Carlos Quentin

Mags

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Mags - If you throw a punch in baseball you don't go to jail you get suspended.

I don't want to argue what happens in real life, I want to discuss baseball suspensions which are governed by these rules - http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2013/official_baseball_rules.pdf

Stop comparing the punishment of assault with a fight in baseball.

Hell Quentin charged the mound but he still gets awarded first base, his replacement has to run for him.

And Kemp charging the mound after getting hit is fine. If he goes out there and charges the mound without getting hit, his punishment should be worse than Quentin's in my opinion.

Some great quotes, and analysis for you Layinwood, from ESPN.com that was just posted:

The other big topic rattling around baseball Friday was the one that Dodgers manager Don Mattingly raised after the game Thursday: Should Quentin be allowed to play a game before Greinke returns? "I agree with Mattingly 100 percent," said one AL executive. "Quentin needs to miss as much time as Greinke." Well, that's not going to happen. Over the last eight seasons, eight hitters have been suspended after games in which they headed for the mound. The longest sentence handed to any of them was eight games -- to Nyjer Morgan in 2010. Coco Crisp got seven games in 2008, and Richie Sexson was suspended for six in 2008. Incidentally, there wasn't a single incident last season of any hitter charging the mound.

? But here's the difference between this incident and any of the previous eight: This one led to a serious injury, of a critical player, under circumstances that should never have been allowed to happen. So there were rumblings Friday that baseball was pondering a difficult question: How much did Greinke's injury, and prolonged absence, have to be factored into Quentin's suspension? "You have to take that into account, don't you?" wondered one long-time executive. "There has to be a consequence with something like this, or you run the risk of having more incidents. And you can't allow that precedent."


AND TO ADDRESS THAT GRIENKE DID IT ON PURPOSE:

And now another fascinating question: Was there any chance -- any -- that Greinke was throwing at Quentin on purpose -- on a full-count pitch, in a one-run game, to a hitter leading off the sixth inning? Just check the body language of the catcher, A.J. Ellis. If this had been premeditated, wouldn't his first move after the pitch have been to jump in front of Quentin to make sure he didn't charge the mound? Instead, Ellis just rose out of his crouch casually, looking curious but certainly not alarmed, about Quentin's impending reaction. "And not just him," said one NL exec. "Look at [plate ump] Sam Holbrook. Typically, you'll see at least some intuitive feel from the umpire and catcher to jump out and get in the way [if they think the hitter might be ready to run toward the mound]. But there was none -- because neither guy's intuition told him that there needed to be."

Interesting perspectives... everyone agrees it was unintentional. I still think it will be a longer suspension that people are thinking right now.

I'd love to see 60 games, but I'd settle for 30.
 

JOSHNAUDI

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That is an interesting take. So, getting hit makes charging the mound legitimate? Even if getting hit is unintentional (like every pundit says was obvious last night)? What if they guy throws it 5 feet behind you, but misses? I've seen guys charge the mound in that instance also.

All I'm saying is that the penalty should bear a relationship to the outcome - which seems fair.

If nobody got hurt, then 10 game suspension. A guy that loses 2 months, then 60 games. Lose a month, then 30 games.

You'd have a lot less shenanigans. Quentin wasn't provoked. It was an unprovoked attack by a meathead. He wasn't in danger - he wasn't doing self defense - he could walk to 1st base without anyone hurting him.

I just feel bad for Dodger fans, and of course, Grienke and his family. This should have never happened.

Stop it - Your argument was Kemp should just go charge the mound and take out pitchers. He can't do that and you know that.

The game was played this way, long before you and I were around and it will still be played this way in the years to come.

fin
 

gjn23

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sorry but a starting pitcher missing a month means he misses approx. 5 games

a position player missing a month means he misses approx. 25 games

mattingly is an idiot for his rationale
 

layinwood

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Mags, since 2008 when Greinke started playing against Carlos he's hit batters a total of 24 times. 3 of those are Carlos.

I don't know the numbers for how many hitters he's faced but I can tell you the % of time he faces a guy and then hits him is very SMALL. But if he does hit someone theres's a 12.5% chance it's Carlos. We're talking 1000s of batters, 24 of those 1000s hit and 3 out of those 24 are the same guy.
 

Mr. Poon

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Mags, since 2008 when Greinke started playing against Carlos he's hit batters a total of 24 times. 3 of those are Carlos.

I don't know the numbers for how many hitters he's faced but I can tell you the % of time he faces a guy and then hits him is very SMALL. But if he does hit someone theres's a 12.5% chance it's Carlos. We're talking 1000s of batters, 24 of those 1000s hit and 3 out of those 24 are the same guy.

a decent chunk of the other 21 were other White Sox.
 

canuckfan77

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Mags, since 2008 when Greinke started playing against Carlos he's hit batters a total of 24 times. 3 of those are Carlos.

I don't know the numbers for how many hitters he's faced but I can tell you the % of time he faces a guy and then hits him is very SMALL. But if he does hit someone theres's a 12.5% chance it's Carlos. We're talking 1000s of batters, 24 of those 1000s hit and 3 out of those 24 are the same guy.

That's what I was trying to get across earlier, well said :toast:
 

Old School

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Greinke is a cerebral, guy, it wouldn't shock me for him to plan to hit but wait until he had a count like that as a counter-argument. Not the first time he's done something like that.

And I'm not calling him a dirty player. He just does odd things, once threw and ephus pitch in a game. I'll always have a man crush on the guy, but knowing his past with Quentin, hard not to think there was some intent there.

LOL I've read about that pitch. I've always wanted to see it live. Isn't it around 50something MPH?



http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/a-brief-history-of-the-eephus-pitch/
 

Mags

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sorry but a starting pitcher missing a month means he misses approx. 5 games

a position player missing a month means he misses approx. 25 games

mattingly is an idiot for his rationale

That were fans miss the value of SP.... their value is as high as hitters, even if they "only" pitch every 5th day.... Looks at WAR sometime.

It may not seem logical to say a month of starting pitching is worth the same as an every day guy, but it is, and then some.

SP in today's game are gold - good ones - and very tough to come by. Heck, the Royals gave up one of the best propects in baseball (Wil Myers) to get James Shields this year - and Shields, while good, is not an "Ace".

Last year, the Yankees traded away a top 10 ML prospect in Montero to obtain a young pitcher named Pinerio (who got hurt right away).

A top starter is worth just as much as a top hitter, if not more.

Problem with SP, is that if you look at the start of the year, 50% of them end up on the DL at some point of the year.

But that is usually for a pitching injury.
 

Mags

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sorry but a starting pitcher missing a month means he misses approx. 5 games

a position player missing a month means he misses approx. 25 games

mattingly is an idiot for his rationale

Last Year, Grienke was worth 3.6 wins to his teams, above what an average ML pitcher was worth, over the entire year. Assuming the season is 6 months long, Grienke's value is 0.6 wins a month.

Quentin was worth 1.4 wins, over the entire year. Quentin was worth 0.23 wins a month.

The Dodgers losing Grienke for 30 days hurts them much more than the Padres losing Quentin for 30 days....
 

gjn23

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Last Year, Grienke was worth 3.6 wins to his teams, above what an average ML pitcher was worth, over the entire year. Assuming the season is 6 months long, Grienke's value is 0.6 wins a month.

Quentin was worth 1.4 wins, over the entire year. Quentin was worth 0.23 wins a month.

The Dodgers losing Grienke for 30 days hurts them much more than the Padres losing Quentin for 30 days....

the point was morons like mattingly calling for a suspension that matches grienke's injury are....morons.

if that's the case, i'm putting out my biggest dog shit pitcher, nailing my rivals best hitter as many times as needed for him the charge the mound and telling the world my dog shit pitcher is injured because of the brawl and out for the year......match that!
 

shawn555

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the point was morons like mattingly calling for a suspension that matches grienke's injury are....morons.

if that's the case, i'm putting out my biggest dog shit pitcher, nailing my rivals best hitter as many times as needed for him the charge the mound and telling the world my dog shit pitcher is injured because of the brawl and out for the year......match that!

What do you want Mattingly to say?

He is the coach of Greinke of course he is going to defend his player and say that Quentin should receive an unreasonable suspension.
 

Cie

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The aggressor was Quentin. He deserved a month+ imo since his poor decision to charge ZG changes the complexion of the division, but mainly because it hurts my LA to win the pennant wager.

Accidental bean balls are a part of the game. Throwing at a guy -- whether he showed you up or as retaliation of a prior bean ball -- is irresponsible and should be punished severely by MLB.

8 games is a step in the right direction. Mound charging, and the subsequent dugout/ bullpen clearing, needs to be outlawed.
 

Mr. Poon

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What did Johhny Cueto get for putting Jason Larue into retirement? Baseball suspensions have always been a joke.
 

BleedDodgerBlue

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he dropped his appeal and will start serving immediately so is ineligible to play mon - wed at chavez ravine.

what a bitch this guy is. now somebody else on the padres has to pay the price for his actions.

assclown
 
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