animal rights

[MadJack]

Is it wrong to perform tests on animals? Are there any exceptions to be considered? Do we live in a society that places animals on too high of a pedestal? Debate away!

(i took this from a non-sports related forum. it brought out some interesting responses. let's see what happens here

)

 

[Subagoto]

I draw the line at household pets myself. No particular reason. Your question did remind me of the this Rick Reilly column. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/

 

[KotysDad]

I am against it on domestic animals, but feel free to poke, prod and do whatever to the "animals" that serve no useful purpose to society other than testing purposes. I am referring to things like rats. They just carry disease and are filthy rodents. If they can be used to better mankind, then I am all for it.

 

[MadJack]

here's some sick shit. has anybody heard of anything like this in your area?

about 2 years ago a chinese carry-out near here was busted when they were caught with frozen cats in their freezers. i think they were fined and forced to shut down for a specific period of time, ordered by the court. then, they were caught AGAIN about 6 months after they reopened.

all i know is that they're out of business. i don't know what happened or if they were prosecuted or what.

now, ANYTIME i'm eating chinese, i have to wonder. ugh!

 

[SixFive]

This is a very sore subject for me. I'll try to lend a few of my views in an objective manner with quotes at the bottom.

Animals have no rights. If choosing between the welfare of a person and an animal, I would hope the person is always chosen. I believe it is wrong for people to be cruel to animals, but cruelty certainly does not include hunting, fishing, animal research, and animal testing.


Some of the organizations that promote themselves as helping animals but whose real goals are for every person to be a vegetarian and to equate every bug, rat, and whale as equal to a human are PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and Fund for Animals. If u ever get something in the mail from the above make sure u know what they stand for before u donate to them. U can check out www.peta.org www.nofishing.net (Jack, u should like this one

)www.milksucks.com www.fundforanimals.org or many of their other crazy sites.

I have compiled just a few quotes that I thought were rather apalling.


Ingrid Newkirk ,PeTA (Washingtonian Magazine, Aug, 1986) - "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." (This is the quote that sickened me the most. Imagine, comparing your son to a pig!!)

"Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughter houses." Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA (Washington Post, Nov. 13, 1983) (Comparing chickens to the holocaust???? WOW, what brazen disregard for human life)

Your child is dying of diabetes. The only way to get insulin is to kill a lamb. Do you kill the lamb to get insulin for your child? "I would not knowingly have an animal hurt for me, or my children, or anything else." Cleveland Amory, Fund for Animals (Larry King Show, Oct. 29, 1987)

People should not use bug sprays. "Only a few of the million you kill would have bitten you." Michale J. Fox (Returning to Eden) (LMFAO at this BRAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what an idiotic statement)

"Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the earth." Ingrid Newkirk, Founder, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals [PeTA] (Readers Digest, June 1990)


There are many more quotes like this at the following site. The site does have some religious backing to debunk the statements as well, but u can also look solely at the quotes to see how stupid these people are.
http://www.godeatsredmeat.com/ethics.htm

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It's far better to be LUCKY than good.

 

[Subagoto]

I am surprised PETA is not all bent out of shape about those guys killing that shark after it bit off the kids arm in Florida?

 

[marine]

ooooooooooooooo you poooo pooo wittle wabbit. Rather than put food on my table, i think i will let you scamper off into the woods so that you can be eaten by a big bad wolf rather than me.
Should PETA prosecute the wolf now?

The animal kingdom is a giant pyramid/food chain. With all of us sitting on top. A lot of these people dont realize that. They can skew any idea/theory/statement to stand for what they want to promote their ideas. Once in awhile you can see one of these bear huggers protesting the cutting down of forests... only to go home to a house built out of... yup... wood.
what about clothes? do they not wear anything made of wool? hell, what about driving around in your car with the nifty all leather interior? where did that come from?

What really irks me is that some of the tree huggers will actually go around and HURT PEOPLE in order to prove their point about animal cruelty.

Hell, there are places that breed animals for the slaughter, those animals dont know any better, shit, they probably wouldnt even be around in the first place if the breeder/owner hadnt created them and spent the money on raising them in the first place.

What good is having opposable thumbs if we are going to capitalize on it?

Do these same tree huggers go to the "outback" and press these beliefs on the wild tribal men? helllllllllllll NO. why? cuz they would get their cans kicked up and down the forests. A lot of these clowns are only bitching so they can hear themselves.

 

[marine]

Pets:

Here is a tricky subject. Who is really the 'master' in these relationships?

-People go out of their way to feed their pets on a daily basis

-People spend a LOT of money on their pets to make them look better (they have plastic surgery for animals now believe it or not), haircuts, groomings, massages, all that crap

-People sometimes feed their pets what humans normally eat... on a daily basis.

-People take their pets for walks, and buy it treats and toys.

-all the animal does is lay around and amuse itself with toys all day.

who is in charge here? are we actually servants to our pets?

 

[marine]

Originally posted by MadJack:
here's some sick shit. has anybody heard of anything like this in your area?

about 2 years ago a chinese carry-out near here was busted when they were caught with frozen cats in their freezers. i think they were fined and forced to shut down for a specific period of time, ordered by the court. then, they were caught AGAIN about 6 months after they reopened.

all i know is that they're out of business. i don't know what happened or if they were prosecuted or what.

now, ANYTIME i'm eating chinese, i have to wonder. ugh!

Jack, I used to eat cat and dog all the time when i was in the Far East. Its a staple in their diet just like cows are to us over here. They dont have the room or the climate to herd cattle over there... and the meat has got to come from somewhere.

Of course, selling cats over here, under the guise of it being actual grade A beef is another thing. But it really isnt that weird to be munching down on a hunk o cat on a stick for dinner.

 

[visionary]

u gotta be f***** kidding me......

 

[aldabra]

Was on vacation in China back in April spent
two weeks on tour of Bejing,Shanghai,and Xian..did see packaged dog meat for sale in
Bejing sundry store...the thai restaurant next to our hotel in Bejing had "pigeon" on the menu.Shanghai metro area was totally
devoid of any birds,our Bejing tour guide
commented that the people of southern China
will eat "anything"

Really an eye openning trip,asked before we
ate;did try cuttlefish,turtle,and jellyfish
tentacles..the jellyfish was nasty,it was
funny though, we had an aussie in our tour
group...he ate all the unwanted jellyfish
from our table of 8....he was in construction
from Melbourne area...got my respect

Sweet and sour dishes are strictly an American invention no such things in Bejing.
.

 

[visionary]

i've seen plenty of documentaries on this subject.....familiar with those whole routine......it just proves how much more civilized and ahead we are than those communist bastards!!!!

 

[Its Gravy]

I sent this email directly to PETA

humans sit atop the food chain
fish have a primitive central nervous system
humans are omnivores
Peta is pretty lame

damn, when i sent it i had a typo in (primitave) ---oops it...now i know ill hear about it..from them how i am uneducated , blah, blah, blah, i guess i shouldnt try to type so fast

 

[dawgball]

I don't see why eating a cat is any different than eating a cow. I am very vocal about cruelty to animals, but I am for using animals to test for advancement purposes. Do I think we should use them to test the newest makeup? NO. Do I think we should use them for cancer/AIDS research? Resoundingly YES. Living in Atlanta, I see the egocentric organizations always making a fuss against Emory Universtiy's testing facilities. It's unbelievable how high and mighty the protesters (sp?) think they are.

HBO had a special on animal cruelty around the world a couple of years back. It was horrific. I am sure some of ya'll saw that. Goats being dropped out of three story windows for fun. Live cats being dropped in a bat a boiling oil before coooking. It was disgusting. Those are the incidents that I am against.

I am also against hunters using high powered rifles when not hunting big game. I am so sick of listening to people about how great of a hunter they are because they clipped a deer from 200 yards. Way to go champ! Let's go beat up a two year old while we're at it. They have as much chance of winning. Long rifles, bow and arrow--that's take skill because you have to be at closer range, and a much more accurate shot (plus extra preparation). Not that I do either one. When I killed my first deer, I killed my last. Don't get me wrong. I am not against hunting because I'll suck down deer tenderloins until I can't move, but I think it should be a fairer fight.

Nobody says it better than Chris Rock.

"Don't eat no red meat, no, don't eat no green meat, okay. What you talking about? Yo, if you're one of the chosen few people on this earth that are lucky enough to get your hands on a steak, yu better bite the shit out if it."

"You know before there was Reynolds Wrap, before there was refrigerators, before there was freezers, before there was seasonings, a pork chop might kill ya. That's right one chop. But times have changed. That's right. Now we, we got freezers, we got Saran Wraps, we got Reynolds Wraps, now a pork chop is your friend. That's right if you're starving a pork chop will save your life. Shit, I'll eat a pig's ass if they cook it right."

"Too much food in American man. We got so much food in America, we're allergic to food, allergic to food. Hungry people ain't allergic to shit. Do you think anybody in Ruwanda has got a lactose intolerance?"

Just keepin' it real!

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Sic 'em
dawgball

 

[AzRusty]

I love cats!

They taste just like chicken!

AzRusty

 

[JT]

So, at the McDonalds in China is it Chicken or Cat McNuggets?

 

[aldabra]

on the last day of our two week trip,we had
Big Macs at a Shanghai "mickey d" after total immersion in local cusine it was like
prime rib at Bellagio's buffet...it equated
to a buck and a half..local salary was $50-$100.00 a month.....our hotel bellboy saw
me bring them to room and in speaking to him he was absolutely amazed the price was same
as U.S. Mcdonalds..

 

[loophole3]

i have so many thoughts on this subject i hardly know where to start. my maternal grandfather was a farmer with nine kids. not a rich man at all, and feeding all those kids, and the farm help, and other relatives, and whoever else needed to be fed, was no small undertaking. consequently, hunting was a regular and necessary part of life in his household. it was necessary because the meat was needed to supplement the dinner table.

because of this, i began going on hunts at a very early age, around eight years old. all the male grandchildren were taken along, not to hunt, but to use as pack animals to haul hunting decoys, equipment and game in and out of the woods. i mean, that's why people had children back then. everything i know about hunting i learned from my father and grandfather. both hunted as a way of life, and i have met no one since with a greater respect and admiration for wildlife.

i still hunt to this day, mainly duck hunting, not because i need the meat, but because of what my grandfather taught me and the feeling that i have when i am in the woods or wilderness hunting. i have killed hundreds of ducks in the last forty years, but sometimes, when i go now, i may not even bother to pull the trigger. the hunt is really secondary to me now, what i enjoy is being out on the water before sunrise, breaking the ice to get to your blind, and then seing a flock of mallards or gadwalls setting their wings to land among my decoys. besides being awe-inspiring in its splendor, it reminds me of my father and grandfather who are both dead now. so that i and others can continue to enjoy these experiences, i have donated thousands of dollars over the years for wetland preservation and habitat so that both ducks and duck hunting may continue for years to come.

with the exception of a dozen or so duck mounts that i have collected over the years (because i enjoy admiring their beauty in my office), i have never hunted and killed anything that i didn't eat ot give to someone else to eat, and i have no patience or tolerance for those that kill for sport alone. downright hostile might be a better description. though i seldom hunt deer any more, dawgball, i thingk you are off the mark in your disdain for hunting game with a high powered rifle. as i have said, i do not hunt for sport, i hunt to practice a primordial skill of man that is as old as the species and that keeps me in touch with nature and with my upbringing. i actually take more issue with blackpowder and bow hunting because, when practiced by those other than experts, it actually results in a much higher percentage of cripples than a clean kill of a rifle. and trust me, those without the skill to make a clean kill seldom have the skill or desire to track a cripple and finish the job. needless waste and suffering is the result. what i take more issue with is idiots using high powered rifles from ground level in populated areas and killing other people by accident. i have advocated involuntary manslaughter prosecution in one such case in the past.

by the way, six-five is right, animals do not have rights. animals may be protected by some laws, such as hunting laws or the endangered species act, but try filing a lawsuit in any court in the name of an animal and you will either find yourself in jail for contempt of court or being paying off some court-imposed sanctions. the question of whether animals should be used for medical research so that human beings might not die is not worthy of any rational discourse.

 

[ferdville]

Finally, some voices of reason. I don't know if it is the fact that I live in California or what, but soooo many people I know fit right in with the PETA crowd. One of them actually gave me a membership to PETA for a Christmas present. The term "animal rights" is a misnomer - they have no rights. I actually know people that refuse to kill bugs! Upon arriving home and finding their cabinet filled with ants, this couple laid a trail of honey to their patio hoping to lure the ants outside. There are nuts like this all over California.

 

[dawgball]

loophole

I agree with almost everything you are saying.

and trust me, those without the skill to make a clean kill seldom have the skill or desire to track a cripple and finish the job.

That's exactly what I am against. A large portion of hunters are not hunters. They want it to be easy. It's not supposed to be easy. When you and your siblings were going out with your father and grandfather (which I fortunately have some of those same memories) that was not easy. I found that I was one of those that did not care to put the effort forward, so I left it to more responsible people. I still go on deer, turkey, and duck/goose hunts with groups, but I am armed with video equipment instead of a gun. So, when I hear some people boast their abilities, I don't buy it right off the bat.

Hopefully, I did not offend you because I had no intention of doing so. I feel we may be on the same page about alot of this issue.

I don't know if I would say animals have rights, but I do think we should show respect to nature.

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Sic 'em
dawgball

[This message has been edited by dawgball (edited 07-12-2001).]