are we

[ozball]

Good point kosar,

also...how many security council resolutions has Israel defied, with US backing...I believe it is in the hundreds. The US government is saying the UN must be obeyed...1441 is written in stone as a resolution, yet has not acted to consistently back up previous resolutions with force. Part of the world's reluctance to follow the US into a war is the past inconsistency over UN resolutions, ignoring those whcih suit.

ozball

 

[Chanman]

Great thread! I don't think the terrorists can Hate US anymore than they already do. I also saw in passing news about Bush thinking of withdrawing troops from S. Korea and other countries, such as Germany, etc. An old saying keeps going thru my mind that I learned as a kid. "Don't show a gun, unless you are willing to use it." If we back down, (No not try our best for a peaceful resolution), we might as well withdraw all foreign troops and circle the wagons- IMHO

 

[AR182]

The problem with the un (there are many) security council is that some of these countries (germany,france,russia,syria) have a conflict of interest with this problem. they have many financial deals with iraq(some of them illegal) under saddam & are afraid that if saddam is overthrown they will lose those contracts. Bush feels that iraq poses a threat to the US(not militarily), but these countries don't feel the same threat because of what I stated above.
When Clinton was president he went to the security council about the problems in Kosovo & Bosnia. When he knew that he wouldn't get the necessary votes to pass a resolution, he did not present it to a vote & went without the un approval to take care of milosevic. He bombed Kosovo & Bosnia, while the un did what they do best which is to debate & have expensive lunches.

Bush appears to want a vote, whether he wins or loses because he wants the world to see what a bullshit group of wastes that the un truly is. That the un is not concerned about enforcing what saddam signed when he was thrown out of Kuwait. they don't care that one of their memebers feels threatened. these members probably want to see the US knocked down a few notches.

I was against Bush going before the UN because I knew the bullshit that would take place.I think the best thing to do is knock the un building down & put a much needed parking lot in its place. Then hire these useless pieces of shit as parking lot attendants & with the tips that they receive from parking cars they then could start paying the millions $ that they owe NYC, which is dying financially, in unpaid tickets.

 

[Wilson]

Hellah said, "going to war will make new enemies....

more 9/11's "


This is last excuse I want to hear. If we succumb or stand down because of "possible" threats of future terrorist attacks it would be defeating the purpose of our war vs. Terror.

We shouldn't make military decisions on the basis of potentially hurting other evil leader's feelings?

So, in essence, you are saying we should do nothing because we may instigate another 9-11-01? That is absurd. Maybe we shouldn't pursue bin Laden? Because that may make other terrorists mad?....They may inflict other gross atrocities on our peaceful society. Pacifists, that suggest what you are suggesting are part of the problem.

The message is clear...if you attack our country, there will be a very dear price to pay. Make no mistake, we are not Isreal..we will not just be content on trading blow for blow on these unsolicited attacks...we will smoke you out completely and make you pay. This is the United States of America.

Saddam Hussein is a mass muderer who is a direct threat to my family. He needs to be disarmed and out of power. You need to deal with reality and not what world opinion may be after we exterminate the evil regime.

 

[hellah10]

Saddam Hussein is a mass muderer who is a direct threat to my family. He needs to be disarmed and out of power. You need to deal with reality and not what world opinion may be after we exterminate the evil regime.

You should be more worried about Kim Jong-il

and he`s not a direct threat to the United States....he`s a direct threat to Isreal, Kuwait(for many and good reasons), and Iran(for dumb reasons)

hell, Kim Jong-il even said he has missles that can reach the west coast....does that not concern anybody

 

[ozball]

Saddam Hussein IS NOT a direct threat to your family. He has not sponsored terrorism. He has no links to al Quaeda, despite thorough efforts to find such links. He is a pr!ck who has gassed his own people while an ally of the US. There are far greater assholes leading countries around the world (eg Robert Mugabe), doing horrendous things to their own people.

To ignore the consequences of launching a pre-emptive war on a sovereign (arab) state is extremely short sighted. Hundreds of thousands of deaths of Iraqis and Americans is the direct result of this...and the next round of terrorists, who will have legitimate reasons to hate Americans.

Imagine how you would feel towards the Russians these days if they had launched a pre-emptive strike against the US WMD threat, and killed your parents and grandparents in the attack. At least try and see this from other perspectives than your own safe one.

ozball

 

[hellah10]

Saddam Hussein IS NOT a direct threat to your family. He has not sponsored terrorism. He has no links to al Quaeda, despite thorough efforts to find such links. He is a pr!ck who has gassed his own people while an ally of the US. There are far greater assholes leading countries around the world (eg Robert Mugabe), doing horrendous things to their own people.

Bingo!

--- well said

 

[Wilson]

North Korea will be dealt with very soon. But, with the help of China, Japan and South Korea.

Parallelism is very important...let's debate the issue at hand.....12 years SH has been mandated to disarm...he has only armes himself with legitimate chemical and biological weapons that can be distribute to any American city at any time. This is a threat to ALL of our families. He has direct ties to the animals that flew a commercial airliner into the most monumental representation of our country's economy. I get the feeling that time has erased the disgust, sadness and anger of that day.

What if next week, month, year, Saddam or one of his "terror constituents" launched a chemical or biological attack on the city of Akron? How could you live with yourself knowing you supported not removing him? This guy has killed tens of thousands of his own people...why wouldn't he do it to us?

 

[Wilson]

I guess the bottom line is I trust my government to do the right thing. I trust they will do what is in the best interest of all Americans. I also trust they know more about this situation than all of us. If they believe SH is an immenient threat to the safety of American people, I support them.

 

[hellah10]

What if next week, month, year, Saddam or one of his "terror constituents" launched a chemical or biological attack on the city of Akron? How could you live with yourself knowing you supported not removing him? This guy has killed tens of thousands of his own people...why wouldn't he do it to us?

Let's get something straight here...I never said anything about "not removing him" Me like my other muslim brothers and sisters think he`s asshole too...we know what he has done wrong and he should be punished for it. Iam all for that....so is the rest of the arab nations. But to put words in my mouth like that.....thats wrong :nono:

I mean I try to sit here and think about why is Saddam still in power or better yet - still alive. US has had a price on his head for what....13 years or so He`s alive for a reason...and a reason that we dont know. Wether it may involve the US Gov, Euro Gov's, whoever....something is fishy. Iam sure US can deploy some Special Forces Ops and kill him....its not like Iraq has a great Army or anything. Like Ive said....If the US REALLLLLY wanted him dead or captured - it woulda been done by now....he`s alive for a reason.

Ive been to Iraq back in 1995 - its a shithole country, starving people, poverty, people just begging you. Its so sad to see it yet we all know why. I would love to see a new government placed there...nothing melted my heart more then what my eyes saw on that day when my family and I drove through Iraq......

 

[howdy]

Why is it that no country has tried to come a screw with the US for so many years?
Because we showed a while back that if it was done we would kick their ass!
Well the fear that dropping the big one instilled around the world has wore off and it is time to show the world once again that the US is not to be toyed with!

Having fear that war will create more terroist attacks is wrong! What war caused the 9-11 attacks?
Trust me they dont need any reason to do that kind of crap! They have been doing it around the world for years it is just now that they have deemed the US weak enough to be a target.

It is not only time to kick their ass but also to make an example of them.
It is time once again to tell the world that the US is not a bunch of pussies!

 

[AR182]

The US just threw two of saddams goons because they were seen csoping out a few of NY's landmaks. Now if anyone thinks that these goons were just site seeing they are delusional. saddam is a DIRECT THREAT TO THE US because his henchmen can take a vial of anthrax( that is unaccounted for) on a plane to any large US city & let it do its destruction.

It's funny that many of the people who are opposing force against iraq were for Clinton going after Milosevic.Nobody can tell me that Milosevic was more of a threat to the US than saddam. I wonder why the inconsistencies ?

 

[ozball]

The French seem to be bucking US foreign policy, and have an anti-US stance. They have nuclear ( and probably biological) weapons...Should Paris be next? Perhaps a regime change there because you don't like their attitude...Where does it stop.

Killing hundreds of thousands of people because you are worried what they might do is a scary kind of foreign policy. If there are ties to Iraq and any future act of terror...hit em hard, but demolishing a country because of what MIGHT happen is just not right. And not the American Way. Sounds like something Stalin might have considered, not the policy of an enlightened country.

ozball

 

[Wilson]

I didn't know you are Arabic. I married a girl from Lebanon...Her father brought her family here when she was 2. I actually have learned to love raw kibbie on pita bread and grape leaves.

 

[StevieD]

Let's see. Clinton was a draft dodging chicken heart. Bush is a the tough talking cowboy who won't take any crap from anyone. So why all the increase in terrorist activity under the tough guy. Following the time to get tough theory terrorist activity should of decreased while the tough guy was in office.

 

[Wilson]

Intelligent post Stevie...


I don't know, but, I thought the USS Cole and Embassy bombing happened not too long ago....stupid posts shall receive stupid responses.

 

[StevieD]

no message

 

[JT]

Bush dodged the draft too in his own way, just didn't protest it. At least Gore was in the country. As for this debate, bravo on keeping it civilized and not falling into childish name calling like at MW's Canteen. Since it looks like it is going to happen, and even if Bush deep down didn't want to he has put himself into a corner where action is certain, I just hope it goes quickly with Iraqi soldiers surrendering, no war crimes committed, etc. Being a cynic and feeling like Hellah does that something doesn't add up I have my doubts but hope I am wrong.

 

[djv]

First I thought our Pres Mr. Bush II was on drugs last night. I never saw him so slow and reserved. I thought maybe he was sick but no one said that.
Second today we find unemployment is almost at 6% a 12 year high. Last time it was that high when dad Bush was in office. What is it the Bushs do not get about the economy. When will they learn that war dies not solve all problems. In fact most wars seem to leave more problems then they solve.
Oh well with or with out world opinion with us. It looks like minds are made up and have been for about 2 months maybe more.
The odds on when it will started are posted here some place.

 

[hellah10]

I didn't know you are Arabic. I married a girl from Lebanon...Her father brought her family here when she was 2. I actually have learned to love raw kibbie on pita bread and grape leaves.

reallly! sweet. What part of Lebanon??? My family is also from Lebanon, and thats where they live now. My dad moved back to the old country after he retired. Glad to see Iam not the only one who likes kibbie