Stocks Set to Open Lower- AP

StevieD

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Stocks Set to Open Lower- AP
Wall Street headed for a moderately lower open Monday as investors watched to see if oil will extend its recent losses and also awaited a reading on existing home sales.

Oil Rises Above $115 as Dollar Weakens- AP

Anyone else beginning to think that maybe the price of oil has some influence on the stock market?

:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie
 

marine

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:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
so now "oil has an influence on the market"?

2 weeks ago you couldn't shut up about how the market and oil are tied at the hip, with oil leading the way.

now oil just influences the market. Glad to see you are finally coming around stevied. HOORAY!

Yes, the cost of oil has AN influence on the market - just like everything else going.

I don't understand why you are laughing so much in your post? You're finally starting to think straight and you think it's funny?
 

StevieD

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:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
so now "oil has an influence on the market"?

2 weeks ago you couldn't shut up about how the market and oil are tied at the hip, with oil leading the way.

now oil just influences the market. Glad to see you are finally coming around stevied. HOORAY!

Yes, the cost of oil has AN influence on the market - just like everything else going.

I don't understand why you are laughing so much in your post? You're finally starting to think straight and you think it's funny?

Yuu know what Marine. I used to give you some credit for at least using your brain. Unlike guys like Saint and some others on here. But now you prove that you only use it to prove you are right. You are going to pick up one every word and try to prove your point. This is like me saying that you said OIL NEVER INFLUENCES THE MARKET. Much like that stupid blogger you quoted, who tried to make a point that oil had nothing to do with the price of the Market.
This whole thing started because DTB ( another genius ) was taking the right wing claim that what is good for Big Oil is good for America. He was claiming we should all be happy be happy that Big Oil has these profits because most working Americans have Big Oil stocks in their Mutual Funds and 401 k's.
I know I lost most of the Right Wing when I took it to another level and said that the downward pressure the rise of oil has made has driven the overall market down and not up. DTB did as he usually does when confronted with facts and moved on.
But you decided to try to pick every word apart. And you posted a chart. When I asked you to look at the last 18 months of your chart, because that is the time frame we are using, you wanted to get into word games again.
Once again, because I chose the word influenced you want to jump all over me. Well guess what big shot, that idiot blogger you posted was trying to prove that it DOES NOT INFLUENCE it.
So just what is your point? In the face of day after day headlines. Do you think the high price of oil is driving the market up or down or has nothing to do with it.
Those are the three options. A simple answer that even a simpleton like Saint could understand would be all that is needed.
 
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marine

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no stevie. You've pretty much consistently said that the market is directly tied to oil. Plain and simple. The market directly reacts to the cost of oil and only oil.

"that idiot blogger" was making a point that oil is not the ONLY influence in the market and that the correlation that people like you make is not that strong.

Of course oil influences the market, EVERYTHING influences the market. What oil does not do, however, is drive the market as the ONLY influence - which you have suggested time and time again.

You've even gone so far as to say that a .9% increase in the price of oil is a spike. And that a spike like that causes the market to drive one way or another.

Get over yourself with this topic. Pretty soon Mr. Media will have a new topic for you to climb on a soap box about and scream from the mountaintops and you'll have forgotten all about this little tangent of yours.
 

StevieD

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no stevie. You've pretty much consistently said that the market is directly tied to oil. Plain and simple. The market directly reacts to the cost of oil and only oil.

"that idiot blogger" was making a point that oil is not the ONLY influence in the market and that the correlation that people like you make is not that strong.

Of course oil influences the market, EVERYTHING influences the market. What oil does not do, however, is drive the market as the ONLY influence - which you have suggested time and time again.

You've even gone so far as to say that a .9% increase in the price of oil is a spike. And that a spike like that causes the market to drive one way or another.

Get over yourself with this topic. Pretty soon Mr. Media will have a new topic for you to climb on a soap box about and scream from the mountaintops and you'll have forgotten all about this little tangent of yours.
Please show me where I said that oil is the ONLY thing that drives the market. I have said that oil drives the market yes. But I have never said that it is the only thing. It is you who has to get over himself. Admit that oil does drive the market. You have made the claim that it doesn't. We all know that many things influence the market. So, if you can show me I said oil was the only thing that influened the market then I would like to see it.
 

The Sponge

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Stevie a little advice? Cut your winnings and move on. With this guy you will be arguing about misspelled words pretty soon. He has never lost a debate in his life. Just ask him, he will tell ya.
 

StevieD

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Stevie a little advice? Cut your winnings and move on. With this guy you will be arguing about misspelled words pretty soon. He has never lost a debate in his life. Just ask him, he will tell ya.

In all fairness it does seem that way. I did say that oil influences everything. It is the main reason for inflation. But he and his brainless bitches take that to mean that I said oil is the only thing in the history of the world that moves the market.
But I am still waiting for him or any of his bitches to show me when I said that oil was the ONLY thing that moved the market :142smilie :142smilie
 

marine

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please.

Stevie, you told us that when oil goes up, the market goes down.
No matter what these American hating articles tell us.

remember?

You made a pretty silly statement that hung you waayyyyyyyy out to the left. Ever since I called you on it, you've been slowly changing your statement and drawing yourself closer and closer to the middle.

You've gone from oil being the driver of the market to oil influencing things now. I applaud you on your shift to the middle and attempted ability to correct yourself, without actually admitting to swallowing down too much blogging "facts" and trying to turn this on me as the dolt for letting you know how wrong you were.
You're almost back to normalville. Welcome home.
 

dawgball

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In all fairness it does seem that way. I did say that oil influences everything. It is the main reason for inflation. But he and his brainless bitches take that to mean that I said oil is the only thing in the history of the world that moves the market.
But I am still waiting for him or any of his bitches to show me when I said that oil was the ONLY thing that moved the market :142smilie :142smilie

My take is that currently oil is one of two principle drivers in the market. Since it has much more volatility than the other (housing), then it appears to almost be the only driver. If our housing market would not be recovering from a bubble and burst, I don't think oil would have this much influence.

It's very similar to Tech during it's bubble. The whole market hinged on what it did during that era. Then the housing market bubble. Same effect.

The main difference here is that it has a reverse correlation. As the other two primary drivers went up, so did the market. But this one has a negative effect on overall market prices.

On a sidenote: I have not responded to any of these threads until now because I was under the impression from your other posts that you were stating that oil was the only force moving anything. And I didn't think that was worth a response.

But I'm no economist.
 

marine

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In all fairness it does seem that way. I did say that oil influences everything. It is the main reason for inflation.

After reading what you wrote, I take back what I said earlier. You're still clueless about this.

Rising oil prices does NOT cause inflation.

Please stop on this subject. It's fairly clear you don't know what you are talking about.
 
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StevieD

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My take is that currently oil is one of two principle drivers in the market. Since it has much more volatility than the other (housing), then it appears to almost be the only driver. If our housing market would not be recovering from a bubble and burst, I don't think oil would have this much influence.

It's very similar to Tech during it's bubble. The whole market hinged on what it did during that era. Then the housing market bubble. Same effect.

The main difference here is that it has a reverse correlation. As the other two primary drivers went up, so did the market. But this one has a negative effect on overall market prices.

On a sidenote: I have not responded to any of these threads until now because I was under the impression from your other posts that you were stating that oil was the only force moving anything. And I didn't think that was worth a response.

But I'm no economist.

Dawgball, I thank you for your civil response. I never intended to say that oil was the only driving force behind the market. I did say that when it spikes a buck or two the market goes down. And I did qualify that by saying considering some other outside force like the lowering of interest rates didn't take place that day.

I never said to be an economist. I was simply trying to defuse DTB's statement that Joe Average makes out good when oil goes up because they have oil stocks in their 401 k's and that big oil pays taxes.

In order to defuse that statement I said the overall affct of oil is that high prices bring the market down. Which does not do any favors for Joe Average and his 401 k.

Marine took that to mean that in the history of the world oil has not always had that affect on the stock market so I am wrong.

Well I clarified and said I was only talking during THIS crises. Kind of what you said. And I told him to check his chart for the last 18 months.

Anyway thanks for responding.
 
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StevieD

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After reading what you wrote, I take back what I said earlier. You're still clueless about this.

Rising oil prices does NOT cause inflation.

Please stop on this subject. It's fairly clear you don't know what you are talking about.

Okay big shot. What is causing inflation this time around?
:shrug:
 

dawgball

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I agree that having oil stocks in 401Ks helps off-set rising oil prices, but there are really two main deficiencies in this argument.

1. What percentage of Americans actually fund their 401K?
2. Oil companies would have to be a rather large percentage of your retirement to offset a doubling in gas prices.

p.s. I like higher gas prices. It forces innovation. But the medicine tastes terrible on the way down!
 

marine

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Okay big shot. What is causing inflation this time around?
:shrug:


Inflation is caused by the same thing every time. I'd recommend simply going to google.com and typing in "what causes inflation" into the search box and perhaps read something about it.

or, what you might like even more, type in "can oil cause inflation?"

pretty much the whole economic world is onboard with the same thing as the cause for inflation. Perhaps you could go and educate them or something on how the economy really works.
 

StevieD

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Inflation is caused by the same thing every time. I'd recommend simply going to google.com and typing in "what causes inflation" into the search box and perhaps read something about it.

or, what you might like even more, type in "can oil cause inflation?"

pretty much the whole economic world is onboard with the same thing as the cause for inflation. Perhaps you could go and educate them or something on how the economy really works.

You are not a very focused person are you? Again, no one is asking for a history lesson. We are talking about the last 18 months

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–2008_world_food_price_crisis


The years 2007?2008 saw dramatic rises in world food prices, creating a global crisis and causing political and economical instability and social unrest in both poor and developed nations.

Systemic causes for the world-wide increases in food prices continue to be the subject of debate. Initial causes of the late 2006 price spikes included unseasonable droughts in grain producing nations and rising oil prices. Oil prices further heightened the costs of fertilizers, food transport, and industrial agriculture. Other causes may be the increasing use of biofuels in developed countries (see also food vs fuel),[1] and an increasing demand for a more varied diet (especially meat) across the expanding middle-class populations of Asia.[2][3] These factors, coupled with falling world food stockpiles have all contributed to the dramatic world-wide rise in food prices.[4] Long-term causes remain a topic of debate. These may include structural changes in trade and agricultural production, agricultural price supports and subsidies in developed nations, diversions of food commodities to high input foods and fuel, commodity market speculation, and climate change.
 

marine

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You are not a very focused person are you? Again, no one is asking for a history lesson. We are talking about the last 18 months

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–2008_world_food_price_crisis


The years 2007?2008 saw dramatic rises in world food prices, creating a global crisis and causing political and economical instability and social unrest in both poor and developed nations.

Systemic causes for the world-wide increases in food prices continue to be the subject of debate. Initial causes of the late 2006 price spikes included unseasonable droughts in grain producing nations and rising oil prices. Oil prices further heightened the costs of fertilizers, food transport, and industrial agriculture. Other causes may be the increasing use of biofuels in developed countries (see also food vs fuel),[1] and an increasing demand for a more varied diet (especially meat) across the expanding middle-class populations of Asia.[2][3] These factors, coupled with falling world food stockpiles have all contributed to the dramatic world-wide rise in food prices.[4] Long-term causes remain a topic of debate. These may include structural changes in trade and agricultural production, agricultural price supports and subsidies in developed nations, diversions of food commodities to high input foods and fuel, commodity market speculation, and climate change.


Your point is?
1. Oil isn't the only thing affecting things.
2. This isnt the main cause of inflation.
Seriously, stop embarassing yourself. Learn what the big words like "inflation" mean before you go using them.

"I did say that oil influences everything. It is the main reason for inflation."
 
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StevieD

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Your point is?
1. Oil isn't the only thing affecting things.
2. This isnt the main cause of inflation.
Seriously, stop embarassing yourself. Learn what the big words like "inflation" mean before you go using them.

"I did say that oil influences everything. It is the main reason for inflation."

The only embarasment I feel is argueing with the likes of you. Sorry but you are right, in Abe Lincolns day oil didn't cause inflation there was something else. But today when energy doubles in price it affects everything. Sorry about that but there is no argument that is just the way it is. Just like when oil spikes the market goes down. It's pretty simple really and doesn't need an economist to sort it out.
So I stand by my statement as you have not brought anything to the table except to say that "inflation is caused by the same thing every time."
You are like those guys that like to mess with their computers. They go in the registry and change settings because they know just enough to get them in trouble.
I cannot waste anymore time with this. Trying to explain every little word. The more you repeat the lie doesn't make it right. So you go right on saying I said stuff I didn't say, that I then interperted for you, but you will still keep repeating the lie.
But I am thru with you. Everyone saw the headlines day after day. If that ain't good enough for NASCAR Nation then it is good enough for the thinking members of this board.
 
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StevieD

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I agree that having oil stocks in 401Ks helps off-set rising oil prices, but there are really two main deficiencies in this argument.

1. What percentage of Americans actually fund their 401K?
2. Oil companies would have to be a rather large percentage of your retirement to offset a doubling in gas prices.

p.s. I like higher gas prices. It forces innovation. But the medicine tastes terrible on the way down!

Dawgball, I also agree that having oil stocks is a good idea but it is kind of hard to give the oil companies credit for bringing the 401 k's up. The overall affect of high oil prices has been a lower S and P. So my point is that although oil stocks went up their gain is more than offset by a total lower stock market.
That is all I was saying.
 

marine

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Here, I found a nice simple big-bird style blurb for you to print out and have someone read to you about how inflation works.

Something Besides Money Growth Causes Inflation? It Just Ain't So!
By Howard Baetjer, Jr.

"So what does cause inflation? Well, what or who increases the money supply? Central banks do. In the United States, the Federal Reserve System (the Fed) controls the money supply and thereby causes any inflation that occurs.

Let us look at some of Samuelson?s specific points. He implies that high oil prices are driving inflation when he writes, ?We all know about oil. Prices are about $60 a barrel,? and he asserts that government spending drives inflation when he writes, ?[T]he government?s subsidies for corn-based ethanol are worsening inflation.? Samuelson is surely correct that government should not subsidize ethanol and thereby push up the prices of corn and all things made with corn. But high oil prices and government spending on ethanol do not change the money supply, so they cannot change the level of prices.

Surely higher prices for oil and corn drive up the prices of goods and services produced using oil and corn, such as transportation and many foods, so we should expect to see higher price levels in those sectors of the economy. But inflation is an increase in the prices overall, not in just some sectors. If the prices of transportation and food rise, then the prices of other goods and services must fall unless more money flows into the system. If we have no more to spend in toto, then when we must spend more money on gasoline, we have less money to spend on, say, clothing. This means that

clothing makers would have to lower their prices in order to sell their wares; they in turn would have less to spend on cloth, labor, and other inputs, so we should expect to see lower price levels in those sectors of the economy. The higher prices in one sector would be offset by lower prices in other sectors, as long as there is only so much money to go around."
 

BOHICA

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Just like when oil spikes the market goes down. It's pretty simple really and doesn't need an economist to sort it out.

Thursday the price of oil goes up over $5, and the market stays flat. The good mews in the financial sector made up for the "spike" in oil that day.

Today the price of oil rose by a whole $.52, yet the DJIA dropped more then 240 points due to bad news in the financial sector.

So by using your logic would there not be a better correlation between the financials, and the DJIA? :shrug:

I am sure that you will reply with the same tired shit about oil companies and high profits and hurting 401k's, and right wing, neocon, blah, blah, blah.......

Those have nothing to do with the fact that you are trying to over simplify something that is not that simple.

I know that you are done with this argument as it is far too elementary for you. I would imagine that you will next enlighten us on Quantum Physics.
 
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