Abortion

[JOEBIALEK]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

 

[hedgehog]

:mj03: I agree it should not be used as birth control or paid for by the government. It should only be used if the mother has been raped or is in harm of dieing otherwise it should be outlawed.

 

[SixFive]

:mj03: I agree it should not be used as birth control or paid for by the government. It should only be used if the mother has been raped or is in harm of dieing otherwise it should be outlawed.

I think where the effort to overcome this law fails is when people who oppose abortion put in exceptions (rape/harm to mom, etc.) which are statistically a very small percentage. It's all or nothing imho. Really though, this is never going to change if it hasn't by now, and it's really a moot point. The candidates still usually have their position listed on abortion, but that's pretty standard among party lines. I can hate it all I want, but besides supporting my local Pregnancy Support Center, what else can I really do? :shrug:

Don't take away my freedoms with the Patriot Act, but please, let me kill my own baby if I have an 'accident', 'indiscretion', something that will interfere with school/career, or if I simply just change my mind. This inconsistency troubles me greatly because I never hear about that baby's rights. Guess the unborn have none? Why?

In preemptive response to all that are pro-death (the term Pro-Choice pisses me off) and will say that the baby is just a mass of cells; if that mass of cells is left alone, and the host (mom) leads her normal life and ignores that mass, what will happen 36-40 weeks after that mass appears?

 

[Keyser Soze]

Yes, let's bring more unwanted kids into this wonderful world of ours:shrug:
How to catch wild pigs

There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange

students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab, the Prof noticed

one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching

as if his back hurt.

The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him

he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists

in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government

and install a new communist regime.



In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange

question. He asked: "Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"



The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young

man said that it was no joke.



"You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn

on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free

corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side

of the place where they are used to coming.

When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put

up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again.

You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the

last side.?

The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to

eat that free corn again.



You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild

pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but

they are caught.



Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have

forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their

captivity.



The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening

in America . The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and

keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental

income, tax credit for unearned income, tax cuts, tax exemptions, tobacco

subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine,

drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

One should always remember two truths:

1) There is no such thing as a free lunch.

2) and you can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than

you can do it yourself.



If you see that all of this wonderful government 'help' is a problem confronting

the future of democracy in America , you might want to send this on to your friends.



If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you will probably

delete this email.



But God help you when the gate slams shut!

 

[bryanz]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death. Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions. They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter! Does the father of the child have a say in this? And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

I personally have done everything in my life not to be involed in a abortion.. Outlawing abortion will not stop abortion.. I do agree we should put a higher value on life. Lets start with all life that has been born, the life out side the womb... We shoot animals in the name of humanity to prevent suffering. I believe abortion is Gods way of preventing suffering. Think about all the life in this world that knows suffering from day one..... What kind of mother kills a life ? A mother that shouldn't be a mother.... I'm against abortion personally but I'll let you and others make the call indivigually. There are many that would disagree with you that we as a country cherished life before abortion was legel. I don't know if you are a woman or minority but I'll bet most of them don't want to go back to Pre Anerica legal abortions... We're not a perfect society but we are a better one, with a long way to go. We have Americans breeding like dogs & cats... 30 to 34 yr old grandmothers... 3 generations of poor uneducated people... If you make abortion illegal, people with money will still get safe abortions... The people on the botton will suffer even more ... Where is your humanity ?

 

[bjfinste]

The ability to make abortions safer was outstanding medical advance that should be used more often by unfit parents who face an unwanted pregnancy.

I just hope that one day this country will progress to a point where people with archaic, neanderthal-like thinking such as the last two paragraphs in SixFive's above post aren't such a vocal minority, and people will be free to make their own reproductive choices about their own lives without the constant meddling of others.

 

[IntenseOperator]

all I'm gonna ad to this gas can......

All the people (m/f) I've known or come across that were part of an abortion are totally fvked up. It seems they just never got "passed" that moment/situation or the unkown extended circumstances.

It seems one doesn't just hit the clinic and then go out for lunch.

bol on this thread

 

[Keyser Soze]

Intense........

How many folks do you know that have opted not to abort and are in a far greater mess now? If you don't know any of those, then God bless you. I know quite a few people on both sides of this fence, neither is simple or clean. It is very easy for others to sit back and judge others and tell them what they should do with their lives and their bodies, but they are not in that persons shoes. If you wish not to have an abortion, then don't. But just as was said in my earlier post in this thread, there are plenty of people on both sides of every issue, so you can't just start p[icking the things that you are against and have them outlawed. If we as a nation continue to do that, then you are going to wake up one morning to find that you no longer have the right to make personal choices. Does anybody remember when they outlawed alcohol? Did it go away? Was the country a better place? When things are legal, they are at least regulated. ............Maybe we should have them all and save them until they are 18 and then send them to a country that never attacked us or was any threat and have them killed there instead........Maybe we should work on ways to feed the millions of kids in this country that don' t have anything to eat or heat in there hole called a home first, before we start adding more to the pile.

 

[Chadman]

Joe, I would hope in the future (noting the 8 total posts) that you start threads that will actually promote a difference of opinion and elicit strong responses...

:tongue

Good luck to you.

 

[SixFive]

The ability to make abortions safer was outstanding medical advance that should be used more often by unfit parents who face an unwanted pregnancy.

I just hope that one day this country will progress to a point where people with archaic, neanderthal-like thinking such as the last two paragraphs in SixFive's above post aren't such a vocal minority, and people will be free to make their own reproductive choices about their own lives without the constant meddling of others.

Who's to decide who is an unfit parent and who is not??? I have a friend who's mother was 12 when she was born. I can't think of any more unfit of a mother than a 12 year old. Too bad she wasn't aborted and couldn't have contributed all the things in her life to society that she has .

I hope 1 day all of the liberal pussies (like bjfinste who started this) will be consistent with their beliefs. It's not a reproductive choice; it's killing something that will become a baby, then a toddler, then a child, then a teen, then an adult (a person). Call it what it is. It's not pro-choice, it's pro-death to the baby.

Chit, don't do anything harmful to the environment, but kill all the babies you want. :shrug: Don't cut down all those poor trees, but it's just fine for you to have an abortion since u got drunk and focked 4 weeks ago.

"neanderthal-like thinking" :mj07: I'm going to argue that it's far more neanderthal to kill a baby and think it's right.

Heck, if we're killing babies, why not make euthenasia an option too. Let's just take all those old, useless, paralyzed tube feeders from the nursing homes and inject them all with potassium chloride.

Where is the value for human life??

 

[SixFive]

Joe, I would hope in the future (noting the 8 total posts) that you start threads that will actually promote a difference of opinion and elicit strong responses...

:tongue

Good luck to you.

chime in; don't shy away. Let's talk about abortion. I'm ready to rumble today.

Bring it on, lefties! I know I'm severely outnumbered in this forum.

 

[godsfavoritedog]

Actually, it was decided on January 22, 1973 but better late than never ... so ... Happy belated Birthday (Unbirthday??? :00hour ), Roe vs. Wade!!! :00x9

I couldn't care less when life begins. The only problem I have with abortion is that it's too costly and too much of a pain in the ass to get one. I'd love to see it provided as a free service some day. The savings would be phenomenal.

 

[escarzamd]

I'll add some gas......

God forbid.........don't allow all this manslaughter at conception........but once they're conceived in poverty here in the US or elsewhere, DONT support their health and education, DONT help them train for a job to support themselves unless its in the military (where its ok to send them to an 83rd trimester abortion, apparently), DONT help them keep a decent wage job by busting up their right to organize or sending that job overseas because those conceptions will do it for food money, and DONT give a frogs fat-ass about them unless they adhere to your belief system........

Freakin' sky-pilots.......abortion should've never been a federal issue anyway.......but ferchrissakes keep your belief system out of the legal arena.......christian extremism is no better than muslim extremism.......its just green apples and red apples........

How you like them apples?? Please don't counter with the "He probably performs abortions" argument........its dated and just silly. I just happen to possess a certain clarity for the ground on which we find ourselves deployed.

:0corn

 

[SixFive]

I'll add some gas......

God forbid.........don't allow all this manslaughter at conception........but once they're conceived in poverty here in the US or elsewhere, DONT support their health and education, DONT help them train for a job to support themselves unless its in the military (where its ok to send them to an 83rd trimester abortion, apparently), DONT help them keep a decent wage job by busting up their right to organize or sending that job overseas because those conceptions will do it for food money, and DONT give a frogs fat-ass about them unless they adhere to your belief system........

Freakin' sky-pilots.......abortion should've never been a federal issue anyway.......but ferchrissakes keep your belief system out of the legal arena.......christian extremism is no better than muslim extremism.......its just green apples and red apples........

How you like them apples?? Please don't counter with the "He probably performs abortions" argument........its dated and just silly. I just happen to possess a certain clarity for the ground on which we find ourselves deployed.

:0corn

only thing I agree with is it shouldn't have ever been a federal issue. My argument has nothing to do with Christianity, nor did I reference that :shrug: I think it's wrong to kill others, and that includes the unborn. I hate that this issue is always shrunk down to "Privacy" by those who are pro-choice. If I kill my neighbor in private, does that mean it's ok? If a woman is raped in the privacy of her own home, does that mean it's ok? That's a bs argument. If you're for abortion, sack up and say it's ok with you that babies are killed. I'd rather people be totally irreverent like godsfavoritedog than to try to explain it away as a privacy issue.

Lastly, u don't know chit about what I do in the community or what charities I support. what u listed above has nothing to do with abortion. Don't dodge what really happens in this process.

 

[Chadman]

Of all subjects to be middle of the road on, this is one for me. I understand both sides of the discussion, and can agree with much of both. I lean towards it being a personal decision for the woman, and can certainly see this being a states rights issue. I think the subject can be looked at based on the situation, a difference between choosing to have sex without protection, and being raped with no choice.

Personally, I had unprotected sex in my twenties, the woman told me she was on the pill, got pregnant (think it was intentional, but never knew for certain) and I decided to get married, have the child and attempt to be a good father. I was not ready, but did what I thought was responsible, despite nagging thoughts I was lied to. Got divorced, love my daughter, who is a great person and doing well.

Kind of falls into the to each their own category to me, so I won't be ranting here. But since I was asked, that's my wishy-washy response. For me personally, I'm glad I was part of having a choice, and my choice was to be a part of bringing the child into the world. For others, that may not be the right thing for them or the child, in some ways. Tough one.

 

[escarzamd]

truce 6-5


the problem i have generally w/ the pro-life crowd are the several other political stances associated with them........so in my mind they are (tangentially) related to the abortion issue.

i dont presume to know you or how you operate in the community.......abortion is a tired topic for me.......put in the situation, who knows what i would do? at this point i could support the "mistake", so its a little easier, but its really a practical, not a religious issue in my mind......i just don't see or feel it as immoral (sic?) to make that the decision to have an elective 1st tri-mester abortion.......i've posted before that, scientifically, a fetus really is not a life until tri#2......its a developing protoplasm, an undifferentiated mass of cells not much different from the fetus of an ape, lizard, or bird.......its a reach for me to believe that that's a viable human being, therefore to make the analogy with killing a post-partum human being just does not fly with me.

my rant seemed like a personal assault and that's inappropriate for this forum.......for that i apologize.

that's where i stand......have a day

 

[djv]

I think every man should have one before telling
a woman if she can.

 

[redsfann]

I'll add some gas......

God forbid.........don't allow all this manslaughter at conception........but once they're conceived in poverty here in the US or elsewhere, DONT support their health and education, DONT help them train for a job to support themselves unless its in the military (where its ok to send them to an 83rd trimester abortion, apparently), DONT help them keep a decent wage job by busting up their right to organize or sending that job overseas because those conceptions will do it for food money, and DONT give a frogs fat-ass about them unless they adhere to your belief system........

Freakin' sky-pilots.......abortion should've never been a federal issue anyway.......but ferchrissakes keep your belief system out of the legal arena.......christian extremism is no better than muslim extremism.......its just green apples and red apples........

How you like them apples?? Please don't counter with the "He probably performs abortions" argument........its dated and just silly. I just happen to possess a certain clarity for the ground on which we find ourselves deployed.

:0corn

Knew there was a reason why I like you, Doc. Summed up my thoughts on this difficult subject without my lazy ass having to type it out...
Hope to tailgate with you sometime at an Iowa game.
Didn't make it to The Sanctuary last time I was in town to check on that graffiti....

 

[bryanz]

I think every man should have one before telling
a woman if she can.

agreed.... are you talking about abortion or birth ? :SIB I agree on both accounts.... If you are having sex with a woman that doesn't agree with you on this point, you should have kept it in your pants.... I love the pro life crowd : pro life to the death or untill the kid comes out of the womb.....

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Where is the value for human life??

Indeed, I think this is the real question. Do we value the life of the mother or the life of something that lacks the capacity to suffer? Do we value life, or a good life. Personally, I think everyone deserves a shot at a good life, not just life.

I value life from start to finish. If there is a chance we can snuff out a crappy life before it starts, I think we need to consider it. Why put (future) people in an unwinnable situation from the word go? It doesn't make sense. In the book Freakonomics, there is a section that talks about the effect of Roe v. Wade on crime. Kids that were bound to be criminals were never born and the crime rate started to drop as all of the those would be criminals would have been turning into adults. Am I saying that we should abort the children of the poor? Heck no. I'm saying that if we can't bring children into a good situation (good is to be intrepreted by the mother/father) then we shouldn't bring them in. For every story about a child that was almost aborted and grew up successful, we have hundreds that turned out to be menaces/burdens to society.

I truly wish that the people that rail against the inhumanity of abortion would turn their attention to the war....where actual people are being killed.

PS: Clint, I think euthenasia should be legal. It's about quality of life. I'm not sayig we should start killing the old people, but I do think that people that are suffering deserve the right to end their life on their terms.