World War "W"

Chadman

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Of course, this article is left-biased, but the content is disturbing. Some of the concerns posted here are large issues, and are at the base of my distaste of Bush foreign "policy." I honestly believe Bush 2 has done serious damage to US credibility and has motivated other countries to come together to plan against us financially, militarily, and of course with terrorism. Spin it how you want, but I think this one has some real value.

------------------------------

With a Little Help from Republicrats
World War W
By MICHAEL CARMICHAEL

North Korea's detonation of a nuclear device reveals the latest failure of the foreign policy of the George W. Bush and Richard Cheney administration. When Bush and Cheney took office in January 2001, they inherited mature negotiations between Washington and Pyongyang designed to achieve the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. At that time, Bush and Cheney took the momentously wrong decision to abandon the non-proliferation negotiations with North Korea that had been in place for six years in the vain hope that the regime of Kim Jong-Il would be nice, do the right thing and decide voluntarily not to develop nuclear weapons.

Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld followed this same pattern in developing their foreign policy for the Middle East. They inherited advanced peace negotiations between the Barak government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but the Bush-Cheney White House chose, instead, to abandon the Middle East peace process. The results? 9/11, 7/7, the Madrid and Bali bombings and two wars between Israel, the Palestinians and Hizbullah.

Still unable to bring themselves to exercise diplomacy, the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice administration is now preparing to broaden America's military activities in the Middle East in anticipation of a wider, more engulfing and, perhaps, even global war - World War W.

In anticipation of future pre-emptive wars to uphold the Bush Doctrine in military clashes against North Korea and Iran, Donald Rumsfeld recently ordered the re-tooling of a significant proportion of America's arsenal of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) so that they could carry "conventional" warheads. Rumsfeld took this inane decision against the shrill warnings of some of America's leading experts on national security who fear the outcome of such a dangerously unsound policy.

Leading American experts based at Stanford and MIT warn that Donald Rumsfeld's program to re-tool America's ICBMs to carry conventional warheads could precipitate a nuclear world war, and the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, agrees with the experts.

In a stark warning aimed directly at Bush's America, Putin stated that the launch of non-nuclear ICBMs could be misinterpreted, and it might lead to a retaliatory response that could trigger a full-scale nuclear war ala the Doomsday Device of Dr. Strangelove. In the twenty-first century, these Strangelovian fears are no longer far-fetched. In 1995, the launch of an unarmed Norwegian space rocket triggered a nuclear alert that appeared at the time to be an American ICBM attack on Moscow. At that time, former Russian president, Boris Yeltsin, activated his nuclear briefcase and took the first steps to retaliate against a broad array of American targets before he discovered the mistake.

Elsewhere, the Bush-Cheney White House and Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon have ordered a broadening of US military operations in the Middle East. Led by the Nimitz class nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, USS Eisenhower, a strike force bristling with Tomahawk missiles is headed to the Persian Gulf to take up a position to launch an aerial "shock and awe" campaign against Iran. The Prepare To Deploy Orders (PTDO) issued to the USS Eisenhower led Time magazine to call public attention to American moves in apparent preparation for imminent war with Iran. The USS Eisenhower is scheduled to arrive in the Persian Gulf on the 21st of October, just slightly over two weeks before the ominous midterm elections on the 7th of November.
Over the past two years, America and the global community have been bombarded with reports of the White House and Pentagon's detailed military planning to wage war against Iran. With the time clock ticking, and Bush's presidency on the wane, the window of opportunity to launch the next phase of the Project for a New American Century's (PNAC) schemes of global conquest to deliver ongoing US control of world oil reserves is swiftly drawing to its close.

George W. Bush's presidency is deeply unpopular in America, and it is disastrously unpopular throughout the rest of the world. Faced with the probability that Bush will lose power through the midterm elections, the Republicans have been grasping at straws in pursuit of their neoconservative vision of a muscular and aggressive America on a permanent war footing in hot pursuit of the dreams of full-blooded military glory of PNAC. These Republican neoconservatives have a fifth column of support inside the Democratic Party. Headed by Al From, a man who is at once a confirmed neocon and a zealous Zionist, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) supports the policy agenda of PNAC hook, line and sinker.

Worse. At the head of the Democratic Party's campaign to regain a majority in the House of Representatives we find a belligerent bully of a Congressman, Rahm Emanuel. Even though it is the official position of his party to withdraw and disengage from Bush's unpopular war in Iraq, Rahm Emanuel still grants interviews to reassert his support for the war to topple Saddam Hussein even though the war is now recognized as America's gift to those who long for the growth of terrorism in the Middle East. Frequently described as "obnoxious" by his colleagues, Congressman Emanuel rules his official party position as head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) with an iron fist.

And, worse. The Democratic Party's campaign to regain a majority in the US Senate is headed by Senator Charles Schumer. While the majority of his party favour a timely withdrawal and disengagement from Iraq, in what should be regarded as a very curious development, Senator Schumer voted against setting a timetable for strategic deployment from Iraq. Additionally, Senator Schumer has created controversy as head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC). Earlier this year, Senator Schumer endorsed the deeply unpopular Senator Joe Lieberman in his primary campaign against a very popular anti-war Democratic challenger, Ned Lamont. Schumer and Lieberman are both members of the right-leaning group of Democrats who purport to swing a lot of weight on national security affairs in their party caucus and the DLC--as well as being the Bush-Cheney White House's favorite "Democrats."

With the war in Iraq the single most unpopular policy of the entire Bush presidency, it does seem odd that the Democratic Party's dual campaigns to win majorities in both houses of congress are being headed by two pro-war Democrats, both of whom are warmly regarded by the Republican-leaning DLC.

On the global stage, the increasingly ominous scenario unfolding against a backdrop of the US war in Iraq is dark and getting darker. Not only is America moving much more military hardware into the theatre, a constellation of its allies in NATO are moving heavy hardware into the Eastern Mediterranean where they will be in position to cheque any potential retaliation by Syria or Hizbullah against Israel in the wake of a US assault on Iran.

The repercussions of a US attack on Iran could well be dire--especially for Israel and Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. There have been reports in the international media of tens of thousands of suicide bombers awaiting the order from Iran to launch themselves against targets in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, America, the United Kingdom and other allied targets--if Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld give the orders to launch "pre-emptive" war against Iran.

Some of the world's leading military experts now believe that a unilateral US strike against Iran could broaden America's wars in the Middle East to engulf the oil-rich regions of Central Asia. Kazakhstan and Russia are now in possession of massive reserves of untapped oil. The enlargement of NATO that began in the 1990s has led to a new system of counter-balancing alliances in Central Asia involving Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgztan in a new organization called the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). Recently, CSTO conducted joint military exercises at the same time that Iran staged the largest war games in her history. These collateral military operations between CSTO and Iran were stage-setting defensive manoeuvres in advance of the anticipated American attack against Iran so stridently threatened by the Bush-Cheney White House and their minions led by Condoleezza Rice in Foggy Bottom and Donald Rumsfeld at the Pentagon.

Last week, Condoleezza Rice visited the Middle East. In advance of her trip, the reports were to the effect that she would experience an icy reception, but there was vanishingly little coverage of the outcome of her mission in the western media. However, in the Middle East, there was ample coverage. We learn from reports from Cairo that Rice was greeted politely, but when she launched into her usual harangue about American fears of nuclear technology in Iran she met with a wall of cold, hard logic. A stream of Middle Eastern diplomats delivered a calm, cool and lucid concatenation of criticism of provocative US policy in the region. Rice learned, perhaps, for the first time in her life - that American policy for the Middle East should not be predicated on bogus fears about Iran and Iraq but on Israel and its persistent historical denial of human rights to the Palestinians, a travesty of justice that is now entering its seventh decade. From the perspective of Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, Rice's latest mission to the Middle East was a total failure. Their warships, missiles and bombers are now in striking position--and they have a very important ace-in-the-hole--a well-financed fifth column of support in Iran.

With a budget estimated in published accounts of circa eighty-five million dollars ($85,000,000) per year, the US State Department funds a covert pro-democracy movement inside Ahmadinejad's Iran. This US-Iran project has been roundly criticized in the US and in the international media for its financial support of the Mujaheddin-e-Khalq (MEK)--an independent militia that has been labelled a terrorist organization for the past twelve years because of its overt links to Saddam Hussein. That dubious distinction does not prevent the MEK from finding warm support in the Republican-dominated Congress. While the right-wing extremists, Tom Tancredo (R-Colorado) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Florida) are the most vocal supporters of the MEK, at least four more members of Congress have also voiced their support for the terrorist militia. Astonishingly and shamefully, three of them are Democrats. These Republican-leaning Democrats are: Edolphus Towns (D-NY); Gary Ackerman (D-NY) and Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas). In addition to these Republicrats, the rabid Republican right-winger Lincoln Diaz Balart of Florida is known to be a supporter of the pro-Saddam faction in Iran.

An ark of darkness is moving swiftly across American history. Not only has America undertaken to: provoke nuclear war with Russia; wage expansionist wars in the Middle East; precipitate the proliferation of nuclear weapons in North Korea; encourage wars between Israel and its neighbouring territories and conduct its foreign policy through the constant and obsessive resort to belligerent military confrontations instead of diplomacy--the Bush-Cheney White House is also attempting to implement a dynastic succession designed to perpetuate its imperialistic wars for generations to come. The bureaucrat in charge of the vast budget for support of the MEK and other insurgents in Iran is none other than Dick Cheney's eldest daughter, Elizabeth Cheney.

Born in 1966, Elizabeth Cheney is the mother of five children as well as the American bureaucrat responsible for the "democratization" of Iran. As head of the Iran-Syria Operations Group (ISOG), Elizabeth Cheney controls a strategically important unit of the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs at the State Department.

World War W--a grand military scheme to dominate the world's largest land mass and some of the most oil-rich regions of the planet as we enter decades of waning oil production depends in no small measure on the judgement of the Vice-President's daughter, who has only recently returned to her desk at the State Department after taking maternity leave to give birth to her fifth child. "Richard Cheney" was born unto Elizabeth Cheney on the eleventh day of July, 2006. He is now the youngest grandson of America's Vice President - Richard Cheney. Both his grandfather and his mother are deeply involved in critical military planning and intelligence operations designed to alter the face of the Middle East and to recalibrate the balance of power on the planet for at least one hundred years. Both Cheneys, father and daughter, are integral to the execution of America's plans to wage war on Iran.

Given the chain of bad, bogus and downright ridiculous decisions flowing from the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice administration and speaking entirely for myself, I am not confident in their ability to govern America--much less to design, launch and wage World War W.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I believe he has done just the opposite--my reasons are not paragraphs of disputable opinions but rather simple observation--Lybia-Yemen-Pakistan-Afgan-Suadi's ect---all have made serious efforts in capturing terrorist --while when we were a toothless Tiger they not only looked the other way but supported terrorists.

Carrots are much more appealing if you know the other option is a stick and not just talk.

United Nations prime example.

Wonder what history would have been had not Truman-Roosevelt-Kenndy and Reagan played hardball when it called for it?
 
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smurphy

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Dogs, how can you honestly say that those ME countries you mention are make "serious efforts". That seems to be a joke.
 

Chadman

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I see, so you dismiss all of the observations he makes, many with serious substance simply accentuated with his thinking, and say it proves the opposite point because some of those countries - in your disputable opinion - they have made serious efforts in terrorism.

Typical, really. Quick, dismissive of 95% of the substance, right from the playbook.

There are some serious comments made there, man. Undeniable world events that have taken place. The opinions are extra.
 

gjn23

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Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld followed this same pattern in developing their foreign policy for the Middle East. They inherited advanced peace negotiations between the Barak government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but the Bush-Cheney White House chose, instead, to abandon the Middle East peace process. The results? 9/11, 7/7, the Madrid and Bali bombings and two wars between Israel, the Palestinians and Hizbullah.

i only needed to read 2 paragraphs.....what a load of crock.....bush and his cronies and their policys are responsible for 9-11, etc........

the hatred some people have for bush, republicans and to some degree america is sickening..........how in the hell did bush's foreign policy have anything to do with 9-11???????
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"Dogs, how can you honestly say that those ME countries you mention are make "serious efforts". That seems to be a joke."
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Do I have to put up list of terrorist AGAIN that each have been responsible for capturing??

--and I guess I can now add to that list Pakistan part in saving how many lives with hijacking plot?

Got an idea--bookmark this link--
http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/terroristscorecard/

--and you won't have to ask if its a joke again.
 

Chadman

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Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld followed this same pattern in developing their foreign policy for the Middle East. They inherited advanced peace negotiations between the Barak government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but the Bush-Cheney White House chose, instead, to abandon the Middle East peace process. The results? 9/11, 7/7, the Madrid and Bali bombings and two wars between Israel, the Palestinians and Hizbullah.

i only needed to read 2 paragraphs.....what a load of crock.....bush and his cronies and their policys are responsible for 9-11, etc........

the hatred some people have for bush, republicans and to some degree america is sickening..........how in the hell did bush's foreign policy have anything to do with 9-11???????

I am not putting the blame for 9-11 squarely on Bush, but his abject failure in NOT handling (and throwing away) the advanced progress made between Israel and the Palestineans has definitely caused a major upswing in terror activity against US and partner interests. I could find and post links from many middle eastern sholars, specialists, politicians, etc., that have made that quite clear. You could find all that out too, with a quick Google search, I'm sure. But apparently I only have two paragraphs to keep right winger's attention span, so I won't post them.

The same scenario played out in the North Korean situation...immediately after Bush takes office, he trashes the treaty and calls out the North Koreans publicly as his form of foreign policy. The North Koreans ramp up their program...you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

For gjn and Wayne, you guys can stop reading now...paragraph three...gardenweasal will probably stick with me... ;)

You guys brush this off, and many other things that don't give Bush a thumbs up, as Bush hatred. I don't hate George Bush. I think he is a terrible President for a multitude of reasons, but I don't hate the man. I don't know the man. This article isn't laced with hatred, it's a mostly factual roadmap of Bush's foreign policy issues and world events, with the authors tint to it. He isn't meanspirited, and does a good job of relating history in a well documented way.

Wayne hand picks one small (arguable) success in a huge picture and says it makes the case for Bush. You read two paragraphs, it doesn't fit your republican talking points, and you dismiss the rest of the article as being some kind of hate piece.

Sad, really. People make mistakes. To cover them up and refuse to look at them shows weakness, in my opinion. It's so easy to dismiss anything that questions this president as being unpatriotic, leftist, and hate-filled. It's not so easy to examine it or talk it through. So, I guess, I should expect nothing more from people who support Bush - you guys are merely falling in line with the administration and how they "deal" with things.
 

gardenweasel

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maybe bushitler should have sent saddam a couple nuclear reactors.......ala clinton/not-so-bright.......

Updated 10/16/2002 4:47 PM...Usa Today..

North Korea admits illicit nuclear arms program



WASHINGTON (AP) —" In a startling revelation, North Korea has told the United States it has a secret nuclear weapons program in violation of an 1994 agreement with the United States, the White House said Wednesday night.
Spokesman Sean McCormack said North Korea was in "material breach" of the agreement under which it promised not to develop nuclear weapons.

The commitment had raised hopes for a nuclear-free Korean peninsula, but that hope is dashed for the time being, and relations with the United States are back to square one.

The two countries had just resumed high-level security talks less than two weeks ago for the first time in two years. It was during those discussions that North Korea informed the United States of its nuclear activities.

McCormack said the United States is consulting with it allies, South Korea and Japan, and with members of Congress on next steps.

"We seek a peaceful resolution of this situation," McCormack said. "Everyone in the region has a stake in this issue and no peaceful nation want to see a nuclear-armed North Korea."

"The United States and our allies call on North Korea to comply with its commitments under the non-proliferation treaty and to eliminate its nuclear weapons program in a verifiable manner."

U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said North Korea told U.S. officials that it is no longer bound by the anti-nuclear agreement.

The dramatic disclosure complicates President Bush's campaign to disarm Iraq under threat of military force, coming almost nine months after Bush said North Korea was part of an "axis of evil" along with Iran and Iraq.

It seems unlikely, however, that North Korea will become a target country for the United States much as Iraq is nowadays. With war plans for Iraq already on the drawing board and a broader war on terrorism still under way, threats against North Korea could leave the United States overextended.

Until now, the United States' main concern with North Korea has been its sale of ballistic missiles to Syria, Iran and other countries. Now North Korea's nuclear program is added to the mix.

The United States has been suspicious about North Korea's nuclear intentions for some time despite the agreement.

A CIA report in January said that during the second half of last year, North Korea "continued its attempts procure technology worldwide that could have applications in its nuclear program.

"We assess that North Korea has produced enough plutonium for at least one, and possibly two, nuclear weapons."

Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly visited North Korea on Oct. 3-5 and demanded that the communist state address global concerns about its nuclear and other weapons programs.

In response, the Pyongyang government accused Bush's special envoy of making "threatening remarks." The United States refused all comment on the discussions.

Under the 1994 agreement, North Korea promised to give up its nuclear weapons program and to allow inspections to verify that it did not have the material needed to construct such weapons.

But it has yet to allow the inspections, drawing criticism from the Bush administration.

The agreement also called for the construction of two light water nuclear reactors to replace the plutonium-producing reactors Pyongyang had been using. The reactors were being financed mostly by South Korea and Japan. Construction of the reactors began just two months ago.

"""""An administration source said Kelly also raised with North Korea evidence that Pyongyang may have a uranimum-enrichment program. The program, which the United States believes would only be used to develop a nuclear bomb, began under the Clinton administration, according to the official.

Surprisingly, North Korea confirmed the allegation.""""""""""

The Bush administration has not decided how to respond. "We're going to keep talking," an official said.

After months of tension with South Korea, the North resumed high-level talks in August that restarted stalled reconciliation efforts on the Korean peninsula — divided by the most heavily armed border in the world.

The Koreas were divided after World War II and remained that way at the end of the inconclusive Korean War from 1950-53. About 37,000 U.S. troops are stationed in South Korea as a deterrent against the North."

i remember n.korea`s first missile test....in 1998....using japan as the volleyball net.....

what did clinton do as a result of that breach in the agreement?.....we sent them more aid,of course........

the carrot and the carrot ploy......really worked like a charm...

chad...i`m surprised...you`re saying that 9/11 was thouroughly planned, plotted and carried out in the 8 months of the bush presidency?....

i can probably find the al jazeera article that said the plot was formulated in the 90`s...l

does that make clinton culpable for the first 9/11 bombing?...he was only in office for a month or two.....the cole?...khobar towers?....amomg others i could name?....

there`s no upswing in terror activity in our country...last time i checked,we`ve been o.k. since 9/11.....

you think maybe it`s just that after a decade or two of appeasement,burying our heads in the sand etc,that maybe the gathering storm is finally reaching it`s crescendo?....ala ww2....

you think iraq started all this?....maybe the liberal judiciary can pass a law saying that 9/11 actually happened AFTER we invaded iraq.....

that would make more sense...

chad...you can say it`s not bds...that you don`t have an irrational hatred of bush...but it`s like many other liberal pathologies.....it`s irrational...it`s cognitive disonance...

much like ignoring that n. korea admitted that they cheated on the "agreed framework" during the clinton administration...

the number of things that bush has been blamed for in this world since 9/11 (even acts of god like tsunamis, hurricanes and other natural disasters) is the stuff of major comedy.... you name the horrible event, and he is identified as the reason....

and now you`re saying that he`s the reason that "the peace" between the palestinians and israel has been breached?...

what peace?...what planet have you been inhabiting?

the only real chance for peace was anwar sadat...and the monsters killed him..their fellow arab...

he is blamed when he does something (anything) and he is blamed when he does nothing.....he is blamed for things that ocurred even before he was president, as well as everything that has happened since......he is blamed for things he says; and for things he doesn't say.....

what makes bush hatred completely insane however, is the almost delusional degree of certitude of bush's evil....while simultaneously believing that the true perpetrators of evil in the world are somehow good and decent human beings with the world's intersts at heart....

when convenient,he`s an inept moron...and when it`s convenient,he`s an evil genius that plotted 9/11 in the first 8 months of his presidency....

whoa....
 

Chadman

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gw, you draw analogies to my comments that really can't be drawn, IMO. You eventually get to making some kind of point linking me with Bush hatred, idiocy, and irrationality, and I don't think I enter that arena - at least not often. You make claims that neither I, nor the article, make. It all glosses over into another gw rant that winds around many different areas and makes it very difficult to talk back to.

I'm just not going to respond or talk back to points I don't make. You guys can make them for me, but you can talk to yourselves about them, I guess. I dunno.

:shrug:
 

Chadman

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I'm still trying to figure out exactly how Clinton is to blame for the escalation in the North Korea nuclear program. The nuclear power setup (which was to be given up during the Clinton administration through negotiation)was to have been replaced by non-nuclear reactors to be financed mainly by South Korea and Japan. Construction on those didn't even start until after Bush took office. The nuclear program began "under the Clinton administration" but specifics of course are not noted or named. This didn't come out until the Bush administration and one of his officials went public with that info. Unnamed, of course. I'd offer up that many programs and bad things came about during a lot of administrations. But can you tell me how Clinton "armed" the North Koreans with their nuclear program? Maybe I missed something, entirely possible.
 

smurphy

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"Dogs, how can you honestly say that those ME countries you mention are make "serious efforts". That seems to be a joke."
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Do I have to put up list of terrorist AGAIN that each have been responsible for capturing??

--and I guess I can now add to that list Pakistan part in saving how many lives with hijacking plot?

Got an idea--bookmark this link--
http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/terroristscorecard/

--and you won't have to ask if its a joke again.
That's an interesting website, but it doesn't really prove your point. Yeah, they throw us a bone now and then, but there are many more at large than caught. And look how long it's been since a significant capture.

That's funny, there are actually some captured and in custody in Iran - more than Libya, Yemen, or UAE in fact. Does that make them an ally of ours in the war on terror? Or is it arbitrary depending on where our profits might be?
 

kosar

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maybe bushitler should have sent saddam a couple nuclear reactors.......ala clinton/not-so-bright.......

Maybe you should stop with the half-truths and outright lies. For the ninth time (this week alone), let me correct you. We did not follow through on our promise to build 2 LIGHT-WATER reactors. Per the agreement, we, along with Japan and South Korea, were to build and pay for these 2 plants and THEN they were to dismantle their graphite based reactors.

To date, these reactors have not been completed. Depending on what you read, they are scheduled to be done between 2008 and 2010. :rolleyes:

What did Ronnie Raygun and/or Bush 41 do about this problem, since we're rolling out the articles?

The North Korean nuclear weapons program dates back to the 1980s. In the 1980s, focusing on practical uses of nuclear energy and the completion of a nuclear weapon development system, North Korea began to operate facilities for uranium fabrication and conversion. It began construction of a 200 MWe nuclear reactor and nuclear reprocessing facilities in Taechon and Yongbyon, respectively, and conducted high-explosive detonation tests. In 1985 US officials announced for the first time that they had intelligence data proving that a secret nuclear reactor was being built 90 km north of Pyongyang near the small town of Yongbyon.

The installation at Yongbyon had been known for eight years from official IAEA reports. In 1985, under international pressure, Pyongyang acceded to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). However, the DPRK refused to sign a safeguards agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), an obligation it had as a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html
 

smurphy

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Kosar, Weasel obviously doesn't read any info you provide. He's not going to click on that link either. He's just going to reply with some quip including all those *clever* names he has for political figures. More and more, he's reminding me of Sagat doing America's Home Movies. All he's missing is a laugh track.
 

flapjack

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The same scenario played out in the North Korean situation...immediately after Bush takes office, he trashes the treaty and calls out the North Koreans publicly as his form of foreign policy. The North Koreans ramp up their program...you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

There never was a treaty. It was an agreement or understanding in name. NK extorted money and technology out of the US in exchange for not pursuing nukes. We all know now- and most figured then- that it was foolish to trust NK as they had shown consistantly in their past extortions. But one of the major reasons Clinton decided to give NK all of that $ and technology was that the administration believed the NK government would collapse before the reactors were built - with the death of Kim Il's dad. Didn't happen and by 1999 it was obvious to NK that the US had no intention of fully delivering it's side of the bargin - rightly so since we were pretty sure that NK did not stop nor have any intention of stopping its nuke program. NOTE: By the time this calulated risk had failed and unravelled, it was 1999. So, Bush comes in, talks tough, tries to involve other countries that might have more influence on NK. But, like Clinton's efforts, it does nothing to change the NK's focus. The only difference between the 2 policies I can see is that Clinton gave them significant aid and technology. Bush did not. If Clinton's policy was based on NK collapsing, then giving them aid and helping them stay afloat does not make a lot of sense. But, as the media would have you believe, Clinton had that whole NK problem just about wrapped up before Bush came into office. What a joke. Their entire economy is based on good-will foriegn aid, selling weapons and extorting more aid in return for giving lip service about not building nukes.

So, it is obvious both poliicies failed, what would you do about NK if you were in charge? And, I will say this, without a doubt 100%. If Bush had negotiated directly with NK and not brought in China, Russia, SK and Japan, he would have been raked over the coals by the media, the democrats, the rest of the world for his "cowboy/ arrogent/ignorant" negotiating tactics of not bringing in those with more influence over NK. And, you HAVE to know that is true. I can hear it now "Can you believe the arrogence of Bush to think he can just ride in on his horse and try to fix NK without the help of the major players in the region who actually know whats going on and can do something about it?" Does that critisism sound familiar to maybe somewhere else in the world?

We all know when it comes down to it, only one thing will stop NK or Iran. We dont have the fortitude or will to do it. Both governements have a strong enough power structure to avoid a coup or revolution most likley. So, what do you do? Give up hope of stopping them is the only real answer. Both these countries will get nukes no matter what we offer or threaten. Bank on that.
 

The Sponge

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maybe bushitler should have sent saddam a couple nuclear reactors.......ala clinton/not-so-bright.......

Did you know your boy Rummy was on the board of the company that sold them? Just trying to help you out a little weasal.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
Maybe you should stop with the half-truths and outright lies. For the ninth time (this week alone), let me correct you. We did not follow through on our promise to build 2 LIGHT-WATER reactors. Per the agreement, we, along with Japan and South Korea, were to build and pay for these 2 plants and THEN they were to dismantle their graphite based reactors.

To date, these reactors have not been completed. Depending on what you read, they are scheduled to be done between 2008 and 2010. :rolleyes:

What did Ronnie Raygun and/or Bush 41 do about this problem, since we're rolling out the articles?




http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html

nice post flapjack..thanks for saving me some time...let me add...


""But almost immediately upon initialing the Agreed Framework, Pyongyang secretly started up a uranium-based weapons program-purchasing the equipment and technology from Pakistan(and khan`s technology) and others. And almost immediately, U.S. intelligence began to pick up the scent. Nonetheless, the Americans continued to send food aid and heavy fuel oil to the D.P.R.K. for eight years, making it the top recipient of U.S. aid in Asia. By 2002, however, the intelligence had become so overwhelming that the Bush administration felt compelled, on Oct. 3, 2002, to confront Pyongyang with the evidence and ask for an explanation. There followed bold-even insulting-North Korean braggadocio about its nuclear-weapons prowess leading to the cessation of aid and the present crisis."""

and where were those "inspectors",btw?....a 5 year grace period?...that really worked.........lol

and btw...YOU and/or smurph didn`t read the article i posted from 2002 citing that n. korea 'ADMITTED" to cheating on the "agreed framework"......

even dems admit that the carrot/carrot strategy was a failure....but,you won`t read about it in the media....

check the picture of n and s korea i posted in another thread......

where do you think all that clinton aid went?...toward helping the n. korean people?

btw,on the one on one talks...again see my post on the n. korean power grid(or lack thereof)....the analogy of "the dog shitting on your lawn"......

the whole negotiations concept is wrong....why talk with the lacky...he`s obviously not calling the shots....much like hezbollah and iran...

but,the dems just keep changing the bar...moving the goal posts...."you need the u.n"........."you need the world"..."no,you need one on one talks"...

one on one didn`t work for clinton...and it won`t work for bush....

who knows what the answer is...i fell confident of one thing,though,,,it lies with china...not kim jung il...

unfortunatel..as of right now,the current "statement of principles" that was being worked on in the six party talks looks to be about as useless as the "framework" ...

on the face of it, the half-page document accomplishes little and leaves all the details to possibly countless rounds of future negotiations.....

the document apparently lets the n. koreans continue to operate a "power reactor" at yongbyon that can still generate plutonium, and there is no hint that n.k. must dismantle the reactor, or freeze its existing nuclear-weapons programs, or even cease generating plutonium-rich fuel rods.....

:shrug:

somebody has to figure out a way to pressure china....

garner the sac to pressure china.....be it through trade or whatever....we have to make some tough decisions........that`s it in a nutshell...

at the very least...it looks like we`re heading for another cold war...

once we realize...and admit...that the russia`s,china`s and france`s are not allies...in any sense of the word...
 
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