3000-facts

[redsfann]

Was wondering how long it would be before the other idiot who can't form a correct sentance if his life depended on it weighed in on this thread...took you a while, weasel.

Some nice weasel-isms here....

"sooo,right-o.......the 1st amendment gives everyone the right to be as stupid as they want to be...it also gives others the right to point it out...."

thats what i was doing, Einstein. Read it back to yourself, and that is my response.

"o.k.brain surgeon..."

damn, how'd you know that? And here I thought I had thrown everyone off my trail by me stating that I was self-employed in the credit and collections business....
redsfann...""""Therefore, the North Vietnamese WON the war and no matter how much drivel Americans like to spew out concerning their "superiority and victory" in any number of battles, the fact remains that after the dust settled, the North Vietnamese achieved what they were after and the Super Power of super powers had to put its tail between its legs and slink off home. This book tells you how the North Vietnamese emerged victorious and is worth reading.""""

...everyone read that paragraph twice....spoken like a true patriot...lol

Not the author of that, moron, but thanks for thinking of little ol me when typing your response...


"you`re not american are you?........at least,i hope you aren`t an american......the guy`s splooging all over himself discussing the "viet nam" failure....this paragraph speaks volumes...i feel nauseous..."

100% American...and your nauseous?
PMS kicking your ass again, tough guy? I feel soooo bad for you....yeah, right...

 

[smurphy]

Just think if Bush was allowed to run wild un checked. What a
disaster.

But that's exactly what folks like Weasel would prefer. You see, if the media wasn't always getting in the way with their negative vibes, then we'd be winning. It's as simple as that. Stupid free enterprise, freedom of the press, and angst-ridden liberals have made us lose the war. Our leaders have been great and noble, our strategy sound, our cause totally correct, but these media types and liberals ...well, they may as well be pointing guns directly at our troops' heads and pulling the triggers.

 

[gardenweasel]

i think you guys just answered my super bowl party question....lol:

 

[smurphy]

Weasel, I hated Raymond before the party 2 years ago. But next thing you know, the 2 of us are saving a guy's life together. For some reason, as soon as you meet someone, you no longer want to punch them in the face. ....Also, Raymond was a little imposing. I didn't want to end up at the bottom of Lake Mead.

Of course there was that Chanman guy. Did anyone ever hear from him after he went missing?

 

[redsfann]

exactly, Smurph. So what if we all tend to get carried away when posting our thoughts on weighty matters here at Jack's--but that shouldn't mean that we can't all sit down together over a drink or two and enjoy each others company, right?

One of these years I will forgo my usual X-mas-time holiday travel and join you all at the Super Bowl party in Vegas....

But only if gardenweasel is gonna be there, so I can punch him in the face....



easy, big guy. I'm just teasing...

I think..no, I'm not...yes, I am...now I'm so confused I better go lay down.......

 

[pirate fan]

I didn't read all this thread, too long, so I apologize in advance. I understand the 3000 american soldiers dying which is upsetting,and I can only wonder how things would be if we hadn't gone in, maybe better, maybe worse, I don't think anyone can answer difinatively one way or the other even though there are strong opinions on both sides of the arguement. When I hear of mass graves and chemical weapons and other tortures inflicted over the many years there by Saddam, has anyone seen a number of lives that may have been saved? I don't want to distinguish american from any other human, just lives. There have definately been losses, but haven't we saved some also, in terms of people in Iraq, actual citizens of that country? Have we saved at least 3000 lives being there? I wish nobody died, that would be the ideal, but unfortunately our world will never be like this. Has anyone seen an estimate of this? Just curious.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Korea? Why not try WWI and the Civil War as well, DTB?"
+++++++++++++++++++++
Hello--is anyone home?
If you read your history books or ask some of your liberal professors--you might find out is was almost identicle to Viet Nam with north/south civil war--one communist and our aiding the other.

--and once again I see no replys what of question of where South Korea would be now had we bailed out on em after the death toll escalated to 50,000?
I know where they would be if todays liberal and our current media had and input on matter--
They didn't attack us--what are we fighting for?
--and where the shit do those hiding at home and whining ever get "we are fighting" anyway.
The ones fighting aren't doing the whining.

--and speaking of again I see I did get my expected response (silence) on how anyone whether it be North Viet Nam or terrorist in Iraq could defeat our military.
There only hope , as in Viet nam is from those NOT doing the fighting.

Tough to argue with a liberal Weasel--we have Algazeera and terrorist websites quoting our media in effort to bolster their cause and morale and they think its laughable that our media is aiding and abetting the enemy--DUH--Hello--anybody home?

Hate to show so much animousity in this thread but Viet Nam is touchy issue.To see our troops and equally the Souths troops put in so much to come so far to have the rug snatched out from them and knowing most of those that fought beside us were slaughtered when we abandoned them does not set well. I have 10 times the respect for the S vietnamese as I did for the fannypackin punks on the other side of the fence when we arrived back in the states
--and you can take this to the bank--They would have humming"Tin Soilders and Nixon's Commin" through there ass if I had my way.

 

[smurphy]

Hate to show so much animousity in this thread but Viet Nam is touchy issue.To see our troops and equally the Souths troops put in so much to come so far to have the rug snatched out from them and knowing most of those that fought beside us were slaughtered when we abandoned them does not set well..

Why do you put the blame exclusively on media and liberals? Did the government deserve any blame? It's not like the media were making the crucial strategic decisions.

 

[smurphy]

I have 10 times the respect for the S vietnamese as I did for the fannypackin punks on the other side of the fence when we arrived back in the states
--and you can take this to the bank--They would have humming"Tin Soilders and Nixon's Commin" through there ass if I had my way.

You mean like AR?

 

[smurphy]

Tough to argue with a liberal Weasel--we have Algazeera and terrorist websites quoting our media in effort to bolster their cause and morale and they think its laughable that our media is aiding and abetting the enemy--DUH--Hello--anybody home?
.

OK, let's break this down a little. Which comments exactly from our media are resonating through the enemy and giving them aid?

 

[AR182]

You mean like AR?

my friend murphy....

you may have me wrong concerning boycotting the nam war & how i acted during those days.

i did boycott the war & went to demonstrations but not like you think...i went to a few peaceful demonstrations that were headed up by my professors....but like i had previously said i stopped going to that when a guy in my neighborhood was killed (eventhough i was against the war,i didn't think it was right).....which was the latter part of 1969. after that when it was called for students to boycott classes over the war....i did indeed not go to classes, but instead of going to demonstrations, i went to the beach.

one more thing i would like to clear up about my younger days. sure i got high & wore the clothes of that day but i was far from a hippie. i was an athlete....i played organized football (my team never won because we were always high) & i was a lifeguard...a stoned lifeguard, but a lifeguard non the less......

 

[djv]

It's strange how deep Nam cut into some of us. In away even more then WW II. At least WW II there was a plan to win and we did that. Nam pee's me off when I reflect some times my two friends a cousin all three lost. All the refugees we took in as a country. Were still all paying for that.
I'm sure not many here had 100's of them dropped off at your airport and told here take care of these people. Just a blow to your tax system, schools, no room to house them. And when you get first 100 settle in a year or two later here's another 50 to 100. And that went on for a few years. But yet they all had bucks. It was borrowed from our S/S system. You young guns I'm sure did not now any of this. But then I really get peed remembering our plan of capture re- treat and hold. But no win option thks mack. Just die and come home no go out and finish job win baby. No! And that plan was in place long before media started telling story or showing picture's of that brutal war. Out come was a poor plan in place.

 

[smurphy]

my friend murphy....

you may have me wrong concerning boycotting the nam war & how i acted during those days.

i did boycott the war & went to demonstrations but not like you think...i went to a few peaceful demonstrations that were headed up by my professors....but like i had previously said i stopped going to that when a guy in my neighborhood was killed (eventhough i was against the war,i didn't think it was right).....which was the latter part of 1969. after that when it was called for students to boycott classes over the war....i did indeed not go to classes, but instead of going to demonstrations, i went to the beach.

one more thing i would like to clear up about my younger days. sure i got high & wore the clothes of that day but i was far from a hippie. i was an athlete....i played organized football (my team never won because we were always high) & i was a lifeguard...a stoned lifeguard, but a lifeguard non the less......

Was your hair long? I don't know man, if it walks like a hippie, dresses like a hippie and quacks like a hippie ....

Rockaway or Jones? If you ever had to go in the water, you probably got pricked by some good shit washing up from Jersey. You were more than just high, my friend.

 

[JCDunkDogs]

Regarding the reporting of death numbers, lets not ignore the obvious. A free press is part of a healthy democracy. That fact will not change.

In war gaming, when your side's government form is "democratic," you must always plan for the tendency of internal public opinion growing against your war campaign. Its sort of a fact of modern life after Vietnam. Numbers of war deaths will get reported home.

The Administration and Pentagon recognized this, and tried to manage the flow and type of information reaching the U.S. during the first months of the campaign by use of embedded media with field units. This effort proved unmanageable in the ensuing insurgency. The long term question is what will they try to do next time?

More importantly, some posters here seem to unintentionally suggest that our democracy is to blame. Should it be traded in for another form of governemnt or democracy? Something with a more closed society? What, and lose the economic benefits that an open democracy brings? Let's not go crazy.

For better or for worse, democracy is the best form of government to have, even in war gaming. The trick is to pick the "winnable" wars, and pass on the more risky military ventures.

 

[AR182]

Was your hair long? I don't know man, if it walks like a hippie, dresses like a hippie and quacks like a hippie ....

Rockaway or Jones? If you ever had to go in the water, you probably got pricked by some good shit washing up from Jersey. You were more than just high, my friend.

my hair was long for some parts of the year.....but i had a crew-cut when i played football (requirement).....

didn't go to to jones beach since the bronx was too far...i went to manhattan, brighton, & some of the jersey beaches....very rarely did i go to the rockaways.

btw...how do you know about those beaches ?

 

[smurphy]

Regarding the reporting of death numbers, lets not ignore the obvious. A free press is part of a healthy democracy. That fact will not change.

In war gaming, when your side's government form is "democratic," you must always plan for the tendency of internal public opinion growing against your war campaign. Its sort of a fact of modern life after Vietnam. Numbers of war deaths will get reported home.

The Administration and Pentagon recognized this, and tried to manage the flow and type of information reaching the U.S. during the first months of the campaign by use of embedded media with field units. This effort proved unmanageable in the ensuing insurgency. The long term question is what will they try to do next time?

More importantly, some posters here seem to unintentionally suggest that our democracy is to blame. Should it be traded in for another form of governemnt or democracy? Something with a more closed society? What, and lose the economic benefits that an open democracy brings? Let's not go crazy.

For better or for worse, democracy is the best form of government to have, even in war gaming. The trick is to pick the "winnable" wars, and pass on the more risky military ventures.

Excellent post. I can't help but recall that Jessica Lynch farce. Talk about the admin/pentagon trying to control the flow of info. Disdgusting.

AR-

I make maps - I know almost as much about places as Terry Ray. Didn't you see that picture Scott-ATL posted of me?

Actually we had family friends in Massapequa when I was a kid. I remember going to Jones beach one summer. I figured that was probably too far away from your stomping grounds though.

....you hippie.

 

[smurphy]

It's strange how deep Nam cut into some of us. In away even more then WW II. At least WW II there was a plan to win and we did that. Nam pee's me off when I reflect some times my two friends a cousin all three lost. All the refugees we took in as a country. Were still all paying for that.
I'm sure not many here had 100's of them dropped off at your airport and told here take care of these people. Just a blow to your tax system, schools, no room to house them. And when you get first 100 settle in a year or two later here's another 50 to 100. And that went on for a few years. But yet they all had bucks. It was borrowed from our S/S system. You young guns I'm sure did not now any of this. But then I really get peed remembering our plan of capture re- treat and hold. But no win option thks mack. Just die and come home no go out and finish job win baby. No! And that plan was in place long before media started telling story or showing picture's of that brutal war. Out come was a poor plan in place.

Which branch were you in? What kind of job did you have over there?

Yeah, I grew up in an area that received a lot of Vietnamese. Just up the freeway was 'Little Saigon'. I remember when Cal-Trans decided to put a sign indicating the exit for 'Little Saigon'. It was immediately covered up by American flags. I think it's back up though. My attitude was watered down because I had a few Vietnamese friends. It sure wasn't easy for them - many were not with their families anymore and had to put up with all kinds of crap from other kids at school.

 

[kosar]

that`s it?.....lets talk about something meaningful TO YOU for a change......like,"what`s your favorite teletubby?"

I'll take that to mean that you don't want a discussion on the USSR-Afghan conflict?

And how derelict this admin was in studying the past?

Or even attempting to understand the religious/political machinations of that region?

I got it. Don't blame you at all.

 

[smurphy]

machinations

another really good word

 

[djv]

Smurphy most of our refugees were hill country mungs. Most from Laos.
Army my dad sign so I could get in at 17.5. Had a nice deal then 18 months active if you signed up. And promised of course to do a year reserves.
I had a MOS/Rifle Number and new the codes. Now Im happy when I remember my S/S #.
Explosives was my trick. Made mistake when asked did I have any special skills. I said boxing, baseball, & track. They didn't think I was funny. This DI said we can stand here till you get smart or I kick your ass. So I told them I new how to take out stumps with dynamite. And that was true from doing so on my Grandfathers farm. So that made me a expert.
That's enough about me. It's not that important. We got guys here that got stuck in a ton of chit. My stop there for 9 months was a secret at one time. And I really was more like a teacher. No big deal.