have been replaced by the value city`s and dollar stores of the world)....

we saw downtown baltimore deteriorate to the point of almost becoming a ghost town....which precipitated the building of the beautiful inner harbor....

hard to judge the crime stats in b`more city...it`s been a very dangerous place for decades..other than the inner harbor,of course....

i`m sorry it`s happened..it`s just that it`s been been my own experience....

 

[bear]

Some real and some perceived....
As citizenry is proud (not just white)..homes are oftentimes owner occupied, parents are involved, neighborhood is cared for in many ways and there is pride in property and participation in schools, local govt. etc....As lower socio-economic groups move in there seem to be more renters who are LESS likely (by virtue of job,educational preparation, etc.) to move on to become homeowners. As the more upwardly mobile improve their situation and move up they are replaced with those who are likely to stay longer and the old neighborhood changes.. The neighborhood I spoke of included single and multi-family homes, City housing and high rise tenements.......The change was rapid...and in most cases it was white families being replaced by minorities. Many of the fears that caused people to leave...were just that..fears... and many left just because they bought their first homes.. I never worked in a better situation...More kids were needy....but they and their families were great! EVERYONE wants the best for their kids ..Some just have trouble delivering...
Yes, It became tougher to sell property in the neighborhood even with the highest scoring school in the city and incidences of crime increased etc......over time

bear

 

[bear]

Gardenweasel,

One of my sons went to Loyola in Baltimore and we enjoyed the "Harbor"...Some really tough areas all around though..Lotta panhandling back then.. In any event ...We are there for a weekend at the Marriott on the harbor and we're coming home on a Sat night ...We saw a crowd of police and youth from the inner-city congregating on the corner a few blocks away from the 'Harbor"...The police had the road closed with barricades and it appeared that the young people were being prevented from going down to the "Harbor" Just milling around and congregating where, it seemed, they were allowed to congregate.. Noone was passing or walking down to the Inner Harbor and we took the next street to get down.. I've always wondered about that?? Protecting the investment...?????

bear

 

[Chadman]

I have witnessed change along these lines in two of my favorite areas...Kansas City's Westport area and Denver. I have not been to either for a while, but in the past 10 years I have seen them go from really nice, fun and enjoyable areas to spend some time in to areas you don't want to be in after dark. Panhandling or worse, groups of thugs hanging around, that kind of thing. I can remember walking around shopping, bar-hopping, having a great time when I was old enough to enjoy the night life and on trips. The last couple of times I've been in both were just awful. Probably more of the same as described above. A lot of population sprawl away from LA/Cali, to hear some tell it.

 

[ImFeklhr]

Yeah wasn't the termed coined from what happened in Detroit? Not sure....
Here in SF, it started off as white flight but then just became economic flight. Families get bigger and start to get better jobs, so they move to the 'burbs so they can have bigger houses with pools, or whatever. Even the Latino or Chinese families that moved in when whites moved out, have started to moved on to the burbs.

Seems like the natural progression of things in this country right?

Neighborhoods change from English to German to Irish to Italian to Chinese to Vietnamese to Russian to Nigerian or whatever. Aside from the natural tendancy to wish things stayed the same in every neighborhood forever, I think it is a pretty neat way to mix things up over and over again.

 

[dawgball]

Malcolm Gladwell's book, The Tipping Point toucheson this subject. I think he said that the tipping point for neighborhoods is 18% according to census records.

Up to the point where the neighborhood has 17% minority population, nothing major changes. But once it hits 18%, it immediately shoots to somewhere around 70-80% minority because of "white flight".

I'll see if I can find those numbers in his book and post them more accurately.

 

[gardenweasel]

bear...i think the security at the inner harbor is more intense than an israeli airport......

those youngster`s had little chance of soiling the inner harbor.....it`s more likely that ted nugent would join the "Sarah Brady Center Against Gun Violence".....

loyola?......a nice school........must be a sharp young guy....the apple never falls far from the tree.... :yup

congrats...

 

[ELVIS]

come to memphis - you will learn the meaning quick. our city keeps expanding north,east,south - west is downtown/river/ark. i have seen neighborhoods up and down over the last 25yrs.

our issue has always been white/black, but the hispanic population is growing rapidly.

 

[Roger Baltrey]

White flight happens in any major metro area and is more affiliated with a fear of African Americans than Hispanics. A couple of black folks move in and "there goes the neighborhood". Realtors can prey on this by scaring other folks into selling by convincing them that the value of their home will sink like a stone. I have seen it ruin perfectly good neighborhoods and I've also seen it combated by common sense. One huge and easy remedy....No "For Sale" signs allowed in front yards. If you see a neighborhood with many of these, it is perceived as a dying or decaying neighborhood.