a quick poll--need some input

Agent 0659

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yes, it is quite 'feasible' that the government orchestrated 2 planes to crash into the towers and then blew the towers up with nukes, sent a missile into the pentagon and faked a crash in Pennsylvania and not one person of the thousands or tens of thousands that would have to be a part of it has come forward. Hey, at least the 'anonymous physicist' seems to have it all figured out!

There sure were a lot of fake relatives that had to be hired to mourn those that 'fake died' in the 'fake planes' that didn't crash in Washington and PA. They were good sports. Took the money and kept their mouths shut!

Yep, feasible.

Anyways, it's been fun. I've made a point to avoid posting in this thread for a reason, but the nuke stuff was just too much. Carry on, dumb and dumber.

I'm sure you will read this Kosar.......:shrug:


Friday, August 24, 2007

Brief Evidence of Nuclear bombs used at the WTC on 9/11/01

-- the proven existence of mini-nukes and micro-nukes

-- massive outward explosions as seen in videos of the towers' "collapses"

-- the vaporization of a large steel press in the WTC basement

-- the wrinkling into ?foil? of a steel/concrete door

-- the spherical blast wave destruction

-- the ?nuclear meteorite? (a chunk of WTC debris with 4 floors fused together)

-- the feeling of heat without fire of numerous witnesses

-- the burned or hanging skin (Felipe David), without fire, like so many Hiroshima victims

-- the responders? teeth later falling out (Tartaglia), like numerous American Army A-Bomb test veterans/victims

-- the missing, presumably vaporized, building contents

-- the missing, presumably vaporized 1157 people, unaccounted for at Ground Zero

-- the massive evidence of the China Syndrome of resultant nuclear reacting fragments causing the very high heat and molten steel witnessed (and photographed) by so many firefighter and responders at least six months after 9/11

-- the clothing discarding from rescue workers

-- the decontamination procedures of rescue workers

-- EMT Ondrovic?s account of Electromagnetic Pulse and instantaneous resultant car fire, and the door exploding into her as WTC 5,6, were being exploded from within, near her (explained here)

-- the micro- or nano-fine particle debris/dust size

-- much more, all indicate the federal regime set off numerous mini-nuclear bombs in the WTC on 9/11.



The witnesses for nukes that my articles have cited, included:

-- numerous WTC workers, including Felipe David,

-- numerous firefighters, including Bronx firefighter Joe O?Toole

-- EMT worker Patricia Ondrovic

-- numerous first responders, including Sgt. Matthew Tartaglia

-- WTC stationary engineer Pecoraro

-- fire engineering professor Dr. Barnett

-- top British and American Structural Engineers including Keith Eaton, PhD who were shown ?secret? molten steel photos denied to the rest of us

-- Leslie E. Robertson, {American] Structural Engineer (and partial designer of WTC)

-- Kenneth Holden NYC Commissioner

-- Thomas von Essen, NYC Fire Commissioner

-- policeman: many (or the vast majority of the 503 who were found)

-- other on-scene witnesses have?- for the moment?likely have been silenced, as detailed herein?- which is witness tampering, and worse.



Scientific data have also been cited, including ?

-- AVIRIS,

-- LIDAR,

-- seismic readings before ?collapse?,

-- Tritium finding (UCAL/Berkeley, and subsequent Tahil study)

-- the now exploding number of ?rare? CANCERS among responders, including thyroid, leukemia, and lymph cancer?all common among radiation victims

posted by spooked @ 7:48 AM

More Evidence & Testimony Indicating Nuclear Blasts, Nuclear Radiation, & China Syndrome at the WTC

By The Anonymous Physicist

Sgt. Matthew Tartaglia, a WTC responder, rescue worker, counselor, and FEMA consultant has made many remarkable statements related to the nuking of the WTC, and its China Syndrome aftermath.

Tartaglia, said he believes ?tactical nukes? took down the towers, and was responsible for the high temperatures weeks and months later (but does not know of the existence of the China Syndrome.) His statements include these: ??There were only certain parts of the site that you could not legally leave without going through decontamination.?They would tackle you and take your camera away. I watched people be tackled.? Most responders couldn?t go ?down in the garages?The rescue people ? when our clothes got so contaminated, we were told not to bring our clothes off that site. Don?t wear anything on the site you?re not prepared to leave there because it?s contaminated.? Note that ?discarding clothing?, and ?going through decontamination? are standard nuclear industry methods of dealing with radiation-exposed individuals. I do not know if other industries necessitate the use of these methods as well.

In 2005, Sgt. Tartaglia said, ?My teeth are falling out.? Like hanging skin resulting from a nuclear bomb, teeth falling out is a common symptom, months or years later, from nuclear radiation exposure. (Other factors can also possibly cause this, but are less likely.) Read about this Army veteran sent to Hiroshima, just days after it was nuked, to bulldoze roads. This was apparently much too soon to send Americans in to Hiroshima, but the PTB apparently cared as much about Americans, as they did about the Japanese women and children who were nuked. I note that after the July 16, 1945 Trinity ?A-Bomb? test, Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer and General Leslie Groves did not return to Ground Zero until five weeks later on Sept 11, 1945. Yes, there is 9/11 again. So man did not walk again on the first alleged Ground Zero which resulted from the ?Manhattan Project? until 9/11/45. Also read here about 3 veterans of atomic bomb tests in Nevada in the 1950?s who had their teeth fall out within a few years of their radiation exposure. [To quickly find the 3 veterans cited, search on ?teeth.?] That article also indicates that the gov?t lied to them as to the amount of radiation they had received. It is excerpted from the book, ?They Never Knew: The Victims of Atomic Testing?, [not read here] by Glenn Alan Cheney. See also ?The Plutonium Files? by Welsome, and the two books on the ?Making of the A-Bomb?, and the H-Bomb, ?Dark Sun?, both by Rhodes--all three read here.

But please read this (portions of the book, They Never Knew) in its entirety. It includes the following remarkable quote that may be very relevant to 9/11 research. A whistleblower came forward decades later about the actual radiation exposure Army personnel were subjected to. ?In 1982, a former Army medic, Van R. Brandon, admitted that he had been ordered to keep two sets of books. "One set was to show that no one received an exposure above the approved dosimeter reading," he said. "The other set of books was to show what the actual reading was. That set of books was brought in a locked briefcase attached to [an officer]'s wrist by a set of handcuffs every morning." Army personnel were denied medical benefits and disability because the regime publicly used the ?cooked? book. Do you think this same govt has gotten more or less evil, corrupt, and duplicitous, in the ensuing decades--and in a matter that relates to possibly irradiating tens of thousands of WTC workers, responders, and near-by residents.

The statements made by Mike Pecoraro, a WTC1 stationary engineer, and 9/11 survivor, are also remarkable. Pecoraro first knew something was wrong after observing flickering lights (EMP?), and then he ascended to the sub-basement C level, from below. He says, "There was nothing there but rubble, we're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press gone!" Pecoraro and a co-worker ?made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone?? As they ascended to the B Level, one floor above, they ?were astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up like a piece of aluminum foil" and lying on the floor. Now I assert that this too is a likely sign that a nuclear bomb went off. Perhaps only the multi-million degree temperature at the hypocenter, or neutron bombardment, is capable of doing that to that heavy steel door. The article continues: ?"They got us again,"? Mike told his co-worker, referring to the terrorist attack at the center in 1993. Having been through that bombing, Mike recalled seeing similar things happen to the building's structure.? This last statement from Pecoraro, I assert may be corroboration of nuclear engineer/geologist Phil Schneider?s statement that his inspection of the 1993 WTC explosion damage revealed to him that it was a nuclear blast, that may have gone awry, that is, was insufficient. (See my previous articles at wtcdemolition.blogspot.com.) Pecoraro states that as WTC2 ?collapsed,? ?there was a wind that came through the revolving doors that blew me [in the WTC1 lobby area] 100 feet to the far wall? Was this a nuclear pressure blast? You?ve probably seen the videos of A-bomb test sites, and resultant winds blowing down model houses, and heat causing fires. Like this and this.

More evidence of the likely nuking of the WTC, and China Syndrome aftermath, comes from no less than CNN?s Larry King Show. This show aired on 10/6/01, and was taped at the WTC, and a nearby burn unit, in the days prior to the air-date. The transcript is here.

Regarding the likely China Syndrome of high heat three weeks later, Thomas Von Essen, NYC Fire Commissioner, says, at the WTC, ??it's so hot, it's a really hot fire. The steel has been hot for three weeks now. Tremendous heat below, you know. It's -- the fire is not out down below.? From my earlier articles, you know that this went on for at least six months after 9/11.

At the Weill Burn Center at the Cornell Medical Hospital, Larry King interviews two women who received burns?without any fire--while trying to flee WTC1.

King: ?So, did you know you were on fire, in a sense??

Yang: ?No, I wasn't on fire, I think it was from the heat.?

Mary Jo: ?That's what we were told, it was the heat.?

So like Felipe David, like the Hiroshima survivors, these two women have no clue as to why their skin was burned. And who told them ?it was from the heat?? And if it was the doctors, who told them to say this to the patients? Note that King says ??fire in a sense.? I assert that that sense is not fire per se, but bombardment by radiation (thermal rays, gamma rays, neutrons) that can cause heat at the skin, and damage the skin--if the flux is large enough (relevant parameters include distance, shielding, intensity and type of radiation).

King also interviews burn victim Brian Reeves, a security guard starting his rounds in the lobby of one of the towers. Reeves says: ?I don't know when I got burned, but I just know when it knocked me over, there was -- there was something, the windows blew out. And when the windows blew out, I was on the ground, and like I said, there was a gust of wind. And when I opened my eyes, I seen a bright orange light.? Reeves, feeling heat on his back, takes his jacket off and falls on the ground while fleeing. There is the issue of whether his jacket is on fire or not. [Months later, the media would morph the ?bright orange light? into ?fireball.?] We must ask, did Reeves see the flash of, and receive the radiation, and air pressure blast from, a mini-nuke? Like the Hiroshima victims, he knows there had to be ?something? but he/they didn?t see what burned him/them. In this video, months after 9/11, Reeves then says ?the fire was this close to my face? (and holds his hand near his face). He did not say any such thing 2-3 weeks after 9/11, when interviewed by King.

Getting back to the King show, Dr. Roger Yurt of the Weill Burn Center says, ?[Reeve?s] worst burns were on his back, some burns up on his head. Burns on your arms also.? My possible interpretation is the following. Likely his jacket was not on fire (note the burns on his head), and the jacket likely shielded him from receiving even more radiation! The source of which was apparently behind him, as his burns were mostly on his back, but also on his head. But if the flux of radiation is high enough, a person and/or their clothes will catch fire from the radiation. Many Hiroshima victims were immediately killed and left in a charred state. The ?bright orange flash? he ?saw? may well have been a flux of radiation onto his retina. This kind of thing is again known from Army veterans of the nuclear blasts in Nevada in the 1950?s. In the worst cases, numerous Army personnel were forced to be, in ditches, only a football field away from an atomic bomb going off!

But when Brian tells his story months later, the reporter adds ?fireball? several times in her telling the story. Even the direction of the alleged fireball is cleverly, and falsely, inserted: ?? a fireball that roared down the elevator shaft.? In actuality, from numerous lobby, and sub-basement witnesses, a non-fireball, a likely nuclear detonation, occurred below the lobby, and its effects traveled UP a few floors?and not down some 80-90 floors from the likely conventional explosion above. In any case, Reeves did not observe what may, or may not, have been traversing the elevator shaft. It appears that in the telling of the 9/11 survivors? accounts, the MSM, and the 911 pseudo-truth media, are doing everything they can to add ?fire? and ?fireball? to the later retelling of numerous survivors? tales. And these survivors, who did not report ?fire? initially, and not knowing about such things as radiation-induced burns?without any fire?may later start including this in their own accounts, after doctors, or reporters, or hidden (or not so hidden) handlers either keep repeating the ?fire? and ?fireball? memes to them; or perhaps in some cases threatening/rewarding the survivors to start telling it the way their handlers demand. Never forget how FBI, or secret service agents, both on the scene in Dallas and later during depositions, threatened eyewitnesses to President Kennedy?s assassination, if they either said they clearly saw the Secret Service driver do it, or that there also were shots from the grassy knoll. Experts in eyewitness testimony tell us that the most accurate account is the closest in time to the event.

Remember how sub-basement, 9/11 burn victim Felipe David?s own accounting never mentions ?fire? or ?fireball,? but his alleged rescuer, William Rodriquez added fire or fireball to his accounting of David?s experiences. You will have to be the judge after reading survivors? accounts shortly after the event, and then months later after media/(govt?) interviews. This is a crucial point in the likely tampering of witnesses to a heinous crime. It is particularly odious as this may be ongoing from deep-cover intel assets in the major, AND internet ?truth?, media. But if the government/media had nothing to fear, or cover-up, why do they have to change so many burn victims? testimonies? Likewise they are frequently inserting ?plane hits? into statements, when the witness couldn?t possibly have seen that, even if the plane hits were real, instead of CGI.

I believe we are only scratching the surface regarding evidence of the use of mini-nukes on 9/11. Many fire and police witnesses fear losing their jobs, or their pensions. Beginning a month after 9/11, NYC Fire Commissioner von Essen?s office took depositions of 503 fire personnel, port authority police and EMT first responders. The report is 12,000 pages long and rarely read [and not read here]. It was deliberately excluded from the 911 Commission, and NIST, reports (scroll down at link). Could they be hiding evidence, not of the widely known explosions/controlled demolition, but specifically of the nuking of the towers and 3000 people? After von Essen?s 503 witness interviews, former CIA director Robert Woolsey, was inserted into this in 2002, as the NYC Fire Department's ?Anti-terrorism Consultant.? (It?s interesting that Wikipedia omits this job in his bio.) He issued a gag order, under threat of job loss and worse, down the ranks, under the guise of ?anti-terrorism.? This report is the one that includes EMT, Patricia Ondrovic? [See my articles on her here] heavily redacted, but remarkable interview. Recall my analysis demonstrated she witnessed Electromagnetic Pulse from a nuclear bomb causing flickering lights and making cars catch fire, for no apparent reason (?toasted cars?), right near her, and also jets shooting down other jets in the sky over the Hudson. Was Woolsey in charge of the redacting, of her, and other, testimony? I make the assertion that the very purpose of interviewing these 503 9/11 witnesses and responders was to find out who had witnessed evidence of the nuking of the WTC, and to then threaten, and silence them! Perhaps too many to kill, so first try to silence them! Here are the full 503 interviews. It would be good if some real 911 researcher could read them all or search for when portions are redacted. Note my scanning them indicates that numerous witnesses report ?explosions;? this was not reason enough for redaction!

There is other eyewitness (or should I say skinwitness) evidence, I believe of the heat, and radiation, wave which emanates outwards from a nuclear blast from numerous people who happened to be in the vicinity of the towers. This article states that ?John Axisa, who was getting off a commuter train to the World Trade Center, ?[after the alleged first plane hit]? Then there was a second explosion, and he felt heat on the back of [his] neck.? Note the timing of the ?second? explosion he heard--nothing from which was seen exiting the building--and yet he felt the heat at that exact time! This again could only be from a nuke, I assert. (The DEW hangout theorists always say their alleged DEW is cold.) Also at a 911 forum, a forum administrator named Quest noted that, ?I have an acquaintance who was a NYC cop on 9/11 when the second tower came down. He was 3 blocks away and told me there was "incredible heat" during the "collapse".? Heat indeed is the thing that would be felt furthest out from a nuclear blast. Read this account of physicist, Dr. Phillip Morrison 10 miles from the Trinity nuclear test site. He said, "Suddenly, not only was there a bright light, but where we were, 10 miles away, there was the heat of the sun on our faces.? [This was before the Sun came up.] So we see the similarity of statements, regarding heat during a nuclear blast, made by the Trinity witness, John Axisa, Quest?s policeman, Felipe David, and the three burn victims interviewed by Larry King. I have written that the nukes used on 9/11 were 1/100th to 1/1000th (each) of the intensity of the Trinity blast (with several per tower used, and only one per smaller WTC buildings) and we also have some shielding by the building. So the distance that radiation would be able to propagate would be vastly less than the 10 miles felt by Dr. Morrison (noted above), where the test was in the open air. Those in the towers, and nearby, would indeed be bombarded by the (unseen) radiation from a mini-nuke. Given these ideas from this physicist, who has taught physics at several universities, can Quest please further interview his cop friend, and get back to us here at comments, or via email to Spooked?

There has been at least one study published of WTC responders? medical problems treated on scene, from 9/14/01 to 11/20/1, at the WTC. This was published in May-June, 2005, of ?Prehospital and Disaster Medicine,? and was authored by: K.R. Peritt, W.L. Boal, and ?The Helix Group, Inc.? This third ?author? listed is a media corporation. (I did not know that corporations, per se, could now be authors?) This study related to a 10 week period whereby a Federal govt agency, the ?United States Public Health Service (USPHS), deployed Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMATs) and the Commissioned Corps to provide on-site, primary medical care to anyone who presented.? The authors conclusion admits, the ?USPHS visits probably were skewed to milder complaints when compared to analyses of employer medical department reports or hospital cases?? This appears to mean that the more serious cases went straight to the hospital. There were 9,349 on-site patient visits, which included some surrounding residents. There were 30 cases of nausea and vomiting. Let us look at skin conditions reported. There were 253 1st or 2nd degree burns, of which 107 (42%) were said to be related to equipment use. There is no word on what caused the other 58% of these burns. In addition, there are 132 cases of ?other? skin problems reported. There is not a single case of third degree burns (the most serious), and no comment on this lack! Were there people with more serious burns that went straight to the hospital, and thus are not counted? There are some curious statistics: ?Other injury or illness: 696 cases,? and ?Not classifiable as an injury or illness: 920 cases.? That?s quite a lot of cases that are either ?other? or ?not classifiable,? about 17%. Why such a high percentage? They?re not ?psychological? because they reported 78 cases of this. Is any medical condition being covered up? Did they test for radiation which is not mentioned? And what caused the 146 cases of burns that were not due to equipment handling? And how many people had third degree burns among the responders? Or is this classified information, related to what really was happening at the WTC, even after its demolition? This study is very troubling, and looks very ?doctored.?

In conclusion now, this article, and my previous articles archived at wtcdemolition.blogspot.com and wtc-ChinaSyndrome.blogspot.com indicate the following. The proven existence of mini-nukes and micro-nukes , the massive outward explosions seen, the vaporization of a steel press, the wrinkling into ?foil? of a steel door, spherical blast wave destruction, the ?nuclear meteorite,[parts of 4 storeys fused together at extreme temp.,]? the feeling of heat without fire of numerous witnesses, the burned or hanging skin--without fire, the responders? teeth later falling out, the vaporized building contents, the 1157 vaporized people, the massive evidence of the China Syndrome of resultant nuclear reacting fragments causing the very high heat and molten steel witnessed by many at least six months after 9/11, and photographed, the clothing discarding, and decontamination procedures, my detailed explanation of Ondrovic? account of Electromagnetic Pulse and resultant car fire, and the door exploding into her as WTC 5, 6, were being exploded from within, near her, the micro- or nano-fine particle size, and much more, all indicate the federal regime set off numerous mini-nuclear bombs in the WTC on 9/11. The witnesses that my articles have cited, included numerous WTC workers, numerous firefighters, EMT worker, responders, stationary engineer, fire engineering professor, top British and American Structural Engineers who have been shown ?secret? photos denied to the rest of us, NYC Commissioner, NYC Fire Commissioner, policeman, and others. Many (or the vast majority of the 503 who were found) other on-scene witnesses have?for the moment?likely been silenced, as detailed herein?which is witness tampering, and worse. Scientific data have also been cited, including ?AVIRIS, LIDAR, seismic readings before ?collapse?, Tritium finding (UCAL/Berkeley, and subsequent Tahil study), and the now exploding number of ?rare? cancers among responders, including thyroid, leukemia, and lymph cancer?all common among radiation victims. Other data, I have asserted has been altered, or is totally hidden--second long-delayed AVIRIS data set, and the lack of any further AVIRIS released.

I assert and accuse? J?Accuse??that the preponderance of this evidence demonstrates that the federal government of the United States of America did explode nuclear bombs inside most of the WTC buildings on 9/11/01. Furthermore, there was a resultant China Syndrome (through mechanisms detailed here by me previously) of nuclear reacting fragments releasing ionizing radiation, and high heat, for at least six months after 9/11, causing molten steel, and radiation exposure to thousands of responders and NYC residents. This was an act of treason, conspiracy, mass murder, genocide, and a ruse for waging war on innocent peoples around the world?crimes against humanity, and a ruse for blatantly eradicating American citizens freedoms and rights. The 9/11 WTC nuclear holocaust was not likely even the first time the American regime did this to its own citizens! Too few people know of this research into the American government?s probable nuking of American sailors in 1944.

The 9/11 perpetrators have used, and are using, limited hangouts and psyops to keep the people from knowing this. These hangouts, ultimately from the U.S. regime?s ?intelligence? agencies, include the bogus ?theories? of the official planes/fuel/gravity/pancaking nonsense, and also thermite, DEW, and Depleted Uranium [D.U.] (any uranium used on 9/11 at the WTC, and the China Syndrome aftermath, would have been highly enriched, not depleted). The observed American military helicopters and planes directing the initial explosions, and the final nuclear destruction prove that this was not done by Arabs, Muslims, Iranians, Israelis, Russians, or Chinese. As with the Kennedy Assassination, this massive set of actions, and massive cover-up, could only have been perpetrated by the so-called government of the United States, and not by any small ?rogue elements? therein. Complicit in the original act, and/or its cover-up, are all the branches of the federal government, its military, and intelligence agencies, and the Main Stream Media, and even much of the so-called alternative or internet media which is also laden with intel agents posing as ?truthers,? while pushing the hangouts listed above. The people of the world must get together, in what may be their final hour, and act literally to save themselves from extermination, from the handful of monsters that control humanity. Nature has demonstrated that individuals trained to be fearful can all come together, and overcome this fear, and act and defeat the small number who had previously seemed to be so invincible and bloodthirsty. We are indeed likewise in the jaws of these monsters, and have been for a long time; but likewise again, it is still possible to break free, and be free. We must try. Like this last video, there are so many more of us, than of them.
_________
_________
 

Niederton

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funny thing, Niederton, victor and lisa g. used to run this site called Babylon and i used to submit F and NF to them and they were very encouraging and used a lot of my stuff ... then i lost contact with them once they went another direction, i.e. political ... so when i started investigating 9-11 i found they had started wingtv etc and called victor and lisa a number of times and they really helped send me in the right directions, including hook ups with vinnie sammartino and Vyzygoth, killtown, jeff shure (the canadian guy who phones people on 9-11 lies) and many more ... all these people have been great

its ironic how kind hearted and intelligernt these people are, unlike the nut cases who try to bully others minus facts on 9-11 ... its funny, the people who actually research this stuff arent the mean-spirited ones, its always the uninformed who are scared of the truth and rely on nursery school ad hominems

take care
gregg

Interesting. I know about wingtv, but but will have to check out some of these others, thanks!
 

pt1gard

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agent,

lets not forget the biggest hero of 9-11, william rodriguez, who testified that there was an explosion in the basement seconds b4 the plane hit the tower he was working in .... and of course the kean commission refused to include any of his eye witness facts as he saved dozens of lives, carrying them out of the hellhole scripted by the PTB ...

its all so laughable, these stooges who debate this prove they have researched nothing by even arguing ... there is absolutely nothing to show the gov. has told the truth anywhere ...

then the other jocular thread using PM as a source, that stigmatizes anyone as a neophyte, their slipshod research has been debunked everywhere .... earlier in this thread i linked the goyette radio clip with the PM spokesman who was undressed and made to look like a complete moron ...

as ive said 1000xs, all one has to do is devote 1/100th of the time one does to all the ways we spend wasting time and theres no way not to come away realizing he'd been duped by the neocons
 
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Jabberwocky

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I urge everyone to take the time to watch this. It is by far and away the best piece on 9-11 that I have seen. Please take the time and judge for yourself. Thanks for posting it pt.
 

marine

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?I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building??--Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory

Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking out of context...

I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?

A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.

I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Gregory_Stephen.txt

Let me guess why they left that important part out..

?t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'."--Paramedic Daniel Rivera

SO WE WERE PRETTY MUCH-MOST OF THE WORKERS WERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING. I LIKE SAID, I DON'T KNOW IF ITS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER. MOST OF THEM WERE IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT BUILDING. BUT I DIDN'T FEEL SAFE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO I WAS SCARED. EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN. SO I PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE. I WOULD SEE TRIAGE, BUT I WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS.

THEN THAT'S WHEN-I KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER, AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED.

Q: HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN?

A: THAT NOISE .IT WAS NOISE.

Q: WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE. AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS-DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR "POP, POP, POP, POP, POP"? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT-BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN I HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE, THAT'S WHEN I SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110035.PDF

First, notice he and everyone else was scared of TERRORISTS. What do TERRORIST DO? So it's not unreasonable for someone who is thinking TERRORIST to hear the sound of huge concrete floors falling one on top of the other to think "BOMB" first. As I said, No one has ever seen an airplane hit buildings constructed like this and the collapse of this odd combination.

?There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse." --Chief Frank Cruthers

there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. it appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/Cruthers.txt

And why wouldn't floors falling around the building NOT APPEAR to be an EXPLOSION... :blink:

"I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.? --Paramedic Kevin Darnowski

Again, just more sounds like explosions as floors ram into each other. Note he doesn't say he SAW three explosions.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110202.PDF

And here is the outright LIE...

? we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down.? -- Firefighter Craig Carlsen

Note where these liars put the "...."

Now for the REAL quote...

I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110505.PDF

With that alone I should rest my case. ;) These CT sites are dishonest.

Here is the other lie, they split up those quotes to make it seem like there are more people hearing explosions than there really are. You have paramedic Daniel Rivera's interview split in two and Stephen Gregory's interview split in two, as if there are different people hearing different explosions. They flood you with quotes hoping you won't notice. What other reason would they have for splitting them up???

?Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." -- Captain Karin Deshore

MY BACK WAS TOWARDS THE BUILDING, TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP.

GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS, WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS, "IT'S BLOWING".

I HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON. I NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE A SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE. SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN AIRPLANE. IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND, NOT A THUNDER CAN'T EXPLAIN IT, WHAT IT WAS. ALL I

KNOW IS -- AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN MY BACK. I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT. YOU HAD TO BE THERE. ALL I KNOW IS -- HAD TO RUN BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION.

...I WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I THOUGHT

IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION I DIDN'T KNOW THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING

SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT. INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH. THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE. THE POPPING SOUND, AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE. THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.

It's time to see a transformer explosion.

http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electric-Transformer-Explosion

All these buildings had transformers and transformer vaults.

SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND I TOLD EVERYBODY IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES, STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED, IM GOING IN THE WATER.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110192.PDF

?I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion.? -- Captain Jay Swithers

When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up the tank, you could hear a loud rumble. Somebody said run for your life. I turned to see who was yelling "run".

At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

But one thing that did happen was an ambulance pulled up which was very clean. So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC
/9110172.PDF

First he heard the rumble. Not the so called "Explosion" which he never saw. Then he thought he heard an explosion because he saw the debris falling away from the building. He had TERRORIST on his mind and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bomb. You don't have to be a psychologist here.

Fire officer Paul Isaac Jr. asserted that 9-11 was an inside job last September 11 at ground zero where mourners and protesters were gathered; ?I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it?s an inside job; and the firemen know it too?, said Isaac.

"there were definitely bombs in those buildings,? Isaac added that ?many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they?re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ?higher-ups? forbid discussion of this fact.? --Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman Paul Isaac

Paul Isaac never said anything of the kind. Another Conspiracy Theorist deception.

A video is shown on just about every conspiracy web site which shows a few fireman discussing what they heard and saw.


fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out ?
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det?
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom?
In the context of reading it off a conspiracy site, this may sound like damning evidence. They are saying ?detonated? and ?they had planned to take down a building?. They even say ?Boom? to describe the sound. But if you hear the other things they?re saying, their body language and context outside the conspiracy theory setting, something else emerges. Before or after every description is ?As if?. ?As if they had planned to take down a building?. ?It was as if as if they had detonated?. They also use body language to show it was the sound of the floors crashing into one another.



boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom- (hand moves down)

boom?

This could be just as powerful evidence of pancaking as the use of explosives. But the real evidence isn?t so much examining the video as examining the actions taken, or NOT taken, by the NYC Fire Department after the event. The NYC Fire Department hasn?t rallied its members to force an investigation into the possible murder of over 300 of its members. Some sites offer an explanation of this saying there was a gag order placed on the Fire Department. The only place you will find this is on conspiracy theory sites. No mention from main stream press about the hundreds if not thousands of fireman on the scene not being allowed to talk.

A glaring example of picking and choosing what to focus on is the interview with Mary Baldizzi... They point to a BBC article that says

The jet fuel caused the fire to spread so far and so fast that it effectively cut the building into two. For the 6,000 people below where the plane had hit the staircases still offered a means of escape, but for the 950 caught above the point of impact and the fire there was no way out.

The argument is made that towers fell because of separate detonations. As proof, they offered the case of Mary Baldizzi who supposedly had escaped the 104th floor of the World Trade Center's North Tower by elevator. Thus, the only way she could have escaped via elevator was if the core was intact at least to the 104th floor.

When I watched the video, I thought, if there had been a survivor from above the impact zone in Tower 1, it would have been widely broadcast. So, logically, I searched online for either confirmation or repudiation. I found neither. What I did find was the repeated use of Ms. Baldizzi's story as evidence in various alternative theories (i.e., other than fire) for the collapse of the towers.

Returning to the original video, I watched it several more times. After listening closely to Ms. Baldizzi's interview, I came to the conclusion that Mary Baldizzi was not on the 104th floor of the North Tower (WTC1) but was on the 104th floor of the South Tower (WTC2) and that this was a misrepresentation of her escape as having been from WTC1. Here are the reasons I came to this conclusion:

1. Although the newswomen began the interview stating that Mary Baldizzi had come down the elevators from the 104th floor and was in the "first tower when it was struck," at no time during the interview does Ms. Baldizzi state that she was in the North Tower. In addition, none of the graphics that accompany the interview claim that Ms. Baldizzi was in the North Tower. When Ms. Baldizzi is asked if she felt the impact, she says "Oh yeah." But the effects she describes -- feeling the heat, experiencing the shaking, hearing the explosion -- are all effects experienced by those who were in the South Tower on the floors adjacent to the impact zone (see:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-02-choices-usat_x.htm ). If she had been in the North Tower when it was hit then she would have described the impact in much less casual terms.

2. Around 5 minutes and 20 seconds into the interview, the interviewers ask about Ms. Baldizzi's coworkers. Ms. Baldizzi's states that she does not know the whereabouts of her fellow employees and proceeds to state, around 5:55 of the interview, that she has no way of contacting them other than to "call [the] main office in Illinois." Now, the offices on the 104th floor of the North Tower were occupied exclusively by Cantor Fitzgerald, while offices on the 104th floor of the South Tower were occupied by Sandler O'Neill (see: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html). Cantor Fitzgerald does not have a main office in Illinois (see: http://www.cantor.com/contact/). Sandler O'Neill, on the other hand, does have a central office in Chicago (see: http://www.sandleroneill.com/). This suggests that Ms. Baldizzi was an employee of Sandler O'Neill (in the South Tower) rather than Cantor Fitzgerald (in the North Tower).

3. Finally, and conclusively, at 6:15 in the interview Ms. Baldizzi begins a discussion about what she and her coworkers did when they exited the building. She clearly says: "There were police officers, thank God, that were aiming us towards Liberty St. because we stupidly walked towards One World Trade because we didn't know; we had no idea it was a terrorist attack." Now, if Ms. Baldizzi had been in One World Trade Center (i.e., the North Tower) there is no way she would have described her egress as "towards One Word Trade" because no matter in which direction she walked she would have been going away from One World Trade. This point proves, beyond any doubt, that Ms. Baldizzi exited from the South Tower and that the mistaken announcement at the beginning of the interview that she was in the North Tower was just one of the miscommunications and misunderstandings in the chaos of those early days.

I concluded that Ms. Baldizzi exited Tower 2 at the same time many others in the building did: after the North Tower was hit but before the South Tower was hit. If she was "dragged" into the elevator within seconds after the first tower was hit, and if the elevator ride took about 4 minutes, she would've been out of the building well before the South Tower was hit.



USA Today

As you can see the South Tower core was not damaged as much because of large, heavily constructed elevator equipment which protected it anyway.

There were two freight elevators that serviced the 104th floor.

Cars #6 and #50 serviced the 104th floor, lobby and basement levels.

----------

? Car #5: B1-5, 7, 9-40, 44
? Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 *
? Car #17: B1-1, 41, 43-78
? Car #48: B1-7, 9-40
? Car #49: B1-5, 41-74
? Car #50: B6-108 *
? Car #99: 107-110

There were two express elevators to Windows on the World (and related conference rooms and banquet facilities) in WTC 1 and two to the observation deck in WTC 2.

pg 34 (adobe pg 72)

NIST NCSTAR 1-7 (Draft)

Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communications (Draft)

There were firemen who radioed in after being stuck in the elevator moments before the south tower collapsed.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/wtcaudio/wtcaudio8.html

So there were elevators working in the south tower AFTER the impact. But what's important here is that the interview is being taken out of context. A theme which seems to run strong with these conspiracy theorists.

Thanks to Scott S Coastal and Drval.
Stupid.jpg
 

pt1gard

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BACK FROM RETREAT TO QUOTE NIST OR FEMA, GREAT SHILL STUFF, MARINE ....


IRONIC how Fema had their troops flown in on monday b4 9-11 ...

as far as your drivel you just posted, ask yourself this: if it was so hot to collapse the towers, such and inferno (over 2000 degrees to get the steel pliable), how did FDNY CHIEF orio palmer phone from the point of the fires only seconds b4 the collapse?--saying the fires were small and could be put out in 2 hours, and howd did so many others later on after the kerosene fuel quickly burned off sit by open windows without distress then the whole shebang collapse seconds later? PLEASE ANSWER THAT SIMPLE QUESTION?

the obvious answer is that the PTB needed those towers to collapse to scar and traumatize the sheeple so that they could march into the middle east and get their already in the works patriot act rolling ... oh yeah, funny how Bush was taking cipro on 9-10 too :mj07:


you cant have it both ways on the heat of the towers, marine, well i guess you can if you are in the marines and have to go thru your backdoor indoctrinations ;)
 
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marine

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The story...

Chief Palmer had reached the fire on the 78th floor of the South Tower, and devised a plan to put it out. He describes "two isolated pockets of fire", and requests two lines (hoses) to knock it down.

If the 78th floor was a ?raging inferno? like the government would have us believe, then Palmer wouldn?t have gotten as far as he did, and certainly wouldn't have been able to put it out with two fire hoses.
Loose Change 2nd Edition

Our take...

The claim is based on recordings of radio messages from FDNY Chief Orio J Palmer, who was climbing the south stairway in WTC2. Here?s the relevant portion: Palmer is ?Battalion Seven Chief?:

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha."

"Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"

Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."

Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."

Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."

Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/firefighter-tape-excerpts.htm

It seems Palmer did only see ?two isolated pockets of fire? at this point, although whether there may have been fire elsewhere on the floor isn?t clear. So does this prove the fires were much weaker than claimed? Well, no. Not even close.

NIST do not claim that the 78th floor was a ?raging inferno?, for instance. In fact the NIST fire reconstruction report says ?there was only light fire activity observed on the 78th floor?, page 109). No surprise: pictures in the same document clearly show this floor was at the base of the fire-affected area..





The report also contains a simulation of temperatures on the various floors. This gives you an idea of how NIST believe floor 78 compared to the other floors in terms of upper layer temperatures at the 45 minute point (close to when Palmer arrived on 78) for scenario D (the worst case for that floor).

















Floor 78

















Floor 79

















Floor 80






















Floor 81

















Floor 82

















Floor 83







See the NIST document for an explanation of this. We see no claim here that Floor 78 was a ?raging inferno?, then: that looks like a straw man argument. In reality the ?two isolated pockets of fire? comment relates to an area that NIST concede had ?only light fire activity?, and tells us nothing whatsoever about what was happening in the floors above.

There are similar deceptive use of quotes elsewhere, too, for example in the case of Brian Clark:

Some defenders of the official story have claimed that the fires were indeed very big, turning the buildings into "towering infernos." But all the evidence counts against this claim, especially with regard to the south tower, which collapsed first. This tower was struck between floors 78 and 84, so that region is where the fire would have been the biggest. And yet Brian Clark, a survivor, said that when he got down to the 80th floor: "You could see through the wall and the cracks and see flames . . . just licking up, not a roaring inferno, just quiet flames licking up and smoke sort of eking through the wall." Likewise, one of the fire chiefs who had reached the 78th floor found only "two isolated pockets of fire."
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/04/338179.shtml

The 80th floor wasn?t the worst affected by fire, at least later on, as we can see above. But where?s the evidence that he was actually referring to that floor? Here?s Clark?s account as told to the BBC:

BRIAN CLARK: So we started down that stairway and we only went three floors. There was a group of seven of us, myself and six others. We met two people that had come up from the floor 80, a heavy set woman and, by comparison, a rather frail male. She said stop, stop, you've got to go up and she laboured up to join us moving very slowly, she was such a big woman. She said you've got to go, you've got to go up, you can't go down, there's too much smoke and flame below.

NARRATOR: Clark then heard cries for help coming from an office nearby. It was banker Stanley Praimnath. Clark pulled him free and together they carried on down the tower, but their progress was hampered by one of the things that was meant to protect them: the fireproof drywall.

BRIAN CLARK: Drywall had been blown off the wall and was lying on, you know propped up against the railing here and, and we had to move it, shovel it aside. You could see through the wall and the cracks and see flames just, just licking up, not a roaring inferno, just quiet flames licking up and smoke sort of eking through the wall.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/worldtradecentertrans.shtml

He started on floor 84, got to floor 81, heard cries for help and freed Stanley Praimnath. They ?carried on down?, then ran into an obstruction, but he doesn?t say on which floor. Fortunately there?s another account that delivers the information we need:

I guess it took me 30 seconds to a minute to get most of the stuff away from the trapped person, until this last thing we couldn't move. That's when I encouraged him to do the jumping. I reached over the top and I looked at him and I said, ``You must jump. You've got to jump out of there.'' He jumped once and I couldn't connect with him. He jumped again and I grabbed him. I pulled him over the top and we fell in a heap and hugged. I said, ``I'm Brian,'' and he said, ``I'm Stanley,'' and we made our way back to the stairs.

They started down:

Some of the firewall, or maybe it had come from ceilings, I don't know, had blown in on the stairs. Sheets were lying, or leaning on angle up against the railing. So we had to move those. Some were lying on the stairs. Water seemed to be dribbling out somewhere, I don't know where, and making the stairs wet. And it was running sometimes on this drywall that was lying flat on the stairs making it like a slide. So we had to be very careful. We were holding onto the railing, hand-over-hand, kind of going down those slippery areas because we were standing on slippery drywall.

Somewhere around the 77th floor, the stairway walls were cracked, and you could look through the cracks and see flames. They were just quietly licking up, not a roaring inferno. And there was some smoke there, but again I think the stairs were pressurized, pushing the air out so we had less smoke in the stairway than you might imagine.
New York Times "Accounts from the South Tower"

?Somewhere around the 77th floor?, which as we?ve seen, is well below the most affected area of the building. The fact that Clark saw no ?inferno? there tells us nothing that we didn?t know already.

idiot.jpg
 

kosar

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yeah, kosar, you have done a lot of research ... what dont you get about hiding information on the uss liberty, gulf of tonkin, pearl harbor, operation northwoods, gladio, ajax, 7/7/05 LONDON BOMBINGS, or gunnings of mlk and jfk and vincent foster, Boystown sex scandals to white house, mena arkansas,

THERE ARE 50XS MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THOSE FALSE FLAGS THAN 9-11 THAT NEVER CAME FWD.... what do you know about those things i just listed ... are you like my harvard-bred neighbor who had never heard of one of the above, or knew true facts on the well-documented assassinations?

Listen wingnut. Just because you started getting interested in all these events a whole two months ago doesn't mean that others haven't been well aware of them for many years and know both sides of the story of each of them.

Each of those 'events' that you mention are unique and each have varying levels of duplicity, from 'none' to 'a lot.' You can't just throw out every big event and paint it with the same brush.

Not everything is a conspiracy orchestrated by our bogeyman government.

What's ironic is that on balance i'm probably more cynical than you, but i'm also much more capable of using common sense in conjunction with cogent facts to seperate fact from fiction. My brain can allow for shades of grey, while yours is full speed ahead to black and white. You remind me of sponge in that way, but I digress.

I realize that you found a new toy and I think that is great. I'm sure some legitimate history knowledge actually rubbed off on you while you have waded through your fringe websites, so that is a plus.

You even picked up a follower along the way. Before you came along with this thread, Agent wouldn't know the Gulf of Tonkin from his Tonka toys. He thought Mena was what was happening when a woman bled 'down there' once a month. Now look at him! A full-fledged conspiracy expert!

Yes, agents brain is about as useful as silly putty, but you take what you can get in your line of 'work.'

Keep probing! Let's get to the bottom of this thing.
 
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THE KOD

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Thanks kosar

when I read in ARs thread that one of their theories is that the goverment took all the people out of the planes that hit the towers, loaded them in the plane that crashed in Pa. and then shot it down to get rid of the evidence.

That just took me over the edge.

I wish he would just shut the fawk up already.

This thread belongs in the dumpster.
 
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pt1gard

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thanx kosar

so youre down with the kean commission, lets just get that down on the blotter?

nice try, but you obviously know nothing in depth on the topic and parrot official lies ... but thats ok, i guess i have my toy, meaning facts, and you say they found planes at the pentagon and shanksville? is that what you are saying?

you believe the rabbit hole of the box cutters attending usa military flight schools? just curious what do you believe ... you are laughable, you dont address any of these, wingnut senior

you attack the messenger and cant answer over 1000 questions i can offer and yet you back the neoncons and have nothing to bring to this thread to support your viiews :shrug:
 

marine

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thanx kosar

so youre down with the kean commission, lets just get that down on the blotter?

nice try, but you obviously know nothing in depth on the topic and parrot official lies ... but thats ok, i guess i have my toy, meaning facts, and you say they found planes at the pentagon and shanksville? is that what you are saying?

you believe the rabbit hole of the box cutters attending usa military flight schools? just curious what do you believe ... you are laughable, you dont address any of these, wingnut senior

you attack the messenger and cant answer over 1000 questions i can offer and yet you back the neoncons and have nothing to bring to this thread to support your viiews :shrug:

1538133.jpg


Asking over 1000 questions does not make you smarter or more informed than anyone. It means you just don't get it.
 

pt1gard

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ps ill take my guys, agent, mav, sponge, jabberwocky, niederton over the closed minded, traumatized non-thinking cadre that suddenly re-appeared in this thread after one had nuts to put his toe back in the water ...

funny, i know all those guys i listed above from years on the net, phone calls, and IMs, and they are all awesome people who actually care about the country enough to question things and arent intimdated by uneducated bullies:00hour
 

Agent 0659

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Thanks kosar

when I read in ARs thread that one of their theories is that the goverment took all the people out of the planes that hit the towers, loaded them in the plane that crashed in Pa. and then shot it down to get rid of the evidence.

That just took me over the edge.

I wish he would just shut the fawk up already.

This thread belongs in the dumpster.

Oh gee willickers Scotty you are right and so is Kosar. Of course our Gov't is on the straight and narrow, dam, what was I thinking? Bush and his cronies would have no reason to want to invade Iraq, and they would never perpetrate such a dastardly deed on their own people.

images


Is this you?

images


images


Sheeple is a term of disparagement, a portmanteau created by combining the words "sheep" and "people"; a reference to herd mentality. It is often used to denote persons who acquiesce to authority, and thus undermine their own human individuality. The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by authority figures, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political or religious sense.


Stop me if any of this looks or sounds familiar.
 

marine

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ps ill take my guys, agent, mav, sponge, jabberwocky, niederton over the closed minded, traumatized non-thinking cadre that suddenly re-appeared in this thread after one had nuts to put his toe back in the water ...

funny, i know all those guys i listed above from years on the net, phone calls, and IMs, and they are all awesome people who actually care about the country enough to question things and arent intimdated by uneducated bullies:00hour

I always knew that Neiderton's involvement with this thread and entrance to Madjacks was linked directly to you.
costello_keystone_cops.jpg
 

marine

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Sheeple is a term of disparagement, a portmanteau created by combining the words "sheep" and "people"; a reference to herd mentality. It is often used to denote persons who acquiesce to authority, and thus undermine their own human individuality. The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by authority figures, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political or religious sense.


Stop me if any of this looks or sounds familiar.

It swings both ways donkey. See, the self proclaimed "searchers for truth" idolize and elevated people within their ranks as well. You hang on every word from the Loose Change directors, from the not so scientific scientists, from the philosphers who suddenly became science experts... you look to them as authority figures just as the rest of the population look at elected officials as authority figures and listen to them.

In order to keep things simple, people who do not think that the towers were brought down by preplanned explosive devices can be called sheeple.
People who believe that explosives brought down the towers can be called donkeys. this way we can make sure we are throwing insults at the proper groups without confusion.

Donkey_xing_thumb_640.jpg
 

THE KOD

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thanx kosar

so youre down with the kean commission, lets just get that down on the blotter?

nice try, but you obviously know nothing in depth on the topic and parrot official lies ... but thats ok, i guess i have my toy, meaning facts, and you say they found planes at the pentagon and shanksville? is that what you are saying?

you believe the rabbit hole of the box cutters attending usa military flight schools? just curious what do you believe ... you are laughable, you dont address any of these, wingnut senior

you attack the messenger and cant answer over 1000 questions i can offer and yet you back the neoncons and have nothing to bring to this thread to support your viiews :shrug:
.................................................................

now you done it, you have called out kosar.

Pity the fool in you
 
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