Vigilante or Guardian?
- Thread starter MadJack
- Start date
Just got in from trip and was watching-on CNN @ Airport.
Haven't read any about it yet--but from CNN's playing of 911 tape appears he was looking for an excuse to kill them--if so I have prob with someone using deadly force on non violent crime--if it turns out they were armed or if he really thought they were armed--I would change opinion.
As far as shooting them in leg--that would not be an option--would not shoot at all before shooting in the leg--would not want to look over my shoulder afterward with him wanting revenge.
--but until I see he was in danger or thought he was-can't advocate killing--now guy in new york that capped assailents on subway was diff story--only mistake he made was letting 2 of them live to come back and sue him--don't know how the civil suit turned out--in NY anythings possible.
Haven't read any about it yet--but from CNN's playing of 911 tape appears he was looking for an excuse to kill them--if so I have prob with someone using deadly force on non violent crime--if it turns out they were armed or if he really thought they were armed--I would change opinion.
As far as shooting them in leg--that would not be an option--would not shoot at all before shooting in the leg--would not want to look over my shoulder afterward with him wanting revenge.
--but until I see he was in danger or thought he was-can't advocate killing--now guy in new york that capped assailents on subway was diff story--only mistake he made was letting 2 of them live to come back and sue him--don't know how the civil suit turned out--in NY anythings possible.
Dogs, why would he call 9-1-1? To boast about the fact he was going to kill these guys? He tried to get them over there!
I'm seriously doubting the call we heard was the whole call. I'm pretty sure it was edited to give us the "meat". Who knows how long the call lasted?
And Justin........I'm pretty sure 230 years ago, this country wasn't founded on letting guys break into your "crib" and steal your shit. I'm guessing 230 years ago, far more men would have done the same thing Joe did for his neighbor, than would today. More to the point, I'm guessing even less people would have been appalled than the hand wringers in here.
I'm seriously doubting the call we heard was the whole call. I'm pretty sure it was edited to give us the "meat". Who knows how long the call lasted?
And Justin........I'm pretty sure 230 years ago, this country wasn't founded on letting guys break into your "crib" and steal your shit. I'm guessing 230 years ago, far more men would have done the same thing Joe did for his neighbor, than would today. More to the point, I'm guessing even less people would have been appalled than the hand wringers in here.
Texas man cleared of shooting suspected burglars
HOUSTON - Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.
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Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.
Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.
After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.
"He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.
Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.
Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.
"He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.
Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.
"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."
Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.
Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.
"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."
Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.
A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.
A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.
The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.
Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."
In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.
"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."
"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."
After the shooting, he redialed 911.
"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."
HOUSTON - Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.
ADVERTISEMENT
Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.
Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.
After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.
"He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.
Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.
Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.
"He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.
Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.
"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."
Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.
Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.
"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."
Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.
A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.
A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.
The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.
Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."
In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.
"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."
"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."
After the shooting, he redialed 911.
"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."
wonder what would have happened if the homeowner had walked in on these 2 burglars?....
also wonder if this was the first time for these burglars?...stats indicate that criminals get away with an average of around 30 crimes before being caught...
so,the liklihood is that if they`d walked,as you guys would prefer,they`d be burglarizing another hard working stiff in the near future...
wth....let `em live and take the chance that they`ll kill or terrorize some poor hard working guy and his family somewhere down the line..who knows what they`d do in a fluid situation such as this.....lets just sing kumbaya and hope that the cops get them before they prey on the innocent a few dozen more times...
and hope they`re benevolent enough to not harm anybody...
lets get another liberal or two on the supreme court so they can repeal the 2nd amendment..
this way,it won`t be an issue....if a guy breaks into YOUR house,you`ll HAVE to depend on the cops to make it right...cause you won`t have a choice...
it`d be pretty hard to stop two burglars without a gun....maybe rape your wife and your daughter....and make you watch...
keep your nose clean...you won`t have any problems...
i`ve said it many times...liberalism is truly a disease...
justin....it`s not your fault...it`s a direct result of doing hard time in wacademia...
also wonder if this was the first time for these burglars?...stats indicate that criminals get away with an average of around 30 crimes before being caught...
so,the liklihood is that if they`d walked,as you guys would prefer,they`d be burglarizing another hard working stiff in the near future...
wth....let `em live and take the chance that they`ll kill or terrorize some poor hard working guy and his family somewhere down the line..who knows what they`d do in a fluid situation such as this.....lets just sing kumbaya and hope that the cops get them before they prey on the innocent a few dozen more times...
and hope they`re benevolent enough to not harm anybody...
lets get another liberal or two on the supreme court so they can repeal the 2nd amendment..
this way,it won`t be an issue....if a guy breaks into YOUR house,you`ll HAVE to depend on the cops to make it right...cause you won`t have a choice...
it`d be pretty hard to stop two burglars without a gun....maybe rape your wife and your daughter....and make you watch...
keep your nose clean...you won`t have any problems...
i`ve said it many times...liberalism is truly a disease...
justin....it`s not your fault...it`s a direct result of doing hard time in wacademia...
The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
I still think he should be sitting in the first convertible in the parade on the 4th.
:00hour
I still think he should be sitting in the first convertible in the parade on the 4th.
:00hour
Jack, again.........Does this guy have a history of "shooting people up"?
But, I'll make a wager that the two fuking scumbags he ended had a "history", and I'm also willing to parlay that with, "they would have had a future" in boosting shit, too!
If you really believe that all of Texas will start going after every turd.........well, then I guess you do.
But, I'll make a wager that the two fuking scumbags he ended had a "history", and I'm also willing to parlay that with, "they would have had a future" in boosting shit, too!
If you really believe that all of Texas will start going after every turd.........well, then I guess you do.
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i'm not going to get into it again. sorry i even mentioned it.
you can't have people running around shooting people because of....whatever.
that guy wasn't threatened at all, he was asked by 911 to stay inside and the cops were on the way, and if i remember correctly, he doesn't even know his fcuking neighbors. so WTF was he doing? he was playing cop and he shouldn't be allowed to, plain and simple.
i keep going back to; suppose, just suppose, the guys he shot were innocent, were friends of the home owner, were relatives? what then? it'll happen.
so i got into it anyway but i'm done now
you can't have people running around shooting people because of....whatever.
that guy wasn't threatened at all, he was asked by 911 to stay inside and the cops were on the way, and if i remember correctly, he doesn't even know his fcuking neighbors. so WTF was he doing? he was playing cop and he shouldn't be allowed to, plain and simple.
i keep going back to; suppose, just suppose, the guys he shot were innocent, were friends of the home owner, were relatives? what then? it'll happen.
so i got into it anyway but i'm done now
Could have used this guy as a neighbor a little over a year ago then again Raymond wouldn't be posting anymore.
All of you still aren't seeing the point. You CANT just go around shooting people you think are stealing.
Who cares if they get away with some of your things... they aren't taking your life.
Crime rates follow the economy...
I was hoping this case would go to the high court.... and they would surely strike down that texas statute. But we aren't going to see a case.
I was hoping to follow the appellate process
Who cares if they get away with some of your things... they aren't taking your life.
Crime rates follow the economy...
I was hoping this case would go to the high court.... and they would surely strike down that texas statute. But we aren't going to see a case.
I was hoping to follow the appellate process
Good for JOE !!!
If you don't want to be killed, don't break the law !!
I'll bet crime goes down in Joe's neighborhood !!
Hope I'm never in that position, cuz there would be a couple more widows in town. :00hour
Fukc the thieving scumbags !! He shoulda pissed on their dead carcasses.
If you don't want to be killed, don't break the law !!
I'll bet crime goes down in Joe's neighborhood !!
Hope I'm never in that position, cuz there would be a couple more widows in town. :00hour
Fukc the thieving scumbags !! He shoulda pissed on their dead carcasses.
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It would appear that you can!
And since you are such a stat guy, you can't be so blind as to think the crime rate wouldn't drop if a guy knew his odds of dying were quite high.
The house that was burglarized belongs to an Asain family. Diego Ortiz and Hernando Torres don't look too much like Asians. Joe Horn didn't have to think. It was obvious.
