Why do YOU want a war?

[Nick Douglas]

ferd,

I never said anything about not wanting this or any other war. I just said that it was silly to say, "Nobody wants a war," one minute and then say, "I think a war is necessary," the next. NOTHING is ever necessary. You may believe something is necessary for your own sanity, survival, etc., but there are always choices. If you think a war is "necessary", then you want a war, plain and simple.

I actually think dawgball may have given the smartest answer in all that has been written about this war on this message forum. If your elected leader says, "We should go to war," then you should support it. I know some will argue that they didn't vote for this particular leader, but EVERYONE, by being a citizen of the country, agrees that leaders should be democratically elected and therefore there is a strong argument that you should listen to and agree with what your leader says in matters of great importance.

One thing that is undeniably true is that a country or any other entity weakens when there are too many chiefs and not enough indians. I know that I, along with most Americans, value the right to form your own opinions and speak out on dissenting opinions, but when push comes to shove, there is something to be said for maintaining the overall strength of your beloved country.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Why is Hussein so much more of a threat to the US today than say 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

He's had chemical weapons since at least the 80's. He doesn't have the nuclear bomb. His army (I believe 4th largest in the world at the time) was decimated in the Gulf War. There is no proof of any direct relationship between the Iraqi government and the probable perpetrators of 9-11.

Has he harmed American citizens? Has he threatened the US? If so, how? Look people, I don't think this guy is gonna win any lifetime humanitarian awards and from what I've been able to read he's not somebody you want in the neighborhood, however, I need more proof of threats to the security of the world than what I've heard so far from this administration.

Analogy to Hitler v. Churchill is ludicrous. Hitler had the manufacturing capabilities, technology, money, supplies, armies etc. to pose a serious, viable threat to Britain, France and US. Iraq couldn't beat France in a game of Risk. No comparison at all.

Shrimp had a good point. I think Bush could convince the majority of Americans that Lichtenstein is a threat to the security of the peace-lovin folks of the western world. Is that because Bush is such a smooth talker like Billy C. Nah. It's because the majority of Americans react with passion and emotion just because their leaders apply some catchy phrase like operation freedom to legitimize some killing they want to do to advance American economic interests.

As Gene Wilder said in Blazing Saddles "....you know, morons...". Nothing has been said on this thread or any other thread relating to the upcoming "Operation Whatever" that justifies the killing of Iraqis and Americans. Nothing!!!!

The irony is that the Iraqi's are dismantling there weapons in order to avert war which will make killing them that much easier. I wonder how many of our true-blue, right wing, members of this board just thought to themselves "....good." One thing is for sure, there are two americas out there. God help us all.

E. Haskell

 

[gardenweasel]

..as far as the churchill analogy,my point was that the french and the rest of europe has a habit of burying their heads in the sand(their foreign policies have been laughable for 100 years-that`s why they are no longer a world power) ....and the fact that saddam would have had nuclear weapons if israel hadn`t taken out their reactor in 1981....i outlined saddam`s foibles above....the invasions,the murder......maybe we disagree on the remedy,but the guy is every bit as bad as milosovich in bosnia...and given the means,and without the u.s.`s intervention,do you doubt that he would wipe out israel if he could somehow obtain that nuclear weapon that he was deprived of in 1981?possibly purchase the weapons or technology fronm n.korea?....

and that post regarding the 10 reasons why i want a war...to kill non whites?(it`s hard to take anybody seriously after that comment).....to kill iraqi people?.....american propaganda?.....man,why do you hate our country so much?....everyone is entitled to an opinion....but,talk about propaganda...the trash you put out there is political garbage........

lots of guys on here disagree....kosar...shrimp....aldabra....and others put out intelligent anti-war arguments....and it`s an excellent give and take.........hell,i`ve said myself that i couldn`t call for a full scale invasion of iraq.....an unbelievably tough call that i would have trouble condoning......but the "hate and blame america" stuff that is put out there is very sad.....

i`m gonna amend this thread....and lay off the iraqi situation debate.....after reading the "10 reasons i want war post",i see this debate is turning into silly political satire.....g.l. guys...

 

[fatdaddycool]

Nick,
I have to disagree with you. Blind loyalty to anything or anyone is not the strong suit of todays society. You will never be able to convince the millions of Americans that they should follow a leader that lost the majority vote in an election. Regardless of the propaganda, the reasons as stated by Bush and his reps. for war are largely unfounded, if you were to base it STRICTLY on what you, Nick Douglass, knew to be true, would you make a call to arms? Yes he had a drone and a cluster bomb that "if modified" could possibly distribute chemical/biological weapons. He has agreed to disarm somewhat. This is also true. He is a murderer, and a liar. True. His countrymen should decide his fate, they are the ones that suffer at this hand. I could see a removal by force maybe but that should be up to them. I don't know why I would want a war other than to see him euthanized.

 

[ferdville]

If only one thing is clear from this thread, it is that MadJacker's are probably not too different than the citizens of the U.S. as a whole. One thing that I think we agree on is that as "regular guys", we probably (hopefully) don't know all the facts that are available. Other than those simply wanting retaliation for 9/11, I don't think we perceive ourselves as cowboys going in to clean up a town. Most of us would like to see a solution to this problem that didn't involve war. I have been around longer than most of you, and I cannot remember a time when there were so many fires that need to be put . Tensions and overall fear were more prevalent during the Bay of Pigs fiasco because we knew that USSR had the nukes and capability to deliver same. But things were a little more black and white then. There just doesn't seem to be one clear and concrete answer to the Iraq mess. I do believe that this situation has once again shown that the United Nations is a waste of our time and money - and believe me, it is mostly our money. Seventeen resolutions demanding disarming and then when it comes to crunch time, everybody changes their mind. If anybody can show me why countries like Camaroon and Guinea, much less France, should have any say over what lies in our future, I would be glad to hear it.

 

[djv]

ferdville older then a lot of dinking water we are. But we have seen some things from a differant light then a lot of the young ones here. Amen to much of what you said above. Your point on black and white is excellent. Just seems there is a lot of gray hanging around. War always has the unexpected. I hope there is dam little of that this time.

 

[ferdville]

My thoughts are the same, djv.

 

[g-hawg]

War is Hell!

War is Hell!

It is pretty hard for me to justify this war for the reason that we may get involved in it and that is OIL! And if you really don't believe that then you should read a bit more. All this conflict will do is make a lot of rich folks richer, and get a bunch of innocent people killed on both sides, and that is no good at all.

I just read today in the paper that, bidding is going to take place on who is going to rebuild Iraq in the aftermath. Guess who's firm is one of the top contenders for that? Haliburton, whom is ran by our good ole VP Cheney!

Saddam is a evil MF, but if one looks at the overview he poses no real threat to our country the man is contained he isn't going anyplace.

Since GW wants Saddam so bad let those two fight it out, winner looser gets to become the others bitch. That way no one is effected and no innocent lives are lost.

Lastly I havent read where anyone mentioned just how much this thing is going to cost us tax payers. There sure is a lot better things that that money could go for right here in the good ole USA.

 

[dawgball]

First of all, nobody on this board knows dick about what is really happening over there. Someone said they read it was about Oil. Where did you read that? Who pays the bills there? I will guarantee you it is a strong Democratic paper. I'm not bashing anyone by that comment. Newspapers and News shows are biased as all get out.

I respect the sentiment of the older few here because they have experienced the pain of an actual war, but I don't think we should stand aside IF there is a reason we need to be over there.

At this juncture, we need to stand and unite as a country whether it is with war or without. We have people in place to make those decisions for our country. I am thankful we have Colin Powell as our head of Security because I trust the guy. I don't personally know him, but I trust that he will do what he things is best for this country's safety.

Someone else can have the last word on this, because us debating about whether we should go to war or not is as pointless as me giving you all my best basketball plays of the day. The only one that could benefit from that is my buddy DTB that likes to find people to fade.

 

[djv]

dawgball there is no IF. We are going to war. We been planning it since last July. When things started to get a little slow with the hunt for Bin. Well the we need to get Iraq got going full steam. Starting to seem like its a crusade. Now they are asking guestion about Bushs resolve and his belief in god and that he prays everday. Folks walking around saying god is on our side. When ever I here that remark it reminds me of the civil war. God was on everyones side in that one. I guess the god of the south must have been a bad one. If I remember right there god lost. But with over 600000 dead in that war I would say no ones god won.

 

[dawgball]

djv--My IF was whether or not there is legitmate reason we should be over there not whether we are going to war or not.

 

[neverteaseit]

These discussions are pointless sometimes, because never anything logical comes from these boards most of the time. It always ends up in a political bashing between pro this and pro that. I am pro war and for many reasons that are obvious to some but not to most.

But I have something very interesting to have you ask some of the anti war people and protestors of the U.S. Next time your in a heated debate about politics and it seems now everywhere I go this is the subject of most discussions. Ask the anti war person what they are protesting about about.

Now I'm not talking about the t.v. people or the road scholar. Just your average JOe blow neighbor when he starts bitching about the U.S. has become a warmonger.


Their reply may take several minutes and then after there done you may ask yourself what did they say.

Then ask them what does U.N. resolution 1441 specify. 9 out of 10 probably have never read it.

After frustration sets in for them move to something easier.

Ask them what is the bill of rights. Shockingly I would be suprised if 1 out of 10 knew this.

Ask them who Congress is.

Ask them about the constitution. 9 out of 10 never even read it. they may know the preamble but that is about it.

Then ask them if they voted. Sadly enough most didn't


Try this sometime the results may shock you. I have done it and it is alarming.

I asked 20 people at work what is the bill of rights and not one could answer my ?

My point is before you start lambasting the leaders of this great nation and the elected officials, know a little about your country yourself. Sit down and read the constitution. Learn about freedom. Learn about democracy and what it stands for. Learn about free speech. It just not about calling someone a c*cks*cker and claiming I can say it because of the freedom of speeech.

Leaders of this country may not make all the right decisions but the are who we put in charge like it or not. Remember we are supposed to be United as One. But lately it seems that is the biggest lie of all!

 

[StevieD]

Does this just apply to Anti-War people?

 

[djv]

I always say to many of the folks when discussing this. Did you vote? Many will say why? I say if your old enough and did not vote. Well then what are you going to do next time there is a elelction. I mean if you feal were going wrong direction in the USA go vote.
Howeve if they did not I alway say you may have your opinion. But make dam sure next time to use it and vote.
Not sure where I see the bill of rights or the constitution haveing anythig to do with our presidents position on Iraq.

 

[neverteaseit]

this applies to all steve. and djv it has nothing to do with the war it has to do with the point of these threads and people who seem to discuss these issues. most of the time they have no idea what they are even blabbering about. but if people are going to protest and cry warmonger at least know what is going on and know a little about what the issues are and what the dam resolutions mean. now i am not saying this about people in this thread. but these threads never get anywhere, most of the time they get locked down.

as far as the bill of rights. quiz a few people you know and see if anyone even knows what it is. my point about this was that many americans have never read the constitution and furthermore know very little about foriegn policy or how our own government even works. but suddenly become experts by watching t.v. or read something in a book or magazine which is always the truth of course. and many want to protest just to protest. most have no idea what the issues are.

we all have this right, many gave their lives for it. but if your gonna do it do it with some class and dignity for those who fought for it. name calling the president is hardly something anyone should be proud of. we are quick to judge before the outcome. no one truly knows who will be right until the outcome.but I know one thing for sure. The world would be a better place with one less dictator in charge and one more democracy added to it.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Hey Nick Always thought of you as pretty sharp tack. Got something I would like you to read and get your(or any others) opinion (which I always value)on it.
It is a little lengthy but once you start I know you won't stop.
It is article entitled "The Rules Have Changed" and contains 15 continuations of short posts which is entire post. It is from an Asian posting forum. Here is link:
http://sg.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.m...rsaddam&sid=380539427&mid=1&type=date&first=1

 

[GlobalTrance]

War against Iraq = keeping the American Hegemony in place . I (for one) am ALL FOR IT !

 

[djv]

Sounds like the Britts may be strating to weeken there support. Or at least find away not to be so deep into this with us.
Starting to wonder why we rushed all these troops and supplies to middle east. We dam sure had no backing to attack. Im not saying we need it but it does look better. To apply Pressure they say. We could apply that with out all that we sent. A few well placed Cruise Missles work well to. Some thing out of wack here in how are government is handling all this. And N Korea to. It keeps coming acrosse that a war was going to happen no matter what. I believe that, and will support it once it gets under way. I just cant seem to understand how we got the cart ahead of the hourse. The whole thing just getts nutty everyday.

 

[TossingSalads]

Some good reasoning in here. Any of you want to change your rationale?

 

[yyz]

my reason is simple.. i want revenge from 9/11



How many iraquis were on those planes??? How many have we arrested and detained since. Alqueda is made of Saudis Egyptians for the most part.

I want revenge to but I want the right people. They are trying to sell us that Iraq was responsible for this or tied to it. We know the saudis and egyptians were there. We don't have to stretch anything there. Yet Iraq won the lottery and gets to be blown apart. Just a little strange that we don't want to F with those we have solid proof were involved I say.

Where you been?