why the redsox are pathetic...

[cooz3]

three years ago...we couldnt trade nixon for sosa...people were up in arms...

now its we cant trade fossum ...give me a break...i like the kid...but im not sure he will ever be a full time starter...he's a nice lefty out of the pen but when lineups see him the second time aroud he get shelled

montreal wants fossum and hillenbrand for a bona fide work horse starter in COLON....give me a break this is a no brainer...

do these two have potential ..yeh they do...but i'll take a sure thing over potential anyday...

cooz

 

["TheEdge"]

New GM...

New GM...

Same sad results-the curse lives on!!!

 

[wondo]

I don't think it's as easy as that. You have a top round pick in Fossum in a market where any lefty out of the bullpen will get paid $3-4 million a year. I don't think it works out financially to deal him now. How many times have you seen the Sox deal a guy to have him succeed elsewhere. For once they may learn from their short-sighted prospect for verteran trades.

 

[wondo]

Hillenbrand doesn't do it for me. He seems like a strange bird, too. I haven't figured him out but I sure wouldn't mind him traded when his value is proabably as high as it will ever get.

And for Nixon. I hope they don't trade him. I pegged him as a future perennial All-Star. If you take out a brutal 30-45 day span around August, you could give him 60's across the board with an OFP of 60 if you wanted to. Plus his history in the minors is impeccable and he has a much bigger upside on his hitting ability than he has showed to this point. His makeup seems great and I don't see how you can deal him.

 

[wondo]

Just saw they tried to get Millar off waivers... {edit} Isn't he off in Japan now?

Also,
I see potential as one thing but value as another. If you trade Fossum you haven't gotten value. Value is what the Dodgers did in trading Eric Junge for Omar Daal. That was a $100,000 value. They ditched an 11th rd pick (I think) for a starter who helped them compete. Did it work out? Not really for LA and now Junge is on the big league roster in Philly. But at the time there was a perceived value there.

If you deal Fossum you've lost a guy who's worth $3-4 million a year but you're paying a lot less. Plus with him being a high pick you've already invested in him. you need him to perform and succeed at a level without paying him a huge ML salary, I think. Otherwise you've paid for him early when he's unproven then traded him for a guy who you know you're going to have to pay for.

I see your argument and you might very well be right. I'm just throwing out some opposing thought and playing devils advocate.

I'm ready for baseball!!!! Only a couple weeks left!

 

[cooz3]

fossum is not a starter and in my opinion until he gets another pitch will never be...he is decent and im not bashing him but give me a break....COLON behind martinez and lowe would be a devaststing combination to face in any series...as far as a lefty out of the bullpen we have one already why do we need two?....as far as hillenbrand goes this organization is tripping over itself to get rid of him....why im not sure...i wouldnt just drop him for nothing...but i have a feeling midway through the season or sometime after the all star break we should revisit this trade scenario ....again the sox are talking as if fossum is going to be in the starting rotation and i dont think this kid is ready for it and im not sure he ever will be...he has two solid pitches and that doesnt cut it for a quality starter....

the only reason nixon was mentioned was because a couple of years ago the cubs wanted him in a trade for sosa...and the boston fans didnt like it around here...i didnt understand thier argument then and its the same argument now....

SALARY/ AND POTENTIAL VS. SALARY/AND PROVEN ABILITY

AGAIN A NO-BRAINER FOR ME..

COOZ

 

[cooz3]

I WILL TELL YOU THIS AS WELL...IF FOR SOME REASON FOSSUM STARTS TO STRUGGLE THIS CITY WILL EAT HIM AND THIS ORGANIZATION ALIVE FOR NOT MAKING THIS TRADE...I KNOW IT'S NOT FARE TO THE KID BUT THATS THE WAY IT IS AROUND HERE...I HOPE FOR HIS SAKE HE STARTS OFF GOOD AND CARRIES IT THROUGH THE YEAR BECAUSE IF HE STUMBLES OUT THE GATE...HIS CONFIDENCE IS GOING TO GET HAMMERED BY THE FANS AND MEDIA IN BOSTON


COOZ

 

[wondo]

Right on that point.

My argument doesn't always hold water, but you might say that Fossum is better to hold onto because you are forced to replace a 215,000 salary with one that would be atleast $3mil. And that's assuming you don't count Fossum as a starter. But to replace his role in the bullpen would be expensive. So he has some great value. Trading a high pick is also a little tricky because if you wanted to invest in a guy that much, it would make more sense to develop him.

As for Hillenbrand, he doesn't have a very big upside that he hasn't reached. He cant run and he doesn't play a premium position anymore. So he's got to hit a ton to stay in the lineup. I don't see him staying productive, but hopefully I'm wrong.

On the flip side, I absolutely love Trot Nixon. The guy can hit, hit for power, run, throw and field. What more can you ask? Plus you've got a clubhouse leader and a guy who's done it at every level and is still young. You better damn well get Sosa or Guerrero if you're going to trade Nixon, in my opinion. I'm slanted towards nixon.

 

[cooz3]

wondo i like nixon as well..tough player no nonsense ...but if you could back 3 years ago...would you have traded him for sosa?

i would..and i think in three years we will be doing the same with fossum and colon....


as far as his role in the bullpen ...thats what embry is for and howry is a lefty as well..they are looking to use fossum as a starter this year...not out of the pen....

you made some good points...just really think this was a huge mistake...

cooz

 

[wondo]

point taken... howry is a big RHP, btw.

 

[cooz3]

yeh..yeh...its pre-season but these numbers are alarming .....

fossum ...3 innings pitched...7 earned runs ..era 21.00...

and hasnt exactly pitched to two powerhouse offensive teams...baltimore/pittsburgh


of course its way too early to make an assesment but he hasnt looked good at all...hopefully he turns it around....another bad outing or two expect him to start to get butchered by the locals..

cooz