New Age Limits for the Armed Services

[kosar]

Your kidding right? How many of these fanatics that were rampaging throughout the world and attacking the US came from Iraq? ZERO is the correct answer!

Yes, that's the correct answer. That USED TO BE one of the few countries in the ME that wasn't run by insanely religious freaks. I guess i'll put the obligatory 'Saddam was a bad man' disclaimer in there, but overall, for OUR interests and safety, he was a better option than the Mullahs in Iran, the 'prince' in Saudi Arabia...etc..etc..

That country USED TO BE somewhat of a balance in a region festering with fundamentalists. Now it will just become another one.

And Wayne, if you think Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are on board, I have a bridge to sell ya.

 

[Master Capper]

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are hardly on board the stop terror train, as these countries will do the bare minimum to keep the heat of off them. Now if you were stating which countries still finance and launder funds for terrorist then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would be correct.

 

[TonyTT]

Now if you were stating which countries still finance and launder funds for terrorist then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would be correct.

:clap:
TT

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are hardly on board the stop terror train, as these countries will do the bare minimum to keep the heat of off them. Now if you were stating which countries still finance and launder funds for terrorist then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would be correct.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How about this I list the terrorist captured and killed by Pakistan and Saudi since our invasion of Afgan and Iraq and you list the ones prior. I know--you'll pass.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your kidding right? How many of these fanatics that were rampaging throughout the world and attacking the US came from Iraq? ZERO is the correct answer--

Then I must assume every country besides Saudi is off limits--
P.S. you might want to ask our pilots that were fired on in free fly zone that question also.

Makes about much sense as the left wanting to ban prayer in schools and prohibit children from taking bibles to same--yet whine like bansees that we need to protect terrorist prisonors religious rights and don't dare touch their koran.--Accuse me but I don't follow the logic.

 

[shamrock]

ahhh the President of Pakistan General M, was on NIGHTLINE, just the other night, and openly admitted he would NOT capture OBL.

 

[Master Capper]

Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia should be able to capture the most terrorists since they harbor and fund the vast majority of terrorists activities. While your listing the terrorists captured feel free to list what countries all of the terrorists that have staged attacks against England or the United States come from. Musharraf will surely hand over a token so-called terrorists to appease the Bush administration in order to gain additional weapons. The poverty level in Pakistan has swelled since Mursharraf has taken power as nearly 45% of the population lives under the poverty level, but at the same time Pakistan is 10th in the world in the dollars spent per year on weapons. Since we have now had to backtrack on why we attacked Iraq to the point of removing a evil man whom suppressed his people then we better head over to Saudi soon since they are ranked dead last in freedoms to their people and a solid dead last in the democratic institutional ratings beating such bastilles of freedom and rights as North Korea and Syria.



Then I must assume every country besides Saudi is off limits--
P.S. you might want to ask our pilots that were fired on in free fly zone that question also.

Makes about much sense as the left wanting to ban prayer in schools and prohibit children from taking bibles to same--yet whine like bansees that we need to protect terrorist prisonors religious rights and don't dare touch their koran.--Accuse me but I don't follow the logic.



Firing on our pilots is quite a broad stretch if your implying thats terrorism! Nope in my book all countries that fund or launder funds, provide training grounds for terrorists would be in line for retributions and currently this would include Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon and Pakistan. This would not include Iraq nor Iran since no terrorists can be traced from there nor can it be directly linked that they have provided funding as Saudi Arabia has done. Yes I know Iran is trying to devolop nuc power, but so are Saudi Arabia and Egypt and just like Iran they refuse to allow weapons inspectors from the atomic commission into their countries to monitor the activity. Why most conservative people always steer the debates into either religion in school or the flag (patriotism)? What does any of this have to do with terrorism. I could care less if there is prayer in school if it means that much to someone say a silent prayer before school, or if you just cant stand it then send your kids to a religious school and they can pray all day. If we had prayer in school what prayer would be deemed acceptable since we have hundreds of different religions?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"The poverty level in Pakistan has swelled since Mursharraf has taken power as nearly 45% of the population lives under the poverty level, but at the same time Pakistan is 10th in the world in the dollars spent per year on weapons. Since we have now had to backtrack on why we attacked Iraq to the point of removing a evil man whom suppressed his people then we better head over to Saudi soon since they are ranked dead last in freedoms to their people and a solid dead last in the democratic institutional ratings beating such bastilles of freedom and rights as North Korea and Syria."

You really need to link your sources--after intial check on 1st didn't waste my time with the rest---
http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Population_Below_Poverty_Line_aall.htm

and yep never any terrorist activity under Saddam--however he upped the anti in 1992 $10,000 to $25,000 for family of suicide bombers--opps I forgot the left wing papers do not like to refer to suicide bombers as terrorist so for the PC crowd I guess that might be correct.

 

[Master Capper]

Here's your link for just where the Suadi's rate on Democracy which is dead last http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/dem_dem_ins_rat

I retract the figure of poverty rate that was stated earlier as the website I got the number from is questionable once I reread the information, but since he has taken power the poverty rate has increased under his leadership. I am getting numbers slightly higher than the link you listed at around 37% which is still terrible when you consider the amount of funds they are spending on arms.


Who cares what he offered the fact of the matter was that the no terrorist came from Iraq nor Iran, and $10,000 or $25,000 dollars is peanuts when you consider the amount of funds that the Saudi's have funneled to terrorists but yet you fail to hold them responsible for their involvement. While we all can agree that Saddam treated his people terrible and was a brutal dictator, but why is it acceptable for Saudi Arabia to have one of the worst records for human rights in the world and we turn our backs to this? The only reasons that Saudi Arabia is not held to the same litmus test as Iraq or Iran is due to the amount of funds they have invested in the US and the ties that the Saudi's have to Bush and Cheney.

 

[djv]

Ya every time I see Bush holding hands with one of the so called princes from Saudi. I know us Americans are about to get it in the ass again at the pumps. Mr Bush you want to make them even more are buddies. How about they pay for the rebuilding of the twin towers. It was there boys that blew it up.

 

[Palehose]

Palehose, welcome to the forum.

Yes, this should be 'really good.'

I'll take it easy and assume that you're 18 years old or maybe younger.

Well...your a bit off . I am a 40 year old man married with children . Who never had the pleasure of meeting my fathers 2 eldest brothers one died in Normandy one died 12 years after the war when I was 2 due to complications from the lung he lost in Normandy 12 years earlier .

D-Day was an event to push Germany out of France and basically save Europe. We did not invade Germany, my man. We landed in France to save their asses.

America did more to save Europe during the Battle of Britain with logistical support than D- day a Battle against a defeated Germany ever did ! Unfortunatly most Americans somehow believe we were the big heros in WW2 when in reality it was the Brits and the Russians being able repel Nazi Germany because they were smart enough to know they were going to have to defend their countries . Fact ! 9 of 10 German soldiers died from Russian Bullets. Fact If the Brits with their awesome Spitfires and great pilots and US support didnt stop the invasion on Great Briton in 1936 -1937 the war was over hands down and Germany would have been victorious... Radar also played a great part in this .

D day was an event that took place at the end of the war with the Germans . It was over! all Germany could do was sit back and wait for everybody to come and take their country's back.

France didnt even deserve a country ! Their liberal mindset and appeasment crowd sat and watched Hitler break one treaty after another for 12 years. Then after Hitler was so powerfull they couldnt do much about it , France still wasent done being stupid . The Conservatives in france wanted to bring the Magnot (sp ?) line around their border with Belgium but no ! The Liberal appeasment crowd struck again and pointed out the Germany had a pact with Holland and Belgium and he said he wouldnt take their countries so no reason to do that you stupid Conservatives .....Doh ! Guess what Hitler lied ! In a 7 day offensive that rolled through Holland and than Belgium he was standing in Paris laughing his as off saying to himself " can they really be this stupid ?" Guess what Kosar when we landed in Normandy it was now part of Nazi Germany ...a Soviergn nation that just defeated a bunch of morons that lost their country .

I'll keep this short, but comparisons of the Iraqi war to WW2 are beyond ridiculous.
Keep it as short as you want but if you think I am going to believe that giving a country a shot at democracy ...a chance to get out from under a ruthless dictator's grip and have an oppourtunity for the people to vote in their own leaders is somehow less honorable or neccessary than liberating a country that was too stupid to protect its self and could see it comming for 10 to 15 years we are going to need a long talk not a short one .

Hitler was rampaging across Europe and Iraq was doing absolutely nothing.
Hitler was done with his rampage through Europe . Iraq was gasing their own people to the tune of 200,000 dead innocents , Iraq was breaking UN resolutions for over 10 years (hmm sounds like someone else we know ) Iraq was playing games with inspections ..... gee I suppose all those covered trucks they showed the world at the UN via satalite pictures leaving inspection sites just hours and sometime mere minutes before inspections had cotton candy in them aye ? We dont even need to mention the $ 20,000 he paid out to the familly's of suicide bombers . Nor do we have to mention the Bribery he used on france and Germany to undermind any possible reason for the UN to even exist IE : The Food for Oil program .

Come on, guy. Don't mimic some of these guys here who compare this crap to WW2 and Korea. (who by the way have never shown even the simplest of examples of how they are similar)

I suggest that you dont take for granted what our troops are doing for us today in Iraq. It's honorable, its important , their doing a great job , its going to make the world a better place , and by every stretch of the means its every bit as important a cause if not more so than the cause I lost 2 uncles to.

 

[djv]

Palehose you don't believe invading Iraq will make the world a better place, Do you? How So?

 

[Palehose]

Yes I do ! By overthrowing leadership in Afganistan we went on the offensive against Islamic Terrorism hit it at its roots were they train and instill their hate agaisnt the west.

By attacking Iraq we made a statement to the Mid - East that we are willing to come in and overthrow a evil regime be it a dictator or a radical Islamic fundamentalist and change it to what radical Islam fears most .....A Democratic Capitalist society .
Notice all the terrorism in the US of late ? Notta ! Because we are fighting them on their turf ! Because we took all their money via frozen bank accounts , and because they know we will be tough on terrorism like we have been . In the mean time the brits are taking it on their chin ...why ? Because they wont even call the bombers Islamic terrorist thats just not PC ...Doh! Untill they call a spade a spade it will continue ..... and by all means I am not saying the US is safe but right now we are putting pressure on them on so many fronts they probably arent sure they want to ....and if they do its not as easy for them to get organized .

 

[kosar]

Thanks for the post, palehose. You definitely have an 'interesting' mindset.

The war was not anywhere near over when we invaded Normandy. Of course the Soviets were huge in Hitlers defeat but it's ridiculous to marginalize D-Day as you have.

I also find it extremely odd that since Germany occupied France, that you consider our landing at Normandy an invasion of Germany. Huh?

I guess we'll just agree to disagree, but I think it's beyond bizarre to call this Iraq 'cause' equal to WW2.

You listed all of the default justifications for this invasion. That just doesn't work.

You speak of 'covered trucks?' Yes, there were trucks. I guess they managed to get every last speck out of the country with none of it turning up anywhere else. How likely is that?

More importantly, please answer me this: Who cares even if he *did* have them? Under your scenario, those mountains of WMD are floating around in another country. Does that make you feel safer?

He paid suicide bombers familes. Sure. Maybe that is supporting terror against Israel in sort of a 'tail wagging the dog' sort of way, but apparently you have no problem with the countries that pour millions of dollars in direct support of terror against the west.

They didn't gas 200,000 people. Another mischaracterization.

I can't believe you didn't mention that decrepit balsa wood airplane that we were shown as evidence of WMD.

Bribery? For one thing, we didn't know about that before the invasion. More importantly, that's not a reason to sacrifice thousands of our young men and women, not to mention the billion a week that we apparently have to throw around for utter nonsense.

I suggest that you dont take for granted what our troops are doing for us today in Iraq. It's honorable, its important , their doing a great job , its going to make the world a better place , and by every stretch of the means its every bit as important a cause if not more so than the cause I lost 2 uncles to.

I don't take what they do for granted and I know damn well that they're doing a great job.

I've asked this several times and it's always been ignored. But you're new, so maybe you can tell me.

Specifically, how has this war benefited the USA, or how do you think it will benefit us in the future? Specifically. Keeping in mind to balance this against the steep costs.

What do you think the chances are of civil war breaking out once we leave?

What do you think the chances are of Iraq becoming a hard-core theocracy in the mold of Iran?

If either of the last two things comes to happen, do you still feel that we left Iraq better than we found it?

 

[kosar]

By attacking Iraq we made a statement to the Mid - East that we are willing to come in and overthrow a evil regime be it a dictator or a radical Islamic fundamentalist and change it to what radical Islam fears most .....A Democratic Capitalist society .

I'm sure you realize that Iraq will never be a 'Democratic Capitalist' society.

Notice all the terrorism in the US of late ? Notta ! Because we are fighting them on their turf !

Utterly ridiculous argument.

 

[bjfinste]

Notice all the terrorism in the US of late ? Notta ! Because we are fighting them on their turf !

If I'm not mistaken, the British are fighting side-by-side with the Americans "on their turf." Certainly didn't stop anything from happening there.

 

[kosar]

If I'm not mistaken, the British are fighting side-by-side with the Americans "on their turf." Certainly didn't stop anything from happening there.

Bj, you must have missed it, but he explained it already. Britain takes it on the chin because they don't call a spade a spade. But we get spared because we call that spade exactly what it is, a spade! :shrug:

In the mean time the brits are taking it on their chin ...why ? Because they wont even call the bombers Islamic terrorist thats just not PC ...Doh! Untill they call a spade a spade it will continue .....

 

[Master Capper]

Dude rent Private Ryan or another World War movie and maybe you will get your facts straight on World War 2

 

[Palehose]

Thanks for the post, palehose. You definitely have an 'interesting' mindset.

The war was not anywhere near over when we invaded Normandy. Of course the Soviets were huge in Hitlers defeat but it's ridiculous to marginalize D-Day as you have.

In the Pacific, no the war wasent over. In Germany it was only a matter of time ...with or without US troops .
Reguardless of American troops landing on D-day the end result would have been the same it just would have taken much longer but inevitable none the less . When we landed the majority of German troops were old men and teenagers , and the few SS troops that did still exist were plagued with the same Old men and teenagers and were spread terribly thin . Dont get me wrong what we did on D-day was the right thing to do just not anymore right or wrong than we are doing in Iraq .

I also find it extremely odd that since Germany occupied France, that you consider our landing at Normandy an invasion of Germany. Huh?

If you want to call a land that had been in possesion of the Germans for several years , with all former leaders either shot or had fled the country "occupied" be my guest . By this point it was Vichy France a pupet state of Germany a Soviergn Nation it was fortifide with millions of tons of concrete defended by German troops and flying the flag of Nazi Germany you cant get anymore German than that ! By your definition of "occupied" Their are no countries just lands occupied by foriegn regimes that concured the land. To me your not a country until you have the capability to defend it and can fly your flag not the flag of the country that just kicked your ass !

I guess we'll just agree to disagree, but I think it's beyond bizarre to call this Iraq 'cause' equal to WW2.

And I find it beyond bizarre to say giving a country a shot at democracy something me and you take for granted a lesser cause than liberating countries that didnt have the will to defend themselves in the 1st place .

You listed all of the default justifications for this invasion. That just doesn't work.

I dont need to Justifie delivering people from an evil dictator his acts justified everything !

You speak of 'covered trucks?' Yes, there were trucks. I guess they managed to get every last speck out of the country with none of it turning up anywhere else. How likely is that?

Your right it was cotton candy you win !

More importantly, please answer me this: Who cares even if he *did* have them? Under your scenario, those mountains of WMD are floating around in another country. Does that make you feel safer?

Good greif !So no use busting drug dealers at gradeschools because someone else will just pick up were they left off ?

He paid suicide bombers familes. Sure. Maybe that is supporting terror against Israel in sort of a 'tail wagging the dog' sort of way, but apparently you have no problem with the countries that pour millions of dollars in direct support of terror against the west.

No I dont support countries that pour millions of dollars in direct support of terror against the west.
But , we cannot take them on all at once ....patience young padawan patience !

They didn't gas 200,000 people. Another mischaracterization.

Tell that to the mothers of those dead Kurdish Children that the wonderous UN let die while Swartzkoff had to witness in dismay because the UN failed once agian !

I can't believe you didn't mention that decrepit balsa wood airplane that we were shown as evidence of WMD.

WMD'S are such a small reason in the big picture I frankly dont care if they had them or not. Unfortunately Bush couldnt go in saying we have to make a statement to radical Islam because the world has gone looney PC .

Bribery? For one thing, we didn't know about that before the invasion. More importantly, that's not a reason to sacrifice thousands of our young men and women, not to mention the billion a week that we apparently have to throw around for utter nonsense.

I know we didnt know it ..thats why I said we can leave that out ... but I do have to ask . Your saying that bribery in the UN is ok even if its undermining the purpose and existance of the UN ? Maybe it should disband and then we will see how many dead young men and children we get in the future ? you do know why the UN exists right ?

I don't take what they do for granted and I know damn well that they're doing a great job.

Well than show some respect for them and at least act like their doing something they should be proud of even if you dont agree .

I've asked this several times and it's always been ignored. But you're new, so maybe you can tell me.

Specifically, how has this war benefited the USA, or how do you think it will benefit us in the future? Specifically. Keeping in mind to balance this against the steep costs.

I believe the end result will be less Islamic terrorism worldwide and have posted why earlier in this thread....the cost pfft.... pale in comparison to what 9/11 cost the US and the whole world for that matter .

What do you think the chances are of civil war breaking out once we leave?

No doubt about it this will be the defining moment as to if this was all worth it or not. Its gonna go one of 2 ways :

US and Brit forces get pushed out by the Liberal Media and appeasment folk, we leave way too early and civil war sets in resulting in an Islamic state .
Everybody dies for nothing !

Or

US ,Brits and Allies stay the course and a long hard one it will be, the country stays a democracy and in 30 years you watch the History channel documentory on one of America's greatest presidents "GWB" for changing the course of Islam . Over that 30 years terror by islamic radicals go's way down ..Iran has a civil war and overthows its radical Islamic rulers for a Democracy and it is forever remembered as a turning point in history ,for the better of course .

[QUOTE=kosar]What do you think the chances are of Iraq becoming a hard-core theocracy in the mold of Iran?

As explained above that depends on wether the Liberal Media supporting and supported by Radical Islam wins or The US and Brits population has any balls left or not

If either of the lao things comes to happen, do you still feel that we left Iraq better than we found it]?

Would you rather live under a Democracy or a Evil Dictatorship ? Would rather have your priest make the laws in your land or would you rather vote in a Non - secular leader to represent your community ? If your asking my Opinion ? ......... Well I go with what my forefathers before me fought so hard for so that I can have the life I enjoy today !

 

[Palehose]

Sorry about the confusing reply ...I will need to work on my quoting skills .

 

[smurphy]

I see the foundation already being laid. Hose sounds like I Weasel clone with his "blame the mnedia" rhetoric. We will leave Iraq too soon and it will be blamed on L-word media instead of on the actual decision makers in DC.

Bush doesn't care about Iraq - only his legacy. He will leave too soon to make his legacy look good in the short run. The right thing to do is stay for decades, but Bush wants his image to look victorious when he finally leaves in office in 3 1/2 years.

BUT - the blame game by his supporters is already in place against the media rather than the elected officials who got us there in the first place.