Why I Am Not a Conservative

[WhatsHisNuts]

I just finished John Stossel's book Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity and he referenced the following quote:

"...the conservative position rests on the belief that in any society there are recognizably superior persons whose inherited standards and values and position ought to be protected and who should have a greater influence on public affairs than others. "
-F.A. Hayek, from his essay titled "Why I am Not a Conservative"

This rings pretty true when you look at conservative positions on things like gambling, gay marriage, and abortion.

 

[IntenseOperator]

just wondering....

just wondering....

What is an F.A. Hayek?

 

[Old School]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.A._Hayek

 

[IntenseOperator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.A._Hayek

Thanks

go figure......

Friedrich August von Hayek, CH (May 8, 1899 in Vienna ? March 23, 1992 in Freiburg) was an Austrian-British economist and political philosopher known for his defence of classical liberalism and free-market capitalism against socialist and collectivist thought in the mid-20th century. He is considered to be one of the most important economists and political philosophers of the twentieth century.[1] One of the most influential members of the Austrian School of economics, he also made significant contributions in the fields of jurisprudence and cognitive science. He shared the 1974 Nobel Prize in Economics with ideological rival Gunnar Myrdal "for their pioneering work in the theory of money and economic fluctuations and for their penetrating analysis of the interdependence of economic, social and institutional phenomena."[2] He also received the U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1991

 

[IntenseOperator]

Hayek was born in Vienna into an aristocratic family of prominent intellectuals working in the fields of statics and biology. His father published a major botanical treatise while working as a doctor in the government's social welfare system.

A Kennedy?

 

[gardenweasel]

Why I Am Not A Conservative.....

This rings pretty true when you look at conservative positions on things like gambling, gay marriage, and abortion.

thank god...i was afraid you were gonna implicate some sort of cranial injury.....

to your health,my friend:toast:

 

[Nosigar]

Gambling is evil. Everybody knows that. :shrug:

 

[gardenweasel]

i kid,gmro...i couldn`t resist....alcohol is involved...

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

IO: If you read up on the guy, he's a classical liberal who doesn't associate himself what we now call "liberal". I think his statement is pretty interesting and accurate. Conservatives do seem to think they are the one's that should determine what is moral and what isn't.....am I wrong in that assumption?

Weasel: You're gonna have to try harder than that to offend me, lol. I'll tip back my wine glass for you! Cheers.

 

[Chadman]

To the point of the original post here...I am wondering what fault any true conservative could find with the original comment? There's no doubt in my mind - especially after reading the comments in this forum, that true conservatives feel this mantra is the RIGHT way that all should subscribe.

The important words in his assessment are:

inherited, protected, and greater influence.

For those that care about why this country is so special...I think it's important to look at these words. They are, in my estimation, the same words that preface many arguments supporting the current administration in it's endeavors. Or...maybe more importantly, they avoid these words...

 

[IntenseOperator]

Conservatives do seem to think they are the one's that should determine what is moral and what isn't.....am I wrong in that assumption?

I think you are wrong. I think anybody in power tries to push their agenda. (see Tipper/Al Gore and rap music)

I'm not as edumacated as some in here. My idea of a conservative is not as intrusive as that statement or is also not what some "conservatives" today feel.

I actually just wanted to know the names you were posting invloved in the point. I get John Stossel's program. He's a poor man's Andy Rooney. I didn't know the 1st thing about the other cat. Maybe others do. Outside of the quote....he may have a different opinion if he didn't come from money. (Not that he got any of it early on.)

 

[IntenseOperator]

I'd also advise you not to dry and keep up with GW and his tipping

 

[IntenseOperator]

Conservatives do seem to think they are the one's that should determine what is moral and what isn't.....am I wrong in that assumption?

back to the I think anybody in power tries to push their agenda.

I could be off on any of this...

I don't think conservatives are the ones that think it's morally correct to save the spotted owl's supposed backyard

I don't think conservatives are the one's that throw an added charge on my long distance bill because they think it's morally correct to pay for long distance service for those supposedly unable to pay for it.

I don't think conservatives feel that anyone making over 6 figures should be taxed more aggressively because it is morally correct to help the "disinfranchised" of our society that don't work at all. Basically because someone had some success in this country it's morally ok and their obligation to redistribute through fees/taxes/charges of all varieties.

I'm not trying to get into an ideological thing here. Just saying the original staement is not correct at all.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Which group is interested in what happens in your bedroom? Which group is telling us who qualifies for marriage? Which group is most opposed to online gambling? Which group thinks it is our job to spread the best form of government across the globe?

It's the conservatives. They are on a pedestal telling us all what's right and what's wrong.

 

[IntenseOperator]

Which group is interested in what happens in your bedroom? Which group is telling us who qualifies for marriage? Which group is most opposed to online gambling? Which group thinks it is our job to spread the best form of government across the globe?

now your being selective and getting away from the post.......

"Conservatives do seem to think they are the one's that should determine what is moral and what isn't.....am I wrong in that assumption?"

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

now your being selective and getting away from the post.......

"Conservatives do seem to think they are the one's that should determine what is moral and what isn't.....am I wrong in that assumption?"

Actually, I think I'm still on track. Conservatives want to tell us how to live:
1. Gay marriage is immoral
2. Gambling is immoral
3. Sex is a sacred act that is to be shared only between a man and a woman....anything else is immoral
4. A cell is a living being created by God and deserves to be protected over the right of the mother

Am I still off? I think this is what Hayek was getting at and still supports my interpretation. Conservatives feel they have the duty to decide what is right (moral) and what is wrong (immoral/amoral).

 

[ELVIS]

Actually, I think I'm still on track. Conservatives want to tell us how to live:
1. Gay marriage is immoral
2. Gambling is immoral
3. Sex is a sacred act that is to be shared only between a man and a woman....anything else is immoral
4. A cell is a living being created by God and deserves to be protected over the right of the mother

Am I still off? I think this is what Hayek was getting at and still supports my interpretation. Conservatives feel they have the duty to decide what is right (moral) and what is wrong (immoral/amoral).

close here in opinion, but not all that close.

1. gay marriage is immoral, and is it not natural - imo
2. gambling is f'n evil, but i am addicted and will continue to participate. discipline is the key here.
3. sex should be shared between one man and one woman (safer) but adultery is as bad as homosexuality - maybe worse. adultery breaks vows ....
4. killing babies is a terrible act, who can argue this ? i am not going to pass judgement on anyone that takes abortion as a way out because it is a logical response to an unwanted pregnancy. i would prefer that the morning after pill be used as the baby is not yet formed in the womb...

the assumptions made in this piece are as sound as me assuming that every liberal is a pagan.....

conservatives like myself do want to tell people how to live :

i want to own my guns, i want to be allowed to shoot a criminal on my property that has no business being there, i want the laws to punish violent offenders because human nature unchecked is dangerous, i do not support the current admin, nor do i want to police the world.

i do feel that poverty in america is a shame when we spend 100 millions of dollars abroad. makes me sick. i do want the borders secured as well as possible.

i feel that i am conservative, but the party may not want anything from me anymore but my vote.

on a side note, the republicans do a shitty job with the budget. i would like to see the gov finances run like my personal finances - do not buy what you can not afford and stop buying shit on credit.

in the end, all conservatives are not alike.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Which group is interested in what happens in your bedroom? Which group is telling us who qualifies for marriage? Which group is most opposed to online gambling? Which group thinks it is our job to spread the best form of government across the globe?

It's the conservatives. They are on a pedestal telling us all what's right and what's wrong.

You are being quite selective Gary--
1st on gambling issue--granted it was slipped by Frist and the way it was slipped in was worse part--however the actual vote on particular bill was equal on both party lines-so how do you distinguish which party would have voted for it had it been presented on bill by itself.

On the issues along lines of your quote.

Do you think same sex partners is natural.

On qualifying for marriage--where do you draw the line-sisters--grandfather/grandson--denying either would be per your quote-telling someone if they qualify for marriage:shrug:

Would you want school handing out contraceptives to your pre teen children

Do you believe child porn is freedom of speech.

Are you more concerned with victims rights than criminal rights.

Somehow I believe you and I are same side of most these issues-does that make you a conservative-or me a liberal ?

 

[Terryray]

whoa! About that Hayek quote---He was speaking of continental European conservatives. He takes pains to explain it has nothing to do with American conservatives, or their thought, or their traditions.

Similar political terms over there in Europe, but meanings are very different, as you mention with their use of the name "liberal". Hayek's favorite label for himself was "old Whig" along the lines of Burke, James Madison and Lord Acton---not de Maistre or Alexander Hamilton (or US style liberal like Jefferson).

Hayek, at any rate, was a darling of US conservatives and folks like William F Buckley and his ilk always tried to get him to write a paper somewhat along the lines of "Why I am an American Conservative" (libertarian wing)


On the point of politicians thinking they know better than you do, and passing laws to make you do it---I find as many examples on the left as the right. Listen to all the rules on smoking, nutrition, education, etc that Hillary or a very self-righteous democrat like Carter would like to pass, as a start...

 

[IntenseOperator]

On the point of politicians thinking they know better than you do, and passing laws to make you do it---I find as many examples on the left as the right. Listen to all the rules on smoking, nutrition, education, etc that Hillary or a very self-righteous democrat like Carter would like to pass, as a start...

this is what I was trying to explain

you guys are probably better than I am