Wynn shaves dealers? tips

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Controversy swirls around sharing plan



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08/29/2006 - by Ron Fortune

Leave it to Steve Wynn to stir up a controversy that could dramatically alter the way tip income is handled in Nevada casinos.

Last week Wynn announced that tip revenue ? which has made his dealers the highest paid on the Las Vegas Strip ? would be shared with pit bosses and table game supervisors who often earn about half of what dealers take home.

Wynn said the change was to correct the "outrageous" disparity that currently exists between dealers, whose average income is about $100,000 a year, and their supervisors, who earn about $60,000.

Wynn officials estimate that the policy change ? which goes into effect Sept. 1 ? would result in an average $10,000 reduction in wages for dealers, and increase supervisors pay to about $95,000 a year.

Wynn said that he would implement "incentive programs" for dealers to help offset the drop in income. Those would include cash bonuses for customer service, adherence to policy and attendance.

The tip-sharing with middle managers would be a first in Nevada?s major casinos.

The reaction from dealers was predictable ? most who would speak on the subject said the policy was "unfair" and simply a "cheap alternative" to paying higher salaries out of the casinos? bottom line.

Other critics of the policy change said it was "shortsighted" and could hurt the casino?s profitability in the long run.

"You?ve lost the division of labor and management that you need to ensure a high level of quality control and customer service," said a Strip casino supervisor who asked that her name be withheld. "The dealers are driven by tips, thus they are sympathetic to customers? needs, while supervisors are charged with watching out for the house by overseeing the integrity of the game.

"With supervisors sharing in tip revenue, they?re now allied with dealers and ultimately the customers," she said.

A Wynn official said that supervisors sharing in the tip pool doesn?t necessarily mean that they would automatically favor customers in all disputes.

Instead, it could lead to greater customer service, which could actually generate greater tip income.

Some casino supervisors at MGM and Harrah?s properties, which offer no such tip sharing, said they might be inclined to seek a similar position at Wynn Las Vegas if the policy changeover is smooth and works out.

Conversely, some middle managers said they hoped the change was only the beginning of a larger movement that would reduce dealers to salaried employees, and return tip income to the table.

"I hope they eventually do away with tips and pay the dealers a salary, say about $40,000 to $50,000 a year, which is more than fair for what they do," said the casino manager at a North Las Vegas casino. "I think the casinos will benefit by having that extra money ?in play? and will help increase their bottom line."

Some tourists on the Strip were amused by the controversy, but felt little sympathy for the dealers.

"I can?t imagine they make that kind of money, considering they?re mostly just hustlers anyway," said a visitor from Southern California. "I?ve played at casinos outside of Las Vegas, and the dealers are by far nicer, more courteous and generally happier than these dealers. Maybe this will serve as an attitude adjustment for them."
 
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acer69

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I hope they eventually do away with tips and pay the dealers a salary, say about $40,000 to $50,000 a year, which is more than fair for what they do," said the casino manager at a North Las Vegas casino. "I think the casinos will benefit by having that extra money ?in play? and will help increase their bottom line."

Yah O.K.- Good luck finding dealers that will work for $40,000-$50,000. Especially in Las Vegas. I work for a casino in the midwest where the dealers avg. $40,000 a year and our turnover is outrageous.
 

acehistr8

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This has been a growing story now for a couple of weeks. I mean cry me a fawking river.

Wynn dealers dont realize how good they have it. $100k a year for pushing cards? :mj07: I dont mean to be crass, but do they think they'll find sympathy in any city outside of Vegas? They seem to think that they would teach Wynn a lesson by leaving. I know a few guys that deal in Vegas and Wynn is the Holy Grail to them. They each told me there would be 100 people in line for every dealer job that goes unfilled there. BS or not, the dealers there make bank. According to a couple of dealer websites, Wynn dealers average far and away the most tips, even with the new system they'll still have the highest paying jobs in the whole city. Look again, I have friends that deal, but I think we can all admit its not rocket science. Thats not bad money for something like that considering the median income for the American family is still $44k TOTAL.

And theres a big difference in "pay cut" and the change in distribution. Their pay is not getting cut. If the tips that come in go up, they can still make the same $100k. I mean, you're dealing freaking cards for a living, a job you can get with a high school degree (and maybe without). Show me another city where you can make that kind of scratch for doing such a minimum skill job.

I'm glad the supervisors/pit will share in the tips. The pit crew does a lot for the games. They greet you, take your rating card, deal with markers getting printed out, double check the count when you buy in, resolve disputes, double check the count when you are done, rebuy markers, deal with comps or line passes - they have a big affect on the game. I can think of a number of times I wish I could have dropped them some cash. I dont think its unreasonable that the supervisors make more than the people they supervise. I also think it will make the pit crews give a sh1t more about the games they are dealing.

A big part of the story is that they are going to offer chances for dealers to make the money back and take on more responsibility. Maybe the dealers are mad about that. Personally I think more people in this country should have to work in sales or some type of tip/merit based pay environment. I'd never want to see a situation where dealers just knew they had a base coming in of $60k a year and didnt have to give a sh1t for tips. No thanks. Say what you want about Wynn but his business decisions usually pan out for the best.
 
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Keyser Soze

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Yeah being a dealer is all fun and games........Having people slobber all over you, blow smoke directly in your face, cough on you, try to scam you. I guess it's not too bad though considering you have to work every holiday!!!! C'mon, if anyone thinks it's so great, go ahead and do it. I love to hear people say how it's alright that other people have their pay cut for no justifiable reason, yet go and try to tell them that they are now going to share their commisions with the receptionist and teh secretary pool and see what they say. I will tell you waht they will say, "Well that's different!" Of course it's different, now it effects your wallet and your lifestyle. What kind of future do these guys have afer dealing? Exactly, that's why you see these old geyseers still shuffling their way back from the break room every hour and twenty. Maybe the bartenders should split their tips with their supervisors as well. If you want the supervisors to make more money, then pay them more money, it's not like the casinos are losing money........Be careful with whom you side. The next pay cut could be yours, and when you look around for help all these otehr poor bastards are just going to laugh:mj07: :mj07:
 

acehistr8

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The cocktail waitresses I know kick some of their pay to the bartenders and from what I understand there are tips kicked all around the bev side of the house.

I've been through paycuts and layoffs and unemployment inthe past 15 years, whats your point? I'm sure a ton of people on this board have. BFD, are the dealers above dealing with some real world issues? So the dealers have a hard work environment? They may have to go through pay cuts? They have to deal with changing regulations at their workplace? Wah. Welcome to the real world. I work in a target thats a high probability for the next terrorist attack - thats real world. Not some guy blowing smoke on you and someone yelling at you because they cant get a comped buffet. Cry me a river.

Its a job you can make 100K at with virtually no skill whatsover. I guarantee this is all bluster and talk. Not many dealers will leave. They will elave knowing they are qualified to deal somewhere else for less money in a less plush environment with less elite clientelle. The Wynn is the best of the best right now. :violin:
 
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kosar

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Ace,

You sound a little bitter and you say that the Wynn dealer jobs can be had at 100k with 'virtually no skill whatsoever.'

Get out of that 'high terrorist target' that you work in and go west, young man!

Virtually no skill is what they're apparently looking for!
 

acehistr8

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I'm not bitter I'm doing just fine. Defense contracting is a great game right now I have no complaints whatsoever.

I got that figure from the article, those arent my numbers, it said they average $100K.

In your opinion, would you consider dealing cards or roullette a high skilled job? The highest tips they said were dealing baccarat in the high limit room - where the players handle the shoe.
 
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kosar

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I'm not bitter I'm doing just fine. Defense contracting is a great game right now I have no complaints whatsoever.

I got that figure from the article, those arent my numbers, it said they average $100K.

In your opinion, would you consider dealing cards or roullette a high skilled job? The highest tips they said were dealing baccarat in the high limit room - where the players handle the shoe.

I believe they make 100k a year, some of them. My point was about you considering them as having 'virtually no skill whatsoever.'

I guess you can either turn your nose up at them or join them. :shrug:

As far as dealing being a high-skilled job? I guess it depends on ones definition.

Naturally it doesn't compare to 'defense contracting', but I don't begrudge them the fact to bitch about losing at least 10% of their income.

Like someone mentioned (Keyser I think), pay the supervisors more. I understand about the problem with employees making more than the boss, but that's a corporate issue and why would the dealers subsidize the floor any more than they would subsidize the cocktail girls?

IOW, Wynn has come up with a way to give the supervisors and boxmen a raise without a dime coming out of his pocket. Let those dumbass(no skill) dealers pay for their raises.
 

acehistr8

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Kosar I dont begrudge them anything its not an easy thing to go through for sure. I guess theres a difference between working hard and hard work, thats all. Do I think the dealers work long hours, on their feet, for customers who can be crass? Absolutely. Do I think dealing roulette or baccaratt is a graduate level activity? Not really, sorry. Just about every pilot flying has gone through the same thing recently, take a pay cut or get another job. Hasnt every industry in this country gone through the same thing? Does that mean people in easy jobs cant bitch about their work environment - of course not. I think just a realization that we're not talking about guys flipping burgers over a grease pit or tarring roofs for minimum wage all day here.

Lets not make it out to be a trash heap theyre working in though Wynn isnt exactly the Westward Ho or El Cortez. Its not like the particular set of dealers we are talking about are slumming. The Wynn is certainly one of the top 2 or 3 casinos in Las Vegas in terms of class and clientele FWIW
 
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acer69

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Try dealing a full bore heavy action craps game where your dealing to 10 people just on one side with your layout so full you can barely see the green felt and tell me you need virtually no skill, also have scumbags come into your place of work and call you a fukin bitch, fukin a-hole or threaten you every day. Like I said, if it was a bowl of cherries, wouldn't everyone be doing it?
 

davidjg47

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The fact is the DEALERS are the reason Winn is rich. Without DEALERS there would be NO business. It just gets back to plain old GREED..I hope the dealers tell him to F k off. I also hope the new dealers are plain F..k ups.....
 
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dawgball

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I'm with ace on this one. I wouldn't say it's "no-skill", but it certainly is not the toughest gig going either. $100K? That's more than twice the average wage. I had no idea they could make that much.

So now it is $90K. That's still twice as much as the median (if the median posted is accurate).

I can understand their complaining, but we will see who is right/wrong in this discussion when we see how large of a turnover this creates.

I tip dealers, but I don't get it most of the time. There is pressure to tip if you win. What the feck is that? You tip for service not cards. Not all dealers are friendly (probably due to the environment described above by someone who sounds like they do it for a living). But I have rarely witnessed this type of activity. It may go on every day, but it is not the norm from what I have seen. I would say at least 80%+ patrons are at worst "not friendly". There are certainly a percentage that are assholes, but who doesn't deal with assholes in their job.

Not sure why I felt liike chiming in here since this doesn't effect me in the slightest. Just haven't posted in a few days, and felt like typing. ;)
 

Keyser Soze

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When all of the other pay cut positions are mentioned, I am pretty sure those were all jobs with companies that were in financial trouble, and the pay cuts helped keep the company operating.I don't recall a single one of them taking a pay cut and then dolling out the cut to their supervisors......On the cocktail bartender issue, the cocktails tip the bartenders because teh bartenders make their drinks. The bartenders then in turn tip the barbacks since they do the grunt work for them as well. The comparison with the dealers and their supervisors is certainly not apples to apples........
 

SixFive

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dealers are making $100K???? :com: Wonder what that would equate to making where I live when you account for the cost of living? Trailer jokes aside, what is the cost of living in Las Vegas as opposed to Kentucky?
 
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MadJack

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dealers are making $100K???? :com: Wonder what that would equate to making where I live when you account for the cost of living? Trailer jokes aside, what is the cost of living in Las Vegas as opposed to Kentucky?
maybe the dealers at wynn make 100k but try getting a job THERE. damn near impossible. i'll take a guess from asking dealers at different joints and say the average dealer makes less than 40k unless they deal at wynn, bellagio, mirage, etc. one dealer told me they hardly make 8bucks an hour in most of the old downtown joints. same with cocktail waitresses. it's hard to get the good shifts in the upper class places serving to blackjack tables. the ones serving the slots don't make chit. the real money guys are the bartenders and the guy that flags your cab at the busy properties. they all make over 100k.
 
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Keyser Soze

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Yeah, but do you realize how many graduate degrees you need to get a job hailing cabs out there??????? Now we're talking about a job that is VERY stresssful, and takes many skills that most can only dream about having so they could use them in their own job.
 

ScreaminPain

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First off, I have to say I HATE tipping.

But as to the idea of tipping dealers, why? They are paid to deal cards. They voluntarily chose to apply for, and work at, a particular establishment. They were fully aware of the pay when they started. Why do they deserve to get a tip for doing there job? Even if you felt compelled to tip a dealer who was especially cordial and "deserved" a tip, he doesn't even get to keep it.....it's all pooled. Money is shared with some other people who you have no contact with......stupid !!

Tipping has gotten way, way, way out of hand. And you guys who think throwing around a big tip is "cool".....you're crazy.

Do you tip the sportsbook who takes your bet? Do you pay extra juice, cause they talked nice to you on the phone? Hell no. If you're smart, you shop for the best line.

Everybody seems to have their hand out in todays world. The guy in the bathroom who hands you a towel, the guy who hails a cab, the guy who lugs your luggage back and forth, my barber, airport shuttle drivers, restaurant employees, Christ, the list goes on and on.

Yes, you can tell I've never worked in a restaurant or any other tipping environment. But, I feel that if you want to make more money, get an education and find a job that pays more....don't whine about customers not tipping you properly, or bitch about the size of your cut.

Ok, thats my rant for today. You can bring out the red boxes for my rep points......:nono:
 

Keyser Soze

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Yes, it is quite obvious that you have never worked as a tipped employee. It's called the "service Industry", and I am willing to bet that you have run into many different levels of service in your lifetime. Ever been to a restaraunt and kept looking around to find a server to take your order, or after getting your food, looking to find someone to tell them that you steak was overcooked? I am again willing to wager that nearly everybody on this board has encountered this at least once in their lifetime. That's when you realize what good service is, when you get bad service, unfortunately you have already stiffed all of the good ones up until this point, therefore they left because they couldn't make a living on the whopping $2.13 an hour that they are paid in a salary. BTW, that is not some undersestimated random amount that I picked out of the sky. That is what every server and or bartender is paid. As to these folks going to school and getting an education, if you took the time to notice, you would see that the majority of servers out there are of college age, which is why they are there to serve your ignorant ass. They have to attend classes during the day and work a job in the evenings to pay for their education. ,,,,,,,,If it all seems to be a bit out of hand, then just take the bus to the nearest McDonald's and you won't have to worry about tipping anybody. I am quite sure that will be a most pleasant journey all of the way around. And BTW, You don't tip your sportsbook because these folks are not making $2.13 an hour
 
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