Liberals and their skewed vision of the world..

[Snake Plissken]

i'm sorry to disagree with the majority who have posted so far in this thread

Absolutely no reason to Apologize AR182 if that is the way you believe then stand your ground and speak it. Freedom of speech is one of the things that make this the greatest country on gods green earth.

Last time I checked Bush was having even less success with Bin laden. He gave up on him

Something tells me that the United States did not give up on Bin Laden. I don't know call it a gut feeling

how do you fight terrorism successfully?.....does anybody know how to fight an ethereal,fanatical enemy with no conscience?...i certainly don`t....and it appears that the rest of the world doesn`t care.....

Great Question do you......
1. Try to reason with them
2. Give into their demands
3. Join their religion
4. Kick the living shit out of them

They do not give us much of a choice :shrug:
but if someone else has a different solution I would love to hear it

 

[MadJack]

A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.
-Joe Theismann

:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie

 

[Blitz]

I still disagree with the premise that this war was necessary to eradicate or curb terrorism. Maybe so in the short term. But I believe we (sic) Bush and his crew have worsened the situation in the long term.

Do you think that our actions in Iraq will lessen the likelihood of another 9-11? I respectfully disagree. Muslim fanatics (or for that matter Christian fanatics) will find ways to attack this country here and abroad. Its the price we pay for living in a free society (although not so free anymore).

If you were President (chill up my spine), what would your Foreign Policy be called? "The Bury my head in the sand, hope they all go away policy"?

 

[gardenweasel]

snake...love that quote.....

 

[gardenweasel]

an interesting article...stevie,a counterpoint..

an interesting article...stevie,a counterpoint..

National Public Radio and the major television networks can scarcely contain their excitement. In what they obviously regard as a huge concession, President Bush noted the other day that "No, we?ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the eleventh." Along with most of the Democratic candidates for president, many in the press have been arguing for months that the Bush administration misled the American people by implying a link that did not exist. Put that together with the failure to find weapons of mass destruction, they say, and you?ve got a real indictment.

According to the Democrats? bill of particulars, the Bush administration -- knowing full well that Saddam was not involved in 9/11 -- nonetheless encouraged Americans to believe he was in order to fulfill some Dr. Strangeloveish neocon battle plan for Iraq. The administration further lied when it offered the existence of weapons of mass destruction as a rationale for war. If what the Democrats say is true, we are dealing with one of the most dishonest and corrupt administrations in history.

But there are a few problems with their analysis. In the first place, no one in the administration ever claimed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. The president pinned blame for that attack firmly on Al Qaeda. But the president and his administration also clearly stated that the war on terror was not limited to Al Qaeda, that it was a global war that would be fought on many fronts. The Axis of Evil included (in addition to Iraq) North Korea and Iran, neither of whom bears direct responsibility for 9/11 either. And the administration has dispatched troops to the Philippines as well as Afghanistan and Iraq.

Democrats point to polls showing that large numbers of Americans believe there was a link between Saddam and the attacks on 9/11. Now, how could people come to that belief? Perhaps because they?ve heard the uncontradicted reports that Saddam did have ties with Al Qaeda. Or perhaps they were thinking of the fact that he permitted Baghdad to become a haven for terrorists like Abu Nidal and others who lived out a comfortable retirement on his generosity. Or perhaps they were considering that Saddam Hussein paid the family of each suicide bomber who killed innocent Israelis the handsome sum of $25,000. Or maybe they had heard about the 707 Saddam maintained at Salman Pak for terrorists to practice hijackings on?


Saddam the Baathist (Baathism is a kind of socialism) had in his later years seen how the wind was blowing in the Arab world and begun to adorn his terror state with certain Islamic trappings. Cozy relations with Islamic terrorists suited his purposes. They had the same enemies -- Israel and the United States. But, like other Arab leaders, Saddam was aware of the Islamist threat. While the Islamists were at war with the West, they were also casting covetous glances at the secular states in the Arab world. Saddam followed the Sun Tzu logic to keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

The failure to find WMDs by this point is certainly puzzling. But the Democrats and the press -- most egregiously the BBC -- have adopted an interpretation that is simply childish. In Britain and the United States, liberals are charging that the governments of Blair and Bush purposely lied. In Britain at least, Blair?s chief accuser at the BBC, Andrew Gilligan, has himself been revealed to be a liar. But do the U.S. accusers really believe that Bush made it all up? If that were true, why did all of the intelligence services in the world as well as the U.N. Security Council conclude that Iraq did have those weapons? If it were true, why didn?t Hussein invite the U.N. inspectors into Iraq and prove that he had no weapons? Why throw the inspectors out altogether in 1998? Why risk and lose his kingdom for weapons he never had? It doesn?t make sense.

But even if (and it?s a big if) the weapons are never found, are we to conclude that the Bush administration took the nation into an aggressive war for oil or glory or some other goal? The Saddam regime was one of the most ghastly and horrific on the planet. On those grounds alone, the world should be thanking us for being willing to risk the lives of our soldiers to free the country. The regime was also a friend to every enemy of peace in the world. If Saddam had remained in power, gained nuclear weapons, and lived to menace the entire region and the world, President Bush would be condemned by history for failing to act before it was too late. For showing fortitude and good sense, he is condemned only by the small-minded.....

mona charen


this answers a few of the questions posed...an interesting read,whether you agree with it or not......but, certainly doesn`t answer the question,what the hell do we do now?......

 

[Mr Hockey]

Re: Re: Liberals and their skewed vision of the world..

Re: Re: Liberals and their skewed vision of the world..

This is your brain on drugs.

+1

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Whats up AR, I've been gone for a few days.

You might as well give up trying to discuss issues with the far left in a logical atmosphere.
Case in point:
They want ban on prayer and Plegde of Alliagiance but think the work F-ck is cool.
Prostest one day for gay rights the next for Aids awareness and increased funding.
Diss the military at start for killing innocent civilians now cry and wail bout military casualties,hmmm I wonder where these people who think our amount of casualties since may 1st were when 241 marines were killed in barracks in Lebenon in one day.
Was watching the protest at world trade deal and you have a totally peaceful demonstration by the working labor yet the radical left with their died hair who never probably held a job in their life other than protesting were were doing their thing.
Which brings me to a question. Why do you have continual protests from special interest groups on the left year round but very few from conservatives. I have to assume from demographics of the voting public in past elections that one works and the other has too much free time on their hands.
The sad thing is for terrorist to succeed one of their 3 primary objectives is to divide allegiance and when we are at war with terrorist regardless which party is in power it will always be my choice to give comfort and aid to the president and the military rather than aiding and abetting the terrorist.
Don't know where Bush will be graded as president in future,but my hats off to him and especially Tony Blair for not swaying off unpopular decisions to some.
----and if you want to debate that issue,remember your opposition are those that think gods gift was one convicted of pergury-impeached,disbarred and damn lucky to escape imprisonment.---so let them do their thing--ironically it was those that carried the weapons that enable them to carry their signs,so I'll have to respect that.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

So much too say, so little time.

Bobby, I've been around but busy chasing ambulances. Been keeping up with the nonsense on this board from the neanderthals on the right but realize I have about as much of a chance to enlighten those troglodytes as I have to do the mombo in the sheets with any of the babes Dr. Strangelove posts up.

I do listen to NPR to get, what I believe is a balanced perspective. When you consider the alternative (corporate radio) its a no brainer. Speaking of no-brainers, Blitzie, if I were President, I wouldnt have a cutesy name for my foreign policy like "Operation Iraqi Freedom" or some such other PR identity to play off on the morons who make up the majority of the population of this country.

Beating the f*** outta somebody aint my way of negotiation. True to your right wing beliefs and philosophy, you all continue to blow smoke over the lack of a tie-in between the UNWARRENTED, PREMPTIVE ATTACK ON A COUNTRY and 9-11. For the last time smoke blowers:

9-11 = religous fanaticsm (something you Christian right people outta be aware of)

Iraq = secularism and a totolitarian dictator.

Why dont you have the same fervor about Tim McVey? Hell, why dont we launch a preemptive strike against the militia of Michigan for blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma City? Logic is the same (only difference is color of skin and rags on head).

The reality kids is that there is alot of prejudice in this country and its masked by the most deadly and insidious trait this country possess, that is....patriotism. That and religion (ironic isnt it) have killed more people than anything else I can think of.

Back to the president issue, Blitz, I would look at ourselve and look at them, figure out what they hate about us, change some of the things that they hate about us that are valid and TALK out a solution. You guys like to kick sand in the face of the skinny guy on the beach. I dont.

In a free society, people who do not like us, will fly planes into buildings and fill up trucks with manure and blow up federal buildings. Price we pay. Unless, in the first case, we dont invade their respective companies with an onslaught of McDonalds, BP stations, and The Gap, displacing their religion and telling them how to live their lives.

Baby, I understand why some people think we are the Great Satan. Until we realize we are not Biff in Beach Blanket Bingo and that we do some very wrong things to other people in other nations, I expect continued terrorism and hatred of this country. Thats the reality and it didnt come from NPR.

AR, I still liked Barcelonas'. You live in a great place. Weasie, kiss my ass. Any shot I take is made in fun. Especially when I tell someone to kiss my ass. Yeah, this debate pushes buttons with me cause I feel (just as strongly as my bretheren on the right) that we are talking about the future of this country and what it stands for.

To provide balance to the originator of this post, I strongly believe Bush is a puppet for corporate america and a very evil man. Let me correct that, he is too stupid to be evil. He just knows who butters his bread and he is totally, blindly, beholden to them. When Cheney tells him what to do ( and believe me he does), the spineless one does it.

We have elected (once again let me correct myself), the President in power is a joke and a very sad time in American history. He is using his position to enhance his friends wallets, limit American freedoms, and otherwise widen the gap between the citizens of this country. He should be impeached.

But, alas, with a right wing congress and court system, the power structure is in place. Hey Dr. Strangelove, know of any lovely Cape Cods', with a white picket fence in a pleasant suburb of Toronto for sale. I wonder how I would look in a wig?

Edward

 

[ssd]

Eddie:
I am amazed that a man of your intelligence can be so wrong about so many things. A right wing court! Ha! ROTFLMAO! Did one of those ambulances you like to chase accidentally back over you and bump your head?
"UNWARRENTED, PREMPTIVE ATTACK ON A COUNTRY " He violated every UN agreement that called for a CEASE-Fire to end the Persian Gulf War. The UN did not have the spine to enforce their own sanctions. But i forget, you are of the mindest that we need to appease not punish. Do you have kids, Eddie? Have you ever told your kid "no" without actually enforcing it? How far does it get you? Without the risk of punishment, negotiations, etc are a joke. Just look at the public school system and the mess it is in. Spare the rod and spoil the child fits in so many places nowadays. No - I do not condone the beating of children. They are this countries greatest asset. However, rules need to be followed.
And Eddie, if NPR is "balanced", so is Fox.
Good luck with your agenda. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the mess California or should I say "Kalifornia" is in. I view that state as a microcosm of the country. It has been in liberal hands for at least two decades and look what has happened there. It's not that the people of this country are as you have so eloquently stated..."the morons who make up the majority of the population of this country. " are tricked by the marketing of this current admin. I think that they are tired of the liberal agenda. It promises so much and delivers so little. And that only works for so long.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

SSD How would you consider one to say
"The reality kids is that there is alot of prejudice in this country and its masked by the most deadly and insidious trait this country possess, that is....patriotism." --to have any itelligence

and Edward if you studied any Islamic rhetoric they hated us long ago and not for your reasoning but for what they deem Western values enter your ACLU with their defending pedaphelia-gay,-anti patriotism-anti christmas-protesting-repairation ect agendas.

 

[djv]

The good news is every American has the right to say what's on there minds. Many folks died so we can do that. I understand we have some far left and far right ding bats in our country. But that's why there here. Most would not get welcomes anyplace else. Are far right and far left the norm in our country hell no. Thank God. Even Rushy is getting to far right. It's like posion the water slowley chit. That crap is no good for any of us. Iraq well we did not need to go there in a rush. They were not on there way here to bomb us. That was all pure BS. So we come up with other reasons every other month why were there. Now it's how to get out with out looking like idiots. To bad Rummy didn't think of aplan before we went in. By the way everyone was fired uped to day. We found some WMD. Donkey carts with rockets on them. They were going to ship them to the USA.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

SSD:

Does that stand for Stupid, Stupider and Dumbest. Hell, your making Doggie sound like he has half a brain. Thomas, Scalia, Rehnquist, Kennedy, O'Conner..... liberal? Oyez, Oyez?

Pumpkin, he may have violated every rule ever written by mankind but he didn't invade this country. We invaded his country.

Spare the rod spoil the child? Hmmmm. I dont see how beating the crap out of a child teaches him a lesson (other than to hate the one beating him). Doesnt take a lot of brains to use physical force. It does take brains to reason, negotiate and resolve differences.

I think thats the difference between me and the rest of you barbarians. Lets resolve it and use our intelligence to work out a non-violent solution. Under your reasoning SSD, you must believe the Japanese were justified in the attack on Pearl Harbor.

See, they perceived the US as a threat. They attempted to diplomatically resolve the problem but not to their satisfaction. How is our unprecedented attack on a country that hadnt attacked us any different than 1941?

Yeah dogs, patriotism sucks. By the way, SSD, I do have a son and would encourage him to room with Dr. Stangelove (well maybe not) if called to become an invader. No justification for this invasion.

Remember as that great lady, and hopefully future president once said, "...we live in a village." Now who can argue with that.

Ed

 

[ssd]

Eddie:
Thanks for the bashing. I refrained in my earlier post to keep a modicum of decorum. Interesting, as one can no longer argue effectively on pure facts and solid resoning, the (losing) debater will resort to cheap name calling.

I never said "to beat the crap out of a child". Those are your words. Sometimes will needs to be enforced, not beaten into.

Japan may have perceived us as a threat. However, we were not under 17 different articles of a world-governing body telling us to disarm.

Sure, the Supreme Court has had its fair share of conservatives. What about all the Appeals Courts?

Did intelligent non-violent reasoning, err, appeasement, keep North Korea from breaking their nuclear treaty?

And Eddie - I don't doubt for a minute you'd send your son to Canada. The politics there are more to your liking and the weak in this country have always looked to the strong for protection. Let someone else's kid fight and perhaps die to provide the sweet blanket of freedom under which we all sleep at night. Hell, we don't want any of the responsibilities that come with living in the US, we just want all the great government programs and the lax legal codes! SUE! SUE! SUE!

Nice talking with you Eddie.

 

[Turfgrass]

SADDAM AND AL QAEDA

SADDAM AND AL QAEDA

Odd. Late last week there were stories on the Internet about revelations in a leaked Senate Intelligence Committee memo about links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. The article appeared in The Weekly Standard

As The Weekly Standard says, the evidence is detailed, conclusive and corroborated by multiple sources. There's new information in the report, and some information that has been around for a while. The picture is clear though. There was an ongoing connection between Hussein and bin Laden, the two were cooperating in their mutual goal of bringing devastation to the United States.

Maybe I can understand why much of the media is giving this story scant attention. If you've poured so much energy into saying that Bush lied when he said that Iraq was a hotbed of terrorist activity, how, then, can you promote the news stories which show that Bush wasn't lying? If you have been making the false charge that Bush said that Saddam was a part of the 9/11 attack, how can you then present evidence that this statement might have been true if, in fact, Bush had ever uttered it?

Americans are settling into the comfort of complacency yet again. It's been over two years since those 3,000 people died in New York. The average American is more concerned about who's going to get kicked off the island next, or the record of his favorite football team, than he is about a continued threat of terrorist activity against his country. Bush has gathered many of the world's terrorists in the Middle East for a battle. Perhaps Americans aren't able to put their hearts into this fight unless it takes place on our soil. Their complacency could lead to just such a result.

 

[ocelot]

Eddie, Great points about Republicans and especially Cheney. This guy is from the slimiest corner of the slimy Republican Party...

HOWEVER, I believe we must show no mercy in the Terror War and I support using our muscle to slaughter these baby killing camel humping bastards WHEREEVER they hide. I believe in the aggressive strategy of the Bush Admin but also believe they are needlessly exposing our troops in Iraq. We should withdraw from the cities as much as possible into fortified camps off limits to locals. How are our convoys constantly being ambushed? Seems like some tactical adjustments need to be made but I'm not there so maybe they are doing the best they can. I AM NOT in favor of rebuilding Iraq. We should have just kicked them militarily and MADE SURE we got Saddam and then left the remnants to the UN. That's right...let the Arab-loving French take care of the cleanup. Or better yet, the Iraqis themselves take responsibility for their own freedom. We should be concentrating more on getting Butthole than administering Iraq. My opinion anyway.

Their are crazy people out there that hate us...and even perhaps for good reason. I agree that we need to keep our garbage culture to ourselves...I won't even allow my 15 and 17 yr old teenagers to watch any of the so-called TV-14 crap its so trashy.

But when these freaks start KILLING Americans then its "Game On Baby" and its time to show them who their Daddy is.

Great forum guys...Have a great weekend all!

 

[JT]

#1) Just because California elected Arnie Gov. doesn't mean the state all of the sudden is making a huge shift to the right. When you see the California Senate become republican then you can spout of on that. By the way, repealing that car tax was VERY VERY DUMB. Let's just pass the burden onto cities and counties and make them unable to meet the public's needs. Unless he can make the Indians start paying taxes from gambling (Which I do agree with)
#2) If striking the terrorists hard really worked in stopping terrorism then why in the hell is Israel still being bombed. Pretzel logic. Pressure Israel into peace with Palenstine, withdraw from Iraq and Saudi Arabia and I personally would feel safer then I do now. The funny thing about people talking about democracy in Iraq is that if a really true fair election was held Iraq would end up being a Muslim country which we don't want either. We threw out the secular one, as bad as it was. Plus if you think Chalabi is a viable leader, then you should put down the pipe. Peace...

 

[Wheelz]

Eddie

You are mistaken with Japan -

Under the assumption of peace - Japan continued false discussions with the US while planning a full scale attack. This sounds very familiar!

The US has tried dealing with "non-violence" solutions and have been burned in the past. Why wait to see if this happens again (like 911) - why don't you play middle man and try to work out a sttlement with these bastards!


Typical Liberal stand - wait and see attitude. Liberals have a scary bark , but no bite. Reminds me of a bully who would talk all this stuff and then get his ass kicked when called out!

The problem with the US is not terrorist - it's the Liberals in the US who take no stand, never stand up for the protection of the US. However, will protest any "stupid" cause.

If you don't like the US policies - then I'll give you a First Class ticket for you and your family to France or Canada.

Go join Peter Jennings!

As Toby Keith would say "we'll put a boot in your ass that's the American way"

Holy Land my ass!

 

[Mjolnir]

why is it that people say bush lied about wmd when clinton, gore and just about every other liberal were at one time saying that he had them. what he just suddenly destroyed them and wanted to give up his presidency and live moving every day.:nono: :moon:

 

[Eddie Haskell]

SSD:

Not bashing, just emphatic. By the way, my name calling is not cheap. Obviously, you believe in force to I think as you said exercise will. I don't. Dont you get tired of being the bully on the block. Or are you that insecure that you cannot see and admit that this country and its economic globalization policies ( which happen to favor the puppet-president, his party and the minion dolts that buy into this propaganda) are not wanted by many others, especially in lesser developed countries?

Appeals courts you ask? Well I don't know all the judges nor do we have enough bandwith to name them but, I believe you will find with the possible exception of the Ninth Circuit, that the federal circuit courts are very conservative. Your calling the courts liberal is the same old mantra you neo-nazis use when you refer to the media as liberal. Once again the best offense is a defense.

Not to worry, Bushie boy has guaranteed that you and your ilk will continue to control the media with his recent signing of the telecomunications bill into law. Now Clear Channel and the rest of corporate radio can own it all while he continues to try and cut funding for public radio. Thats right, we dont want public radio which is not governed by corporate america. We want the rich (Republicans) to continue to buy elections and control the thinking of the masses.

Once a great country is rapidly heading down the shitter. Thanks to your buddies. Yep, Little Eddie in Canada. Nice babes in Toronto. Better there and alive then in some desert fighting for what............................. elimination of those weapons of mass destruction..................... remember that was the reason we killed all those people and are having US soldiers killed. It is apparent that most of you are to young to remember Viet Nam. Very apparent.

Reread your post. You are scary. The weak depending on the strong? You sound like the bully in 6th grade beating people at recess. Everyone was afraid of this guy. But, unfortunately for him, we all grew up. The only sweet blanket of freedom we all sleep under is guaranteed by guys like me. Not goose-steppin, brain washed, flag waving minions like you. You are what I am protecting this country against.

By the way, tell me all about our illustrious leaders sacrifices he made in Viet Nam. Hippocrits, all you are are a bunch of hippocrits.

Turfgrass, The Weekly Standard. And someone pointed out that I get the news I want to hear. Is William F. Buckley still the editor of that most middle of the road rag. Puhleese. Ocelot, keep up the fight for freedom against corporate terrorism. Disagree on the killing machine for the reasons stated above. JT excellent point about Israel. I guess there fighting terrorism for the last 50 years really put a stop to the terrorists. Lets vacation in Tel Aviv. Not!!!

Wheelz you are wrong. Japan perceived the US military buildup in the Pacific as a direct threat against the soverignty of Japan. They launched a pre-emptive strike against what they believed to be a threat from the US. Merely because we told a greatly inferior opponent that we were coming when Japan attacked an equal or stronger adversary with surprise does not change the reason for their attack. You are blowing smoke.

What none of you realize is that until we correct the wrongs of this country and have a modicum of freedom, terrorism will exist. That is the only resolution of this huge problem. You want to give me a first class ticket to Canada or France. Maybe. Its too bad though because I can't give you a first class ticket to where you would feel at home. You see, Nazi Germany was defeated in 1945. Sir, you are the decay of western civilization.

Speaking of first class, I'd love to continue your initial foray into the world of rationale and intelligent thought but, I'm off to San Diego with a 12:30 tee time at Torrey Pines.

Love ya,
Eddie

 

[Wheelz]

Wow!

Freedom fighter you are Eddie.

Must be nice living under the very freedom that those sacrificing their lives provide for you and yours.

Running late my friend - just finished my round at "my country club" thanks to this wonderful country - have fun on that "dog track" - -

Typical Liberal - "until we correct the wrongs of this country"

Every Liberal wants to correct the wrongs - well my friend if this was the case we would never move forward in life, just keep back tracking to correct everyone's mistakes.

I guess from everyone's response your a lawyer - fighter for justice or the almighty dollar - hypocrite - ambuance chasing - typical lawyer making a living off everyone's misfortune.