Who Supports the Troops?

Jabberwocky

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If you don't "support the troops" please raise your hand.

Does Anyone Really Not Support the Troops?

Yesterday I moderated a panel on whether the mainstream media is fair and balanced at the Take Back America conference. Do they wittingly or unwittingly slant the news in favor of the right-wing in this country?

I think there was consensus among the panelists (Richard Wolffe, Newsweek; David Shuster, MSNBC; Dan Froomkin, Washington Post; Duncan Black a.k.a. Atrios; Craig Crawford, Congressional Quarterly; Keith Boykin, BET and keithboykin.com; Marisa Trevino, Latina Lista) that the media does not have an intentional bias. I know some might disagree, but it was at least our conclusion that there is no corporate cabal that tells the reporters what to write in favor of Republicans.

On the other hand, there was also universal consensus that the media often gets the priorities and the emphasis wrong. So, there will be more stories about John Edwards' haircut than about the Downing Street Memos that showed the US fixed the intelligence that led us into the Iraq War. There are several reasons for this. The two most important ones mentioned were the enormous right-wing echo chamber that still controls the conversation and the lack of engagement by the Democratic Party in the media wars.

What do I mean by the right-wing echo chamber? You can take any insignificant story from the Republican Congress investigating Bill Clinton's Christmas card list or his cat or his haircut or John Kerry's haircut or John Edwards haircut (do you sense a theme here?) and see how it got to be a runaway story. It always goes through the same familiar circle -- Drudge Report, Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly Factor, Hannity & Colmes, the Radio Factor, the Sean Hannity radio show, every other conservative talk radio show in the country, every Fox talk show, every Fox "news" show. Rinse and repeat.

On the other hand, when there is a devastating story about Republican failures, the press runs it -- once -- and then it dies. For example, does anyone even know who David Safavian is? He was the Administrator for Federal Procurement Policy and he was convicted in the Jack Abramoff scandal. Can you imagine if the person in charge of setting purchasing policy for the entire government for the Clinton White House was convicted on corruption charges? The earth would have stopped rotating on its axis. The Republicans would have impeached anyone who had ever walked within a two mile perimeter of the Clinton White House.

But since there is almost no progressive media infrastructure to constantly rehash these stories, they die a quick and unceremonious death. It is not the journalists' job to keep repeating the same story over and over. It is up to the opposition to create story lines or conversations around it.

The fact that Democrats and the establishment progressives have still not understood this fundamental concept almost speaks to their intelligence. They keep punching you in the face, you might want to put your hands up. And have you ever considered this -- punching back?

This brings us to point number two -- Democratic weakness. It is a familiar talking point, but this time it's not because of the right-wing noise machine, it's because it's true.

Quick example here is the filibuster issue. When the Democrats were in the minority, filibustering anything in the Senate was called extreme and radical. The Republicans demanded "up and down" votes on every issue. Now when Republicans are in the minority, the filibuster is taken for granted. It's not even mentioned in news stories anymore. The reporter explains that you need 60 votes in the Senate as a matter of course to get a cloture vote.

Totally different language and attitude about the same exact issue. And it wasn't like the change happened over the course of a generation. It happened instantly. I remember the bygone days when filibusters were considered extreme -- six months ago. Now, Republicans even filibuster non-binding resolutions. The history books have been erased and even stories from last year are instantly forgotten. It's now a cloture vote -- and it is a matter of course.

How do the Republicans get away with this blatant rhetorical trick -- and get the mainstream press to accept it completely? Yes, it is partly the media's fault. They should question the Republicans when faced with this obvious hypocrisy. Did they all start their careers five months ago? What's their excuse for not realizing this clear Orwellian maneuver?

But the opposition party is a thousand times more culpable. Is there even an opposition party? Where the hell are you guys? Do none of you realize what game is being played on you? Are there no Democratic leaders smart enough or savvy enough to realize that their lunch money has been stolen? Don't they get hungry at lunch?

It shouldn't have to be my job to point out that you're getting rooked in the media because you are not putting up an effective opposition. It should be patently obvious to you. If Democratic leaders complained once or twice about the use of the word filibuster, or insisted that the Republicans actually carry one out (I would love to see the Republicans speaking for 24 hours straight about why a non-binding resolution must be defeated) or even simply used the same rhetorical trick the Republicans did and demand "up and down" votes, they would be a million times better off. Wake up already. We're tired of sitting by your hospital bed nursing your wounds after the Republicans deliver another rhetorical ass kicking to you.

Which brings me to my title. The war in Iraq has been going on for nearly four and half years and the Democrats have still not figured out a way to get out of the verbal trap known simply as, "support the troops." Come on, I feel sick writing about it. It's pathetic.

Who doesn't support the troops? Really, can you name a single person in America who thinks, "Yeah, I don't really like the troops. I wish them harm." That is beyond preposterous. How can that possibly be an effective talking point? Let alone the most devastating catch phrase of our generation? How can the opposition be so feckless, so painfully incompetent?

Every single person in America supports the troops. I honestly can't think of any reason why a sane person wouldn't. The question is WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THOSE TROOPS? The questions isn't whether we support the troops but how do we support the troops?


After all, if the Democrats really disliked the troops, wouldn't they just leave them in the middle of Iraq for the next fifty years? Oh no, that's right, that's the president's plan.

Do you support the troops by sending them to die for an unnecessary mission and keeping them in the middle of an unwinnable civil war? Or by sending them on reasonable missions against the people who actually attacked us on 9/11? If you can't win this battle, I'm not sure you're capable of winning any political fights.

I grow more convinced everyday that the Democrats didn't win anything in 2006. The American people were simply vomitously sick of the Republican Party. They didn't throw out the Republicans, they threw them up. The body politic rejected the virus.

The Democrats weren't the doctors, they were the curious bystander in the room who got the regurgitation on their shirt. And now they don't know what to do with it.

Clean it up.

Now, on the other hand, you can't give the mainstream media a pass, either. How can you write about this with a straight face? Does any real journalist wonder whether the Democrats are actually against the troops? Do they wonder if the Democrats are against America and want the troops to get hurt? Come on, can anyone really believe that?

So, if you don't believe it is even remotely true, then why would you write about it as if it's a real issue? Here's a response a journalist with any sense and ethics would say to a Republican politician who uses this talking point, "Senator, do you believe the Democrats really intend to harm the troops? Do you have any evidence of this? Can you name names, who are these villains who hate our own people? If you can't answer these questions, can you please tell me the real reason for your policy in Iraq without pretending you speak for the troops?"

Is it ever going to get better? Are the Democrats ever going to find out what game is being played on them? Is the media ever going to get tired of accepting Republican talking points as legitimate discourse?

Is there any hope that smart, honest people will be leading this country soon instead of the crafty and the craven? Or that the press can tell the difference between the two?
 
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pt1gard

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its not the troops fault that they that are going crazy and oft times murdering innocents for sport and amusement ... weve seen this in Nam and here and panama ... its the salad dressing psychopaths and banker marionettes dumping in acne faced kids into an unwinnable situation ... so supporting the troops is a nebulous topic, least how i see it ... do i feel sorry for the young kids suckered into going, yes.... do i support any of them murdering innocent people, of course not.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Jabberwocky

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Wayne, if you you really believe that any sane dem wants the terrorists to "win" then you are beyond hope. Btw, where is UBL? It would have been a hell of alot more meaningful to capture the guy responsible for 9/11 than to overthrow a secular and stabilizing force in the middle east. Do you ever ask yourself why the US with all of its military might can't find one guy? Kinda makes you wonder.

rumsfeld_saddam.gif


hmmm....

bush_abdullah_chaching.jpg
 
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Jabberwocky

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"-even Hellen Keller can see the obvious

Even the blindest of liberals have to acknowledge which party the terrorist want in power."

:00x12

Holy Crap Wayne. You really have to let go of this liberal/terrorist connection.

btw, I have alot of family in Paducah, very near your neck of the woods. Next time I am up there I would love to play some golf with you. Best wishes and happy holidays.
 
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gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
lawschool is a good place for you,jabber....

the msm has a right wing bias?....lol...keep repeating that...over and over again..maybe when everyone stops laughing.......

given the timing,i`d guess that this conference was probably thrown together to try and cover for nbc`s(and pmsnbc`s)total f-ck-up in deciding to not run those generic pro-troop adds that mentioned nothing about iraq or afghanistan....

they cited every bogus,b.s. reason for not running the tributes.....and then caved in like a house of cards....

obviously it was just a "mistake"...

now,lets get back to important stuff...like the tapes of us interrogating mass murderers by pouring water on their faces for seconds at a time.....


"the road to the truth is long and lined the entire way with annoying bastids"....

/jablokov
 

roc612

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WORTH IT?
Good points Jabberwocky
I dont support this admin 's foreign policy(if you can even call it that) but I have always supported the troops-PERIOD
The democrats- they better find some backbonewould like to see the mean dog streak in them show up every now and then-But its kind of Ironic that the party who isnt supported by the Christian coalition is the one who practices the teachings of JC better( Turn's the other cheek when attacked, and at least Questions things like torture and murder)Wonder if the dems destroyed any kind of tape what the uproar would be right now

In
regards to going to war-The question about this war is simple.Did Saddam have absolutely anything do whatsoever with the events that lead up to 9/11.
we all know the answer to this.
GWB had a hard-on to go get saddam and we have now had over 3800 soldiers sacrificed and over 20,000 severely wounded.worth it?
we are over 3 trillion debt with no end in sight and William Jefferson Clinton left this administration a surplus of cash 6.9 yrs ago.( a positive versus a negative for the gamblers on this board-Of course the money aspect is never mentioned by DTB or any other blind follower of the GOP-Just dump this war bill on the middle class and our kids and grand kids- When foreign countries stop buying our debt remember i told you so!)worth it?
The questions is -was the sacrifice of our troops who gave their lives a good investment.worth it?
Could the resources we spent so far been used to find the real culprit OBL(maybe not , but 3 trillion is alot of $$ so I like our chances.)
The bigger question- Are we any safer today than we were before Operation Iraqi freedom.We now take our shoes off when we go to the airport to travel- so I am sure we are. Worth IT?Notttttttt
Exit strategy? is there one- the Dems stopped asking the GOP and the Pres for an answer on this- they should ask him every Fvcking day in my opinion.The gop doesnt have to many bright bulbs- The Dems are NOT the brightest bulbs either -thats for sure. Their also not war hawks- I will take the non war hawks
God Bless us all and especially our troops and those in need.God Bless our leaders(even those I definitely dont ever support)they need it also
Blessings to all
Roc
 
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roc612

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"Understand that all battles are waged on an unconscious level before they are begun on the conscious one, and this battle is no different. The power structure wishes us to believe that the only options available are those which they present to us, we know this is simply not true, and therefore we must redefine the terrain of this conflict, and clearly, it is a conflict of worldviews and agendas." - Teresa Stover

=
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." ~ Dresden James
 

marine

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its not the troops fault that they that are going crazy and oft times murdering innocents for sport and amusement ... weve seen this in Nam and here and panama ... its the salad dressing psychopaths and banker marionettes dumping in acne faced kids into an unwinnable situation ... so supporting the troops is a nebulous topic, least how i see it ... do i feel sorry for the young kids suckered into going, yes.... do i support any of them murdering innocent people, of course not.

recommend a book to you... Lone Survivor
It's about Operation Redwing.

3 SEALs died, 1 survived - written by the survivor. They were faced with the choice to either kill or turn loose a goat farmer that stumbled upon their location.
They turned him loose, he went and told the Al Queda and they showed up and ripped the SEALs up.
Factored into their decision making on whether to let the farmer go was the way the media would portray them and the potential murder charges and war crimes they would face.
 

roc612

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Marine,
I read it- the author (the survivior-Marcus Lattrel) dislikes(putting it nicely) anyone who is a progressive and wasnt afraid to say it in his book.He Didnt hide it a bit.
I am sorry to say I felt it was written with a biased style to basically challenge anyone who doesnt support the war in Iraq.
Great book.He made it sould like anyone in special op's has to have/must have a hatred for non-GWB policy backers. It appeared to me his Texas loyalty to the GOP came thru loud and clear.
I also dont feel that pt1gard was refering to a special op'as type soldier on the kind of mission the author was on.
I've also read /seen on US televison that the unwritten rule at the pentagon is that up to 30 innocents can be "sacrificied" in Iraq /afghansitan when a patrol is on a mission to capture terrorist operatives*(if it warrants it")IE: our non- written collateral damage policy so to speak.So I am guessing they assessed incorrectly the goat farmer was a non-threat
 

Chadman

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given the timing,i`d guess that this conference was probably thrown together to try and cover for nbc`s(and pmsnbc`s)total f-ck-up in deciding to not run those generic pro-troop adds that mentioned nothing about iraq or afghanistan....

they cited every bogus,b.s. reason for not running the tributes.....and then caved in like a house of cards....

obviously it was just a "mistake"...

To the contrary, they cited understandable and acceptable reasons that they sensibly should apply to all political groups that attempt to use the troops to drive traffic to their politically-biased, extremely well-funded right wing Website. Not to mention, taking an openly biased political stance in their commentary against the left IN the ad.

But don't let those things qualify as anything real or anything. Keep fighting the good (B.S.) fight, my friend.
 

bjfinste

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nbc`s(and pmsnbc`s)total f-ck-up in deciding to not run those generic pro-troop adds that mentioned nothing about iraq or afghanistan....

they cited every bogus,b.s. reason for not running the tributes.....and then caved in like a house of cards....

Pure bullshit. I expect stupidty like that out of DTB, but not you. If you don't recognize the legitimacy of NBC's initial decision, then you're not as smart as I've given you credit for (and despite our opposition on most issues, I've always felt you were a very bright guy).
 

marine

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Marine,
I read it- the author (the survivior-Marcus Lattrel) dislikes(putting it nicely) anyone who is a progressive and wasnt afraid to say it in his book.He Didnt hide it a bit.
I am sorry to say I felt it was written with a biased style to basically challenge anyone who doesnt support the war in Iraq.
Great book.He made it sould like anyone in special op's has to have/must have a hatred for non-GWB policy backers. It appeared to me his Texas loyalty to the GOP came thru loud and clear.
I also dont feel that pt1gard was refering to a special op'as type soldier on the kind of mission the author was on.
I've also read /seen on US televison that the unwritten rule at the pentagon is that up to 30 innocents can be "sacrificied" in Iraq /afghansitan when a patrol is on a mission to capture terrorist operatives*(if it warrants it")IE: our non- written collateral damage policy so to speak.So I am guessing they assessed incorrectly the goat farmer was a non-threat


I agree with his disliking non GWB policy backers and saw it in his writings in the book and was a little disappointed with it at times actually. I would really be curious as to whether he felt that strongly about it before redwing happened, or if because of what happened to his team he has become much more vocal about it and bitter towards them.
sorta like cindy sheehan... she wasn't very vocal and in the spotlight before her son died, but because of the events that happened to her, became a very vocal voice in the movement.
 

djv

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TALK IS CHEAP. This thing with NBC is BS. These groups that put out this junk about we support the troops. They should get off there asses go down to there local American Legion and help. With the cookie drives and candy getting sent to the guys and gals for this xmas.Better hurry most have to go out in next few days to get there on time. Still time to help with the card drives signed by many in there communities thanking them for all they do. These are things that really count.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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What we have here is a failure to communicate!

If those here looking through the secular progessive PC eyeglasses--had opp to swap one month with troops in the field I can assure you that you would have diff perspective.

Is hard enough for troops to experience travesties of war with those who have little regard for cutting throats-intentionally targeting civlians ect--only to have entities here trying to defend them.

I can guarantee you the troops don't think running front page stories dissing them humiliating the enemy while in same token wants to give these cut throat combantants same rights as civilians-equates to support--and to go one step further--the enemy sees these antics as a gross weakness to be exploited.
 

roc612

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DTB,
Give it at FREACKING rest once awhile -will ya. Turn off the -all Rush Limbaugh station- all the time-that you have churning in your head.
Try to remember that we "USED" to be the nation every other nation (I am talking the civilized ones here) looked up to..
That's not the case anymore and some of its because of our aggresive effort to go to war in IRAQ for manufactured reasons(some people- like me would call those manufactured reasons LIES- Oh Yeah..thats right ...they were lies)
watch the news on the BBC- -get a non- RUSH LIMBAUGH/non- Sean hannity perspective. You might even learn something about what the rest world thinks(and also what they know).they dont have to digest bvllshit daily on FOX either
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
Pure bullshit. I expect stupidty like that out of DTB, but not you. If you don't recognize the legitimacy of NBC's initial decision, then you're not as smart as I've given you credit for (and despite our opposition on most issues, I've always felt you were a very bright guy).

by all means....please explain nbc`s initial decision.....

and then explain why they reneged.....

:SIB
 
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