ANWR anyone????

[UGA12]

I am sure this topic has been covered but I wanted to hear what you think.

Before you start calling names and playing the blame game tell me why we should or should not drill. I am not sure about current projections, but the last I heard was 50 years worth. If it is anywhere close to that would it not get us through until alternative fuels become the norm.(I assume we are 25 years away:shrug: ) I dont claim to be an expert but if we have this much oil and people are bitching about prices then why have the legislators not been told to allow it to happen.
Lets hear from ya!!!

 

[smurphy]

50 years worth at what rate? It's seems difficult to find realistic estimations. I've seen anywhere from 3-15 years, depending on how many other sources we are attempting to replace.

One reason not to is that it's realtively expensive to reach and to refine, so it won't be saving the consumer money.

Depending on what you believe about global warming, the permanent effects of melting those permafrost areas, etc then it may or may not be wise in the long run.

I think we have great alternative technologies already in place or just around the corner - mostly regarding hybrid and electric vehicles. They've been held back because there's still a lot of money to be made with oil.

It doesn't take much of an efficiency improvement to rid our dependency of oil from the Middle East. We have that ability right now, but are simply not putting those cars on the market.

But again, that ANWR oil wont be cheap. I don't think we would benefit as consumers.

 

[gardenweasel]

yeah...it`s much better to leave our economy dependent on a bunch of goat rind munching death cultists......that want us all dead......

while cuba and the peoples republic of china drill 60 miles off the florida coast....

i`m sure that they`ll be uber responsible...

crank up those windmills(just not in ted kennedy`s backyard)....

 

[UGA12]

I hear what you are saying about it might cost more than it is worth. I have always wondered about the whole "they" are keeping alternative cars away from use argument(not necessarily yours) because of oil profits. As a capitalist society if someone could develop alternative cars for the masses at the same cost of gasoline engines why wouldnt they. I assume most would say because the oil companies buy out those that try. To accept that argument means you have to accept that environmentalist are selling out to the oil companies as well. :shrug: Dont think I buy this argument!

 

[gardenweasel]

time is of the essence.....

unfortunately,in this country, the need has to be desperately drastic and dramatic for people to ever make real change....

"ohhh,the environment will suffer"..."ohhh,the tourism will suffer"...

and yet, they complain about the high price of gasoline, and our dependence on foreign oil....

if we started TODAY,i understand it would take 10 years to get results......so,if that emergency ever arises,we`re screwed....

you think it would be expensive?.....how expensive does oil become if iran gets a nuclear weapon and closes off the straits of hormuz?.....

soooo,nuclear power`s out...doing our own drilling is out....a wind farm anywhere near ted kennedy`s tavern is out....

we really are committed, aren`t we?....

i think some sctually want this country to collapse from it`s own sloth.....

paralyzed by the body politic...

 

[bryanz]

We should drill, no question. Only reason we don't, is because our government is not looking out for us. Most of our policy makers are profiting from us not drilling. We are at war and we are still giving money to the enemy ? It doesn't make sense. Even if there are ligament environment concerns, we have to sacrifice the environment for now. Every time we by oil from the region, we pay to have another solider killed or wounded. DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO FEED THE POCKETS OF OUR ENEMY ? We want it all, we want to go on and live like all is well in the world . When will our leaders ask the American people to help them win this war. At this rate we have (O )chance. No leadership, no commitment from the American people. Everyone talks about support for the troops, we have hung our guys out to dry. Bring our guys home, let the AF due their job, stop buying oil for 5 years, then we have a chance.

 

[UGA12]

They may not be looking out for you but are they not looking out for the environmentalist that wanted it rejected the first time it was put to a vote? I do agree though. It is amazing that when people have legal questions they always turn to the constitution. Why then would we not look at why we purchased alaska fro russia to begin with. William Seward (sec of st. in mid 1800's) new it was a steal and also essential for the protection of america. Now obviously times have brought about different enimies but I agree with bryan in that it would hurt our enemies and thus make us safer(One of the intented use for alaska to begin with). Just rambling pay me no attention:shrug:

 

[The Sponge]

As long as i live i will never be able to understand one american who can not see thru the greed of these oil companies. They do not give one shit about the consumer. To think drilling anywhere is gonna turn these thieves into kind people is ludicrous. They will give us a break to achieve a goal. They did it with the elections. When in the Carter years they pulled their bullshit people cut back and bought smaller cars. What they did was bring the prices down (to achieve a goal) to suck in more people to go back to buying the big monster cars. The problem i see now is the global warming scare. This mostly will keep the prices high the rest of our lives. Until we stopped thinking like retards and realize these people's god is the almighty dollar we will always be hostage to them. Also from what i heard, all the oil they find in Alaska will be headed to China. :nono:

 

[smurphy]

Electric and hybrids are here now. They are not released or promoted by American car companies on any kind of scale because they are essentially linked with major oil companies. They want to make as much money as possible. Less efficient vehicles = more money.

As for ANWR, I think it would get a lot more support if it were an easy answer. If the opposers of the drilling were only environmentalists, don't you think they'd have been steamrolled by now? Fact is many people on the right are also opposed to it. I don't know the details, but I'm guessing it's not as simple as just setting up the facilities and starting production.

 

[UGA12]

sponge is that not what capitalism is supposed to be about. If I was a business owner I would be a servant to the all mighty dollar as well. It is kinda like blaming mcdonalds for being fat isnt it, just dont eat there!!!

smurphy while I know full well large car companies are tied to big oil, it still strike me as odd that some of the billionares who talk the talk about the environment would not start a car line. If they can make them(electric/hydro) for the the same cost and offer the customer a comparable car why wouldnt they. I would think they would win a nobel prize for pholanthropy:shrug: Just saying it is big oil and big car makers is taking responsability of of a lot of people IMO.

JMO where am I wrong (other than spelling:com: )

 

[smurphy]

I don't think you are wrong. We're all just speculating.

I think hydrogen-power for cars is a joke - I don't think we will see that in place at a reasonable price in a very long time - if ever.

As for the billionaire philanthropists - well maybe there are none in the auto/oil business. And I guess it's a pretty tough industry to crack. How many new American car companies have come along the last 30 years? All I know is the electric technology has been around a long time. And when California passed a law requiring increasing percentage of new vehicles in the state to be electric over 15 years ago, the major car companies began to comply and produced a few thousand very good electric cars. But California was sued by the auto industry, the law was repealed and the electric cars were never made for resale.

My theory is that there's still just too much money to made in oil. Why give up the $ trillion or so remaining to be sold until they absolutely have to? The only way to expidite the new technology seems to be through laws - as almost worked in California.

 

[Happy Hippo]

And when California passed a law requiring increasing percentage of new vehicles in the state to be electric over 15 years ago, the major car companies began to comply and produced a few thousand very good electric cars. But California was sued by the auto industry, the law was repealed and the electric cars were never made for resale.

I don't really follow laws in Cali so I didn't know that was repealed, but when I was in college I did get to take a class from a visiting Professor who was the man who lobbied for this bill in Cali. He was extremely intelligent and this class "Automobiles and the Environment" was one of the best classes I took while in college. His name slips my mind right now...but he thought it was ground-breaking legislation that other states would soon follow. Too bad the auto industry won out.

As far as ANWR, I am against it for a number of reasons. However much oil remains, it is still finite and will have to be replaced by other technology eventually, so what excuse are we waiting for other than $$ for these oil corporations? Certainly the technologies exist, they just are not marketed. Another thing that has not been pointed out is the Inuit culture that ANWR would surely destroy. The Inuits are VERY opposed to drilling. One of my best friends was raised in Barrow, Alaska and she has returned there to make films about their native culture, which is at risk already. She tells me that everyone there is very opposed to ANWR. But I'm sure most people don't really care about that...as long as they can get their SUVs to Walmart. Thought I would throw it out there though.

 

[UGA12]

I guess the Inuits have never heard of Manifest Destiny :nono: lol

 

[The Sponge]

sponge is that not what capitalism is supposed to be about. If I was a business owner I would be a servant to the all mighty dollar as well. It is kinda like blaming mcdonalds for being fat isnt it, just dont eat there!!!

not in my world it isnt. The problem is i dont have to eat at Mcdonalds but i have to buy there liquid gold. It actually is kinda a monopoly. If i dont want fast food i have other ways to be fed. If i have to get to work i have no choice but to buy the stuff they never invented. They are basically just like the drug companies. There is no profit in the cure. Not sure there has been a cure since Polio. Those theives are still kicking themselves in the ass for that one. I miss the Jonas Saulks of the world. How much money is enough for these pigs?

 

[UGA12]

I am fairly certain there are electric and hybrid cars out there you could buy. You could even buy a motor cycle if it meant enough to you, but you wont and neither will I. If gas was $20 a gallon I would, but I am willing to pay at the moment just like most other americans which is why prices will remain high. I dont like the prices either but there are other options if you do not like gas prices.

 

[The Sponge]

I am fairly certain there are electric and hybrid cars out there you could buy. You could even buy a motor cycle if it meant enough to you, but you wont and neither will I. If gas was $20 a gallon I would, but I am willing to pay at the moment just like most other americans which is why prices will remain high. I dont like the prices either but there are other options if you do not like gas prices.

The other option cost thousands of dollars. The burger cost 4 bucks and if i can find a coupon i might be able to by one and get the other free. As a matter of fact around here at Burger King they have whopper Wednesday. Its only 1.49. Two of them fills my tank for the whole day. Cheaper than the actual ride to get them which is probably a gallon at what 3 bucks now?

 

[smurphy]

I am fairly certain there are electric and hybrid cars out there you could buy. You could even buy a motor cycle if it meant enough to you, but you wont and neither will I.

I've had a Civic Hybrid since 2003. It's averaged about 49 mpg over that time (yes, I really do get what the sticker advertised). At least there is foreign competition. If I had to buy an American car, I'd probably give up driving. ....then again, that might only be because my first car was a $400 Pinto:00hour . 49 is nothing though - nothing compared to what we've had available for quite some time. I remember a regular old 1979 Accord that could get me 40 on long trips. Not only have we not advanced the way we should, it seems we've gone backwards the last 20 years or so when it comes to efficiency.

 

[The Sponge]

why is it that Citco is helping our poor with heating oil? This is from another country. Our very own thieves wont help the poor but an alleged dictator from Venezuela's steps up and helps. Now if you don't think our oil companies are a bunch of dirtbags then explain this to me. The best part tho is how angry they have become and went on the crusade to dirty up Chavez. No wonder he called the commander and thief the devil. Of course true to form Fox went after him the hardest. They had the simpletons boycott this countries oil.

 

[Happy Hippo]

I guess the Inuits have never heard of Manifest Destiny :nono: lol

I'm sure they didn't hear of it when they started inhabiting Alaska around the year 1000. Like I said, I would just throw it out there because I'm sure no one here could care less about preserving indigenous culture, but to me it matters, and to them it matters. But no, as long as our cars can get here and there and our vinyl siding houses are warm - screw them and their culture that has been in existence for 1000 years.

 

[The Sponge]

one reason i think they should drill was a rightwing talking point i heard from Hannity or Rush. I think they said the animals would love the warmth from the pipes. They said something about how animals hide under peoples sheds to stay out of sight and keep warm. Im kinda confused on why these pipes would be hot in the first place.:shrug: