New Age Limits for the Armed Services

Palehose

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Master Capper said:
Dude rent Private Ryan or another World War movie and maybe you will get your facts straight on World War 2

Thats your problem right there ! You cant get World War 2 facts from movies like that ! And half the problem is the way America teaches its history . What part of WWII starting in 1939 and America not showing up in Europe till 1944 to fight a defeated German army dont you get ? because I have about 3000 books your gonna need to read to get it out of your head that we saved Europe from Hitler ...we cleaned up after no doubt but the damage had been done and millions had already died .
 

kosar

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Thanks palehose. Although most of what you write is way off-base, :) I can see that you're going to be a good contributor(not that you really care about my opinion on that-lol). At least you try to explain your positions instead of the usual hit and run tactics.


And I find it beyond bizarre to say giving a country a shot at democracy something me and you take for granted a lesser cause than liberating countries that didnt have the will to defend themselves in the 1st place .

When did it become our responsibility to 'give them a shot at democracy?' And when did you start caring about that?


Your right it was cotton candy you win !

I guess it just amazes me that people still argue about this when every report done since we invaded concluded that they had no program since 1991. No evidence of anything. None. Nada. Satellite photos of trucks is not enough evidence to invade and occupy.


No I dont support countries that pour millions of dollars in direct support of terror against the west.
But , we cannot take them on all at once ....patience young padawan patience !

Do you think that maybe we should have gone after a country that actually had something to do with terror against the west?

Tell that to the mothers of those dead Kurdish Children that the wonderous UN let die while Swartzkoff had to witness in dismay because the UN failed once agian !

The number dead from that attack has been cited as 3,000-9,000. While it's obviously still horrible, it's a long way from the 200,000 that you threw out there.

Your saying that bribery in the UN is ok even if its undermining the purpose and existance of the UN ?

No, it's not 'ok,' but it has no place in any debate on the Iraq invasion.

Well than show some respect for them and at least act like their doing something they should be proud of even if you dont agree .

Gimme a break, dude. Comments like that are quite irritating. I'm very proud of everything they do. It's the old 'against the war/unpatriotic' bullshit. While you see no problem with us being over there for 15 more years, just to try to cram a democracy down some countries throat, I would prefer to see the troops come back relatively shortly. We can't sustain this level of involvement for many more years.


I believe the end result will be less Islamic terrorism worldwide and have posted why earlier in this thread....the cost pfft.... pale in comparison to what 9/11 cost the US and the whole world for that matter .

I'm not quite sure why you would possibly think that there will be less terrorism, but I appreciate the answer.

As far as the costs go, i'm glad you can be so flippant when it comes to soldiers lives. In about another year and a half, we will have lost as many soldiers as people that died on 9/11. Not to mention the 20,000+ wounded by that time.

But at least we gave a country a 'shot' at democracy, huh?


US and Brit forces get pushed out by the Liberal Media and appeasment folk, we leave way too early and civil war sets in resulting in an Islamic state .
Everybody dies for nothing !

Ahhhh yes, if we leave a mess there it will be the medias fault. Might as well get the excuses lined up now. And of course those evil 'appeasement folks,' who obviously came up with this great plan.


and in 30 years you watch the History channel documentory on one of America's greatest presidents "GWB"

Had to pause there for a 10 minute laughing jag.

Would you rather live under a Democracy or a Evil Dictatorship ? Would rather have your priest make the laws in your land or would you rather vote in a Non - secular leader to represent your community ?

You make it sound so cut and dry. Democracy or evil dictatorship, huh? How about a theocracy. Ya know, like that American loving Iran? But don't worry, it'll take 3 or 4 years of civil war after we leave to get to that point.
 

kosar

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Palehose said:
Sorry about the confusing reply ...I will need to work on my quoting skills .

It's ok. You're not putting the backslash before the word 'quote' at the end of the quote. If that makes any sense.
 

bjfinste

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kosar said:
Bj, you must have missed it, but he explained it already. Britain takes it on the chin because they don't call a spade a spade. But we get spared because we call that spade exactly what it is, a spade! :shrug:

You're right, I did miss that. Thanks for pointing it out. I guess I'm a moron for even making my post, as I should've known that's exactly why the British are "taking it on the chin."
 

smurphy

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hey, i just realized if you rearrange bjfinste letters it spells "finest bj". ....are you clinton?

hope i dont get you in trouble with dtb.
 

djv

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What excuse should be used for Turkey and Egypt. They stick there Chin out. WWII I wrote a paper on that war in by Senior year of H S. Only 46 years ago. Dam that was long time ago. I could talk for hours on it but wont bore anyone. My family lost many in that one.
 

bjfinste

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smurphy said:
hey, i just realized if you rearrange bjfinste letters it spells "finest bj". ....are you clinton?

hope i dont get you in trouble with dtb.

He's probably gonna put me on ignore now that you pointed that out.
 

Palehose

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Kosar said : "When did it become our responsibility to 'give them a shot at democracy?' And when did you start caring about that?"

About the same time it became America's responsibility to send my uncles across the big pond to die for nothing more than returning Democracy to France and other country's that failed to defend the democracy they once had and lost because they didn't have the will power to defend themselves. I started taking notice of the complete BS going on in the Mid- East just as we went in to liberate Kuwait.

Kosar said :"I guess it just amazes me that people still argue about this when every report done since we invaded concluded that they had no program since 1991. No evidence of anything. None. Nada. Satellite photos of trucks is not enough evidence to invade and occupy."

I guess it amazes me that people would be dense enough to believe that a man that had them in the past , used them in the past and was obviously playing games with inspections , while breaking numerous UN resolutions would be given the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't have them or use them in the future.
sorry but is the same stupidity that killed 11 mill or more in WWII.
Give me the time Saddam had to get things out of the country and I could make America look like they haven't been developing WMD's either .


Kosar said : "I'm not quite sure why you would possibly think that there will be less terrorism, but I appreciate the answer."

There will be less terrorism because the people that embrace democracy wont tolerate some cleric invoking the laws of Sharia (sp) on their proud country and they will begin to help stamp out radical Islam thats why I feel the quicker we can get people to embrace Democracy in the Mid East the better .

Kosar said : "As far as the costs go, i'm glad you can be so flippant when it comes to soldiers lives. In about another year and a half, we will have lost as many soldiers as people that died on 9/11. Not to mention the 20,000+ wounded by that time."

War is hell and its very sad ...our troops are doing a very honorable , courageous , and costly deed no doubt ! Were is your outrage that between Chicago and Detroit alone there has been more deaths by violent crime since Iraqi Freedom began and its not even close and that is just from 2 US cities and the death's are not honorable or courageous ?

Kosar said :"But at least we gave a country a 'shot' at democracy, huh?"

Guess we should be happy that France (for Once ) felt we deserved a shot at Democracy when we declared independence from England aye ? Or that America felt that a good portion of Europe should get another shot at the end of WWII as I have posted or it would have taken them a lot longer to get that shot .

Kosar said : "Ahhhh yes, if we leave a mess there it will be the medias fault. Might as well get the excuses lined up now. And of course those evil 'appeasement folks,' who obviously came up with this great plan. "

Reality has it that the Media can have an effect on a nations will power to fight . This has been seen time and again throughout history . It is real , it is logical that it works and I am sorry that you cant see something that obvious .

Kosar said : "Had to pause there for a 10 minute laughing jag."

Jag yourself as much as you please .... If GWB pulls this off and can start the change from Non - Secular Muslim state (a Theocracy) to Democracy in the Mid - East he will be forever looked at in history as a Great US president. Personally I think he is a decent man but way too Liberal on domestic policy to get my vote as a great Pres. Regardless of what either of us feel about GWB it wont change how he will be looked at in the future if he can pull this off .

Kosar said: "You make it sound so cut and dry. Democracy or evil dictatorship, huh? How about a theocracy. Ya know, like that American loving Iran? But don't worry, it'll take 3 or 4 years of civil war after we leave to get to that point."

Bwahahahaha ROFL ! sure you don't want to reread ....both sentences this time ? Or do you not understand that a Non secular Muslim state is a Theocracy ???
 

djv

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I''m not sure how Iraq will ever work as a democracy. If there sick of the daily death. You would think they would have said enough is enough more then a year ago. There should be 100000's demonstrating everyday against the insurgents and seeking them out and killing them anyway they can. But they don't. They leave it to us. They seem to buy this B S if you have elections and a Constitution. All will get better. There part of the 2000 year culture of killing. Some day we may find out these countries just don't give a chit about us being there. So how long do we waist our time and money. And we know most insurgents come from Saudi. Funny there the ones that did 9/11. I don't understand this get out of jail free we give Saudi. So we got these folks In D C that had to save us by invading Iraq. But still hold hands with the Saudis. Talk about a good case for impeachment.
 

Palehose

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djv said:
I''m not sure how Iraq will ever work as a democracy. If there sick of the daily death. You would think they would have said enough is enough more then a year ago. There should be 100000's demonstrating everyday against the insurgents and seeking them out and killing them anyway they can. But they don't. They leave it to us. They seem to buy this B S if you have elections and a Constitution. All will get better. There part of the 2000 year culture of killing. Some day we may find out these countries just don't give a chit about us being there. So how long do we waist our time and money. And we know most insurgents come from Saudi. Funny there the ones that did 9/11. I don't understand this get out of jail free we give Saudi. So we got these folks In D C that had to save us by invading Iraq. But still hold hands with the Saudis. Talk about a good case for impeachment.

I agree on Saudi , it will eventually have to be addressed and it will be ugly . As far as the demonstrations go ......thats not going to happen untill the fear goes away . Do keep in mind though something my famillies US Ranger has said to me and that is The Iraqi people have been a hugh help in catching or killing Insurgents , every one of the over 200 missions he has been in from Afgan to Iraq was started by leads from civilians .
 

kosar

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Palehose said:
Kosar said: "You make it sound so cut and dry. Democracy or evil dictatorship, huh? How about a theocracy. Ya know, like that American loving Iran? But don't worry, it'll take 3 or 4 years of civil war after we leave to get to that point."

Bwahahahaha ROFL ! sure you don't want to reread ....both sentences this time ? Or do you not understand that a Non secular Muslim state is a Theocracy ???

Not really sure what's so funny. Yes, I understand what a theocracy is. You made it sound as if we only had two choices: an 'evil dictatorship' or a democracy. The evil dictatorship that you refer to was a secular regime. You left out the third option, even though it's the most likely to develop. An Iran-like theocracy.

As for the rest, we're just going around in circles. However, I think that you vastly overstimate the likelyhood that the regular citizens will 'stamp out' radical Islam. You still don't get it- a lasting, peaceful democracy is not possible in the ME no matter how many bodies and dollars we throw at it.


There will be less terrorism because the people that embrace democracy wont tolerate some cleric invoking the laws of Sharia (sp) on their proud country and they will begin to help stamp out radical Islam thats why I feel the quicker we can get people to embrace Democracy in the Mid East the better .
 

Palehose

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My Original Post :
Would you rather live under a Democracy or a Evil Dictatorship ? Would you rather have your priest make the laws in your land or would you rather vote in a Non - secular leader to represent your community ?

Kosar original reply : "You make it sound so cut and dry. Democracy or evil dictatorship, huh? How about a theocracy. Ya know, like that American loving Iran? But don't worry, it'll take 3 or 4 years of civil war after we leave to get to that point."

I'm laughing because there are 3 forms of government I was referring to in my original post :

Democracy , Dictatorship and a Theocracy , yet you didnt pick up on my reference to a Democracy Vrs a Theocracy , which is in my 2nd sentence which in turn makes your reply look like you don't know what a Theocracy even is . My 1st sentence: "Would you rather live under a Democracy or a Evil Dictatorship ?" asks you if you would rather live in a Democracy or a Dictatorship my 2nd sentence: " Would rather have your priest make the laws in your land or would you rather vote in a Non - secular leader to represent your community ?"
is asking you if you would rather live in a Democracy or a Theocracy Understand now ? :mj07:
 

kosar

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No, still don't get it. The priest/non-secular bit made no sense when you originally posted it and I ignored it. It was a non-sequitur.

But besides all that, let's say that somebody really did not understand what a theocracy was. Why would you hysterically laugh about that? It doesn't really seem that funny. For instance, I haven't even so much as chuckled while reading your posts and they're some of the most misinformed that I have ever read. :rolleyes:
 

Palehose

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Your are correct I meant to say Secular ..so I will have to give ya a pass on that one though you should have picked up on it .
 

kosar

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Palehose said:
Your are correct I meant to say Secular ..so I will have to give ya a pass on that one though you should have picked up on it .

I obviously did pick up on it and that's why I said you only gave two choices. It's just that when I see a mistake I don't feel the need to ROFL or BWAAAAAAAAA or :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

It's all good.
 

kosar

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Palehose said:
Your are correct I meant to say Secular ..so I will have to give ya a pass on that one though you should have picked up on it .

Give *me* a pass? That's nice considering you're the one who made the mistake. Are you sure you know what 'non-secular' means? Maybe you think it means 'non-religious' or something? :shrug:
 

Palehose

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kosar said:
Give *me* a pass? That's nice considering you're the one who made the mistake. Are you sure you know what 'non-secular' means? Maybe you think it means 'non-religious' or something? :shrug:

I can only say this if you made the same mistake I would have easily understood the point you were trying to make . See as soon as you seen "Vote in " which signifies the Democracy part you should know I meant ? Unless of course you can name a non -secular Democracy which in all fairness I can think of 1 that may meet that definition . :rolleyes:
 
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kosar

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I understood the point, but if that was the point then you only gave two choices like i've been saying all along. I'm getting dizzy.
 

Palehose

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I'm getting dizzy.

LOL ! More info I already knew ;)

Ya the 2 choices you came up with were a Democracy or a Dictatorship yet if you truley understood my point as you claim.... you would have said Democracy or Theocracy

Out of all the points I have brought up and you have failed to respond to can I get your take on this one ??????

War is hell and its very sad ...our troops are doing a very honorable , courageous , and costly deed no doubt ! Were is your outrage that between Chicago and Detroit alone there has been more deaths by violent crime since Iraqi Freedom began and its not even close and that is just from 2 US cities and the death's are not honorable or courageous ?
 

kosar

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Palehose said:
Ya the 2 choices you came up with were a Democracy or a Dictatorship yet if you truley understood my point as you claim.... you would have said Democracy or Theocracy

Out of all the points I have brought up and you have failed to respond to can I get your take on this one ??????

War is hell and its very sad ...our troops are doing a very honorable , courageous , and costly deed no doubt ! Were is your outrage that between Chicago and Detroit alone there has been more deaths by violent crime since Iraqi Freedom began and its not even close and that is just from 2 US cities and the death's are not honorable or courageous ?

I'm done with the 'choices' thing. Christ.

As far as not responding to points, it's because we've gone over almost all of that verbatim the last few days. Like I said, going in circles.

As far as the specific one you mention? It's a horrible analogy that has been thrown out there a million times. Along with the 'so you don't care about all the car accident deaths?' Or the 'more people die every hour from cancer than in 2 yrs in Iraq.' It's a red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with invading countries.

It's used to marginalize the deaths and maimings in Iraq and it's just ridiculous.
 
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