Bush Facist Test

Master Capper

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Well it looks like Bush has nearly reached his goal of a Facist state as the only two points that he has not achieved are 5 and 14, and 14 is subjest to debate


14 Characteristics Of A Fascist State


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people's attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choicerelentless propaganda and disinformationwere usually effective. Often the regimes would incite 'spontaneous' acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and 'terrorists.' Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting 'national security,' and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elites behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the godless. A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of have-not citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. 'Normal' and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or 'traitors' was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
 

dr. freeze

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lets see some evidence of this garbage

I wonder how many of these traits our government in 1776 could fit in the author's eyes.

I suppose they were fascist too.
 

Master Capper

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no Wilson, I think you have it confused with the right wing male homo, whom teaches bible studies class each week and volunteers for the Big Brother Program and then molest children, but he is okay since he is a big fundraiser for the Republican party, hell those ten kids are framing him. (sad thing is this actually happened in Medina ohio last week)
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Wilson If they ever get out of hand just shoot them this question and the silence will get deafening.

Question:
Why is it that the liberals in our society could not exist without the conservatives--yet the conservatives would flourish if not for fact of supporting the liberals.

Since lberals are against big business the primary employment I could see them having per their demographic majority is aids research and penal systems---

Maybe they can all put their heads together and come up with something they contribute to society we could not do without.--This should be interesting.
 

StevieD

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How do you say that Liberals would not survive without conservatives? I think it is the other way around. Consevetives are very slow to accept change. Basically conservatives are busy trying to protect something they were against 10 years ago.
 

dr. freeze

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nah true conservatives are in favor of abolishing the whole thing altogether and giving people the chance to become responsible citizens without the need for the government planning my finances

the next best step, since the above is not feasible, is to try to fix it

by the same token, 10 years ago, why were the democrats for fixing it and detailing the crisis but now vehemently opposed to any change?
 

Master Capper

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Conservatives would flourish, now thats almost as funny as 75% of major terorist have been capturd or killed. If you truly had all conservatives with no one to keep them in check the country would go belly up. Who would fight the wars they start? Who would they embezzle from by using crooked business practices? Who would supply Rush with his Vicodin? Who would ever be able to balance the budget after they tank the economy? Who would perform the manual labor? The vast majority of Conservatives are not willing to make sacrifices that have to do with their own well being, but expect the country as a whole to make these sacrifices, now if everyone was a Conservative it sounds like there would be CIvil War.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"Maybe they can all put their heads together and come up with something they contribute to society we could not do without.--This should be interesting"----once again mega BS but no answers

Fact most business including small business are conservative
Fact most farmers are conservative
Fact most military are conservatives
Fact most tax payors are conservative.

Fact most incarcerated are liberals
Fact most on welfare and making less than $15,000 are liberals
Fact most aid carriers and gays are liberal
Fact most personal injury attorneys are liberal
Fact most occupants of prison system are liberals

Lets we have abundance jobs--lots of food--strong military support would have much lower taxes with few welfare recipients to support,we'd have much safer and healthier living conditions and need for far fewer prisons--a virtual utopia.

Now tell me where your going to work,who is going to feed you and support you.What will you do when terrorist strike your side???--convert the personal injury attorneys who are all out of work because they have no big business or insurance companies to pay them anymore, into defense attorneys for the terrorist and incarcerated.

Still waiting for "factual" data that the left could survive without the right.
 

StevieD

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Dogs you are so far off in this it is laughable. Where did this question come from. It musy have beent a pop up that came on when you were on some Republican Talking Point site. What is it exactly that the Conservatives would do? Other than they would still be fighting the Vietnam War I can't think of much. Liberals own businesses. The Conservatives need the creativity of the Liberals to create their businesses on. That and minimum wage would be about a dime an hour.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Stevie I wish you and MC would put up some facts to support your position instead of laughs

Yes liberals own a small portion of businesses and you also got the huge edge movie industry--but that might give 35% of assets to cover around 80% of the liabilties eg Welfare and other entitlement programs. Conversely you got the conservatives with bulk of assetts and losing 80% of liabilities--can you comprehend the dramatic effect to both sides.

per your
"The Conservatives need the creativity of the Liberals to create their businesses on. That and minimum wage would be about a dime an hour."

The only thing creative about liberals is how to extract funds from those that have and give to those that don't.

Case in point I think there would be little dispute the small-business owners and entrepreneurs would be the creative end of spectrum.A Washington DC based polling company did a post election survey for Small Business Survival Commitee and found
50 percent considered themselves to be conservative, 35 percent were self-described moderates, and 13.7 percent said they were liberal.
Now tell me how creative the liberal unions are when they take all moneys despite political affiliation of members and support who THEY want and tell their members how to vote--does the word lemming ring a bell.

and on the 10 cent an hour--free enterprise is what made this the #1 prouctive country in the world despite the attemps of liberals who view the gov can do a better job of regulating commerce.
 

StevieD

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Unions are a necessary evil because of the greed of the conservative business owners. Do unions go to far. Yes, of course they do. But I would hate to see what working conditions would be without them. Basically we need both the conservatives and the liberals to keep things in check. But to say that consevervatives would flourish without liberals is a complete joke and waste of time to even consider.
 

Master Capper

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Dogs that Bark sounds life insurance salesman with all his twisted logic but no facts to back his statements...

Fact most military are conservatives
Maybe most brass in the Military are Conservative but you cannot tell me that most recruits are conservative

Fact most incarcerated are liberals
And you have what to back this statement up? Is this a prescreen question when someone is locked up? Of course you have nothing BWHAHAHAH

Fact most tax payers are conservative
And what documentation do you have to support this statement

Fact most aid carriers and gays are liberal
Again another assertion without any proof, very sad!

Fact most occupants of prison system are liberals
a repeat of the first statement, but again no proof

Fact most business including small business are conservative
post some proof

Fact most on welfare and making less than $15,000 are liberals
What proof do you have? None?


Fact most personal injury attorneys are liberal
This is the only one that istrue, but whats wrong with being a injury lawyer?

Fact most farmers are conservative
depends on what part of the country

Why didn't you add

Most big businesses that deceive investors and lost millions for retirees are Conservative

Most Preachers who preach monogamy but that have sex with hookers in hotel rooms are Conservative

Most Life Insurance Companies that swindle old folks by deceiving them on the cash value of their Universal life policies are Republican contributers

The largest homosexual political group is a major contributer to the Republican Party

Fact, most radio talk show host whom committ felonies to obtain illegial narcotics are CONSERVATIVE

The vast majority of white collar criminals are Conservative and their punishments do not fit the crimes that they commit.


We have seen in history that if everyone was a Conservative the country would tank, being a conservative originally was based on being a stickler for financial restraint (which we know Bush spends like a DEM), it was not based on religious zealots and hate as Bush has cobbled together his blind followers. The true answer is this country would function alot better if everyone was an independent and was not led around by idiots whom have no regard for your well being. No country in history has sustained a lasting empire when there are no opposing factions to keep the other in check, no way everyone being a Conservative would last, theres too much hate and bitterness in that party they would all kill each other. If your a Conservative you need the Liberals to vent your hate


As reactionaries often do, G W Bush has "cobbled together" a coalition of groups who ideologically detest each other, but who manage to "rise above their principles" in order to satisfy their material (financial) interests in supporting the policies associated with G W Bush. Fascists often do this. Mussolini said that fascism had no consistent philosophy, other than the need to maintain power. Intellectuals can spend centuries trying to find the motives for fascism in the ideologies, but it will lead nowhere unless one also analyzes the conflicting and converging interest groups.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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MC in rebuttle
"Dogs that Bark sounds life insurance salesman with all his twisted logic but no facts to back his statements..".

1st I am owner of Ins brokerage agencyfor over 20 years--including the office bldg that rents space to 6 other businesses- Unlike you who slide around anomously hiding behind keyboard most here know my real name Wayne Hoehn its in the book--I'm easy to find.
I don't use some egotisical moniker like mastercapper to make peoplw think I can cap either--but I will spare you the embarrassment on capping issue--however will make note on one that applys since it deals with looking at politics objectly--search for election wagering thread. I wagered on both parties at significant + odds--and you????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fact most military vote conservative
"In 2000, Florida officials disqualified 1,527 military votes because they lacked postmarks. George W. Bush won Florida - and the presidency - by 537 votes.

The military traditionally votes Republican. In one recent informal survey of the armed forces and their family members, 72 percent of respondents said they favored Bush over Democrat John Kerry."

Fact most incarerated are liberals
Blacks vote 90% dem--prison population is approaching 50% black so for this to not be true you would have to assume EVERYONE else in prison is Rep--

Fact most tax payers are conservative
Fact most on welfare and making less than $15,000 are liberals
---do the math einstein
VOTE BY INCOME BUSH
KERRY NADER
TOTAL 2004 2000 2004 2004

Under $15,000 (8%) 36% n/a 63% 0%

$15-30,000 (15%) 42% n/a 57% 0%

$30-50,000 (22%) 49% n/a 50% 0%

$50-75,000 (23%) 56% n/a 43% 0%

$75-100,000 (14%) 55% n/a 45% 0%

$100-150,000 (11%) 57% n/a 42% 1%

$150-200,000 (4%) 58% n/a 42% *

$200,000 or More (3%) 63% n/a 35% 1%

Fact most personal injury attorneys are liberal
from liberal LA Times
WASHINGTON ? Back in March, when Sen. John F. Kerry met with the big-money trial attorneys who had been Sen. John Edwards' largest financial backers in the presidential primaries, the lawyers told the presumptive Democratic nominee that he had their "unflinching" support.

Fact most aid carriers and gays are liberal
Gays traditional vote nearly 90% Dem--you can go to any gay sight and they will confirm it.

Fact most business including small business are conservative
I just posted this report in another thread
Poll taken was 50% conservative-34% Moderate-16% liberal

Fact most farmers are conservative
again einstein look at map and see if you can figure it out--hint not too many farms in New York City-San Fran and La ;)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

---and I don't hate liberals at all-- I if like Eddie and have never met him--and Matt has always been a fav of mine and one of few who supports his opinion with fact and has changed mind at times on issues. Can't really say I hate anyone--I do get upset when people throw up opinion with no substance or logic.
any other questions oh master of cappers ;)
 
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Master Capper

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Sort of figured you were in a shady field such as insurance, but thats your business. Wow, you own a building and you have six whole renters, aren't you the tycoon.

I don't use some egotistical moniker like mastercapper to make peoplw think I can cap either--but I will spare you the embarrassment on capping issue--however will make note on one that applys since it deals with looking at politics objectly--search for election wagering thread. I wagered on both parties at significant + odds--and you????

Actually, I have not had a losing season in college sports for numerous years and wagered on the 2004 election on Bush early in the election. You don't need to spare me anything as other than rants about liberals, I have seen very little capping skills out of you.


I guess I can assume these are true
Most big businesses that deceive investors and lost millions for retirees are Conservative

Most Preachers who preach monogamy but that have sex with hookers in hotel rooms are Conservative

Most Life Insurance Companies that swindle old folks by deceiving them on the cash value of their Universal life policies are Republican contributers

The largest homosexual political group is a major contributer to the Republican Party

Fact, most radio talk show host whom commit felonies to obtain illegal narcotics are CONSERVATIVE

Fact most military vote conservative
"In 2000, Florida officials disqualified 1,527 military votes because they lacked postmarks. George W. Bush won Florida - and the presidency - by 537 votes.

The military traditionally votes Republican. In one recent informal survey of the armed forces and their family members, 72 percent of respondents said they favored Bush over Democrat John Kerry."


How are these facts? What is the source? No one is disputing that the top people in the MIL are traditionally Republican but in your own words blacks are liberal (which in itself is a stereotype) and the MIL has a large portion of blacks.


Fact most tax payers are conservative
Fact most on welfare and making less than $15,000 are liberals
---do the math einstein

And this changes quite alot if you use Clinton vs Dole! You cannot base your assumption on just one general election.

Trial Lawyer-Injury
No one disputed that they lean Dem, your the one whom has issues with them. What is the difference between a trial lawyer and an insurances salesman? Both have negative meanings attached to them.

Fact most incarerated are liberals
Blacks vote 90% dem--prison population is approaching 50% black so for this to not be true you would have to assume EVERYONE else in prison is Rep--

Again, another broad based assumption using stereotypes, for the record the vast majority of these people would or could not differentiate the difference between Conservatives and Liberals and more than likely this number would vary widely as to which apart of the country.


Fact most farmers are conservative
again einstein look at map and see if you can figure it out--hint not too many farms in New York City-San Fran and La

Again this variable is going to depend on the person put forth by each party, as we both know the DEMS have not put forth a solid person since Clinton that had populism charisma. The farmers are getting fisted by Bush and he would be vulnerable if someone had grass roots appeal. I would like to see this data for Clinton-Dole if possible.

Fact most business including small business are conservative
I just posted this report in another thread
Poll taken was 50% conservative-34% Moderate-16% liberal

I reviewed your link and I concede this issue but I would be willing to wager that these numbers could also be altered depending on the person running from each party.

Fact most aid carriers and gays are liberal
Gays traditional vote nearly 90% Dem--you can go to any gay sight and they will confirm it.

You failed to state that the largest gay political fund raising group The Log Cabin Republicans is a donor to the Republican party.


---and I don't hate liberals at all-- I if like Eddie and have never met him--and Matt has always been a fav of mine and one of few who supports his opinion with fact and has changed mind at times on issues. Can't really say I hate anyone--I do get upset when people throw up opinion with no substance or logic.
any other questions oh master of cappers


It's sad that if you truly don't have hate in your heart for others that oppose your viewpoint then your writings and attacks on others seems to not back up your love for fellow man. As can be seen by this thread that when someone disagrees with your stance then you will resort to name calling, which is pretty typical of Conservative folks. I have read previous threads where you have downgraded the black race, gay people, etc.. tell me what makes you a better person then these people or myself? In gods eyes are you a better person, is that how you view the world? Your opinion and thats all they are on how the country should function is just that, an opinion. Do others not have a right to their own opinions? Is your way solely the right way and everyone else is just a moron? This type of beliefs are exactly what will tank this country further than it has already fallen, ideas are born through discourse and disagreement until a middle ground is found that is a betterment of all the American people. I do believe that your a highly intelligent person that does post some interesting information that has on multiple times changed my viewpoint on subjects, but at this point I must lump you into the Charlemanson category of a name caller that cannot hold a civilized conversation unless it goes their way. Please in the future do not waste my time or yours by going into my thread and attacking and of course I will give you the same professional courtesy of not reading/responding in your threads.
 

djv

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So I guess all those low down dirty dogs living in the inner cities are liberals. Funny how on a % basses more of them end up fighting for there country for those low wages. So be careful you may have skipped a lot of low pay Conservatives using your numbers.
 

kosar

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djv said:
So I guess all those low down dirty dogs living in the inner cities are liberals. Funny how on a % basses more of them end up fighting for there country for those low wages. So be careful you may have skipped a lot of low pay Conservatives using your numbers.


I've always wondered how you can reconcile that. Poor people = Liberals. Poor people = disproportionate amount of military. Military people = conservative. A magic wand, maybe?
 
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