are we

fletcher

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Let's keep this clean and no views are wrong and no racial slurs please.

My question as i listen to this speech it sounds like mind is made up and is not tues like the last day we can hit at night for almost 2 months where it is dark with the way the moon is? This could turn into to a real problem am i worried yes i will be honest, i think this is a little different then ds was not worried then i got to be honest it was like watching mnf evey night on cnn seeing it live.

Maybe 9-11 has me more aware that we can also be hit. So the peole that are much smarter then i am on this would like to know what you think.

please lets keep this from turning into a fight between each other everyone has the right to how they feel. man i hope we are not but 250,000 + men and women in place lots of ships and planes it just seems like as i listen it is ready to blow anytime. got to say this sucks and it must suck for all.

if we do and i think it has just been all but said god bless everyone even people from other countries and children.
 

SmashMouth

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I have such mixed emotions on this. I don't feel they are a threat, yet I feel he needs to go. It just seems Bush was hell bent on war from day 1 of his administration. I'm one of the people that says we should get the ones responsible for 911. I don't like how they are trying to tie the Iraquis into 9/11 yet there has never been an attempt to rouse the fanaticals from Egypt and Saudi Arabia where EVERY ONE of the Hi Jackers came from.
This is going to start something bad if we start this chit
 

PUHD

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Not a big advocate of war myself, but you have to do what has to be done. So-damn Insane has been getting his wrists slapped for 12 years. When is enough enough? Son is ready to finish what daddy started. Would be best to pray for everyone throughout the world no matter what religion or belief.
 

TIME TO MAKE $$$

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PUHD said:
Not a big advocate of war myself, but you have to do what has to be done. So-damn Insane has been getting his wrists slapped for 12 years. When is enough enough? Son is ready to finish what daddy started. Would be best to pray for everyone throughout the world no matter what religion or belief.

where have you been bro?
nic to see you around, send me an email
 

Chanman

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Just adding what I got in the E-Mail today. Appreciate your post Fletcher, and all other views. Just one ? What's a Mugwump?

TallTexian's "America Forever"

"Charlie Daniels' Open Letter to the Hollywood Bunch"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK -- Let's just say for a moment you bunch of

pampered, overpaid, unrealistic children

had your way and the U.S.A. didn't go into Iraq.

Let's say that you really get your way

and we destroy all our nuclear weapons

and stick daisies in our gun barrels

and sit around with some white wine and cheese

and pat ourselves on the back,

so proud of what we've done for world peace.

Let's say that we cut the military budget to

just enough to keep the National Guard

on hand to help out with floods and fires.

Let's say that we close down

our military bases all over the world

and bring the troops home,

increase our foreign aid

and drop all the trade sanctions

against everybody.

I suppose that in your fantasy world

this would create a utopian world

where everybody would live in peace.

After all, the great monster,

the United States of America,

the cause of all the world's trouble

would have disbanded it's horrible military

and certainly all the other countries

of the world would follow suit.

After all, they only arm themselves

to defend their countries from the mean old U.S.A.

Why you bunch of pitiful, hypocritical,

idiotic, spoiled mugwumps.

Get your head out of the sand

and smell the Trade Towers burning.

Do you think that a trip to Iraq by Sean Penn

did anything but encourage a wanton murderer

to think that the people of the U.S.A.

didn't have the nerve or the guts to fight him?

Barbra Streisand's fanatical and hateful rankings

about George Bush makes about as much sense

as Michael Jackson hanging a baby over a railing.

You people need to get out of Hollywood

once in a while and get out into the real world.

You'd be surprised at the hostility you would find out here.

Stop in at a truck stop and tell an overworked,

long distance truck driver that you don't think

Saddam Hussein is doing anything wrong.

Tell a farmer with a couple of sons in the military

that you think the United States

has no right to defend itself.

Go down to Baxley, Georgia and hold an anti-war rally

and see what the folks down there think about you.

You people are some of the most disgusting examples

of a waste of protoplasm I've ever

had the displeasure to hear about.

Sean Penn, you're a traitor to the United States of America.

You gave aid and comfort to the enemy.

How many American lives will your little,

"fact finding trip" to Iraq cost?

You encouraged Saddam to think

that we didn't have the stomach for war.

You people protect one of the most evil men

on the face of this earth and won't lift a finger

to save the life of an unborn baby.

Freedom of choice you say?

Well I'm going to exercise

some freedom of choice of my own.

If I see any of your names on a marquee,

I'm going to boycott the movie.

I will completely stop going to movies if I have to.

In most cases it certainly wouldn't be much of a loss.

You scoff at our military whose boots

you're not even worthy to shine.

They go to battle and risk their lives

so ingrates like you can live in luxury.

The day of reckoning is coming

when you will be faced with the undeniable truth

that the war against Saddam Hussein

is the war on terrorism.

America is in imminent danger.

You're either for her or against her.

There is no middle ground.

I think we all know where you stand.

What do you think?

God Bless America!
 

gardenweasel

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i have to say

i have to say

that the view from hollywood is a heckuva lot different from the view from baxley,ga......how many folks from baxley,ga have we seen on the news voicing an opinion on the war?........or anything else for that matter....the war is a tough subject.....with no easy answers....i honestly think the hollywood types do more to hurt any honest heartfelt anti-war debate than they do to help.....i really think most see them as rich and pampered,so far removed from knowing what it`s like having to work 50-60 hours a week to make ends meet.....living in a utopian world of adulation and fame.............except for melissa rivers.......she showed just how tough she is on "i`m a celebrity,get me out of here"........:eek: :confused: :confused: :nono: :D :D :D
 

StevieD

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My feeling is that war has to be the last thing you want. That if talks have broken down so badly that you need a war to set things right then everyone has failed.

We were hit on 911 yes. But we were hit by guys with box cutters. I am so sick of hearing about "weapons of mass destruction." It was box cutters.

Also don't forget they were not even able to complete their mission. The passengers on the last plane put them down.

When they attack again it will not be with any of these weapons this war with Iraq is about. It will be a milk container full of gasoline or some other homemade bomb.

Of course Saddam is a madman but that is why we elect people who are supposed to be talented in dealing with these guys and keeping them in line.

War just means they failed, in my opinion anyway.
 

ozball

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And war breeds the next generation of suicide bombers. It will only inflame things...and make a Sept 11 repeat MORE likely, not less. Pursue bin Laden and the culprits of 9-11, don't use it as an excuse to mount war. Iraq had nothing to do with Sept 11.....

ozball
 

Master Capper

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I am oppossed to this action that is going to be taken in Iraq, I think there has been very little proven evidence that has been put forth by the Bush administration. I am beginning to think that this may be all about the money (oil), since it is beginning to become quite apparant that most of the world also doe not support this war. I think that by going into Iraq without the U.N. support we are opening a pandoras box that will lead to terrorist to increase their attacks on the US. There seems to be a more pressing need for milatary action in North Korea as they are blatantly beginning to produce chemical weapons, where there has been very little hard proof shown that Iraq is doing this.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
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not sure about war

not sure about war

but if you guys don`t believe we`re going to be hit again,with maybe chemical or biological weapons,or at least there`s a real possibility,maybe this is hollywood.....let`s hope it`s not 10,000 dead next time....
 

Blitz

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Anyone heard from Libya lately? No? Maybe cause we bombed the hell out of them and they shut up. That is the only thing some of these people understand, that if they know you ain't gonna take any shit, they are more likely to leave you alone, time to take off the kid gloves...

I personally don't have any proof that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, but what makes some of you so sure they didn't have anything to do with it? Regardless, wether or not they did, they have been playing games with the UN for 12 YEARS and some people are still saying give Iraq a few more days/weeks/months (pick one) to comply. Give me a break enough is enough.

The same people saying now that you can't hit Iraq with a preemptive strike, are the same people that were saying after 9/11 "What did Bush know and when did he know it". I don't want to turn on the TV in a few weeks/ months/years and see all the Monday morning Quarterbacks saying "Why didn't Bush take out Saddam when he had the chance"

Thank you for your time, I'm tired and I'm going to bed. May God Bless and be with our Men and women of the Military as they do what seems like is unavoidable...
 

ferdville

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I wish there were alternatives to this mess other than war. However, to all those out there who are vigorous anti-war. let me ask just one question. I have asked this question twice before on this forum and it has yet to be answered. I fully agree that we should do everything we can to avoid war. Twelve years ago Iraq was ordered to disarm by the U.N. Theyu have not done so. They have been given last chance ultimatums more than once. While there may be no concrete ties between Iraq and Al Queda that we know of, there is no disputing that Iraq possesses arms in violation of the agreement. Iraq also has a history of dealing with terrorists. You don't think we should go over there and take out Saddam.
What would it take for you to agree that the U.S. should go to war with Iraq?
 

Snake Plissken

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Box Cutters did not bring down the twin towers and as far as completing their mission they did EXACTLY what they wanted to do. Instill fear and anxiety into all of us.

All this Anti-Bush rhetoric I see these days is just plain disgusting to me. These protesters are making Bush to be the bad guy here and saying he is evil when he is giving Sadam all the chances to disarm peacefully but he is not choosing to.

Look at this website and look what Sadam did and you can see who is Evil
Caution very Graphic

We are at war people against Terrorism and if don't believe that this guy in Baghdad if given the opportunity would love to kill as many Americans as possible.

As far as new Recruits and new attacks they can't hate us more than they already do war or no war they are trying their dammest
to plot to kill us.

Think about guys these extremist want you, me and everyone Dead.

No warnings, No 18 resolutions, No security council votes

I don't want sit here and wait to be provoked before we do something about this phsyco
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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1st let me say this is from very conservative publication ,The weekly Standard, but it has points of interest.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Peacenik Top 10
A look at the ten most popular objections to war and some common-sense responses to them.
by Fred Barnes
03/06/2003 12:00:00 AM
Fred Barnes, executive editor

THOSE OPPOSED to military action in Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein, destroy his weapons of mass destruction, and liberate the 24 million Iraqi citizens under his control cite at least 10 objections to going to war now. These objections range from the arguable to the totally absurd. Let's examine them.

(1) Rush to war. This is a favorite of congressional Democrats. But the rush is more like a baby crawl. Iraq has been in material breach of United Nations resolutions since a few weeks after the Gulf War ended in 1991. New resolutions have been approved, inspectors ousted, and the United Nations made to look impotent. President Bush has taken all the steps asked of him before going to war: getting the approval of Congress, getting another U.N. resolution (with perhaps yet another on the way), and building a coalition of supporters. He's hardly rushing.

(2) It's a war for oil. The United States could buy all the oil it wants from Iraq by lifting the sanctions and helping to reconstruct the Iraqi oilfields. It's the French and Russians who have oil deals with Saddam and thus are fixated on that issue. They don't want a war that would upset those deals.

(3) War with Iraq will bring more terrorism. This is a hardy perennial. It was claimed before the Gulf war and the Afghanistan campaign--and when bombs fell on al Qaeda and the Taliban during Ramadan. Rather than more terrorism, removing Saddam will bring more respect for the United States. Terrorists will be increasingly fearful.

(4) The Arab street will erupt. Another perennial. This is often predicted but rarely happens. A swift, decisive victory over Saddam will quiet the Arab street. So far, only the American street has erupted--against the French and Germans.

(5) Bush is doing it for his dad. President Bush the elder stopped short of deposing Saddam in the Gulf war and to this day believes he did the right thing. So do his top aides, such as national security adviser Brent Scowcroft. Instead, they agreed to a truce with Saddam conditioned on Iraq's full disarmament. Also, consider the source of this charge: Martin Sheen.

(6) Attacking Iraq would be unprovoked aggression. No, it wouldn't. Andrew Sullivan has pointed out a significant fact: There was no peace treaty, only the truce, so the state of war resumes when the conditions are violated. By attacking now, the United States would be ending the war, not starting it.

(7) Containment is working. The problem is the right threat is not being contained: the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Sure, with U.S. troops and U.N. inspectors in the area, Saddam won't attack Jordan or Syria or other neighbors. But he could slip chemical or biological agents to terrorists without anyone knowing. And that's the threat.

8) America doesn't have enough allies. What? Forty or so isn't enough? Is the case for war weakened in the slightest by the absence of the French or the Angolans? No. And despite what Democrats like Howard Dean say, a war with Iraq would not be "unilateral," which would mean the United States would be acting alone.

(9) Win without war. That's a nice goal. Unfortunately, it's Saddam's goal. With no war, he wins and emerges as the new strongman in the Middle East, forcing people to come to terms with him.

(10) Bush is seeking a new American empire. This is a favorite accusation of Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, the man who once recited the Gettysburg Address in Donald Duck's voice. I'll let Secretary of State Colin Powell answer this one. When hectored by a former archbishop of Canterbury on this subject recently, he said: "We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last 100 years . . . and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in." Well said.
 

ryson

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Personally I thought it was a great speech. What slays me is that a very large percentage of the American population has no clue on the intricacies of what is going on in the world today. Anyone on this board who has been involved with security of our country or dealing with threats from other countries knows that we as the general public receive a miniscule amount of data in regards to the decisions that any President makes in regards to conflict. I will be the first to get on the stump and complain about mismanagement within the federal government, but when it comes to war I have complete faith in support in ANY president that decides to put troops in harms way, regardless of party lines. There have been mistakes in the past, but I hope that those mistakes have been reviewed and lessons learned to rectify those mistakes. The complexity of the battlefield has significantly changed since the end of the cold war. Believe it not our county employs some very smart people to analyze all of the data and understand the culture of these other countries. I myself as an civilian American have no clue on the society of Iraq, all I know is what the media spews, what I find on the net, I don?t think that is sufficient data to base a decision on whether or not we send troops into harms way, therefore I must believe in our system and the decisions that are made. The difference between news and intelligence is analysis and forecasting, a large part is knowing what to discard. I find it hard to believe that any President will make this decision lightly. What really bothers me is the partisan politics that is going on, how many times did the President say he hopes this does not happen? It seems to me that instead of respectfully disagreeing with the Presidents decision it turns into a character assassination. Resolution 1441 that was passed unanimously by the UN Security Council stated full disarmament, that resolution has not been complied with, you don?t bring a knife to a gunfight. I think most people forget the Presidents true title Commander in Chief?period. Without that chain of command and when people question orders?.soldiers and civilians die (it could happen on our soil again)??end of story.

GOD BLESS AMERICA
 
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kosar

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It's strange how many people refer to the UN approved and mandated resolution 1441 as if it's written in stone since the UN approved it (no real big problems with this part of it), yet the same people say ' disregard what the UN says about the war if they don't agree with it' (more of a problem with the inconsistency of this) as if the UN isn't any sort of an authority anymore. It's only when everybody agrees with us that we validate the UN.

We can't have it both ways. The UN is either a 'joke' or they aren't. We look silly when we consider it only a joke when everybody doesn't agree with us.

Also, using all the arguments of occupying Iraq here real soon, wouldn't most, if not all, of the same arguments hold up for invading Iran. ( and please, if we're taking the UN seriously enough to quote the 'disarm' clause ad nauseum, then we need to take it seriously when some countries with veto power want more time for insprections).
 

StevieD

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Great point Kosar. It seems like we seem to think we can pick and choose when the UN matters.
 

Blazer

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war

war

I've calmed myself over the war. I see a need to do what we said we are going to do (1441). If Hans Blix says Iraq has not been forthcoming that's it. Bombs away.

My only reservation is I want Arab allies.

I am scared that this is turning into a holy war. I know that Bin Laden has used the holy war mountra and we are responding but over %50 of the world calls themselves Muslum or thier nation is Muslum only. The Muslums have usually fought amoungst themselves and left the rest of the world alone. If they unite for Saddam under Arafat or to combat the US that's it. That's WW3.
 
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