Case anyone missed this...........
- Thread starter hammer1
- Start date
Summary of the article:
guy joins army and is a commissioned officer
guy opts to refuse his orders to iraq
guy does "research" and concludes that the war is illegal.
guy goes to press to make himself out to be a martyr for all Americans.
WATADA: You know, what I'm doing is for the soldiers. I'm trying to end something that is criminal, something that should not have been started in the first place and something that is making America less safe ? and that is the Iraq war. By just going there and being willing to participate, and doing my job, or whatever I'm told to do ? which actually exacerbates the situation and makes it worse ? I would not be serving the best interest of this country, nor the soldiers that I'm serving with. What I'm trying to do is end something, as I said, that's illegal, and immoral, so that all the soldiers can come home and this tragedy can come to an end.
It seems like people and critics make this distinction between an order to deploy and any other order, as if the order to deploy is just something that's beyond any other order. Orders have to be determined on whether they're legal or not. And if the order to deploy to a war that is unlawful, if that is given, then that order itself is unlawful.
guy joins army and is a commissioned officer
guy opts to refuse his orders to iraq
guy does "research" and concludes that the war is illegal.
guy goes to press to make himself out to be a martyr for all Americans.
WATADA: You know, what I'm doing is for the soldiers. I'm trying to end something that is criminal, something that should not have been started in the first place and something that is making America less safe ? and that is the Iraq war. By just going there and being willing to participate, and doing my job, or whatever I'm told to do ? which actually exacerbates the situation and makes it worse ? I would not be serving the best interest of this country, nor the soldiers that I'm serving with. What I'm trying to do is end something, as I said, that's illegal, and immoral, so that all the soldiers can come home and this tragedy can come to an end.
It seems like people and critics make this distinction between an order to deploy and any other order, as if the order to deploy is just something that's beyond any other order. Orders have to be determined on whether they're legal or not. And if the order to deploy to a war that is unlawful, if that is given, then that order itself is unlawful.
Lt. Watada sounds like Rumsfeld. I'm surprised he didn't start talking about known uknowns.
awww man... don't bring up the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns.
It's a legitimate statement he made that is used quite often. I think there was a thread on it around here a long time ago when it happened. But that instance is just further proof that the public will gobble up what the media says and run with it.
It's a legitimate statement he made that is used quite often. I think there was a thread on it around here a long time ago when it happened. But that instance is just further proof that the public will gobble up what the media says and run with it.
correct. what he said makes sense though. The media took it and writes::; rummy is dumb, look what he said:::
and of course the public bites on it hook line and sinker without taking the time to digest the quote.
and of course the public bites on it hook line and sinker without taking the time to digest the quote.
Not enough was written about Rummy being dumb. Look at how he handled the occupation? Does anybody want to make the case that he is smart? If he is smart then he must be the crookedest SOB to ever live.
smurph, you may not have said rummy is dumb... but the bloggers of america sure have and they tore it up with that quote. in fact, i just saw an old daily show clip that john stewart tries to talk about how it doesnt make sense.
Honestly, I hear that quote, or see it, and I don't find what is so funny. seriously.
so, because lil johnny stewart says it, the public follows suit.
It's just disappointing to me how blindly people listen and follow the media.
As you know, there are known knowns. There are things you know I know. You also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, you know there are some things I do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones you don't know I don't know. You'll probably figure those out pretty quickly...
1. Unknown unknowns: a five year old child does not know that he does not know calculus. For him or her, calculus is an `unknown unknown'.
2. Known unknowns: an older child know he that he does not know calculus. For him or her, calculus is a `known unknown'.
3. Unknown knowns: a high school student starts to study calculus. He or she does not yet understand calculus. For him or her, it is an `unknown known'. (You will note that the focus of the first `unknown' shifts here from lack of knowledge of the general to lack of knowledge of the specific.)
4. Known knowns: after learning calculus, it becomes a `known known': it is both known to exist and understood.
Honestly, I hear that quote, or see it, and I don't find what is so funny. seriously.
so, because lil johnny stewart says it, the public follows suit.
It's just disappointing to me how blindly people listen and follow the media.
As you know, there are known knowns. There are things you know I know. You also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, you know there are some things I do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones you don't know I don't know. You'll probably figure those out pretty quickly...
1. Unknown unknowns: a five year old child does not know that he does not know calculus. For him or her, calculus is an `unknown unknown'.
2. Known unknowns: an older child know he that he does not know calculus. For him or her, calculus is a `known unknown'.
3. Unknown knowns: a high school student starts to study calculus. He or she does not yet understand calculus. For him or her, it is an `unknown known'. (You will note that the focus of the first `unknown' shifts here from lack of knowledge of the general to lack of knowledge of the specific.)
4. Known knowns: after learning calculus, it becomes a `known known': it is both known to exist and understood.
ohhh..now i see the kinder,gentler, bi-partisan stevie......
sorry for doubting your veracity...:sadwave:
That's some pretty advanced logic, there. Yes, people do tend to be sheep and blindly follow things they hear that fall in line with whatever partisan angle they already subscribe to.
However smart Rummy is or however accurate his nutty quotes were, he was definitely a terrible military strategist and planner.
However smart Rummy is or however accurate his nutty quotes were, he was definitely a terrible military strategist and planner.
Dumb--compared to who? They defeated Taliban and Saddam's army in I believe 48 days total for both combined--and women and children fought someone to standoff for 50 days.---
:SIB
:SIB
Yeah, you're right. The Clinton military force performed pretty damn well. And then they were mismanaged into the morass we are in now by the bumbling idiots currently in charge. Hard to understand with all that combat experience at the top. After all, Rummy was a highly decorated flight instructor.
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I beg you to stop with this stuff.
Beg you!
The Taliban is now again currently running Afghanistan(with opium production at an all-time high), and Iraq? Iraq?
Are you f*cking kidding me?
Waco and Elian Gonzales(which you didn't mention, but i'm sure it's on your mind) were pathetic events and poorly conceived. No question.
I can see that and concede that.
But you really see nothing but admirable things about the results in Afghanistan and Iraq? You fawn over the utter failure.
I don't get it, I guess.
You remind me of this guy Jeff Stone that played for the phillies about 15 years ago. He had terrific speed and a lot of athletic gifts but one time the Phils had an exibition game in Mexico and Jeff and his roomate were in their rooms and it didn't have a TV. His roomate bought one and they used it that night. When they were leaving to get back to the states the roomate asked Jeff if he wanted the TV because he didn't want to have to lug it around the airport. Jeff said no way because it only got spanish channels. True story.
