exactly... in a capitalist society... some people win and some people lose.
but, I feel we need to socialize healthcare...
How come some poor criminal can be afforded legal counsel, but can't be afforded healthcare..
unless he is in prison... :mj07:
Chinese products ?
- Thread starter vinnie
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exactly... in a capitalist society... some people win and some people lose.
but, I feel we need to socialize healthcare...
How come some poor criminal can be afforded legal counsel, but can't be afforded healthcare..
unless he is in prison... :mj07:
I believe this whole idea would hurt more than it would help. Dont ask why because I don't know.
I know one employer that has done this for years.. .where salaries are capped and scaled. The US government and its federal employees.
Go work in a setting with GS workers for about 6 months. Then come back and tell us all how great an idea it is after you see the individual initiative and creativity, devotion to work, and the drive to keep doing better when someone knows that no matter what - they will not get a pay raise until they have spent x amount of time in their current role, and then to get promoted, they just have to be a smidgen better than the idiot next to them.
GS workers... not to offend all of you, but a large majority of the workforce has had the above attitude for years... thank god they are bringing the new NSPS system in to get rid of this mentality.
No Marine, you are missing the point. Everybody can still advance and get promotions. The only thing is that the guys getting Millions a year will be capped. That has nothing to do with the guy on the loading dock who wants to be promoted to group leader or supervisor.
What did the CEO of Exxon do to deserve the money he makes? Does he deserve so much more that the guys in field? I am talking thousands of times more in salary alone. Not counting his stocks and perks. Perks the little guy can't get because they go to some guy who could never spend them in 20 lifetimes.
Every once in a while the system has to be adjusted. We do it with taxes. Bush and Reagan and Kennedy lowers the tax rate at the highest levels. That is an adjustment. This is the same type of thing. Salaries of these top guys are way out of control and need to be kicked back down.
I still go by the free market theory - companies must feel these guys are worth it if they are willing to pay them these amounts. There is a lot of competition for the top jobs - and companies pay a lot for the top guys.
How are the CEO's any different than any other job? How about the guy who invests his money and gets lucky on a few stocks? Should his investments be capped?
How about pro athletes? (I know everyone thinks these should be capped and in some sports they are). Why should any pro athelete make more than $1 Million per year? Why? Because someone is willing to pay them more than that.
The one industry people forget about is entertainers. Should Bono make the kinda of money he does? What about Justin Timberlake? What about actors?
The beauty of a free market economy is that you are typically worth EXACTLY what someone is willing to pay you. I don't begrude anyone making more money than me. Typically they are have a more unique skill or something that sets them apart.
But knowing that the sky is the limit in terms of income - anyone has the opportunity to make as much money as they possibly can - is what makes this country of ours so great!
And don't get me started on taxes! The stat that knocks me on my a** every time is that the top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the taxes in this country! Somehow that doesn't feel right. I'll bet they don't make 40% of the total income of the country!
How about a flat tax rate (say 20%). No exemptions, no deductions. Everyone pays 20% of their income - no exceptions. The rich will still pay a higher total dollar amount - but still 20% of their income. Same for the poor.
Now that would be fair. It will never happen though.
You make it sound like to become a CEO you have to put your name in a hat and they draw it out, or just pick the 7th guy to walk across the street on tuesday or something.
CEOs and top execs make a lot of money because they have a lot of responsibility, and have spent a long time working to get where they are.
You think CEO's put their applicaion in and tell the company they expect to make X million dollars in salary.
The companies are making offers to the CEO folks.. because most of them are smart, and are going to be the face of the company, and have stresses placed on them that the guy at the loading dock can never quite understand.
Don't punish someone because they are excelling in what they do.
Just one Example:
CEO's are paid a lot more than the guy in the field because they are selling their life to the company for whatever number of years they work there. CEO's don't punch out at the end of their 8 hour shift and go home and kiss suzy on the cheek. they are constantly moving and in action. family life goes out the window because of work factors.
find me someone who will do that for less pay.
This got me thinking, Mags, so I used "the google" to find out the numbers. Here is the latest data, from 2005..maybe you can find newer data somewhere, but I'm too lazy to look any harder...
The latest release of Internal Revenue Service data on individual income taxes comes from calendar year 2005, a year in which the economy remained healthy and continued to grow, as well as a year with higher-than-average price inflation.
This year's numbers show that both the income share earned by the top 1 percent and the tax share paid by the top 1 percent have reached all-time highs. In 2005, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 39.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 21.2 percent of adjusted gross income, both of which are significantly higher than 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of AGI and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.
And to the gist of the threads beginnings....My sister and brother-in-law are a few months into trying this very thing--to not buy anything produced in China for a year. They have found it to be a bit more difficult than just running to the store and buying something, but so far, they say that its not been too hard to do.
They did tell me that one day they picked up some pork at the grocery store and it said "produce of China" right on the package :scared
Take that sentence above and now repeat it like this:
What did the line supervisor do to deserve the money he makes? Does he deserve it so much more than the guys turning the wrenches on the line?
Not everyone performs the same. Amazingly, all people are not equal in the workplace.
Marine, you make it sound like these guys are doing us a favor! They do it because they love it. And I ain't saying they can't make money. They can still make millions and so much more than the guy on the dock. But they are not worth the thousands of times more than some of them are getting.
A little bit on executive compensation....
Executive Compensation
American CEOs earned 411 times as much as average workers in 2005, up from 107 times in 1990. (United for a Fair Economy, Executive Excess 2006, based on Business Week and the Wall Street Journal).
Top executives in the U.S. now make about twice the pay of their counterparts in France, Germany and the U.K., and about four times that of Japanese and Korean corporate chieftains. (Lucian Bebchuk, testimony before the House Financial Services Committee, Mar 8, 2007.)
Executive Compensation
American CEOs earned 411 times as much as average workers in 2005, up from 107 times in 1990. (United for a Fair Economy, Executive Excess 2006, based on Business Week and the Wall Street Journal).
Top executives in the U.S. now make about twice the pay of their counterparts in France, Germany and the U.K., and about four times that of Japanese and Korean corporate chieftains. (Lucian Bebchuk, testimony before the House Financial Services Committee, Mar 8, 2007.)
I don't see many athletes quitting because they feel they lost their desire to play because of a salary cap. On the contrary I see the really greats take PAY CUTS to make room under the cap.
Stevie... those guys taking the cuts to make room under the cap and getting that money back in later years. all they are doing is restucturing their contract to take less the current year and tacking in on the next year.
Yea, a cut from $15 Million to $10 Million.
You are proposing that every worker in the US being limited to $1 Million in income (it wouldn't be fair to only impose that on CEO's).
Keep in mind that CEO's are at the top of their profession - the best of the best. Not unlike an AROD or someone like that. And not all CEO's make big bucks. Only the ones at the largest companies - kinda like All Star sports players.
And, for the record, no I am not a CEO - or even close. I have a small business I own with no employees other than myself.
But I don't begrude others. Don't be a hater - it will just eat you up inside over the long run.
What would happen if we artifically capped everyone's income in the US to $1 M or less?
If we did that, the stock market would crash (nobody would be allowed to make more than $1 M in investments).
I would think our economy would also - as a lot of businesses could possibly shut down.
Just not a good plan. Let's keep the free market economy we have now.
I never said to cap it at a million. I said to cap it at so many times the average employees pay. Pay the employees better and the top dogs get more also. So the better they produce the more they get. The American way.
If the average CEO is getting 400 times the average workers pay and up from 200 only a few years ago, you can honestly tell me there is nothing wrong with the system?
If the average CEO is getting 400 times the average workers pay and up from 200 only a few years ago, you can honestly tell me there is nothing wrong with the system?
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Not with your 20% suggested cap.
"the google" -- Hilarious, redsfann! I love when people say stuff like that. Good times. I wonder what terms I use that sound as ludicrous in other industries. I guess that's how I sound when I try to talk to a mechanic. :shrug:
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I would argue that a great CEO is harder to find than 400 "average" workers.
Interesting that someone is trying to do this for a year. I think it's admirable.
Back to my first response, what I think is dumb is that the email leads the sheep to believe that not buying Chinese goods for a month would do anything at all. The lemmings jump all over shit like this.
How did the 1-2 day "no gas from Exxon" work out? I think it's worked like a charm. Their earnings have been in the crapper since...
Can't take credit for that one, Dawg. Saw it in a thread over in the political forum and stored it in the 'ol memory bank for future reference.
Yeah, I also think its cool that the sis and bro-in-law are doing this. They are 25 and 27, fresh off earning their PhD's last year, no children or mortgage and still living like broke college students--even though he makes great $$ in the computer field...
i would also put cap limits on mailmen, map makers,& forum owners & moderators....they are all grossly over compensated imo...
Not the foreclosures again--
I'll end that with same way it ended in political forum--
For the 95% of mortages that haven't forclosed which weren't bought for speculation or more than person could afford--they came out like bandits--all were able to lower their interest rates saving them a bundle.
Mortgage rates 2000
http://www.hsh.com/natmo2000.html
mortgage rates 2008
http://www.hsh.com/natmo2008.html
Duh--hello
So we have 95% of the prudent population :00hour
--and the others :violin:
The more things change the more they stay the same.
You really are a piece of work.
AR, not sure what you mean? You compare a mailman to a CEO making an average of 400 times the average salary of his employees in the same boat. Don't forget we are talking an average. That means that some, if not most are making more than 400 times the average employee paycheck. Maybe you or someone else can explain to me how that doesn't hurt the overall economy.
Oh Dogs, why did the Banks have to bailed out if they are doing such a bang up job. You truly amaze me.
